The Sixers are looking to finish off a perfect 3-0 road trip against the new look Toronto Raptors (1-4) tonight north of the border. Let's celebrate with a game thread.
Good news: power has been restored. Bad news: cable is out, so no Internet connection. Great news: DirecTV dish suffered no damage.
The tip is at 7pm, this is your game thread. I'll be here throughout (on my iPad) join me if you're ready for 4-2 in this early season.
Ah - you bought the fancy ipad with the wireless didn't ya :)
Lowry isn't playing tonight - advantage sixers
something to keep your eye on, wright, jrue, thad and evan all played 35+ minutes last night
So for those who watched last night, did Jrue look better than Rondo? Collins is kind of letting him play the Rondo role now (minus the Hall of Famers around him) jrue needs to cut down on the turnovers quickly, though.
He looked way better than Rondo, to me. But mostly because he's more versatile and more of a threat at things Rondo isn't. Rondo was dishing last night, but it was almost quiet I thought, after it was over. Jrue was magnificent last night on both ends of the floor.
Yes, his turnovers were of the maddening variety (though some weren't of his doing), but he's growing every single mintue of every single game.
I'd like to extend a bit of credit for that to coaching too.
7 more turns last night. You must love that. Rondo had a pretty good game on the O-side but couldn't guard him for the most part - or at all really. You pointed out once that RR is not a very good man-to-man defender, and you're right. Jrue was a genius with dribble against the Celtics -he never seems to over dribble. Still looked to pass though.
Really want to see the same selfless type execution that occurred last night to repeat itself. That was a sight to see for many reasons.
No telling what to expect though, tuning in to find out can be quite unpredictable with this bunch so far. Here's to hoping...
So it seems like Phil Jackson should now be known as Billy Martin the second?
Is he going back to LA? Guy really loves a challenge, huh?
Lots of reports leaking out that it's his job to give up and that he's already contacting potential assistants to come back with him...
The Lakers weren't going to NOT hire a big name - for a variety of reasons.
Though you can't learn the triangle fast - and steve nash is kind of useless in the triangle isn't he?\
Can dwight pass?
Wonder if he'd scrap the triangle with this group. Nash would essentially stand in the corner and hit threes.
I think to be good this season he'll have to - takes a long time to learn and howard and nash aren't going to learn it
Damn A&M learn to play defense
Oh - see - there you go
Raptors feed in HD for me.
Glad you're back in the confines and comforts of home. Nothing like good ol' home. You better not jinx this winning streak.
Lowry in a suit is a pleasant sight. That guy kills us.
Let's Go!
What channel is this on? CSN is playing tennis. I just got Fios.
Comcast network dont have fios so i dont know the number
I found it. Fios does carry CSN in philly.
Aaaaaaand we're off....Lavoy loses the tip.
ET initiating the first possession. But play was designed for Jrue off the screen for the J all the way.
Jrue off the curl, good.
Thad or whoever has to stay glued to Bargnani.
Come on, put a fucking body on the rook.
Spencer coming in quick.
Thad J.
wright 3
D3!
Bang. Wright from the corner. Nice find by ET
Phew. Hawes bailed out on the sissy drive.
Spencer w/ the fake, drive, and foul. Two shots, it's perplexing how bad he is at free throws but can knock down 20 footers.
Bullshit call there. He was out of control.
Jrue to the stripe.
Jrue to the line. Keep going to the post, kid.
They're free.
Spencer with another fake, drive, and finish this time.
Good up-fake Thad. He's fouled going to the line. Good job.
Atta boy, Thad.
I'd sure like to see Evan follow up his performance last night with one similar. Or even close would suffice.
Get your mess together and get this lead.
Thad brick. ugh
Good find by Jrue, brick by Thad. Doubling Hrue
Jrue does struggle when double teams come though.
First turn for Jrue.
Not sure why they keep sending screeners to Jrue on the sideline, makes it easy to double. Isolate him and let him beat Calderon off the dribble.
He had no trouble beating Rondo, you know he can get by Jose.
They've got to score, or at least shoot better.
Hawes with a charge.
Man, Ivey is playing too many minutes.
Ivey played good last night. Like to see him add a spark.
I don't mind his game, but he's not a rotational player on a good team.
I'm with you, but Wayns has not looked well at all in his limited burn. Overmatched.
Yeah, they need a legit backup point.
Sissy J
Hawes putback.
Spencer helped them eek it closer to close the quarter here.
Looks like they need to find their legs and get them under them. Long way to go, have to be much better than they have been.
Phi 20, TOR 26 after 1. Need to make a few simple djustments and calm down.
Perfect play for that three, but a miss
Good inside pass Ivey to Allen who then assisted Spencer's made J.
Spencer to the line. He's hustling his ass off.
Hawes is in better shape, gotta give him that.
NYoung with the too long continuation! and one!
Good job on the drive by Nick for the plus one.
Good defense. Ugh they got o-board. Good team d though.
Nick silky J.
Good D Ivey and good pass up ahead over the top.
Great job by this unit. Settled things on the defensive end and caught up.
Got the lead, now keep it please.
swaggy 3
I would expect some of these guys from this unit to play more than usual minutes due to the extended run by some of the starters last night.
NYoung for 3!!
Young smoking hot.
NYoung from the foul line J. Let's go...
24-7 run. Pretty much with no starters on the floor.
Is Jermaine O'Neal really that hungry?
Ha, thought I was the only one that noticed that.
"Filet of Phalanges" served by waiter Bargnani.
NYoung has been hustling on the defensive end too.
Almost halfway through, we're winning this quarter 16-3.
Man's board by Thad.
Jrue and Evan back in. Heck of a run for Ivey.
Turner and Jrue back in. Want to see them really aggressive for the rest of the half.
Hawes has been cleaning the shit out of the defensive glass.
Got blown by there though...
jrue and 1
JRUE+1!!!!
Jrue taking the near 7 footer for the and-one!!
thad
Thad clean-up dunk!!! Let's go guys ..... yeah!!!
Thad!
Good find of ET by Jrue. ET fade-back baseling 8 footer. good.
Jrue with a nice pass out of the double finding ET.
Beautiful 2nd quarter!
Jrue off the dribble J! Man...
JRUE.
Awwwww, catch that Turner...
Ugh. Butterfingers. That's not Jrue's turn.
They gave it to Jrue.
They'll give that one to him as we'll, not his fault.
27-7 quarter so far. 3 more min of the same.
That's not Jrue's turn either. Lavoy w/ a bad pass.
Come on guys, finish.
That turn was on him. Ugh.
Not a good attempt at an entry pass Jrue. Need better than that. That one had no chance of getting thru.
sissy jumper
Spence J. He's on fire.
Two for one here. Guess not....
Well, Jrue 4 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jrue43!!!!
Hats off to the subs setting the tone defensively and offensively to start that 2nd quarter there. Picked up by the starters that trickled back in.
Spencer Hawes was the catalyst at both ends. Reminiscient of the first game of the year vs Denver.
Well - that's probably going to be the lowest scoring quarter of the year for any NBA team - good defense or the raptors are truly that awful?
Defense was awesome. Mostly by the bench guys.
Yeah, I could tell from the +/- on the box score who was building that lead ;)
Just spent 600 bucks on my dog - no way i can justify the league pass yet - hoping by January for at least the second portion of the system
a little of both
PHI 52, TOR 33 at the half.
Up 19 without much from Jrue. I'll take it. 32-7 in the second quarter. Great job by the second unit.
32-7 quarter. lol
Don't let the unis fool ya, Toronto is one soft bunch. Jus' standin' around, takin' turns shootin' Js. 1 half-assed shot & done. Missing Lowry, Philly tough and a catalyst. Spence & Swag took their heart, turned 'em into 2Q sissies.
You gotta wonder what Colangelo needs to do to get fired
Probably sleep with his biographer.
Is that the CIA guy or the incoming CEO guy who got fired (I don't read news - just headlines)
CIA
Yeah they've been treadin' water for a long while. It's not happenin' up north.
He makes some AWFUL decisions
24 million to Jason Kapono might take the cake.
NBA TV reporting that the lakers job is phil jacksons to take
Isn't that pretty much the case with any open coaching position in the league?
I wouldn't want him coaching the sixers personally - he just rubs me the wrong way - I know it's all zen but he comes off as a pretentuous twat to me...
The best joke I heard was someone suggest Stan Van Gundy :)
Keep this defensive pressure and tenacity up. Good viewing seeing that kind of effort.
Here we go...
Got to hit that Lavoy.
thad to wright
D3!
Should've been a Thad dunk there
Like that. Nice pass, ET
nice pass evan
Great look and pass ET to Thad. Slam!
Dorell deflection, ends in a Lavoy steal. Dorell draws foul at other end.
Catch that Evan... come on
Come on, Turner. They'll give that one to Jrue as well.
Yup. 5 turns, should be 2.
Jrue should have shot that. Ended in a Wright missed 3.
Raptors dunk. Down to 13. Goot TO Doug, he took two good timeouts last night.
Jrue should've shot that. Turner dropped the pass again, runout on the other end.
Come on, they're outscoring us by 6 almost midway thru. And a turnover. come on guys...
10-point game.
Bargs 3. Down to 10. Put Spencer back in, he's coming.
Thad wow
Great pass. Needed that hoop.
Anderson drives, Lavoy doesn't slide over to protect the rim. shit
Holdiay w/ a bullet pass, Lavoy missed. Thad misses an open J.
Get it back... Dorell misses. sheesh
ET steal! Dorell for an and-one!!!!
Yes. Huge play by Wright. Hit the freebie.
Shit bailout three...
NYoung with the savvy play, he was still behind the line no? ... 4 pt play right?
Wow. Was that a three?
Ugh toe on the line on replay, fooled the shit out of me til a saw it on replay ...
Stops.
Ok lead is 12, push it back to 15 by the end of the quarter.
We're losing this quarter by 7 right now. Come on, just under 3 left. Finish strong here with a comeback for the 3rd.
Dorell draws a foul.
Wright needs to shoot that three. At least he got the foul.
Come on, wake up.
Good help D from Dorell, they kick it back out to his man, 3. shit
Good ass steal Jrue. Good ass FINISH JRUE!!!! yeah.........
Jrue is pissed. Big play.
Good D from NYoung. Spencer board.
Jrue kick out ... 3 sec violation? ugh
4 on 5 and they get called for an offensive 3 second violation. Come on.
PHI 69, TOR 62 after 3.
Bad third quarter. Need to come out with some intensity to start the fourth.
We lost that quarter by 12 damn points. Clean that up please.
Just dig deep and find some legs to finish this one.
Cause you're gonna need it on the jumpshots, being reluctant to use even more leg to drive into the lane.
Dig keep here squad, what do ya say...
*deep
Nick J, ugh a foul called before the shot
Ivey running the point even with Turner in there.
Don't press here. Ivey o-board!!!
Don't press here either. 4 on the shot clock.
D3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WRIGHT!!!
Longhorn tough bound by Royal.
Spencer with no legs on that one. ugh
wright!!!!
D3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah
Yeah!!! Wright again.
Ugh turnover Thad...
Where did Dorell foul Bargs there? I sure didn't see it, looked like a cheapie to me..
Play good D. like that, Bargs throwing it to the crowd.
Put Jrue in for Turner.
Yeah, I'd like to see Jrue play the 2 here with Ivey running point.
Ivey!
Royal with cheese!
Good pass ET. Thad gets the foul call. Make em Thad..
Up 12 w/ 7 to go... come on
Jrue in to guard derozan.
Play some more Snoop Dogg.. we got a stop
thad
ET with good D. Score here.
Yes Thad easily done. ha
Raftery: "Kiss off the GLASS!"
Nice bounce between the double to Thad.
Man, take a look at Lavoy's line.
But weirdly, but not so weirdly, he's a +7 proving he def hasn't killed us either when in there.
Hold the ball EVan. Good D evan and others.
Evan J! no, a damn turnover by way of travel on somebody... ugh
5 on 4 and cant score
2 straight turns by Turner. Ugh.
Yeah, Jrue.
Jrue dagger!!!!! 4 min to glory.....
Tech on Demar
Huge Layup by jrue!
Turner shooting T's with Swag and Jrue on the floor?
Yeah, I don't get that. Charity, I guess.
Agreed
Jrue is having a great year it looks like he's finally taking the next step
A potential, looking-likely 3-0 road trip to start the season without Bynum? I'll take it. These last two games has shown that team that dominated in preseason. Just taking games over, like tonight in that 2nd quarter. Talk about lockdown.
that shot
NYoung fading away, finally hits one of those.
Lol
Swag fades, perfect control even off balance.
36 bench pts to their 8. heh
Six turns on Jrue.
So that makes 3 legit ones? right?
Yeah.
Holiday looking much stronger this year which I have harped on for awhile. As key to his drives as Turner's jumper sinking is to his.
Turner is a vulture for these intentional foul freebies at the end of games.
Well he's shooting great from the line at least so far this year, so I'm ok with it until he comes back to earth in that department.
He shot 3 techs the other night earlier this week. Two of them with what you'd call more worthy guys by way of percentage on the floor. Looked token to me, like he wants him to work on his reps, and also showing confidence in the kid, to motivate him even more.
In other words, an intended vulture.
Yeah, I think there might be something to him wanting to shoot all the free-throws so he can work on his form in the middle of games. He is shooting free throws better than last year, at least.
Or he just wants to pad his stats. I dunno.
If he starts missing, Doug will not let him pad stats anymore, if that is what he is doing
7 turns, 4 legit. Ugh.
I don't think we should read too much into this game, 2nd night of a back to back, in Canada no less. We got the win, and we're 4-2. I'm happy
on him or not, when you're consistently getting more than six turnovers then the blame can't be pegged elsewhere. Not a bad thing, just a chemistry and comfort level deal.
Or not. 2 games in a row.
He leads the league in turnovers, so yes.
Except you didn't reference stats, but rather blame.
Vulture back to the line :)
His pre-shot routine and demeanor looks consistent. If he sinks them at a high rate maybe it's his reward, like Collins letting him initiate off of d-boards last year. If it takes a carrot, go for it.
He's having a decent year
The 9 or 10 guys getting minutes are to be commended. They're competing their asses off. Good, solid finishing-up win on an early road trip. Good coaching, good playing, good executing, good ass effort from everyone.
Good, good sign this early in the season. Reminiscient of their exhibition forays.
You just indirectly gave Evan Turner a compliment :)
Truce for the year, I was a dick to you during the preseason so my bad on that. Won't happen again, no more getting heated over basketball.
Cool. But see, reception is the key, I actually was giving the 'team' a direct compliment. Turner included. It's never been personal here, concering him, or you. Never will be. I just want, and have opinions (and many criticisms) on what I think is best for the team. That's all, nothing more nothing less.
I will take your word for it, let's have a fun season
PHI 93, TOR 83 Final.
4-2 on the year, back at it Monday night.
POTG goes to Hawes, with Nick Young and Ivey also getting serious consideration.
You can't stand him right ;-).
He played great defense and got 12 boards and 4 assists on 2nd game of a back to back. Give him a little break :-)
I didn't say anything bad about Turner, I don't think. Mentioned the 2 turns in a row in he fourth. And also the two passes he botched that went as turns for Jrue, but overall, he played a decent game. 8 points on 7 FGA and 5 FTA is poor efficiency, but nought he was definitely a plus on the floor tonight.
evan didnt play great on O, played good D for the most part though. i hope it was something about the ball and floor being slippery tonight cause ET especially was slipping and had butter fingers. i wish he'd step into some threes off drive and kick, he hit two that looked pretty true last night
The important thing for me is that when his jumper isn't falling and the defense can collapse on him, he doesn't start gunning and forcing the issue. If he can have his mind set to taking what the defense gives him, working off of Jrue, and testing the water with a few jumpers, then this should be a smooth season.
Wow, Nick Young was +25 and Royal was +22...good for them, we needed a big bench contribution tonight after the starters played so many minutes last night.
Royal with cheese! Underrated game for him - 8 points on 3 shots, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 steals, 0 turnovers, and very solid D and hustle in 19 mins off the bench.
48 assists on 74 made fgs the last two games. Really like seeing that. Good ball movement and not much selfishness.
Hope he gives Thad, Jrue, and Evan the day off if they are even practicing at all today. Their legs have to be weary from all the minutes in both games of the back to back.
Collins' best coaching is done BEFORE Sixers take the court. He's a master at pre-game Psych 101, learned at the esteemed Players University, refined at Network School of Broadcasting. In-game work is tenacious but questionable at times in its tension and impulsive reactivity.
Early take: '12-'13 Sixers are scrappers, like recent versions, "fighters" as Jrue has posited, with more mistake-erasing firepower from deep than in previous seasons. Because of their individual game preparedness and their characteristic pugnacity, they'll feast on the lower portion of NBA franchises, will meet problems defeating upper rung 8 to 10 who can match their competitive intensity and depth.
[Evaluation formed without entering Bynum as a playing factor due to the fact that he's not playing, nor is there any indication that he'll soon been jumpin', pumpin' and showing Philadelphia somethin'.]
The Sixers are going to look good because of their easy schedule. 8 of their next 10 games are against teams that aren't expected to make the playoffs. They're going to struggle when Bynum comes back.
Should we be worried about the Knicks? They might be the 2nd best team in the EAST this year.
The Knicks have been the best team in the NBA so far, but i don't think they can keep this up. Their age will inevitably show up later in the season and Stoudemire's return might screw up their newly built chemistry (and spacing with Anthony at PF). I think the Knicks benefited from an easy schedule (only 4 games so far, whereas half the league has 6 or 7) and a prolonged training camp due to the postponed Nets game.
Knicks loaded with know-how, confidence it generates; long season attrition, a question. Woodson has their respect and attention.
Money on table, Boston will wake up, barring injuries to any of Big 3.
Team in Miami is hard to contain, could beat most others while wearing Tom McAn's.
Brooklyn has potential nice balance of scoring and boarding, defense their achilles. Secret weapon, Reggie Evans.
Return of Rose will bloom sweet for Chicago, even with changes from last year; still D-in' it up.
Sixers front office getting worried about Andrew Bynum rehab according to hoopshype.com/rumors
I believe Bynum knee is a little more hurt than the front office was letting on & I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see Bynum on the floor until next yr sometime maybe Jan/Feb after all-star break.
link?
The actual source of the article is Mitch Lawrence in the New York Daily News - more credibility than Vescey - but not sure how much he knows about the sixers here. Then again, ownership lives in New York (which I find bothersome) so who knows
Jrue Holiday -
"growing every single minute of every single game"
"genius with dribble"..."never seems to overdribble"
Facts: Leads league in turnovers with 34. (Runner-up, James Harden, 30) Assist/TO ratio: 1.68
Above voices are welcome to return to earth. Bonus: The Sixers play down here.
And your 'runner up' in your counting stat category with no context is the early season MVP in some eyes
So maybe you're over exaggerating the fact that it's a problem.
Haven't seen Harden; know he scored a ton in 1st 2 gms post-trade. (What numbskull considers an MVP at this juncture?) Have seen most of Jrue context. The turnovers are real, all too frequent. But that's secondary.
My main address was the unchallenged sentimental, unrealistic comments regarding Holiday, productive but sloppy point guard. As a fan, not into free rides on love trains.
Maybe you're overdefending the fact that those comments were posted.
You better watch out, my boy L.Sanders is coming to town. He looks like he finally is becoming a solid player while taking Sammy and Udoh's minutes away.
No worry here, spence - I'm not tryin' to get a shot past him. Have read some positives on him recently. Apparently, The Colonel is showing a ferocity this year that you've long predicted. Let's see Monday night. Sam will be on the bench fiddling with latest gadget.
Yeah, if only we had Jameer. Jrue is turning it over too much, but at the expense of creating offense (3rd in the league in Assists/Game), which this team sorely needs without Bynum.
There's two reasons to be alright with this. First, he's had a few charges go against him, but he's trying to get to the rim. I can live with that. Many of his shots last year were pseudo-turnovers. The live-ball turnovers are what you really want to avoid.
Also, those turnovers you reference can be a misleading number. For instance, last night's number was three too many (He hits Turner in the hands twice last night, Jrue's turnovers though. Lavoy gets stuck and throws a horrible pass to Jrue, which he half handles but then loses, also Jrue's turnover).
He's going to have to take care of the ball better, but again, he's never come close to having this sort of freedom/responsibility. So he should get better and some of this bad luck should normalize. Oh yeah, Bynum would certainly help the degree of difficulty.
You're a Jrue romantic.
Any turnover: scoring opportunity down the drain. If Jrue is attributed, Jrue is accountable. (Each of my traffic tickets had extenuating circumstances, yet the darn DMV assigned me points. Imagine that.)
With 6 of 82 precincts reporting, Holiday's ORtg 99, DRtg 99 [100 is avg.], WS O.6. Each number represents lowest of his career to date, in early contradiction of PR drumbeat. The next 76 "trombones" of JH directorship, in whole, will sound loudly, one way or another.
The young man has talent; I'm not yet sure if indivisibly helming an offense - as Collins has assigned - is his forte.
OK, so you don't understand how to interpret these stats. Defensive rating is points allowed per 100 possessions, so you want the lowest number. 99 is the best number of his career.
And win shares accumulate over a whole season, so of course it's at the lowest right now. He's on pace to smash it though, because his win shares per 48 minutes is at .115 when it was at .94 and .92 the last two years.
I believe in his talent, and think that so far he's done a nice job keeping the offense without Bynum. 99 is the same offensive rating he had last year, and now he's doing it up to this point with a bunch of shooters who have frankly struggled. Context is everything here. There are the signs that he'll get better, whether you believe them or not. And even if the team rating improves only a little bit, he's playing with a weak supporting cast. Nobody should expect this group of players to be Top 10 in offense.
Can you give me half-credit, teach? Because his offensive number - 99 - IS below average. And his 1st 2 yrs WERE slightly better offensively (100, 104) than year 3 & play to date this season, at least according to one advanced statistic scale. I participate in class, don't I? And I humbly appreciate your corrections. C'mon, have a heart.
Has anybody read what Spencer did this offseason? E.Turner needs to get on the same regimen. He is so much quicker and agile, even more so than the beginning of last year.
Hopefully our organization's patience pays off with this investment. Him, Thad , Evan and Jrue may live up to their salaries yet.
If Turner wasn't ball hungry he'd be a ball boy. His out-of-the-gate speed reminds me of Barney Google's bow-legged horse, Spark Plug. His doughiness brings "Hot Plate" Williams to mind.
Spence is in good shape. Shouldn't all 24 yr old pros be there? Easy at that age if you don't slouch and pig-out. It's called doing your job.
"Spence is in good shape. Shouldn't all 24 yr old pros be there? Easy at that age if you don't slouch and pig-out. It's called doing your job."
Absolutely! ET has to lay off the late night pizza urges and work out with Spence. They probably don't share the same political beliefs............
Why not? They're in the same 1% income bracket (adjusted gross income of $343,927 or more).
Pretty easy to say the heat, bulls, knicks, and pacers are all better than us right now.
However when/if bynum comes back, i believe we can leap frog the bulls, as long as rose is out. Well be better than the pacers (with bynum) until granger returns.
Thus i could envision 4th seed. But that requires bynum coming back soon. Spence wont be able to carry this production throughout the season as evidenced by last year.
i read somewhere the pacers were struggling. granger out, downgraded at backup pg from collison to dj augustine. i still like their squad though and think Paul George is gonna be an all star eventually.
The Grizzlies completely dominated the Heat yesterday. The Heat had huge problems defending their "post presence + three point shooters" show yesterday. Can't wait for Bynum to start playing and provide the Sixers with the same dimension.
P.S. Nobody talks about them but the Grizzlies are neck and neck with the Knicks so far as the best teams early in the season. If they can stay healthy i think they are going to be a major force out west.
Remember how happy everyone was at the Bynum press conference? Yeah, me too.
The reported January target time frame for Bynum's return is disappointing, but somewhat expected at this point. The article says it could take 1 to 4 weeks for his conditioning after he's back practicing next month, so maybe Bynum could be back sooner if he can get in shape quickly?
Do you have a link to the story?
Not sure on the original source but here's one
http://sulia.com/source/245111/?source=twitter&guid=bc7906ca-a600-42ad-9d91-30cfcb3ef25c
Here you go:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sixerville/Bynum-might-not-return-until-January.html
I don't have faith in him to do anything quickly. It's a bummer.
Amusing new year, at minimum.
I'm glad you think you'll have an amusing new year.
This Bynum news really isn't surprising. Disappointing but not surprising.
I mean, is anyone surprised that the sixers got the shaft in a trade like this?
You got that wrong, chief. I was thinking bigger, all-inclusive. It included even you, sunbeam of Santa Barbara. 2013, don't miss it.
I'd be careful getting all crazy about the long term outlook for the Grizzlies or the Knicks. In a small sample size they are tough ... and the Knicks are a bad matchup for the Sixers ... but at the end of the day neither team has enough defense to be a serious contender.
The Knicks are a lot better on D when Carmelo decides to play defense ... but I'll want to see that for an extended period of time before I'll be sold.
If Mo Speezy is getting serious minutes on a team, eventually they are going to come back to the back because he can't be bothered on the defensive end.
You can't really make any predictions based on 6-8 games - but people will do it anyway.
The knicks still have the Amare Conundrum when he comes back
The Grizzlies aren't really a surprise though. They've been pretty good for a while. The only thing that has kept them frmo truly contending were injuries and if they can stay reasonably healthy this year they can be as good as anyone.
The Jeff Ruland parallels are becoming more and more striking. Ruland played 5 games for the 86-87 Sixers, who still made the playoffs without him behind the emerging Charles Barkley (but lost in the first round). 26 years later, we have Jrue in the Barkley role, Bynum as Ruland, Jason Richardson filling the Cliff Robinson role (the secondary player the Sixers got from the trade), Iguodala filling the Moses role (primary prayer they traded away), Vucevic as Catledge (the secondary player they traded away), Harkless as Harvey Grant (mid-first-round pick they traded away), and one more first-rounder in both trades. I didn't realize until today that the two trades were so structurally similar (Sixers traded 2 players and 2 first-rounders and got 2 players back). I'll just be happy if Bynum plays more than 5 games for this year's Sixers ...
Except that Ruland was never as close to good as Bynum is when healthy.
Dude has bad knees, he was going to miss games this year, he has a history of stalling treatment that could have been done earlier...none of this should surprise anyone
I would put up Ruland's two best full seasons (82-83 and 83-84) against any of Bynum's seasons, especially considering Ruland was the #1 guy in Washington and Bynum was never more than #2A for the Lakers. I do agree that Bynum is better, but not that Ruland wasn't even close to his level.
One big difference between that trade and this one, though, is that Ruland was two seasons removed from a healthy season when the Sixers made that trade, while Bynum just had one of his healthiest seasons. So in that sense, these Sixers are more unfortunate.
So you're going to mark down Bynum because he played with one of the best in the game for most of his career? That's the kind of thinking that makes no sense to me. Bynum would be the #1 option on more than half the teams in the league (when healthy) and you're discounting him cause the Lakers were smart enough to draft him.
Sorry - if that's part of your argument it has no legs
My main argument was a narrow one: that Ruland's best two healthy seasons were as impressive (if not more so) than Bynum's best season. Plenty of players across all sports have flourished as a #2 option but couldn't handle it as a #1 (in the NFL, I call this the "Peerless Price Effect"). If you are optimistic that Bynum will flourish as a #1 option for the Sixers once he is healthy, that is fine -- but that opinion is not based on any hard evidence to this point in his career. Personally, I'll be surprised (but pleasantly so) if he ever averages a 22-12 for the Sixers like Ruland did in his best season.
Agree that at the same age they both were top tier centers. Don't think you can really argue that Bynum was a clearly better center than Ruland comparing them from age 23 to 25. Their teams had different degrees of success, but likewise they had very different teammates.
http://bkref.com/tiny/B6ze2
I used Ruland at 25 becasue I thought it was unfair to compare his 2nd year in the NBA (age 24) when Bynum at age 24 was in his 7th.
The numbers can argue that Bynum was a bit more productive on a per minute basis. But Ruland carried a bad team to the playoffs- which certainly counts for something- sspecially when you look at how his scoring was both more effecient and greater than Bynum despite having to carry a much bigger burden.
Ruland would have made the HOF without the injuries. The Sxiers still made a huge misttake given he was injured well befoer they traded for him. But I don't agree that Bynum was somehow a class above Ruland.
Anyone see the incident that got Cousins suspended?
I hate Cousins and still side with him against Sean Elliot. He's tougher to stomach than Heinsohn.
Here's some video - not on the court though
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/demarcus-cousins-suspended-sean-elliot_n_2115397.html
question, did we give up this year's draft pick in the bynum trade? just looking forward if he doesn't play and it actually ends up being a high pick.
No, but we traded this year's draft pick to get Moultrie.
We gave up a 2014 1st round pick which is lottery protected.
To see it you would have had to be in San Antonio and hung around court bside after the game. It's really something to observe this guy. I actually had hoped the Sixers would draft either Cousins or Turner --- and while the guy seems to have tremendous upside it seems like a cloud just follows him around.
He went back out on the court out of the locker room 20 minutes after the game because he didn't like what an announcer said about him.
Once you get a rep like his, the last thing you need to do is keep giving people reasons to say you are a bad guy. Not sure I get it with him, but kind of like Iverson, he's gonna do what he's gonna do I guess.
Bynum was interviewed on CSN Sportsnight about 30 mins ago. He said he could play if it was the playoffs and the Sixers were chasing a ring like he did in the past with the Lakers. Bynum also said the bruising started in LA while running and doing individual workouts (ie - he did not bang his knee on anything).
j-rich back tonight
real american hawes is also back tonight
What a relief! I was worried he turned Commie or something :)
Jrue I'd assume on Jennings. Who's the best bet to guard Monta? He'd be too quick for Turner and JRich no?
id try jrue on monta and evan on Jennings and just dare Jennings to shoot
JRich secures the tap and fires away. Good.
So anyone have any idea how extension talks will go with Bynum this offseason?
Re-signing a talent like Bynum is a no brainier but considering his injury prone career, is the requisite max contract worth it?
Monta left wide open for the corner three.
Come on Evan.... sloppy turnover
Jrue at the shot clock buzzer.
bad shot jrue
They need to go to ET in the post here early w/ Monta on him just to see if they can exploit it.
Need to tighten the D up mightily. Too many easy looks for MIL.
Sammy gets booed.
Defense is lousy so far. They've come out flat again just like in TOR and BOS.
ET J off a horns play.
So glad to see JRich back out there.
Tighten up the D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! geez
Man, they're on pace for a +30 pt quarter at this rate.
8-8 so far.
JRich is on fire!!!! J is so smooth, silky-like.
BUcks finally misss... ET turns it over though
careless TO there ET
Spencer in for Lavoy. This defense is atrocious. They should be ashamed.
et to thad
Sammy D hasn't lose a step with the stupid goaltending plays
ET good pass for the oop to Thad.
j-rich!
JRICH 360 DUNK
JRich overplays passing lane up top. Steal! 360 dunk! Like that guy... a lot.
Come on Jrue. Be aware son... two the other way and a foul. sheesh Jrue
sit down Evan, another turn and then a bad shot on the way back down
34-26 Bucks. Really bad defense that quarter. Half court D sucked. Transition D was just as bad. Not too many more ways to say it. They blew on that end.
On the other end, senseless and what should be controllable turnovers. Just careless shit.
If it wasn't for Richardson, this game might be over already. Ugly ass quarter, just terrible defense
Hawes with a damn wide open airball. ugh
Jrue drive, dish to Dorell at the arc. BUCKET!
Jrue drive, dish to JRich at the arc. Too long though.
Stop with these silly turnovers. Spencer 3 sec violation.
NYoung steal and finish.
God I hate hawes.
So darn weak with that attempt.
Jrue grabs the ball right out of mid-air off Udrih pass. Heh, he takes it right at Sanders with the left hand. Foul. To the line.
Sweet hesitation two times by Jrue. Finally drives for a layup after the sea parted.
D3!
Wright!!!
And again! Then Holliday! Tie game!!!
Jrue P&R on strong side. Cross court pass to weak side to Dorell. BANG! for 3!
Man, Jrue is getting anywhere he wants with his dribble.
Dorell again layup!!
Jrue! leaving Udrih at the foul line in cement. Left hand finish this time. They have no one that can guard him.
His dribble is a serious weapon this year. That, along with the added spacing from the shooters spotted up.
God, shooting guards that can actually shoot. So foreign, yet so wonderful.
Not a good shot from Dorell there.
JRich steal!
D for 3333333333333333333333333333333
Wright again!!!
Dorell steal b/c of his length.
ET drive... ugh
Turner must be the worse finisher in the nba.
Worst*
Who should have had Jennings there? Three guys collapsed down on Dunleavy when he received the entry pass and Jennings left all alone for a triple. Sheesh
IT was Evan's man, and he's down in the paint gazing at the rim hoping for a rebound. It was a KICKOUT Evan, stay home with your man please!!!
thad
Dammit Ivey, play under control. These turnovers are just flat out senseless. So unforced, nearly every one of them so far.
Turner misses a freebie
Get over the hump before the half. Get this lead and keep it.
Dorell in for Spencer? We're really small here I think.
Ivey, Jrue, ET, Dorell, Thad. wow
Ellis layup. Terrible transition D and matching up there.
Jennings fouled on bad transition D again.
Hey guys, get the EFF BACK!
Sloppy
Woooooow and a collapse to end the half.
Ugh, Jrue w/ a nice pass to cutting Dorell. He missed the pass.
Jennings 3. shit Jrue
Jrue turnover again!!!!!! Jennings layup. SHIT
11 pt lead now, and it was just tied at 48. man......
Fuck you hawes
Jennings 3 again. dammit
Spencer is going to have to step out. Or Jrue has to recover much more quickly. Come on ..... terrible.
Jrue really fucked that one up though and he wasn't even really screened.
Disgusting. Down 12 now. I hope Doug peels the paint off the damn walls just like he was reported to have done down in New Orleans. In-ex-cusable!
Lavoy and Evan are lost in the abyss again.
These turnovers from the supposed two main ball handlers have got to decrease, or just stop altogether. They're turnovers that can be controlled. They're not forced at all. So frustrating.
What the fuck just transpired over the last 2 minutes of the half?
Shitty defense, not getting back and matching up properly, careless turnovers by Ivey, Dorell (charged to Jrue, and Jrue mishandling one in traffic. Jennings hitting 3's off of high ball screens. Getting killed in quick outlet passes by the Bucks.
MIL has 15 fast break pts, shooting 64%, and has 14 free throw attempts already. Recipe for disaster.
They better bring it to start here or they're gonna get blown out of the gym.
Defense can't possibly be that porous again, no?
Evan postup on Monta. kickout to JRich for 3
Evan postup on Monta. Baseline floater.
He gives it right back losing Monta on D.
Turner can't stay with Monta, or Jennings as the first half proved. These two quick guards are a bad matchup for us.
Sheesh, Thad dribbles off his knee.
It is time to start worrying about our young PG's turnovers. 5 again tonight and it's early in the 3rd quarter
Jrue turnover. Jennings layup. Down 15. F me!
Why did we get a delay of game call out of that timeout?
clear path foul, no question
JRich 3!!! come on, got it down to 11. Get this thing back to around 7 or 8 before the end of quarter.
Thad steal!! That was a clear path no?
Let's go 7-0 run, got it to 9 already.
sissy floater
6 TOs for Jrue
And Dunleavy with the rally killer three
Another Bucks turnover. O-foul on Sanders. 9-0 run. come on bucket here.
Shit, turnover on us. An o-foul on Jrue?
Why no D-Wright yet this quarter?
Bad shot by Thad, it drops. 14-3 run. Down 5.
O-foul on Bucks!!!! come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jrue to thad
Good dish Jrue to Thad inside. 3 pt game.
Spencer wouldn't know a hard foul even if it was that headband on his head. Dammit
Back up to 8 after Udrih J. ugh
NYoung bailout 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! needed that
j-rich
NYoung steal, JRich 3!!!!!!
Thad block!!! ugh JRich rims a 3 out.
Holding for last shot to tie.Jrue BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOLY FUCK ITS A GAME AGAIN HOLY FUCKING SHIT
When did J-Rich get so good?!?
Wow - way to tie the game! Thad, JRich, Swaggy, Jrue & even Spence stepped it up!
Won that quarter by 12. Gonna be a battle til the very end, I can feel it. NYoung came in for ET, but still no Dorell. Maybe he closes the full quarter here (or he's dinged up?)
If you want anyone on this team taking a contested fadeaway, it's Nick Young.
sissy jumper
Get this lead please.Spencer J on cue. Let's go!!!
Jrue and JRich resting to start the 4th. Ivey and ET back in. Key stretch here.
no way this lineup holds a lead
You are correct
Spencer frustrates me just as much as Turner does when he drives. arrrrgggghhhhhh
Jennings eating up Ivey now. We're still lax on getting back on D. Bailed out that time by an Ivey steal.
Spencer J.
Dorell steal. Ugh, Ivey screwed up that break royally. Ends with a Dorell miss from corner 3.
Turner always sticks out like a sore thumb when he plays. He's doesn't look like he belongs there out on the floor with the rest of the guys. He's just not in the same realm of athleticism. Whenever he goes up for a dunk, I'm always worried he'll miss.
Get Jrue back in. NOW
And get Turner out too.
all things considered, I am ok being down only after that dogshit lineup played half of the 4th quarter
What was that story they told about J-Rich getting fired up? Was it a Philly fan who called him washed up?
no a bucks fan did when he was with the magic
Jrue back in. ET out.
Royal layup. Down one. Stops!!!
7 motherfucking TOs on Jrue, again
Dammit Jrue Holiday!!! Just a fucking careless pass to Hawes there. Layup on other end. Dammit Jrue.
Tell me Jrue isn't turnover prone. That pass to Spence was almost #8. Getting to the line though
Get. This. Lead.
SPencer brick from deep. Not the shot we want big guy.
Monta floater. ugh
8 now, that is just not acceptable
Jrue WTF man!!!! Just a dogshit of a pass to JRich there. Come the EFF ON MAN!!! That's just terrible and really why we arent leading this game. Can't give away so many possessions.
Turnstile D
x2
Jrue w/ last 2 shots blocked. It's over, Dunleavy 3.
11-2 MIL run, Mother F me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jrue came in and sank them. Growing pains?
No idea how Collins doesn't see his errant passing all training camp and doesn't immediately get a backup PG.
It's pretty fucked up when Jrue makes me almost want to say I'd like to see Turner in the game. That's bad coming from me.
What's so sad to me is Jrue was just dominating this game at different points. He couldn't be stopped, but he sure managed to stop himself. Pitiful when you look at it as a whole.
Really disappointing third quarter. I only had Tom McGinnis for this one so those of you that actually watched will have better insight, but...seemed to me like Jrue was a big part of the 3rd q comeback...but then he sat for waaaay too long in the 4th, imo...he and J-Rich both.Our two best players tonight.Then Royal Ivey getting crunch time minutes in a closegame?Hurt them when he blew a layup with Sixers down 3, Bucks got a quick layup on the other end and we never got close again.
Questionable rotations from DC in the fourth, from my perspective, but perhaps simply exposing a real weakness in the backcourt roster...Turner was struggling with the backcourt matchups and never got in an offensive rhythm, despite some nice first half dishes, so I understand not wanting him out there...but would have preferred a sturggling Turner over Royal I think?
Jrue just crumbled upon being reinserted...Bucks started trapping/swarming and he panicked...
Dispiriting loss for sure, but still gotta love the last six minutes of the third, and more generally, the role that Richardson played tonight
Just think, the Bucks have 23 motherfreakin' turnovers. We only have 15. We're gonna lose by 9 or so. That hurts when the other team has that many turnovers.
Our lowest scoring quarter was the 2nd with 24 pts. That is, until we laid an absolute egg in the 4th with only 13 lousy pts.
Tough one to take, first bad loss of the year.
I think the Knicks losses were worse because they looked totally outmatched. This game, they gave away their opportunities to win and that's correctable that's correctable to a degree.
That's why I feel it's the first bad loss of the year. The Knicks just straight whipped their ass and you could tell they were outmatched. That's not a bad loss to me. Giving away your opportunities to win as you mentioned makes it a bad loss.
Agreed, eddies. This stung a lot worse than the two Knicks games because entering the fourth I was anticipating a win-and because that win was there to be had right up until the final minutes, but slipped away thanks to bad shots and poor decisions
Straight garbage. That's how we played... that's who we are.
Nice to see J Rich back, not nice to see the same old mediocre Sixers, playing their same old game.
Just being average right now would be an improvement. Zero heart, zero identity.
Jrue is turning the ball over at a league high rate and he should have exceeded 10 tonight for an ugly double-double. He's passing into tight windows when he just doesn't have the expertise to do so. He's passing while jumping and off balance. He's passing away form his momentum which gives defenders a better chance to get their hands in the lane.
All of that is not technical but there is a greater underlying mental hurdle he needs to overcome: stop passing the ball where YOU want it to be, and put it where the RECIPIENT wants it to be. If you can't do that, then the window isn't there.
Good point on where THEY want it vs where Jrute wants it...we all want Jrue to be great and his great moments thus far have been very exciting but the worries that I and others have expressed about some of his deficiencies as THE primary ballhandler clearly can't be put to rest yet...he has had six or more turns in every game but one!Exception being one of the losses to NY, in which he had four turnovers while playing his fewest minutes of the season. In the last two games, the assists have dried up a littleas well
He needs to establish a comfort level with his teammates, as you say...needs to get them the ball the way they need to get it in order to be successful...I've seen some comments to the effect that 'that to wasn'tJrue's fault, teammate x dropped the pass'...well guess what...it's the pg's job to deliver guys passes that they can handle...if Jrue's passes are consistently dropped by the intended recipients, that is JRUE'S responsibility to correct
The flipside to this is that Jrue has not run an offense since the me-first high school days. I really have to force myself to remember that he's only 22... better days ahead. Better, more experienced days ahead.
It's true. Also, I made an error in my last reply...was only looking at the past six games. Jrue's season low turnover game was actually opening night against Denver. He turned it over just three times in forty one minutes of play. So, actually, there's a three turnover game and a four turnover game to place alongside five games with six turns or more
He IS young and these HAVE been his firstseven games in a radically expanded playmaking role...not to mention that they've been played without any big man who is a legit offensive threat..hopefully the comfort level we speak of comes in time. Hopefully Jrue adjusts to being the focal point of opposing defenses in tightly contested fourth quarters. Hopefully, erstwhile franchise savior A. Bynum is looking less erstwhile and more saviory a few months from now, and he and Jrue develop real chemistry
Those ready to annoit our boy as an elite, ALL Star type point would be wise to let things unfold a little longer
People are completely overeacting to this loss. We came out flat defensively and played pretty poorly on that end for the majority of the game but at the end of the day it's only one game. At least we gotta Detroit next.
Game story (with Jrue Holiday video on turnovers): Sixers can't make the Bucks stop here:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/sixers-can-t-handle-the-bucks/article_190aae58-c401-599e-bdea-5b68fcb6a8be.html
Last night's Ace Of Spades: Jrue Holiday, for personifying both a turnstile and a PEZ dispenser in just 37 minutes.
At least Richardson was ready at the front tip; cool fireworks.
@spencer is hired: "Snatch" Sanders still has some work to do. Larry Luv 8, long & lean - longs for an offensive game, leans to foul trouble.
It's worth mentioning that Jrue's current streak of 4 straight games of 7 turnovers or more is the longest such streak in the basketball-reference.com database, which goes back to 1985-86. Only three other players in the last 22 years even had a streak of 3 or more games of 7 turnovers or more (Shawn Kemp, Ray Allen, Monta Ellis).
Also, if Jrue kept up his turnover pace (6.0 per game), it would be the highest in NBA history since turnovers were introduced (previous record: 5.0 per game by Maravich in 1977-78).
Turnovers aside, if Jrue keeps average 19-9 on good shooting, he'll still be a strong candidate for the All-Star game.
...however, if Holiday is invited floor level fans will be required to wear lightweight body armor and ballistic helmets.
well played
Sixers story: Collins wants more from Allen, Hawes:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/sixers-counting-on-allen-hawes/article_7acbca39-5f82-549f-bccc-6c9eae73cff4.html
Harkless had 10 points, 7 rebounds and 4 block today in 19 minutes against the Knicks. Vucevic had a double double (12 points, 10 rebounds).
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(crying)
How could you be...
Hey everyone, the good news is my Internet connection finally came back tonight. Bad news is I started a new job yesterday and in going to have quite a few 16 hr days in the near future. I'm going to hopefully work on a post tomorrow during lunch, but I'm going to have to DVR tomorrow night's game.
The saddest thing about Monday's game is that Collins actually took the ball out of Jrue's hands to start the game. Only problem was that Turner turned the ball over three times in the first when he was handling. Ugh. Funny thing is turnovers haven't cost them a game yet. Defense was the problem vs. Mil.