Take a look back over the past couple seasons (no really, I'll wait). The Atlanta Hawks, who will play host to the Sixers tonight, aren't dissimilar to Philly. They're kind of built the same way, with versatile athletic guys. They even have their old, slower than a snail point guard in Mike Bibby. This time last season, the Sixers were actually trying to chase Atlanta down for the #4 seed in the East. My how things change. Preview, matchups, game thread after the jump.
This summer, while the Sixers were letting Andre Miller walk, hiring a buffoon to coach their team and filling out their roster with Primoz Brezec and Royal Ivey, Atlanta brought Mike Bibby back (probably for too much money and too many years), drafted what they hope will be the PG of their future (Jeff Teague), traded for Jamal Crawford (a rich man's Lou Williams, possibly) and signed Joe Smith to bring a veteran presence to their front line. They also brought back Pachulia, an important move for them, I think, and they extended Marvin Williams, which I think they'll wind up regretting.
Granted, Atlanta was in better financial shape than the Sixers heading into the playoffs, and they also advanced to the second round of the playoffs last season, but rewind the clock a mere 12 months and these teams are on the same level. In fact, the Sixers actually handled the Hawks pretty easily in their late-season matchups last season and there's a very real chance they would've finished with the #4 seed had Thad Young not twisted his ankle.
Well, in that year, the Sixers have become essentially the worst-case scenario. A roster of talented players who has played to their floor rather than their ceiling, while the Hawks have made some minor changes and are playing at or near their ceiling. They currently sit in the #3 spot in the Eastern Conference, and if Boston continues to make a mockery of regular season basketball, that's probably where they'll finish.
Since we've talked in the comments about contending for championships and being mired in the too good to get better, too bad to win it all debate, I guess I have to ask. Would you guys rather have followed a course like Atlanta did? Instead of letting Bibby walk and maybe taking a step back this season, they reloaded and improved. Or better yet, when this season is over they're going to have to make a decision on Joe Johnson, do you think they should overpay to bring him back and keep this core together?
There's really no point to this line of questioning. If I was a Hawks fan, I'd be excited to watch this team play. I'd be excited by the fact that they've gotten better each of the past three seasons, and their franchise seems committed to winning. I can actually relate, because up until this past summer, I felt the same way about the Sixers.
Anyway, we have a game to play tonight, here's a quick look at the matchups:
Bibby vs. Lou Williams - Makes sense to put Lou on Bibby, who really couldn't get by me on the dribble these days. Bibby is shooting less than 40% from the field and below league average from three. Lou really should win this matchup, but we'll see what happens.
Jrue vs. Joe Johnson - Yet another tough matchup for the kid. Johnson won't hesitate to work on the blocks, so Jrue's strength and technique will be tested. Johnson's reputation says he's a star much more than his stats do, at least for the past two seasons. He's essentially an average three-point shooter these days, but he does contribute in all areas.
Iguodala vs. Marvin Williams - Marvin is a mid-range shooter who has extended his range to three over the past two seasons, but still shoots it at a below-average clip. Iguodala has a clear advantage here.
Josh Smith vs. Thad Young - Interesting matchup. You get the feeling that if Thad played with the energy Smith has, he'd be on the verge of stardom, while if Smith had some of the refined moves Thad has, he'd already be there. I give the edge to Smith's aggression, defensive mind set and completely abandoning the three pointer (0 for 6 on the season!)
Horford vs. Dalembert - Horford is a very good technical defender. Meaning he makes the correct play in most situations. His athleticism isn't great, and he's undersized to be playing the five, but he makes up for it with execution. Kind of the opposite of Dalembert, who uses his size and tremendous athleticism to overcome technical flaws in his defensive game. Offensively, Horford kills Sammy.
Bench - Crawford vs. Willie? Joe Smith vs. Speights? Yeah, I don't think our bench has much of a chance.
Continuity - Atlanta has used a grand total of two different starting lineups this season. The lineup we're going to see tonight has started 58 of 59 games. The Sixers have no idea what their lineup is going to look like, what their bench is going to look like or who will get what minutes. We're 60 games in and there is absolutely no stability to this team. Huge advantage to ATL.
Key to The Game: Don't let Crawford go bonkers when he comes in. He's probably going to wind up with Lou guarding him, limit the damage.
If _______________ the Sixers will win: Thad grabs 6 or more defensive rebounds.
This is your game thread, I'll be here throughout. Join me if you have no heart, you're gutless and your body language brings down your teammates.
Another thing about getting a real shooting guard will be that we could just let Jrue be free and go harass the opposing teams PG instead of having the cover the sg because Lou sucks balls on defense.
Well, I suppose you could say the sixers were mimicing the hawks if the hawks weren't more athletic at both the four and five positions and more skilled at the 5 position than the sixers (ignoring the gaping hole at the 2)
And they have a better bench
The hawks, those who passed on Chris Paul for Marvin Williams and gave Shelden Williams a lottery guarantee, are a better run organization than the Sixers.
But if they had drafted Chris Paul they wouldn't have gotten josh smith (is an argument someone used on me once) :)
Be interesting to see how they handle JJ this off season
Wasn't Josh Smith in the 04 draft and Paul in 05?
By the way, John, what would you want the Hawks to do with Joe Johnson if you were a fan of theirs? Can they win a championship with their roster as constructed (two top-30 guys but no superstar)?
Correct.
Whoops - maybe horford then? I know someone used the argument that by not drafting chris pual it enabled the hawks to draft someone good they wouldn't normally have gotten - which i found interesting
I think they're closer to a championship than the sixers are yes - but they have a small window and no point guard future behind bibby (which is a problem) - i think they should sign joe johnson the problem is 'fair contract' in this market - because when the knicks miss on lebron and bosh they're goinna over pay someone.
I don't know the hawks roster that well admittedly - and I know they have ownership issues - but supposedly Josh Smith has had a monster evolution this year and I think they have a solid chance to face cleveland in the finals if they pull the 3 seend
Both teams are flawed but a key difference between the Sixers and the Hawks is that Atlanta may not draft well (Horford and Smith being the exceptions) but they don't overpay their free agents with stupid money. The Sixers on the hand may draft well,(they basically take the youngest guy with the most upside) but they overpay their free agents to stupid money deals. I'm not sure the Sixers future is any more promising then the Hawks present...
Bibby and Marvin Williams are both probably overpaid, and their real decision is going to be made this summer.
You're right they may be overpaid but it isn't stupid money. Elton Brand is stupid money...
but when we signed Elton I dont think it can be considered 'stupid money' . And, the fact is when the Hawks signed JJ to his contract, it was viewed as so ridiculous that minority ownership brought a lawsuit agaisnt the team !!! Imagine that !
its obvious now which was the better signing, but we can't criticize the Sixers now for Brand because it really wasnt bad at the time.
i see your point of not wanting to criticize good intent; but you have to use hindsight when critiquing free agent signing just like you need to use hindsight when critiquing draft selections.
At the time the Elton Brand signing may not have looked bad but it’s bad now. Just like at the time of the 2005 draft the selection of Marvin Williams didn't look that bad because he was projected to be a star. It still looks really bad now since Marvin never panned out and the Hawks passed on both CP3 and Deron Williams...
At the time everyone criticized the Hawks for taking Marvin, no one criticized Stefanski for signing Brand.
Your point is valid, though. Hindsight is needed in evaluations.
I find your pre game above on the money. I find it amazing in 1 year how the 2 teams have gone the opposite directions! I refuse to believe the only reason is Andre Miller not being re signed. And this summer will be Atlanta's waterloo.
I do not believe this team is as bad as they look these days but we have to have our future play significant minutes so we don't have another year like the last 2 years.
As much as I hope, I think we may end up winning tonight depending 100% on the rotations.
I'm getting the Hawks broadcast in HD. These guys are jokers.
Same starting lineup.
One brick and three turnovers on the first four possessions for the sixers. awesome.
Timeout Jordan with 8:30 left in the first.
Pretty bad start on the offensive end, if you ask me.
Nice drive by Lou, scores over J. Smith. Completely loses Bibby on the other end who cans a three.
Nice drive by Jrue on the other end.
This game is going to put me to sleep again.
WTF? That was a half-court set w/ no screens and Lou Williams was on Josh Smith.
This team has no offensive sets. After the first timeout, IA9 took a long jump shot. No organization, just a mess on the floor.
And, defensively, no help or energy. And, these refs are picking on HOliday. This 2nd foul was lame.
And No fouls on Atlanta????? And, IA9 no longer drives to the hoop.
I am not happy, ready to switch to the Flyers.
This is just pitiful.
Funny that this is the team's reaction after Jordan's tirade to the press. He can't last the season if play like this continues, can he?
Down 32-22 after 1.
The Flyers game, in 5 seconds, 2 fights already! Alot of action there.
I miss my 76ers. How far we have dropped in 1 year.
im in the minority, but i think he is going very soon
"The Sixers continue to find new ways to turn the ball over."
Jason Smith can't get out of his own way.
You know, Lou really thrives in this no defense system. He loves it. There's a serious chance he could really raise his value in these last 22 games and we may be able to move him in the summer. That's assuming Stefanski doesn't overvalue him based on meaningless production on one end of the floor.
You hit the nail on the head with Lou. Hope they trade him for a REAL shooter! 3 fights so far with the Flyers. In less than 3 minutes!
Jason Smith seems like he is very injury prone! Hurt his hand now?
This is a fucking embarrassment. An absolute embarrassment.
agree
Am I wrong, it appears Carney has really declined this year. He can't shoot or defend.
Why are the backups still in here?
Jordan sending a message, or this unit is the best equipped to play no defense and jack up a ton of 20 footers.
Because the starters don't give a shit.
Not sure why Jrue got yanked in that timeout.
Announcers said EJ is staying with the hot hand! I hate EJ. I almost cannot watch them anymore on TV.
Who wants to bet that EJ is going to start Green and Williams very soon in the back court? And, when that happens, that will send me over the top.
I don't think he's allowed to do that.
Down 51-61 at the half. My wife is making some kind of stir fry for dinner, at least I have something to look forward to.
This team is quickly becoming unwatchable.
This tells you all you need to know about these players with this first half effort following up the calling out publicly.
If they even had half a set of balls, they would have come out and busted their ass, if for nothing else but to spite the coach.
And if not for that, just for fucking pride. But they don't even have that. ugh
heh, I like how Lou williams has scored 17 pts yet still has a +- of -13.
Driving in the rain in california sucks, but listening to the ESPN Radio of LA review the 'career' of Allen IVerson and hearing all the callers call up about how he ruined basketball really made it fun
:)
Yeah, I mean, remember that time he raped a chick in Colorado then paid her off. Oh, nevermind. Kobe RULZ!
He was a thug
he brought the thug mentality to the NBA
he had no respect for the game or anyone
Let's play the practice comments repeatedly
Shot too much
selfish
Bad Role model (tiger woods was a good role model wasn't he)
Brought hip hop culture to NBA (I'm not sure why this is bad)
6 minute run for Jrue. Need to get reps for Willie.
He is our future
Only 26 points allowed in the third. Baby steps.
On the bright side, Speights drew two charges and Lou is tearing it up on the offensive end.
Jody Meeks also off the bench!!!!! Oh, he stood to applaud Lou.
It's official, more minutes for Willie Green than Jrue Holiday tonight, unless it goes to overtime. That's outfuckingstanding.
did jrue do something personal to jordan to make him get barely any minutes tonight?
what the fuck is wrong with this coach
Lou sure looks happy out there, huh? Fucker.
If anyone has the stomach to watch Jordan's presser, please leave quotes in the comments here.
In a 19-point loss, that was really over at the half, Jrue Holiday played 19 minutes, Speights played 15, Meeks didn't play at all. Willie Green played 32.
he pretty much said the same bullshit he always does, they were making their shots and we were turning the ball over and you can't win that way. he like what lou brought offensively and same with willie and willie's leadership(?) and all that stuff. he also said if iguodala wants to be a leader he has to be a top scorer for us and it's hard for him because he's trying to make plays for everyone.
so your leader has to be your top scorer, huh? tell that to jason kidd, john stockton, and magic.
brand's not playing so EFJ's taking shots at the next best thing.
we're 2 and 6 when lou williams has attempted 15 or more field goals. And 1 of the games we won with him shooting 15 FGs he had 11 pts...
Link:
http://nba.phillyarena.com/teamstats/savedquery/700/
oh wow lol, i went old fashioned by using the espn game log hehe. This site is gonna save me time :). Found this interesting though http://nba.phillyarena.com/teamstats/savedquery/720/
That's why I made it :)
I used to do the same as you, going through game logs to find certain scenarios. When I started working on the game database, it was one of my first priorities.
For that link, one thing to keep in mind is of those 13 games, 12 of them were games where Williams was injured. He's only failed to play 15 minutes once when healthy. They struggled mightily when he was injured, although whether that was related to him being out if up for debate.
There is a Fan Forum next Monday, 3/8 from 5:30-8:30PM. I was told that it was for us to express our opinions (my Season Ticket rep said that is right up my alley). Can I get an idea of who is coming and how to handle this meeting? My thought is to start at 5:30 in unison a chant of "Fire Eddie". Any thoughts, suggestions, etc.....
During the Sixers' four-game losing streak, they have:
given up an average of 110.8 points;
allowed foes to shoot 50.9 percent (172-for-338) from the field and 45.6 percent (36-for-78) from 3-point land;
permitted three of the four (and five of the last six opponents in losses) to lead by a minimum of 22 points.
more fun stuff:
besides being outscored by 108-51 from 3-point land in the four-game losing streak, the Sixers have allowed an average of 53 points in the paint;
they are 1-17 when opponents shoot 50 percent or better from the field;
while williams had a season-high 30 points on 11-for-15 shooting vs. Atlanta, he also had the game's worst plus-minus (-24).
That's one of the craziest stats I've ever seen. -24, holy crap.
Opponents' 40.2 shooting on 3-pointers this season is the second-highest in NBA history (Kings allowed 40.6 percent last season).
Got home late from work, went to turn on the DVR, turns out the listings was wrong and what was listed as the Sixers game was the flyers game. I'm debating whether to record the encore showing or not. Looking at the boxscore, it might be one to skip.
I guess overall good that the sixers are quickly losing enough to mathematically eliminate. Is EJ maybe just telling players don't worry about defense, show me what you got offensively? Could be a good set up for future years after EJ is gone. Let them learn some offense and then bring in a good defensive coach next year. They'll be able to use all the wisdom of EJ + a full season fully healthy Brand to go into second round or so. Some of this years downers are due to bounce back too. I'm feeling good about balance of season and next.
wisdom eh?
Hey Tom Moore - do you know if iverson ever brought his daughter up to CHOP? Saw that you wrote an article on it over 3 weeks ago. If not, why not? i hope she's well and all, but am wondering what's the scoop? If I had endless $ and a sick kid, not sure where else I'd be, though maybe I'm giving CHOP too much credit. (and for the record, I'm a huge Iverson fan)
Tired of EJ. Bashing him almost not worth the effort... although he needs to Free Jrue in a game like this.
Bit my bigger long term concern is Speights and Thad. They have regressed so badly this year it is scary. If they are the future...
very good points. It looks like the whole team has decided to forget defense and just chuck up the ball with the hope they get a few more minutes. If they avoid fouls (by not playing defense), they get more play time. But everyone is just shooting the ball, it gets in their hand, they need to try to get a bucket to stay on the court a few more minutes.