Call it constant fiddling, call it musical chairs, call it a desperate coach trying any combination he can think of ... whatever you call it, though, Doug Collins can't seem to go more than a week without turning his starting lineup on its head. The
latest permutation has Evan Turner and Thad Young headed to the bench with Craig Brackins and Jason Kapono taking their spots on the A team. Thoughts after the jump.
Just to bring you up to speed, this is the latest starting lineup Collins has gone with in practice:
- Jrue Holiday
- Jason Kapono
- Andre Iguodala
- Craig Brackins
- Elton Brand
Essentially, he's added in shooting with Kapono (and Brackins to a lesser degree), subtracted defense and rebounding by removing Turner. Thad and Brackins may be a wash defensively and on the glass.
I don't have a huge problem with this move. Kapono played pretty well with the starters toward the end of last season and Collins has a huge thing for spacing the floor, which he probably should. Getting Kapono on the floor is worth a shot, pardon the pun. Personally, though, I'd look to do it a different way.
Since Collins seems to want to try everything and anything, how about this?
- Jrue Holiday
- Evan Turner
- Jason Kapono
- Andre Iguodala
- Elton Brand
I know it seems silly to take your best wing and play him as a big, but honestly, Iguodala is probably the best power forward on the roster. At the very least, he's the best rebounding power forward on the roster, and he's got the strength/technique to make up for the lack of height. Whenever he's played PF in the past, he's done an excellent job even when bigger players have tried to post him up.
If spacing the floor is a concern and Collins is serious about going small, Iguodala is the only wing he has who has even a remote chance of holding his own at the four in that type of lineup. You've tried everything else, throw this lineup out there and see what happens.
Doug Collins is the captain of the ship
The players are just the deckchairs
Brian I get your point but Kapono AND Iguodala defensively could set a new record for the worst matchups ever for two forwards. They basically couldn't guard anybody at their respective positions.
I think you still have in mind the good job Iguodala did with the US team at the latest WC, when he guarded many bigs pretty well, but putting him on any of the PFs of the NBA would be a serious concern I'm afraid
again, I understand it's just an idea you are throwing out here
I also hate Brand at C, it's too Eddie Jordan for me, but this is another story :-)
Disagree on Iguodala. He's guarded PFs very well in the past, including Dirk and Bosh, just off the top of my head. The bruising guys would give him problems, but there aren't a whole lot of them. More to the point, though, is that even on bigger PFs, Iguodala has a better shot than any of our stiff bigs on the defensive end. At least you know he's going to put in the effort.
uhm, totally disagree this time.
Maybe he guarded them in some situations and perhaps occasionally did well vs them, but the thought of having Iguodala on the likes of Dirk & Bosh for more then 2-3 defensive plays makes me sick.
All I rememeber is that the 2 guys you mentioned have routinely killed us and even scored many decisive baskets in close games, all lost (not saying they made those shots vs Iguodala, I rememebr Sam, Evans etc being burned by Dirk and Bosh on those specific plays)
Kapono in the starting linup? Yuck! This better just be a ploy to shake things up in preseason, not for when the games actually count. He's a guy that's had a negative wins produced in 4 of the past 5 seasons. If Collins goes into the regular year playing Kapono more than a few minutes a game, I'll lose some faith in him cause that means he's not looking at everything that makes a team productive. Unless of course the main idea is just to try and get the worst record, and then by all means put Kapono out there regularly.
Starters Tuesday: Turner, Elton, Iggy, Kapono, Battie
Anyone watch the Bronx is Burning on ESPN? I didn't watch the whole thing but caught a scene with Turturros character was pulling names out of a hat to set the line up (I'm sure there was a point) but it's starting to feel that way
Yeah, I saw that a while back. Pretty sure Martin did that because Reggie was complaining about where he was batting in the order, and Munson was pissed too. Reggie picked the names out of a hat and wound up picking himself fourth.
Collins starting Turner because Turner is heading home to Ohio. Second group will be Holiday, Williams, Young, Nocioni and Speights (if Speights can play).
Collins said Holiday will go back to starting Wednesday.
Glad you posted this follow up, my head was about to explode.
Collins said he talked to Holiday about not starting and said Holiday was fine with it.
He could've just held off on putting Kapono in there for five minutes of game action, that way he wouldn't have had to bench Jrue coming off a triple double.
Or, you know, he could just realize Jason Kapono shouldn't start.
Said he's looking for effective combinations and might have to split up some of his best players to make the two groups more even.
Personally, I would think Nocioni would fit better in the starting line-up than Kapono... but really nneitehr belong.
I'm sure all of the shuffling just hammers home the unbalanced squad Thorn has to "shuffle" through trades.
It's too bad Turner isn't from Philly, he could start 41 games that way.
Well done, Brian.
Hawes looks like only guy who won't be available Tuesday.
Hawes can start when they play in Seattle :) And Brand when they play in Peekskill.
Video of Turner and Collins after Monday's practice:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/opinions/blogs/intell_blogs/tom_moore.html
Why not start Meeks instead of Kopono? Meeks is definitely better defensively and pretty much everything else except for a slim margin in shooting. Seems to me if you're going to start a shooter it should be Meeks.
Good point.
On possible reason is I don't think Meeks is quite the shooter Kapono is, and maybe more importantly, the other team isn't going to respect his shot the way they will Kapono's.
Sixers leaders in PER (from nba.com) thus far in the preseason:
Holiday: 14.00
Turner: 13.2
Williams: 11.6
Speights, Iguodala and Thad are all hovering around the 10 mark.
Obviously, its preseason so take it with a grain of salt, but Turner has shown steady improvement and ranks ahead of Favors (3.83), Johnson (7.67), isn't that far behind Wall (15.83). Turner's getting more minutes than Johnson or Favors, so don't read too much into it but a little positivity (however meaningless it may be)doesn't hurt, especially considering all the Turner is a bust shenanigans going around already.
A stat line of 10 pts, 7 boards and 3 assists isn't too shabby and those numbers are only going to go up once real basketball starts. Turner's a smart guy and he's adjusting to the new expectations for him, give it time and have patience. This season may not take us to the playoffs but the 76ers will be a far stronger, more confident team at the end of the year as our young core gains experience and the personnel is evaluated by Collins and Thorn, who actually have a clue as to how basketball works.
Thanks for the post. Interesting.
I hate PER, though.
I'd like to see
Jrue
Turner
Thad (guarding 3's)
Iguodala (guarding 4's)
Brackins
Why go small with no-board-Brand? I like small ball with Iggy guarding the 4.
God, this team in such terrible shape.
Brackins isn't much of a rebounder- but nobody else is either. I'd say let's let it fly on potential alone! Turner could even guard the three and let Thad try his hand at the 2! Maybe that's his true position- doesn't seem like any other defensive positions have worked.
Brackins isn't much of a rebounder either
That team would get utterly destroyed inside, night in night out. What's really distressing is that other lineups (Brand, Battie, Hawes) aren't much of an improvement.
Yep. No matter what combination you make, it's pitiful. The funny thing is how they tried to sell us that losing Dalembert wasn't a downgrade. Hawes is so damned ball friendly, everyone's going to love playing with him!
Worst frontcourt in the NBA? I can't think of any competition.
Off the top of my head I'd say Warriors without looking at rosters but then I remember they got David Lee (speaking of 'soft numbers' that everyone wants to accuse Zach Randolph of getting). who still is better than what the sixers are throwing out there right now.
Yea, GS is poor but at least Lee can put up numbers, lack of D aside. Pacers are pretty bad too, and Charlotte would be a laugh if it wasn't for Gerald Wallace doing so much dirty work for them. Suns are really thin but I still think they'll have more success than any of the teams listed above.
Biedrins + David Lee > Sixers' frontcourt
Roy Hibbert + Hansborough? > Sixers's frontcourt
It's very difficult to come up with a frontcourt tandem worse than ours.
Yeah, would Brand, Hawes or Speights be starting on any other team- let alone be the entire frontcourt rotation?
It wasn't everyone. It was me. David Lee fits nicely in the hollow numbers category as well.
The Warriors have at least 3 players better than any PF/C player of ours... Lee, Biedrins, and Amundson.
I have a feeling Udoh will be better as well.
I already seen people saying Collins doesn't like Turner cause he's not a good shooter. Do you think there's any truth to this or just speculation? It seems like Turner's doing everything else on the court pretty well besides shoot from the outside. Maybe that's why Collins wants to put him on the bench in favor of someone like Kapono who only has one discerable skill out there? He's making me scratch my head a little.
There's a quote somewhere where Collins said that Turner reminds him a lot of himself at that age. So unless Collins hates himself, I'd say no...
The person that reported that Collins hates Turner is Bill Simmons. An entertainer more than a journalist. Doubt he had any legit source for that statement
Video of Collins and Turner from today is now here:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/sports_now.html
Here's one of those 'positive' Kahn Comments from hoopsworld - it's almost sixer related
Yannis Koutroupis:
I'm not exactly sure who that one guy is Shawn, but I can't wait for Kahn to pull off a steal and shock everybody. Then when they get Rubio watch out, they're going to be a damn good basketball team and everyone who doubted him is going to have to eat their words. As far as the starters go, I would have Wes at the two and Beasley at the three. I've been very impressed with Beasley so far and I think purely based on Wes' potential and what the Wolves invested in him that he should be the guy.
Sorry, the question asked about the 'steal of a deal' Kahn will pull off this season, the questioner thought it should be Iguodala
Kahn lost all credibility for me when he told Chris Webber to his face that he sees a lot of Cwebb in Darko Milicic.
Collins on the 33 combined turnovers from Holiday (20) and Turner (13) in five preseason games: "We can't be careless with the ball. We just can't do that. We cannot be a team that loses that (turnover) battle."
Good thing Jrue doesn't turn it over more than just about any other PG... oh wait.
Collins, asked if he worries about Iguodala only having eight FTA in four games: “I worry about a lot of things. We’ve got to get to that foul line. I’m hoping that Andre – we’ve put him in a position to slash and cut. He hasn’t played a ton of minutes. He knows I don’t want him to be a guy that shoots a lot of jump shots. He’s got to be a guy who gets to the rim for us.”
Collins on what he's looking for in final two exhibition games: "I just want us to start getting an identity. We’re going to be a team that there’s not a lot of separation between the guys that start the game and the guys who come off the bench. We’re going to have to have two units playing well all the time for us to be successful."
Turner on starting in Holiday's place in Tuesday's game vs. the Cavs in Cincinnati: "I think (Collins) should do what’s best for the team. Jrue’s coming off a triple-double. He’s in a good rhythm and everything like that. In the preseason, you do things like that.”
Turner on his preseason so far: "I’m playing hard. I’m rebounding and trying to help my team. It hasn’t been the best, but everything I do I always start out slow, whether it be high school or college. I know if I keep playing hard and working hard, good things will come."
A question to everyone: List three things that give an NBA team their "identity"? Coaching? Scoring? Work ethic? Defense?
Three things that give them their identity? I'd probably say stars/superstars/recognizable players, pace of play (Phoenix is fast, Charlotte is slow), and defense.
Empty arena,redundant roster, Chili's.
Grit, Scrappiness, Mullets
The Sixers "identity"
1. Tall guys who like to shoot but can't defend or rebound.
2. Perimeter players who like to dribble abut can't shoot.
3. A front office that burns its way through a coach a year.
4. A team with a big ticket, older PF, who is a shell of what he once was (CWebb, Brand- who will be next?)
5. Empty areanas.
6. Sixers, as in the #6 show in town (#1-Phils, #2Eagles, #3Flyers, #4Big 5/6, #5Soccer/Arena FB/Lacross/Dog Show...Sixers.)
Personnel, coaching at a high level. As a general rule, though, personnel can overcome coaching. Coaching can not overcome personnel though.
Alright this is something I would usually put on Liberty Ballers rather than this site. But it's so funny I wanted to post it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-MsCdTGQJ8&feature=related
Check out the second dunk by Webber as a sixer
Even funnier is the first related video- Chris Mihm highlights to Nsync music.... hilarious
That's good stuff. Except CWebb, which was just foul.
speaking of highlights! this is back when we had salmons and korver and sammy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94J_oSwggFI
this is also pretty funny!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxVRQHU5It0&feature=related
Brian, WTF was Girardi saving Rivera for in the top of the 9th???? Holy crap, that's unbelievable.
So you think a closer should be brought in when a team is down 2-0 and hasn't been able to get squat off of Lee (who would have pitched the 9th if the Rangers didn't tee off on the Yankees Bullpen)?
Last nights loss is not on Girardi, Lee just bitchslapped the Yankees (as he seems to do in the playoffs these days) and Hamilton got a hold of one early.
I don't know why everyone is panicing in yankee land, 2-1 rangers lead is what the series is 'supposed' to be at after 3 games. Yankees win today it's a 3 game series. Though if I'm the yankees I really don't want Game 7 in Texas against Lee. Like pedro once said, cliff lee is the yankees daddy :)