If the game is in question, Doug Collins trusts eight players on his roster. Spencer Hawes, Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Jodie Meeks, Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lou Williams and Thaddeus Young. That's his group. Those are his guys, and he's going to win or lose with them on the floor. Whether relying so heavily on eight players is sustainable over the course of this abbreviated season remains to be seen, but for now, that's his plan and he's sticking to it. Let's see how he's mixed and matched those players so far.
First of all, if not for Hawes' dramatically improved play thus far, it wouldn't be possible for Collins to have trimmed his rotation to eight, so more well-deserved kudos to Spence for doing whatever he's doing. Also, if you missed last night's SixersBeat episode, you can listen to the replay right here:
OK, so the Sixers have played 288 minutes so far. For 242 of those minutes, the entire five-man unit on the floor has been made up of guys in the top eight of the rotation. Overall, the team is +78 points on the season. Oddly enough, the team is also +78 for the 242 minutes when the top eight have been the only ones on the floor. They're a flat 0 in +/- for the other 46 minutes when at least one other guy on the roster is in the mix.
Since Collins only has two options at the five in his 8-man rotation, it's actually pretty simple to break down the possible combinations of players he can use. There are only 30 combinations, so the first chart will look at the cumulative success of each lineup (he's used 25 of the possible 30 combos). A few caveats, the sample size is ridiculously small here, so this isn't a slight on Collins for playing or not playing certain rotations, it's just a quick look at which units he's gone with to this point and how they've performed. Also, you have to take into account the level of competition. For example, the starting lineup plays against other teams' starting lineups at least twice a game for a decent chunk of time. Anyway, here's the first chart, think about the limits to what Collins can do in terms of mixing and matching when he's limiting himself to 8 players (PER MIN is plus/minus per minute on the floor):
So the starting lineup has the second-best +/-, with Hawes, Brand, Iguodala, Turner and Williams as the best. The worst is a tie between Hawes, Thad, Turner, Meeks, Lou and JTI with Hawes and Brand (which is surprising). Now let's take a look at the 27 lineups ranked by plus/minus per minute:
Not a lot to draw from this chart, yet. Lineups with Hawes at the five and Thad at the four have really performed well. The best lineup with a decent amount of minutes is again, Hawes, Brand, Iguodala, Turner and Williams. JTI with Hawes and Thad has showed some promise as well.
Now let's take a look at the same chart ranked by minutes played:
If Collins was using his rotations perfectly, the colors in the far right column of this chart would go from green to red, top to bottom (once you remove the outliers), meaning he'd be giving the most minutes to the most successful lineup combinations. Obviously, he's not there yet, but the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions from it.
Ultimately, these charts serve a great way to keep track of what he's doing with his 8-man rotation, to look at what's available to him in terms of combinations he can put on the floor and it provides a template. Something we can look back on after maybe 20 games, or 33 games. When we accumulate that much data, we can maybe begin to draw some conclusions about whether Collins is getting the right groups out there, or if maybe he's leaning too heavily on a certain lineup that's having very little success.
We've got another game tonight, at 8pm against the Raptors (who lost to the Nets last night). The game thread/seriously brief preview will be up around 5pm. Until then, leave your thoughts on these charts and/or Collins rotations in general, in the comments below.
One thing I forgot to mention. There are more combos where you play Thad at the three, and even combos with Iguodala or Turner at the four, but I stayed away from anything that wasn't a legit lineup Collins would choose to use in a normal situation. Thad pretty much never plays the three anymore, and Collins only goes super small for an end of quarter run, or in some kind of emergency.
They've played some dog teams. Hawes is like a big excited kid around a keg at the start of a frat party before classes have begun. 14, 12 (almost 2x his career norm) & 4 start - equivalent of beer muscles imo. Wait'll reality Monday (legit teams w/legit bigs). If he continues his strong play, I'll be shocked.
What is most noticeable is the effort not the result. Bad or good teams, Hawes rarely played well last year. If he continues like this, he will do just fine against legit bigs. Fine meaning rebounding and putting up some semblance of a fight. Perhaps low expectations but he is already a dozen games from winning me over.
At this early stage in the season, the Sixers lead the league in point differential and are 4-1-1 against the spread, so we'll continue to see surprisingly large spreads for them.
While they have played a weak schedule, the ability to consistently blow out bad teams is one mark of a good team. (As an extreme example, the St. Louis Rams looked really good against a weak schedule in 1999, leading the league in scoring margin at almost 18 per game but beating no other playoff teams. Many were skeptical of them going into the playoffs, but three close[r] wins later, they were Super Bowl champions.)
Another interesting stat: the Sixers are #2 in the league in opponent FG% allowed. Guess who is #1? Their opponents tonight, the Raptors. I haven't seen any Raptors games, but I'm shocked that any team with Calderon and Bargnani can be playing good defense.
Derek and I talked about this during the show last year, this whole thing hinges on Brand and Hawes being healthy and productive enough to essentially split the entire 48 minutes at the five, plus Brand's time at the four. They either need to be able to count on Voose for up to 20 minutes on some nights (probably this week), or they need to get another big who can join this rotation on a somewhat regular basis. I like Kenyon Martin when he's eligible to come back stateside. In the short term, I don't think there's really a free agent out there who fits the bill.
Just a footnote about the Raptors defense this year. I think that early on when you have a defensive coach like Dwane Casey it becomes a mindset for the player hence the uptick in opponents low FG % against.I would agree that Calderon and Bargnani certainly are not defensive minded players. I do agree that Thad's defense is much better so far this year than I have seen. I am really happy with the way the Sixers have defended this year and I believe that it can get even better under Collins.
Defensive mined or not - they are showing effort (I'm watching the Nets/Raptors replay from last night right now) Calderon is an athletic point guard with good court vision, neither brand nor hawes are a good defensive matchup for Bargnani, and whoever is guarding him will be pulled away from the basket defensively.
DeRozen was great 2 games ago, and horrid last night, (which hurt my fantasy team as well as his team some)
He's pretty much always been a complete defensive liability. I think you can pick and choose how you attack him. I'd like to see Jrue in the post, we'll probably see it once.
Still early in the game I'm watching but Williams posted him up pretty easily - but only once...the nets seem to avoid going into the low post, not sure if that's their m.o, or just something they're doing in this game cause of Okurs back spasms, but I think feeding spencer and elton early could be a good idea too...4th qtr jodie is important too...the ratpros are sometimes a bit slow on their rotations
IF Hawes and Brand are the two most important and least replaceable dudes for this team this year...doesn't it make it that much more important to get them some minutes off and use guys like Battie, Brackins, V8 (if healthy, they kept checking his back during timeouts last night) and maybe even Allen during blowouts?
The only problem with this 8-man rotation IMO is that if (when?) someone gets hurt, they really have noone to replace them with. Vucevic might be able to do well in limited minutes, i am encouraged by his early play, so he might help lessen the burden on Hawes and Brand later on. But other than him there is noone dependable.
Other than injuries i don't think this kind of tight rotation is that much of a problem in terms of stamina. This is not a regular 8man rotation that teams with little depth use. Those teams wear out their starters and give little playing time on all of the 3 reserves for the most part. This 8 guys can almost equally split the minutes in various combinations so that they won't play too much on a per game basis. So far they are all between 35.8 (Holiday) and 22.2 (Meeks) which i think each of the players should be able to sustain without a drop off in performance.
On a side note, the Sixers are currently 2nd in offensive efficiency and 3rd in defensive efficiency. I wonder how long they can keep the offensive brilliance up.
Yes. '74-'75 Lakers (30-52), '79-'80 Celtics (61-21), '90-'91 Bucks (48-34)... just a few examples. Research at basketball-reference.com will provide more.
$17.76 tix, the pull of dollar dogs, liberal issuance of complementaries by mktg dept ("do you want a block for your group?"), a 1st place team (yes indeed), Sat. night ... gimme the 'over' on ANNOUNCED number.
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One thing I forgot to mention. There are more combos where you play Thad at the three, and even combos with Iguodala or Turner at the four, but I stayed away from anything that wasn't a legit lineup Collins would choose to use in a normal situation. Thad pretty much never plays the three anymore, and Collins only goes super small for an end of quarter run, or in some kind of emergency.
They've played some dog teams. Hawes is like a big excited kid around a keg at the start of a frat party before classes have begun. 14, 12 (almost 2x his career norm) & 4 start - equivalent of beer muscles imo. Wait'll reality Monday (legit teams w/legit bigs). If he continues his strong play, I'll be shocked.
Sixers need more than 8 for the long haul.
What is most noticeable is the effort not the result. Bad or good teams, Hawes rarely played well last year. If he continues like this, he will do just fine against legit bigs. Fine meaning rebounding and putting up some semblance of a fight. Perhaps low expectations but he is already a dozen games from winning me over.
Hawes is really making it for Collins to find minutes for Vucevic.
sixers -10 tonight vs the raptors
Big line. What's over/under?
186.5
Big line.
At this early stage in the season, the Sixers lead the league in point differential and are 4-1-1 against the spread, so we'll continue to see surprisingly large spreads for them.
While they have played a weak schedule, the ability to consistently blow out bad teams is one mark of a good team. (As an extreme example, the St. Louis Rams looked really good against a weak schedule in 1999, leading the league in scoring margin at almost 18 per game but beating no other playoff teams. Many were skeptical of them going into the playoffs, but three close[r] wins later, they were Super Bowl champions.)
Another interesting stat: the Sixers are #2 in the league in opponent FG% allowed. Guess who is #1? Their opponents tonight, the Raptors. I haven't seen any Raptors games, but I'm shocked that any team with Calderon and Bargnani can be playing good defense.
Looked up Turner's rebounding numbers. According to Hoopsdata, he currently leads all shooting guards in DRR (19.9) and TRR (11.7).
Hawes is by far the most irreplaceable - as soon as he wears down or gets hurt - and he will - Season is over
as soon as he wears down or gets hurt
Or reverts to playing like he did last year.
Derek and I talked about this during the show last year, this whole thing hinges on Brand and Hawes being healthy and productive enough to essentially split the entire 48 minutes at the five, plus Brand's time at the four. They either need to be able to count on Voose for up to 20 minutes on some nights (probably this week), or they need to get another big who can join this rotation on a somewhat regular basis. I like Kenyon Martin when he's eligible to come back stateside. In the short term, I don't think there's really a free agent out there who fits the bill.
Just a footnote about the Raptors defense this year. I think that early on when you have a defensive coach like Dwane Casey it becomes a mindset for the player hence the uptick in opponents low FG % against.I would agree that Calderon and Bargnani certainly are not defensive minded players. I do agree that Thad's defense is much better so far this year than I have seen. I am really happy with the way the Sixers have defended this year and I believe that it can get even better under Collins.
Defensive mined or not - they are showing effort (I'm watching the Nets/Raptors replay from last night right now) Calderon is an athletic point guard with good court vision, neither brand nor hawes are a good defensive matchup for Bargnani, and whoever is guarding him will be pulled away from the basket defensively.
DeRozen was great 2 games ago, and horrid last night, (which hurt my fantasy team as well as his team some)
Did you just call Calderon athletic?
Yup, but there's a way to take advantage of him (that the sixers wont do) by posting him up with a stronger point guard...
He's pretty much always been a complete defensive liability. I think you can pick and choose how you attack him. I'd like to see Jrue in the post, we'll probably see it once.
Still early in the game I'm watching but Williams posted him up pretty easily - but only once...the nets seem to avoid going into the low post, not sure if that's their m.o, or just something they're doing in this game cause of Okurs back spasms, but I think feeding spencer and elton early could be a good idea too...4th qtr jodie is important too...the ratpros are sometimes a bit slow on their rotations
Jose, can he see! 9.7 A last year. Career: 7.0 A
.486 FG/.876 FT - easy to incorporate. Nice player.
Defensively, you put him on weakest small.
I've wanted 6ers to pick him or Lowry up for awhile now.
That raptors 3d thing is really distracting
Bargnani - quite the flopper
Gerald Wallace bad?
IF Hawes and Brand are the two most important and least replaceable dudes for this team this year...doesn't it make it that much more important to get them some minutes off and use guys like Battie, Brackins, V8 (if healthy, they kept checking his back during timeouts last night) and maybe even Allen during blowouts?
The only problem with this 8-man rotation IMO is that if (when?) someone gets hurt, they really have noone to replace them with. Vucevic might be able to do well in limited minutes, i am encouraged by his early play, so he might help lessen the burden on Hawes and Brand later on. But other than him there is noone dependable.
Other than injuries i don't think this kind of tight rotation is that much of a problem in terms of stamina. This is not a regular 8man rotation that teams with little depth use. Those teams wear out their starters and give little playing time on all of the 3 reserves for the most part. This 8 guys can almost equally split the minutes in various combinations so that they won't play too much on a per game basis. So far they are all between 35.8 (Holiday) and 22.2 (Meeks) which i think each of the players should be able to sustain without a drop off in performance.
On a side note, the Sixers are currently 2nd in offensive efficiency and 3rd in defensive efficiency. I wonder how long they can keep the offensive brilliance up.
Has any team ever had 8 players score in double figures before? If Doug sticks to this 8-man rotation all year the Sixers may have a chance.
Yes. '74-'75 Lakers (30-52), '79-'80 Celtics (61-21), '90-'91 Bucks (48-34)... just a few examples. Research at basketball-reference.com will provide more.
I'll be there tonight. Hopefully there won't be too much of a dip in atmosphere.
Not sure what the actual attendance was last night, but I predict at least a 25% drop
i read somwhere that it was 19,408 last night
OK, so we'll set the over/under at 14556. I'll take under.
The unders take it, barely:
14,522
Iowa Caucus-close. But you win, fair & square.
Will be in the bottom 10 for home attendance this year probably
$17.76 tix, the pull of dollar dogs, liberal issuance of complementaries by mktg dept ("do you want a block for your group?"), a 1st place team (yes indeed), Sat. night ... gimme the 'over' on ANNOUNCED number.
I’ll see you again soon with more vacation news and photographs. Have a great beginning of the week, friends!