I talked a bit a few weeks back about
what I look for in particular players when the draft rolls around (an uncanny skill or a tremendous physical advantage). Today I'd like to touch on what I want the Sixers to get out of this draft, and why.
Option number one, for me, is for the Sixers to find some way to get up to the #2 pick and draft Derrick Williams. Start with Jrue and Williams, then fill in the pieces over the next several years. That's extremely unlikely, though, so let's focus on more realistic scenarios.
1A would be coming out of this draft with Bismack Biyombo. I think Biyombo is going to be a dominant defender/rebounder in the NBA, capable of shutting down opposing bigs, stifling the pick-and-roll game and protecting the rim from the weakside at an elite level. Add a guy with those skills to the current roster and you're talking about a top defensive team. There's risk involved with Biyombo, but I think he's definitely worth it. If he falls to 16 I'll be ecstatic. If they need to trade up to get him, do it. For my money, he's the only guy in this draft who fits the #1 hole in the Sixers current roster. He's the only guy who you can add to the roster and provide an immediate improvement without having to figure out how he fits, where his minutes are going to come from and how he's going to make them better. They have a gaping hole Biyombo fits perfectly.
If Williams and Biyombo prove beyond the Sixers reach (and Williams almost certainly is), then I'm pretty much forgetting team need and BPA and I'm looking for a specific type of player. Notably, I'm looking for a guy who could be a lockdown defender on the wing. The goal here is to get a guy who can fill in at the three when Iguodala is on the bench and provide some semblance of the defense Iguodala plays. This guy would also provide insurance should Iguodala be traded. Currently, I don't think the Sixers have a player capable of stepping in at the three if they trade Iguodala. I think they should get that guy, if they can, and have him in their back pocket in case they ever need to cross that bridge.
A few more reasons why I prefer a wing defender with the #16 pick (should Biyombo and Williams be out of reach)
- All the other big men in this draft, with the possible exception of Jonas Valanciunas, seem some combination of undersized, underwhelming or soft. If there was a legit defensive big man projected to go somewhere in the mid-teens, I'd probably feel differently, but the names I'm seeing don't fit the bill for me. Mostly, they seem like guys who might be a moderate improvement over the stiffs the Sixers currently have in the middle, and I'd rather not waste another guaranteed contract on a player like that.
- If you can't defend the wing in the Eastern Conference, I think you're lost. The Sixers are really lacking in this department beyond Iguodala. Think back to last season, how many times did Iguodala stone a stud SF for the other team only to see the guy get hot when AI9 went to the bench and some combination of Nocioni and Turner came in to "guard" him. I don't want to see that happen anymore. I want a guy who can allow the Sixers second unit to keep the pressure up on the perimeter defensively. Preferably, this guy will be long and quick, with the ability to guard any perimeter position.
- I think beyond Biyombo, no one in this draft is really a good fit for the big holes this team has. I don't see anyone who's going to step in at the two and score 20 efficient points. I don't see anyone who's going to grow into an above average starting center who can anchor the defense. If you aren't going to fill either of those holes with a home run, I think you need to look to fill another hole, one which you don't need to hit a home run to upgrade your team. In this case, it's defense off the bench. The Sixers have a potent second unit (if Thad comes back), what they lack is a guy among the group who they can make things hard for the opposing team on the defensive end.
A couple of guys who I think could fit the bill:
- Chris Singleton - Great length and he comes in with the reputation of being a lockdown defender. Will probably be able to give you something on the offensive end as well. I think he projects as a starter and a good fit for the Sixers, unfortunately, I doubt he'll be on the board. I'd consider trading up to get him, depending on the price, obviously.
- Marshon Brooks - I think Brooks has the physical tools to be a very, very good perimeter defender. I'm not sure if he'll get there, but a 7'1" wingspan and very good speed/quickness, that'd be tough for me to pass up if Singleton/Biyombo were off the board at #16. If he was a better shooter, the Sixers would probably have no shot at #16, but he's got an offensive game. I think he could be a two-way weapon off the bench in the role Lou Williams currently occupies, and that would be a win for me at #16 in this draft.
- Tyler Honeycutt - Probably a reach at #16, but I think he's a good fit on the wing for the Sixers. A defensive upgrade for the bench, and a guy who can play without the ball, but with the skills to make plays for others. You'd be taking the risk that his deep shooting will be an asset, but I think he could be a solid defender at the position. Again, only if the guys above are off the board.
When it comes right down to it, I'm not expecting a whole lot out of this draft. I'll be thrilled beyond belief if Williams or Biyombo is a Sixer on the 24th, but I'm expecting the Sixers to take an unimpressive "big."
Unless the Sixers make some kind of trade beforehand, I'm not too keen on them selecting another wing player. Of all the players projected to be there, I guess I'd take Faried if Biyombo is gone already even though he's a little small, and just hope he can continue his great rebounding. Of course my dream is still to get Valanciunas on the Sixers somehow, even if it means trading up. I think he's got the tools to be really, really good in a few years, and if we can get him I'll be celebrating like crazy.
I want Vucevic from USC. A total gamble at #16 but he has size and youth. He probably nerds another year of school but he put up solid numbers as a junior. Any big that falls to the Sixers is going to require patience.
I'm with you. Vucevic is a virtual 7-footer, 17/10 averages, and shot 75% from the foul line (incredible for a college center). That's a big man with skills.
Every year someone falls out of the lottery and i really hope that one of the lottery bigs is available at #16. Kanter is unlikely to fall that low but Biyombo (no offensive game whatsoever) and Valanciunas (buyout issues) might. I would definitely try to move up for one of the those three guys as well. If none of that happens which is very likely my top choices would be:
- Motiejunas - a gamble, but at #16 it's a very little risk/high reward pick
- Thompson - BPA, will be a solid contributor off the bench or possibly as a starter, which is more than i can say about the rest of the names being tossed around at #16
- Harris - He looks to me like a nice glue guy long term and he can fit in any kind of team. He will have a role on a good team in the NBA one day.
Yeah, you might guess that i am extremely low on this draft and i see only 6-7 players that might become something and it's unlikely any of them will be available at #16.
I'm like you, when I'm in the mid first round I look for one elite level NBA skill, or extreme physical advantages, so how come Faried isn't on your list? I hate when people compare him to Reggie Evans, he's three times the athlete Reggie is and isnt just a great rebounder, with his length he's also a very good shot blocker .
Because he will be a complete zero on offense and will be eaten alive on defense by bigger players (rebounding and shot blocking are only a small part of what defense is all about). And yeah he has the game of defensive oriented center with zero offense yet has the size of a SG. He is going to have a career in the NBA, but is by no means a top7 player on any legitimate team...
I don't think he'll be a zero on offense, hes an underrated finisher around the basket ad plays above the rim when given the opportunity. His offensive rebounding alone gives him value on that end. I'm not really concerned with his height, it's more about standing reach and wingspan nowadays, and his measurements in those categories are inpressive. He's probably third or fourth on my list of targets, but I'd take him over Tyler Honeycutt any day of the week.
I've gone back and forth on Faried. I think he'd be a decent rotational guy, and I think he'll be able to rebound at this level, but he's too undersized to play the five w/ Thad at the four, and I don't see him as a long-term replacement for Brand. I'd rather have a wing defender off the bench.
There is a guy in the 2nd round, Malcom Thomas who has a chance to have a similar career to Faried, in my opinion. I watched a lot of him because he was K.Leonard's teammate this year. I hope he is on the sixers radar at #50.
I like him, he's a really good athlete and good rebounder ad shot blocker, but he doesn't have great strength and just doesnt have the motor Faried does, although Thomas' is good.
My goals for the draft;
1] finding a center that can play 24 mpg. at least and either defend the paint or spread the floor and rebound. Trading our pick and Spieghts for a young big [Mozgov, R.Lopez,Serafin,L.Sanders] or having Bismack slide to us would fit the defensive issue and Vecucic may fit the offensive, rebounding type of player.
2] Finding a p.f. that can replace Elton and give similar production to what Elton gave last year. Markief Morris can be that guy, in my opinion, and may play some center next to Thad when they go small.
3] a high upside scorer; Montiejunis, M. Brooks and J. Selby [Monte lite?] may work here, and if this allows Iggy to be kept here I am all for it.
4] a complimentary player to either Iggy and Jrue or Turner and Jrue who is a major upgrade on Meeks. I think Klay Thompson could be that guy.
5] a wing defender; Brian, I think our front office has Turner pegged as Iggy's replacement and even though I don't agree with their thinking I feel a backup defensive role player can be found in the 2nd round [D.Liggins, Malcohm Thomas], through undrafted free agents, or a minimum salary guy.
I'm guessing you'd be happy with one out of the five options. Is that list in order of your preference?
Yes and if we get one of these I would be happy. I wonder what the teams preference is. C.Witte has been quoted as saying need may trump b.p.a. because of the closeness in talent level.
I don't think it would take our first AND Speights to get Sanders, who I love btw. I think Speights and our second could get it done, although Speights isnt a Skiles type guy. He would be our center of the future IMO. Some question if he has the girth to play the 5 full time but his height and freakish length and leaping ability ease those concerns to me.
Speights may be a good fit in Pheonix with Nash getting him the ball and playing with and behind a guy like Gortat. A swap of Spieghts and #16 for Lopez and G.Lawal seems equal value to me, but I tend to undervalue our players compared to most.
Spieghts may not have value to most teams when on a team needing center help he couldn't get minutes. If they can add to their core by moving no players in their core that is best case to me.
I wouldn't give up 16 for Lopez. He is not a starting caliber center in this league. Maybe a straight up swap of Lopez and Speights but definitely not 16. I'd much rather get Kwame Brown for nothing than give up an asset of Lopsz. Brown actually was pretty good for Charlotte this year and while he obviously hasn't lived up to top pick expectations, he does defend the post and rebound very well.
If you look at R. Lopez's stats, he is a terrible rebounder. His career dreb% is 14.8%, which worse than Thad last year. For reference, Haws was 23%.
Robin Lopez grabs less than 5 defensive boards per 36 minutes on the floor. That is a bit better than his brother, but well below the 7 dboards/36 that Hawes gives you. I use Hawes as a comparison, since he is not a great defnsive rebounder.
R. Lopez is an active defender and nice shot blocker, but I don'rt see him as a quality starting center.
I would hope he and Hawes combined could be serviceable for 40 minutes a night. The rest of the time they go small.
Yeah, that's a pipe dream, imo. Lopez may give you serviceable minutes off the bench if you can pair him with a legit rebounder at the four, Hawes does nothing serviceable.
Is there somebody in the league you think Spieghts and #16 could get us? A lateral swap of Spieghts for somebody elses disappointment?
#16 could get you Jason Thompson- who is a solid defensive rebounder (dReb% 20.7, dreb/36 6.4) But I'm not really interested in that move.
I've said it before but I would really like to get Chris Andersen. He's very productive and you wouldn't need to give up any draft pick to get him.
I wish Lou got him, and Evan could slide into Lou's role with Iggy staying. Then draft Morris and you may get to 50 wins. One can dream.
I could totally see Denver wanting to do a Lou for Andersen deal if they resign Nene and let Smith walk. And it would take me less than a second to agree.
Speights really has zero value, imo.
I thought Denver might be in rebuild mode but if Nene resigns they probably try a quick turnaround. If they draft Faried and trade for Spieghts could that tandem be effective at the p.f. spot?
NBA scouts don't care what your opinion is, imo
you're right, imo.
his tweets have value
i want Biyombo or Singleton, if not then they should just close there eyes and hope for the best
*their
I want Biyombo AND Singleton. But have to get at least one.
Hard to say. With Iggy? Without Iggy? The needs may shift if he is moved.
If we could come out of this draft without Speights, with a player who could potentially/eventually play Elton's spot(BB/MM), with an add'l center. I'd be happy.
I have a feeling JJohnson could immediately play a role in the league. I'd try to use Speights and our 2nd to move up and get him.
When in doubt, go with precedence. The Williams' dynasty has produced 66 NBA players; from Art to Walt, Buck to Duck, Fly to Sly, Gus to Ray, Hot Rod to Jawad, and - for Philly flavor - Bernie (DeMatha HS, LaSalle) to Hank (Norristown HS, Jacksonville) to Earl (Woodrow Wilson HS, Winston-Salem) to Alvin (Germantown Academy, Villanova) to Sixers Sam, Jayson, Scott, Monty and Louis. And can't forget sharpshooters Ron, Freeman or Reggie. What a castle!
Lopez really doesn't do it for me. He's a terrible defensive rebounder.
I hope Collins could get some semblance of the Lopez I watched in college. He did get 8 pts, 5 reb. and a block in 20 mpg. on a 54 win team two seasons ago. He does clog the middle defensively and plays physically.
There are better options but I don't know if they are gettable. The Gortat boat has saled.
Brian, this would be a big gamble but if Iggy got you a trade exemption and future #1 from Cleveland and the sixers target 2 needs in free agency, say Afflalo and Gasol, would you risk that?
Meant sailed, sorry.
Dumping Iguodala's salary for nothing doesn't buy you a ton of cap space, and when you say targeting needs, I'm assuming your goal is to improve the team in the short term. That's not going to happen with the cap space you created by dumping him.
I would target young players that can grow with Jrue and Evan but it may have to be overpaying for a Jordan or Gasol and that would be risky in the new c.b.a. .
Minus Iguodala they'd be at like $42M without re-signing Thad. I doubt that's enough to sign anyone of any significance and Thad.
So what you're saying is they can't sign anyone of significance
It's all conjecture at this point. I doubt the cap is significantly above $50M under the new CBA, so yeah, no one of any significance.
I read an interesting point on Kamen on hoopsworld, I believe. That the clipps can't trade him because who knows the free agency rules in the new c.b.a. and if the lose Jefferson somehow they would be centerless. Good news for us, I guess.
You mean Jordan, right?
That should be a concern for them, they may not have Bird Rights for Jordan, and trading Kaman for a healthy contract would put them over the cap.
Yes, Jordan, sorry.
I feel the same way, I wouldn't give up any type of asset for him, what do you think about Kwame Brown as a cheap signing?
Don't he and our coach have some history? A guy like he or Mohammed would look like Wilt compared to last year.
Caution: The name 'Bismack Biyombo' sounds somewhat similar to Richard Congo, Herman Montenegro, Alphonso Ford, Marko Milic, Kyrylo Fesenko, Fennis Dembo and Dumbo.
Question, is there even like a 10% chance that Vucevic is any good? Wasn't he considered a second round pick till just recently? Is it becuase he can't run or jump? I'm scared of another Hawes, or worse, that Hawes will teach him everything he knows. Strangely though, I wouldn't be devastated if they took him.
Only going by his athletic testing (FWIW), he is not the slowest guy, but has zero lift. Which is fine considering his size. In terms of how he utilizes his ability, I'm not able to comment.
It seemed like as soon as he measured tallest at the combine his stock went up. About a month ago I read he may have a nice career in Europe.
C. Reina on his latest mock said the sixers take him because his scoring ability will translate and he has an unguardable hook shot. He reminds me of R. Nesterovic a little.
Yeah, i see Vucevic becoming something like Nesterovic or Krstic. A good backup C, but not really what we need.
seems like a stiff to me.
The most recent guy to slide down on draftxpress is not a good fit here but may be hard to pass on at #16, A.Burks. He is compared to Turner, shooting wise also, but he is a big s.g. and would be hard to pass on if they consider Turner a s.f. .
I just watched Burks workout video, his shot doesn't look nearly as bad as Turners'. He may be a no brainer pick if he is there at #16. A Jrue, Burks and Turner trio, if Iggy is moved could be good.
A 2 part question for Derek;
Why is Burks dropping?
Can he and Jrue and Turner work together?
I think Burks is a no-brainer pick if at 16, just from a talent perspective. I'm not entirely sure why he's falling, but i think he's a definite lottery talent, and probably top 10 in this draft.
Whether or not he can fit with Jrue/Turner is a tough question. Clearly, he's not the same kind of fit guys like Jordan Hamilton, Klay Thompson or even Eddie's favor Tyler Honeycutt are. But the question of whether or not he can be a fit down the line is different than whether he's a fit right now. IMO his shot isn't broken, more like Jrue's than Evan's, particularly with his feet set.
I don't think Jrue/Turner/Burks give you enough floor spacing, and they all need the ball to be most effective.
That said, my impression is that Burks is too talented to pass at #16. And so what if the roster is unbalanced- if they are all talented and young you can trade one of them at some point for a big.
Also need to keep in mind he's very young at 19. If going by fit, we probably would have passed on Jrue because he couldn't shoot at that age either.
Could the fact he got hurt and missed some workouts drop him down? Could teams be that shortsighted?
What do you think of Kahwai Leonard? I think he might slip; he doesn't seem like a top 10 guy to me, but that's where he is in the mocks I've seen. I saw him in the tournament and he didn't look all that skilled to me, but his shooting and defense are well-regarded by people who know better than I would. If Thad goes he might fit.
didn't see your comment below
How would you rank the top 16 prospects that you would the Sixers to draft?
My list is:
1. Derrick Williams
2. Bismack Biyombo
3. Enes Kanter
4. Jan Vesely
5. Marcus Morris
6. Tristan Thompson
7. Chris Singleton
8. Kawhi Leonard
9. Alec Burks
10. Tyler Honeycutt
11. Klay Thompson
12. Marshon Brooks
13. Kenneth Faried
14. Donatas Motiejunas
15. Jordan Hamilton
16. Nikola Vucevic
Where's Kyrie Irving?
I've been thinking what if we went another way, traded Iguodala for a big and drafted a SF. Derek, if one of Leonard, Vesely, Thompson and Singleton were to fall, who would you take? Who has the highest upside and who is the best fit next to Jrue and Turner.
I would take Vesely because he has the highest upside IMO, even though Thompson is probably the best fit. For some reason i don't like Leonard and Singleton... I feel like they are going to be busts realtive to where they are drafted.
I'm not a fan of Leonard at all. I've talked to a few people who have watched him work out and said he looks good, but I take those with a grain of salt. I'd much rather see what your shooting looks like in game situations. I think he's fairly overrated, and wouldn't touch him in the top 7. That said, if he falls to 16, his physical profile is probably too much to ignore.
Of those 4, I'd have ranked:
1) Leonard
2) Vesely
3) Thompson
4) Singleton
3 & 4 are close, though. I'm not a huge fan of Thompson.
Could T.Harris be better than all of them? I don't like him here because of his shot but something about his game and type of person he is makes him a solid pick.
Dan, my top 3 would be Williams, Kanter and Vesely. I think Vesely could have as much of a defensive impact as Biyombo. He may fill out to be a p.f. and become the white Josh Smith.
I think Tobias Harris is the most overrated prospect in the draft. I wouldn't touch him in the top 20 and think he's destined to be nothing more than an 8th or 9th man.
Watching the 1986 draft on nba tv and after the depression of Dougherty going #1, the next 2 teams did worse than us. Boston took Bias and Gold. St. Washburn. At least we got R.Hinson out of it.
this is the best news ive heard in a while
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/06/15/warriors-gm-we-are-not-shopping-ellis/
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/06/15/warriors-gm-we-are-not-shopping-ellis/
woops didnt mean to double post, my bad
Damn!! We just missed out on a franchise altering move and missed our opportunity to land a true star.
Damn you Iguodala apologists.
A major premise of this post is that Turner's not going to become a good perimeter defender. Frankly, I don't pay very good attention to the defensive side of the ball, but my admittedly poorly-informed sense is that that's not necessarily the case.
If only the Sixers had a lockdown wing defender in his prime...
My feeling on Turner right now is that he's a two. He may wind up being a very good two going forward, but I just don't think he's got enough athleticism to operate offensively against threes in the NBA. Defensively, he can probably defend either, but I'd prefer to have him guarding shooting guards.
For me, the Sixers need a backup three, and I'd prefer it be a guy w/ the size/athleticism to guard the better threes in the league and the versatility to be able to guard twos as well. I think that's a hole they can fill at #16, the other holes, not so much (unless they get very lucky).
I think they wont draft a 3. With Turner and Nocioni salaries, there's no way they take another 3. Even if Nocioni is useless, the organization cannot just swallow a cost like that, unless they trade him, he is the bench 3 after Turner.
Unless this guy can really shoot.
If Nocioni plays into the Sixers draft plans at all, someone needs to be fired immediately. He's a sunk cost sitting in a suit at the end of the bench. They need a backup three.
He's the shadow of Sam, eating up the cap two years after he left.
Turner is ideal a SG, since he can switch onto PG's or SF's. He has good length, strength and quickness for the SG position. He just needs to play between a PG and SF who can shoot.
If Turner ever plays up to his hype, he'd actually do well next to more of a spot shooting PG, sort of like how Kobe/MJ fit well with Paxson/Fisher. Except that MJ..Kobe..........ET.
My feelings exactly. I think he's suited to play the 2 or 3, but I feel that if you have a guy that can play both, why not have him play the position where he has good size?
It just seems like an awfully small hole. Like the Nets using their pick on a backup point guard. Actually, make that the Celtics, since Williams may well leave.
The Celts really do need a backup PG. They got murdered whenever Rondo went to the bench last season.
For the Sixers, I think it's a clear hole they need to address and, again, I don't see anyone being available to fill their bigger needs with that pick.
I think finding a good wing defender is do so overrated. There are hundreds of long, quick, athletic players to be found at your local playground that can just play defense. Worse case, even if they don't have the fundenentals that's something that can be taught if they are willing to give the effort. Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell and Matt Barnes come to mind. I would never waist a draft pick simply looking to fill that role.
Here's a commonsense deal: The Sixers trade Andre Iguodala to the Cavs for #4 and then trade that pick to the Pistons for Hamilton & #8. So you have:
Cleveland: Igoudala
Sixers: #8 & Rip Hamilton
Detroit: #4
This helps Detroit's cap space and moves them up in front of Toronto so they'll pretty much have their choice of Kemba or Kanter (or someone else they might like). Cleveland adds a better player then they'd ever get with #4 and it puts us into position for Biyombo. Hamilton isn't the "ideal" player imo (I want his shooting, but from the SF spot) BUT at least he's not super small like Ellis and can definitely knock down jumpers. He's slipping, but I think he could have a rejuvenation year. His deal expires the same year as Brand's so now you've set yourself to be major players in 2013 FA, and hopefully gotten Biyombo and Singleton at #16.
Why would we trade 4 for 8 and a ridiculously expensive declining player ? In this scenario they should be giving up something else to sweeten the pot for taking back Rip.
Cleveland offered nothing but a trade exception for Iggy. You think they're going to offer their #4 overall pick for Iggy? Not in our wildest drams.
Dare to dram.
Really, a trade exception? That can't be true.
In a weak draft, #4 is worth more than Iguodala? How dumb is Cleveland? I guess they think he makes way too much money.
He's referring to one line in an article about something else. That isn't even a rumor.
what the derp?
why in the world do u trade the #4 pick for the #8 pick and a bad contract?
just draft Biyombo at 4 [unless Williams miraculously is availble] then draft Singleton or Hamilton, if they drop, at #16