The clock struck midnight with no deal for Santana, and rightly so. Let's start off day two's roundup with a Johan update:
- Peter Abraham - Joe Girardi spoke to the press today and said the Yanks would NOT use a 6-man rotation this season,
presumably Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy and Mussina. I think this is a good way to start the season, especially with the jump in workload for Hughes and Joba (Kennedy should be fine to go 200 innings this season) [Thanks for the catch, Mike. My eyes were playing tricks on me.]. Abraham says Girardi has also tasted the Farnsworth-flavored Kool Aid, and says he's comfortable with him as the 8th-inning guy. [Dec. 4, 6:43 p.m.]
- Peter Gammons - Gammons is reporting that the Tigers have landed Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for 6 players including Maybin and Miller, their two best chips. Think maybe the Twins should think about getting a righty back for Santana now that they're going to face this lineup 19 times a year? Granderson, Polanco, Sheffield, Cabrera, Ordonez, Renteria, Ivan Rodriguez, Inge. [Dec. 4, 6:35 p.m.]
- Kat O'Brien - The Viz wants 3/4 years and upwards of $19M, just like Scott Linebrink. Absolutely insane. The Yanks are going to have to trade for a cheap bullpen arm or find answers internally. Also, the Wanger would like an extension, but the Yanks seem to have their hands full at the moment, so he's going to have to wait. Personally, I wouldn't be asking for an extension when the last thing in the minds of Yankee management/owners/fans is Wang sh*tting the bed twice in the ALDS. [Dec. 4, 5:00 p.m.]
- NJ Star Ledger (MLBTR) - The Yanks are out. A source tells the Star Ledger Hank has closed the door on Santana and the Yanks are moving on, possibly with a focus on the bullpen. Good news, if accurate. [Dec. 4, 4:55 p.m.]
- Peter Abraham - The Sox are still in the lead, probably with a deal built around Lester. Peter Abraham says the Yanks are standing firm and won't be improving upon their offer. Nor should they. He also mentions the Dodgers and Angels as possible last-minute trade partners for the Twins. [Dec. 4, 2:49 p.m.]
- Peter Abraham - The deal is probably going to be Lester, Crisp, Justin Masterson, Jed Lowrie for Santana. That's a b-level pitching prospect, an reasonably expensive center fielder who can't hit, a pitching prospect who can't strike anyone out and a halfway decent shortstop prospect. The Yanks are apparently moving on to Dan Haren and completely insane GM #2, Billy Beane. [Dec. 4, 10:00 a.m.]
- Washington Post - It looks like the asking price for Erik Bedard is going to be just about as high as it was for Johan Santana. I'd love to see him in pinstripes, but I doubt it's going to happen. The Orioles don't want to trade him to a division rival, and I really don't think Phil Hughes is going to be put back on the table. It's a shame, Bedard was the best pitcher in the majors before the injury bug struck in 2007. [Dec. 4, 4:56 a.m.]
- Jayson Stark - ESPN ties it all together. It looks like Lester is in the deal, and it also looks like the Yankees spent all night telling the Twins they were out of their minds. Sources are quoted as saying the Yanks were debating whether to go through with the deal even if the Twins said yes. I think Brian Cashman is sleeping sound right now, he wants to stay the course, as do I. [Dec. 4, 3:54 a.m.]
- MLBTR - Boston appears to be in the lead for Santana as night turns to late-night. Boston and Minnesota have swapped
spit medical records. It looks like the deal will revolve around Lester, which is a complete joke. If this deal gets done the Twins either have a vendetta against the Yanks or a horrible scouting staff. The Yankee offers have trumped Boston's offers every step of the way, and the demands they've made on the Yanks have been ridiculous, to say the least. If he goes to Boston, so be it. Better to let him walk than to mortgage the future. [Dec. 4, 3:31 a.m.]
- Jon Heyman - The Yanks said the third player in the Hughes/Melky deal could not be Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson or Jose Tabata. The Twins response? They asked for a package of Hughes, Melky, Horne AND Jackson. It looks like the Twins are back in talks with the Red Sox about a deal built around Jon Lester. Good for them, it's time for the Yanks to walk away. [Dec. 4, 1:47 a.m.]
I have to think that at this point the Twins just don't want to do business with the Yankees.
Jon Lester is by far the WORST of the 5 big pitching prospects that the Yankees and Red Sox have (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Bucholz are the other 4).
Let's just look at the stats, shall we...All stats are from the minors, since none of these guys have that much major league experience, so minor league number make for better comparisons
Lester: 483.2 IP, 3.33 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, 7.99 hits/9IP, .56 HRs/9IP, 3.78 BBs/9IP, 8.31 Ks/9IP
Phil Hughes: 275 IP, 2.03 ERA, .86 WHIP, 5.56 hits/9IP, .20 HRs/9IP, 2.16 BBs/9IP, 10.18 Ks/9IP
Joba Chamberlain: 88.1 IP, 2.45 ERA, 1.01 WHIP, 6.33 hits/9IP, .41 HRs/9IP, 2.76 BBs/9IP, 13.79 Ks/9IP
Ian Kennedy: 149 IP, 1.87 ERA, .97 WHIP, 5.62 hits/9IP, .36 HRs/9IP, 3.14 BBs/9IP, 9.97 Ks/9IP
Clay Buchholz: 285.2 IP, 2.46 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 6.60 hits/9IP, .66 HRs/9IP, 2.43 BBs/9IP, 11.23 Ks/9IP
and just for the fuck of it, I decided to look up Tyler Clippard's numbers:
Clippard: 609.1 IP, 3.52 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 7.91 hits/9IP, .80 HRs/9IP, 2.56 BBs/9IP, 9.46 Ks/9IP
you could make a very strong argument that Clippard has been a better pitcher than Lester in their minor league careers...and now Lester is supposed to be the centerpiece in a deal for the BEST pitcher in baseball? C'mon...
Jack,
The same thing happened with the Gagne trade, if you recall. The Rangers demanded Joba, Melky or Hughes, then settled for garbage from the Red Sox. I think there's a general dislike out there toward the Yankees from several teams. Maybe the Twins don't like them because the Yanks beat them like a rented mule every time they get one of their pitiful teams into the playoffs.
Tom, you hit the nail on the head. I'm going to have more on this later.
I always thought the Twins had strong scouting. If they do they're not showing it. The package the Yanks offered trumps all the other offers by far. At this point it looks like they are going to take what they can get from Boston.
It makes me wonder whether Santana nixed the deal w/ the Yanks and demanded to go to Boston. He probably thinks he has a better chance of winning w/ the the sox.
I think we probably would've heard whispers of that, at least. More likely, the Twins just don't want to deal with the Yanks, which is fine. Just stay out of it now.