Happy belated Valentine's Day everyone. Hope your love life is treating you better than your Sixers fan life these days. Fresh off their first loss in which they carried a lead into the fourth quarter, the Sixers (minus Jrue) won't play for a week. Let's take a realistic at what this team's options are going forward.
OK, so the first decision the team needs to make is whether (a) making the playoffs this season is a possibility and (b) making the playoffs this season is a priority. Wednesday night's loss muddied the waters a bit, but they're certainly still within striking distance and there's a possibility the two teams immediately in front of them will make deleterious moves in the next week. If they're dead set on making the playoffs, maybe they can make a move that will benefit them in the short term, but it's hard to find a decent fit. If the playoffs aren't a priority, several more doors open on the trade front.
Here's the list of Sixers players who I think have a positive value on the trade market: Jrue (good contract, value on the floor), Thad (good contract, value on the floor), Nick Young (expiring contract, value on the floor), Dorell Wright (expiring contract, value on the floor), Andrew Bynum (anyone who seriously wants to sign him this summer would love to have his Bird Rights). I think Hawes is probably right on the bubble. There are a handful of teams who could use him and would value his mid-range game coming off the bench at the five. Boston certainly comes to mind. But he's owed quite a bit of money this year and next. I think, for most teams, Hawes would be an acceptable piece only if you're sending out long-term money in the deal. I consider Turner to have negative value. There might be a team out there willing to overlook his pitiful efficiency in the hopes that he can reclaim his college glory, but they aren't going to give up legitimate value to pay $12M to roll the dice that he'll suddenly figure out how to compete at this level on a consistent basis. There are moron GM's out there who will overvalue his counting stats, but I've yet to be convinced the Sixers are capable of taking advantage of an executive on another team. They've always been on the wrong end of that equation in my experience.
If the Sixers want to make a trade to upgrade themselves this season, the best they can probably hope for is moving Turner for a wing who can defend. I think a deal like that is out there to be made, but I doubt DiLeo and Collins would bite the bullet and pull the plug on the Turner fiasco without being able to at least save some face in the deal. Otherwise, I think the only way they can make a move with enough impact to move the needle from lottery to playoffs would be to find a team without cap space this summer and convince them they can re-sign Bynum if they trade for him now. A team without the means to bid on the open market who desperately wants him, health be damned. If you look at the rest of the guys with any value, you're going to be creating a hole to make the move, and this team already has so many holes, I don't see how it's going to improve their chances unless they absolutely swindle someone in a trade (which won't happen).
Now, if long-term contention is the only criteria for a trade, there's plenty of wiggle room. Nick Young and Wright are both extremely valuable assets right now. Expiring contracts who can contribute right now. Nick Young, in particular, could be very much in demand on the trade market. OKC comes immediately to mind. They desperately need punch off the bench, and the type of punch Nick is capable of providing. The Sixers can also put together a package of short contracts for a bigger, longer contract. They've got the two expiring deals, then roughly $19M in Hawes, Turner, Lavoy and Kwame with only one extra year left on their deal. If there's someone looking to sell a star, the Sixers can and should step up with a financial aid package. Something like Thad and Wright for Horford and DeShawn Stevenson would shave a bunch of money off Atlanta's books if they wanted to re-sign Josh Smith and make a run at Dwight Howard, for example. If the Pacers are looking to get rid of Granger, the Sixers can pretty much match his contract with expiring deals, opening doors for Indy in free agency this summer and giving the Sixers a core of Thad, Granger, Bynum and Holiday, if they choose to go in that direction.
The main point here is there are a ton of options out there. Even if they can't pull of a big deal for themselves, they have enough pieces to latch onto a deal other teams are making. To be a facilitator who picks up some spare change on the side. I'm not an advocate of blowing it up purely for the sake of dropping in the standings. Given the choice between a move that doesn't have a legitimate benefit going forward or staying the course and trying to squeak into the playoffs if/when Bynum comes back, I choose the latter, but the Sixers should absolutely be throwing caution to the wind over the next six days. The pieces they can use in trades (really outside of Jrue) aren't vital going forward. Explore every avenue and don't afraid to be bold.
i think the nba made their stats page public today
nba.com/stats
Kenny 'the jet' was on ESPN Radio this morning praising it as a way to be able to determine what a 'clutch' player is because you can look at time left and point differential and a players performance
Kenny has never heard of small sample size and the concept of noise in statistics.
he also kind of mocked any one who would do the kind of work required to make this available
Interesting split for Jrue. Look at how he performs in clutch to close games (with the lead) vs. when they're trying to come back in crunch time (trailing).
I'll take a look at it close this weekend. It looks nice on a first glance.
Why is there no FIRE DOUG COLLINS option? I've grown very tired of his coaching style and negative interviews.
i dont really trust Amico but there is some sixer stuff in here
http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/15/13/NBA-trade-buzz-Nets-get-set-for-deadline/msn_landing.html?blockID=864873&feedID=3725
It seems like the Nets are involved in every trade rumor. They've been reportedly "interested" in every decent player on the market yet they don't have much in assets to give away.
That's pretty much been their moto since Prokhorov took over.
Nice to hear we've been "engaged" in conversations about Bargnani.
How many years does he have left on his deal?
Nevermind, 2 more after this year. Also a trade kicker. Ugh.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd rather keep Hawes.
Is Bargs even going to be able to shoot? Weren't his latest injury problems in the elbow on his shooting arm?
I completely agree. Hawes rebounds, at least, and he does serve a function of sorts on offense.
I think the Hawks are trying to a build a front court with Horford and Howard. I doubt Horford is available.
I'd give up anyone on this team except for Jrue in exchange for Horford. 26 years old and only making $12 million/year.
This gave me a good laugh:
"With the trade deadline looming, speculation has turned up the possibility that Philadelphia would send Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes to Atlanta for soon-to-be unrestricted free agent Josh Smith. [But] such a deal would not interest the 76ers, according to two league sources with knowledge of the situation. "Why would the Sixers be interested in making a deal for a player who can walk at the end of the season and leave them holding nothing but the bag?" one source said. "I don't see where that makes sense for them." Although the Sixers would acquire Smith's Larry Bird rights -- meaning they could sign him to a more lucrative deal than any other team -- they would have no guarantee that Smith would re-sign with them."
can we all at least agree to ignore every rumor that doesn't come from that Woj guy bc he is the only one Thorn talks to?
Sorry this is sort of off-topic.
Just saw that Mo Cheeks is a finalist for the HOF again, as is Gary Payton who I think is a lock (at some point, if not in his first year of eligibility).
Any chance Mo gets in someday? If not this year then down the road? I know his stats aren't sexy at first glance, but he did do some impressive things. This is how he stacks up against Payton and Kidd through 15 seasons (Mo's entire career):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=cheekma01&y1=1993&p2=kiddja01&y2=2009&p3=paytoga01&y3=2005#totals::none
They shot/scored a great deal more obviously, but I think he stacks up pretty well as a PG and defensively. Their numbers are even closer in the playoffs. If the HOF voters are looking at advanced stats yet, he even better. Although I understand that longevity counts as well and they both played more years/games than he did.
I am too biased to judge, what are your honest opinions on it?
I think that raw counting stats have some meaning. Cheeks's per-minutes numbers compare favorably, but he only played 31 minutes a game, which is why he only averaged 11 and 6 over his career. I doubt there are many hall of famers with those raw numbers, or many hall of famers who only played 31 minutes a game. And it's not like that number is really a function of a long tail to his career; outside of 3 seasons in the prime of his career, and one season in which he played 50 games for the Spurs, Cheeks always played 33 minutes or less a game. I was surprised to see how efficient he was, but then, his usage was really low.
I'm biased too - he's just about my favorite player of all time. And I think he should be in.
The minutes/game number is skewed by the fact that he was a sub for the last few years of a long career. He led the league in minutes played once. He was the best defensive point guard in the league for about 5 years. He shot 52% for his career, an amazing stat for a 6'1" guy who wasn't a jump shooting specialist. I honestly don't think he'll get in because his numbers aren't great overall - regular season anyway; his playoff stats usually spiked upward pretty dramatically. His value was in the intangibles - how he ran that high-powered offense, his on the ball defense (as shown by his incredible performances against Magic Johnson in '82 - '83), and his uncanny ability to decide when to shoot, when to pass, when to drive to the basket. (Don't remember him ever missing a layup in traffic.) He defended passing lanes as well as any small man ever and turned steals and rebounds into layups in seconds. He was fearless, smart, unselfish, and a leader on the floor. A consummate professional and a joy to watch.
Anybody else think Garnett for DeAndre and Eric Bledsoe is a good deal for the Celtics? Garnett is close to done, and Jordan is a young center who's probably among the top 6 in the league.
Ok, so i like that deal for the Celtics because they can't realistically contend with their current team and Garnett is not part of their future. However, Jordan is far from a top 6 center in the league. He is backup center on a good team. Until he learns how to shoot free throw he can't even become a legit rotation player IMO, let alone more.
So why is it even a good deal for them? Rondo's still a better player than Bledsoe.
Well Bledsoe is not as good as rondo right now, but he's younger, & way more athletic with a high ceiling, he's already good & would flourish more with a starting job & good coaching, plus they get a young athletic center with upside too... They could than use rondo to bring in additional assets like prospects/picks, idk just an idea
At worst, he is a good trade asset. At best he is a part of their future and they can trade Rondo for another star at a different position. And they are not really losing anything because Garnett is not a part of their future and they are not winning this year no matter what they do.
I'm not sure that, with some creative general managing, they can't have an outside shot at contention with Garnett next season.
Will Purdue and Bill Wennington were starters on very good teams
That didn't make them good players
That was supposed to go to charlie
That's beside the point. The guy said Jordan is a "backup center on a good team." Then he said he's not even a legit rotation player, which is a ridiculous statement. I disagree, that's all. I didn't say that starting on a good team "makes him a top 5 center." It does make him a legit rotation player. I just think he's in the top 6 of guys playing right now. I can't think of 6 better ones unless you count Bynum and Garnett. I guess I should include Garnett because he has been playing center for about a year now, but I left Bynum out because he's never gonna play again. One thing for sure, Jordan is way better than Kendrick Perkins. One guy I forgot about is Gortat. I'd rate him higher than Jordan, I guess.
I'm confused, is he a good rotation player or top 6 in the league?
Regardless, including Jordan in a Garnett deal is bad for the clippers, and that's why they are turning down offers that include him (assuming KG ever stops off his high horse and realizes he's no longer wanted in boston and refusing the trade is only hurting the franchise he claims to love cause he 'bleeds green' though money is green too)
Isn't he the starting center on a very good team?
Let's see whose better: Howard, Chandler, Gasol, Garnett, uh.... Bynum???
Kendrick Perkins is the starting center on an even better team. Does that make him a top 5 center?
In addition to the guys you listed there trying adding these guys who are better than Jordan (off the top of my mind): Duncan, the other Gasol, Varejao, Lopez, Noah, Pekovic, Al Jefferson, Nene, Monroe, Gortat, Hibbert, Asik, Splitter, Favors, Vucevic, Okafor, ... and i'm sure there are many more... Jordan is not even a top 20 center, let alone top 6. Just because he is atheltic doesn't mean he can play.
And he doesn't even finish games... But he does start them. Jordan is a really a poor man's McGee.
People don't realize it, but this is a pretty good era for centers. If you think back ten years ago, things were way worse. Jamaal Magloire was actually one of the more promising centers around. Rasho Nesterovic started for two playoff teams. The best scorer in the league was playing with Andrew DeClerq. Raef LaFrentz had a huge deal. More generally, there were all these guys on rosters who couldn't really do anything and were signed solely because they could supposedly match up physically with Shaq.
anybody else watching our guy JRUUUUEEEEEE?
Almost brings a tear to my eye, shining bright spot of the season
The long two did Jrue in. Fitting :)
No news yet? Oh well, still 13 hours and 19 minutes left for My Cousin Turner's (MCT) proclamation to hopefully come true. Get busy Tony! Somebody wake Rod's ass up!
huh? the trade deadline isnt til thursday
What's your, " Cousin Turner's (MCT) proclamation" if you don't mind me asking, I'm curious as I'm anxiously waiting (& hoping) for a Turner trade -fingers crossed- & any corresponding news!
He's referring to my prediction that Turner will be traded, although it was pure speculation on my part and only based on the rumblings in the sports media that Turner is on the block.
I must admit that this was pretty amusing, even if I haven't been a fan of Turner for a good two years or so.
All-Star Gameday Factoids:
Rondo 3.3 WS/.111 WS48/102 ORtg/102 DRtg/.516 TS% (38g)
Jrue 2.9 WS/.078 WS48/101 ORtg/106 DRtg/.512 TS% (47g)
Kyrie 4.4 WS/.143 WS48/110 ORtg/109 DRtg/.567 TS% (42g)
~~~~
Deron 5.3 WS/.138 WS48/112 ORtg/109 DRtg/.542 TS% (50g)
Brandon 3.7 WS/.094 WS48/104 ORtg/106 DRtg/.499 TS% (51g)
Teague 4.0 WS/.112 WS48/106 ORtg/106 DRtg/.552 TS% (51g)
____
All-Star Gameday Opinion:
Jrue, NBA Turnover Leader (188); 'A-OK' floor general - - Doug's best sales job yet.
You are correct in that the NBA turnover leader is an all star. It's just not Jrue.
Jrue is actually 4th. 1-4 are all All Stars.
Okay, ONLY the Eastern Conference leader by TO total, but the NBA leader by TOPG measure (4.0), and 2nd to 18g "Ferrari" Wall in TOP48 (5.0 to 5.6). Please pardon the blemish on my pass (osmosis).
This much is Jrue: makes some nice plays along the way :)
So if the Sixers had to raise the stakes to get ATL to bite on trading them Josh Smith, would you do:
Thad Young, Spencer Hawes for Josh Smith and Z. Pachulia?
No. I prefer Thad over Josh Smith. Similar player, much better contract. And Thad is younger.
Josh Smith, some highlights-talent but I wouldn't bet on him in the clutch. I'll keep Thad's hustling lead, night in, night out; younger, takes better care of ball, proven good guy/teammate.
Even if you acquire Smith, where's he gonna take ya before he takes the biggest pile of money offered this summer?
The Sixers placed a big wad of cash and a mountain of wishes on Andrew Bynum, Mr. Monday Murmur Doantdu Diddley; thus, the tacit 'quiescence/no stink' agreement between the team and on-the-beat journalists about the extent or quality of the due diligence process prior to the swap, lest the team becomes, perhaps, even more red-faced than current record and fan regard now makes them.
The unknown number of doctors who examined Bynum and gave go-ahead to the organization; the mysterious summer bone bruise development; the solo 'big man moves practice' "ouch"; the surprise autumn Germany injections; the local bowling alley twist; the New York maintenance injections; two painful knees, one painful knee; the six stages of recovery; the team president telling writers to see the public relations dept for latest news... it IS, and HAS BEEN, a fabulous story...
"Long ago in a deep, dark forest there lived a brave bellwether named Howard Eskin... ."
If you can't count on Smith in the clutch then where does that put Young who has consistently disappeared in big games?
Tempting but I wouldn't do it. I just don't see a Bynum/Smith front court having much success offensively. I bet the Sixers would also have to re-sign him to a deal starting at $12 million/year. I'd be more open to this trade if there was a decent PF free agent on the market this summer.
The one thing I like about this trade is that Collins wouldn't be able to give Hawes a 3rd contract.
The word on the street is that the Jazz might trade Milsap for Eric Bledsoe. I've been down on Turner but I still think he's better than Bledsoe. Would you consider a Milsap/Turner swap?
Yesterday. And I'd definitely consider Eric Bledsoe a better basketball player than Evan Turner
Too bad no one agrees with you.
DAMN just missed jrue's dunk
not surprised at all tht pul george is standing out. he IS the player i wish evan turner could be.
evan turner:the poor man's paul george, who was of course on the board when turner was selected
Serendipitously that's the only thing I saw during the game, flipped it on during a commercial in time to see the dunk (and those god awful green shoes, what the hell?)
wtf is the taco bell commercial with all the comely young women making eyes at a guy with his baby. jesus
dwight's t-shirt thing is a cry for help
the problem in l with is that kobe shattered howard's confidence by trying desperately to be as homicidally competitive as jordan, and now he can't put humpty dumpty back together again
this doctor j oomercial is kind of embarassing. only the part about dunking is not palpably awkward
david stern and the nba love new york and the knicks so much
"put your cellphones in the air when we celebrate love, when we celebrate life"
this country has gone to hell
i'll take false idols for three hundred, alex
that commercial with the guy who gets traded from Harden's posse to Kris Humprhies' posse gets funnier each time I see it:
http://youtu.be/I4BbAwRiy7k
that actually makes me respect Humphries a little bit for having a sense of humor
Apparently, last night's garish spectacle moved David Stern and retinue deeply. "Marvelous" and "astounding" were responses overheard from his section, more than once.
I thought it was all relatively restrained.
pargo signed for the rest of the year
Interesting piece from Simmons on Jerry Buss today...wonder if he would consider our new owners "old guard, new guard or totally useless"?
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/51360/the-lakers-lose-buss-the-nba-loses-a-titan
Not sure they have enough time on the job to be categorized yet though they're headed towards totally useless in my opinion.
I know when people die all their flaws are forgotten, but Buss' inherent misogyny led him to put the wrong child in charge of his franchise, and it's only going to get worse
I don't think the Howard and Nash deals were bad moves at all. There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't make the personnel choices the Lakers did last offseason. Firing Brown and hiring D'Antoni was a mistake, but I think the problem is less coaching than it's Howard's bad back. I know you'll say that Howard's a petulant loser, which he sort of is, but he's always been a much better player than this. Just isn't very mobile right now.
Well since you don't think they were bad moves, they must not have been bad moves.
Howard healthy wouldn't work on this team - he is not of the right make up to work with Kobe Bryant - he's a cry baby
A healthy Howard works on any team, because a healthy Howard pretty much automatically gives you a Top 5 defense. I despise his attitude, and really him as a person, but he's not nearly playing at the level we've seen him at. I wonder if he'll ever get it back.
Nash, on the other hand, never made a ton of sense to me. Him and Kobe's past success relied way too much on dominating the ball. The idea that the Lakers needed a point guard never made a ton of sense because they've always won with bad point guards. And if you're trying to make Nash a spot-up shooter, there's no point in bringing him in. You can get guys who are much cheaper that can make shots and aren't defensive sieves.
And man, hiring D'Antoni has been horrible. They don't even come close to running his system, and that's all he knows.
The problem is the team as a whole is simply put a bad fit. The acquisitions of Nash and Howard weren't bad deals per se, but the resulting core simply isn't a good fit. The mistake was not thinking about it earlier. The Lakers need to make personnel changes IMO and in order to do that, they need to decide what kind of a team they want to be next season. If they want to rebuild around Kobe, they should trade Howard and Nash. If not maybe they should think about allowing Kobe get a title somewhere else.
If not maybe they should think about allowing Kobe get a title somewhere else.
I'm not sure I can see Kobe Bryant riding someone elses coat tails, and what team do you put kobe on that they're better than the heat or thunder (or even spurs) right now?
Kobe's career is rapidly approaching its end, and I for one couldn't be happier.
On paper, how are they such a bad fit? The only question mark to me, before the season started, was Nash's age and whether Kobe could play with a ball-dominant point guard. But, one could reason, precisely because Nash was getting so old, he wouldn't be able to orchestrate every possession and probably should be playing off the ball more, which isn't a bad thing given what a great shooter he's always been. Nash and Howard fit really well on paper, and so should Kobe and Howard. Gasol and Howard's more problematic, but Gasol can be used as more of a high-post player, and he and Bynum played reasonably well together. As it turns out, they're a good offensive team that's poor on defense, which according to most analysts is largely attributable to massive degradation in Kobe and Howard's play. But Howard's the octillion-time DPOY, so I didn't really see that coming.
Here are a few reasons, in no particular order:
- Nash is a great player only if he dominates the ball. If he doesn't he becomes a negative on the court, because he is one of the worst defenders in the league. With this system, Nash isn't doing much more than Fisher was. He was a solid shooter and a defensive sieve as well.
- Bryant's and Howard's personalities are so far apart that it affects their on court chemistry. Howard is guy that needs maintenance and Kobe isn't doing his team any favors with half of his public comments. And lets face it Howard is the type of guy whose off court stuff affect his on court performance. He was great in Orlando, because... it was Orlando and not a huge market like LA.
- Nash and Howard were a great fit on paper, because of the success Nash had with Stoudemire. However, in the few times i've seen the Lakers they've never run that kind of a play. And it's all because of Kobe, because that system makes him a spot up shooter most of the time.
- I never said that the problem was realistically on offense. It's on defense, where Nash can't guard anybody, Gasol can't guard athletic and stretch 4s and Kobe is a horrific off the ball defender. Add to it Howards slow return from injury and his head not being in the right place and what you have is a bad defense.
- The terrible defense isn't entirely fixable IMO. It was supposed to be bad anyway, it's hard to imagine Howard alone can make a top 5 defense. The way i thought they will still be able to dominate was by playing a best ever offense (because they have that much talent). And due to poor fits, injuries, terrible coaching and ill-advised comments in the media it hasn't materialized.
Brian, if you ever get sick of looking at yourself may I suggest this as another potentail logo for your site?
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2182989/jruedunk.gif
Kind of sad that that was (a) the 20th or so best dunk of the game, and (b) by far Jrue's best play of the game. Even taken out of context it's kind of blah.
watching live I never thought he was going to be able to dunk it. thought it was a nice dunk and there was actually a defender in the picture, which wasn't the case for about 20 others.
Jrue's best moment of the game was here (around 1:36):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfK7EjAOSY
Bring on the endorsements / commercials.
I find this terribly hard to believe: "According to the newspaper (Inquirer), the Atlanta Hawks called the Sixers and proposed a trade of Josh Smith for Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes. The Sixers turned it down."
It's been out for a while. It's not that hard to understand if have no interest in resigning Smith and you think Hawes and Turner have some, no matter how small, trade value.
I'd do the trade simply because i view it as the ultimate risk/reward type of trade that is a requirement if you want to build a championship level team, but i honestly wouldn't do it if i don't plan to resign Smith. As bad as Hawes is, and as disappointing Turner has been, there is a market for them IMO.
I find it extremely hard to believe the Hawks would want those two. My feeling is the Sixers would be better off if they made the trade and Smith walked than they would be having those two guys on the books for $13M next season, but I have serious doubts the Sixers were proposed this package and turned it down.
I mean, that package is so bad the Sixers should've just done it last week and flipped Smith this week. There's a much better package out there than those two. Humprhies and Brooks is a better package than those two considering ATL's cap situation.
Humphries has an absolutely horrific contract. And Brooks is an off the bench gunner. I was shocked the Hawks were even discussing that. Smith's value must be extremely low.
Reports are that the Hawks don't think he'll re-sign, and that he won't draw Dwight in. So he has no long term value to the Hawks.
However, making a bad deal that ruins your cap instead of just letting a guy walk and saving the money makes no sense to me in general, but in the NBA, sense seems optoinal