UPDATE: ESPN is now saying the deal is Jamario Moon and O'Neal for Marion and Marcus Banks. Moon's numbers have fallen off since a decent rookie year. I still think Miami got worse with the trade.ESPN has the scoop,
Jermaine O'Neal to the Miami Heat for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks. You can officially cross Miami off the list of teams who may have cap space this summer.
On the court, this move will give the Raptors basically an average center for about 30 minutes/game. I say average, based on PER, but his rebounding numbers are way below average, not to mention the fact that he's rarely healthy.
Pat Riley is apparently putting all of his eggs in the 2010 free agent class. Honestly, I think this move hurts Miami this season. They just lost their only wing defender and I can only assume this will mean a move to SF for Beasley, which will have tragic results on the defensive end.
Marion is an expiring contract, O'Neal expires after next season, Banks makes Willie Green look like a good signing.
Thoughts? Should Riley have pushed for Amare? Were the Heat better off as they were? Getting rid of Marcus Banks' horrible contract makes the whole thing worthwhile?
Ditching Marcus Banks contract was smart. I think this deal makes Miami much much worse though overall for the next 2 years. It does however free up space for the 3rd best market in the NBA IMO.
I'm pretty pretty surprised they wouldn't go after a Jazz PF this offseaosn though... either of them.
O'Neal isn't a good basketball player anymore and also is going to be hurt again. Marion is a very good basketball player still and now, as a PF?, in Toronto with Calderon he could return to his Phoenix form, which was a very very good player.
i agree that this makes miami worse in the short-term. but they know their ceiling this season is a 2nd round exit. they recently won a title, so they're not in the same situation as the sixers where getting to the 2nd round would be step forward.
also, reports out of chicago are that john paxson is resigning as GM. i don't know how that affects the rumors of stoudemire to chicago for TT, noah, and draft picks.
marion will play SF in toronto, right? that's a good deal for them because they have been lacking a swingman, and the o'neal experiment obviously wasn't working out.
If Marion is a SF, who is their first big off the bench though if Bargs and Bosh start at C and PF?
Moon is involved as well, so just ignore the above. They don't have any depth anywhere now at all, so they can start players wherever they please I guess.
Toronto is currently 5 games out of the #8 seed with 5 teams in between. That's far from impossible. If they can keep Calderon healthy, they may have a shot at the playoffs.
Reports are that while Riley may have liked Amare - the Suns wanted no part of taking back Marion.
O'neal is a good basketball player with back injuries playing out of position. He is not a center - if the heat use him at center - they're dumb - (like the raptors) - if they use him at PF - he'll be better - his problem is his back.
Why wouldn't the heat got after a jazz PF this off season
A. No guarantee boozer is available and he now looks injury prone
B. Won't have money to go after milsap - he's restricted I believe
As someone who 'owned' marion in fantasy b-ball this year - he's not a very good basketball player as he was in phoenix - and oh yeah - does anyone think toronto is going to shell out big bucks for him this off season?
For the raptors i see this as trying to correct their o'neal mistake - so now they have one smaller (banks) contract on the books but get rid of a lot of that money sooner - the raptors have to figure out how to keep chris bosh - i don't believe they intend to keep marion long term
Marion is going to be hard-pressed to find a team next season unless he's willing to play for the MLE.
It's going to be an interesting off season.
Dumars is a key player this off season - and he knows it.
Ah yes, so O'Neal is a good player eventhough he is too hurt to rebound the basketball... All he is going to be able to do is play some good D(I actually like JO's D a lot) and score very inefficiently. That is my dream PF personally.
He'll put up better numbers in Miami playing PF then he did in Toronto playing center I believe
This also frees up MORE cap space for Miami in 2010 - banks lasted past 2010 and more money for Toronto NOW.
I think the two 'big names' on the two teams have to be dealt with differently - Wade is probably more inclined to stay in Miami than Bosh is inclined to stay in Toronto. I think Toronto has to make moves NOW to get Bosh to stay in 2010 whereas Miami can take a more slow approach and wait until the actual off season - Miami is a 'sought after' destination for free agents, Toronto is not, and Bosh is already making rumblings that he won't re-sign - thus Torontos clock is ticking much faster and much more immediately than Miami's with wade.
Just my 'off court' opinion of the trade. On court I don't think it matters to either team in terms of contending
Who knows, the Looney may be killing the dollar by the summer of 2010, players could be begging to play in Canada.
No money called the looney will ever be killing the dollar - right now it's actually hurting again whereas recently it was down to close to a 1:1 exchange.
Sadly I have to know crap like that for my job :)
I don't know history but has the looney ever been 'killing' the dollar? I Mean it's canadia for goodness sake it's chief export is beer and irritating pop singers (and cheap hollywood film locations...enough with vnacouver, vancouver doesn't even look like vancouver any more
I have canadian friends who were itching to come to NYC about 6 months ago. I think it'll officially be panic time when the Looney surpasses us.
It's not even a real country - i mean seriously - their leader shut down the government for a while - and no one noticed - or cared - just annex the damn place except for queebec (send their asses back to france) and get it over with already :)
Don't forget about 1812... We owned your sorry imperialist wannabe asses :)
WHen you gotta go back almost 200 years for a military victory you're really stretching it.
Seriously - your money is called THE LOONEY - how can you take a country seriously that has money with that name.
I kid I kid - but seriously - get quebec in line already
Quebec is kind of whack. But what can you do, force a civil war and invade? ;)
Here here for the freedom loving 76ers spirit!
Ease up on the Canucks! Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, The Band, and Bryan Adams more than make up for Celine.
I actually like this deal for Miami. Toronto is trying to remain competitive for Bosh's sake but this will bring them no closer to the second round of the playoffs. Remember, this was a top 5 team in the East in the preseason. They're going nowhere.
Miami can start:
PG: Chalmers/Quinn
SG: Wade/Cook
SF: Moon/Beasley
PF: Haslem/Beasley
C: O'Neal
I think that's good enough for the fourth seed in the East and really, who can stop D-wade come playoffs? You have to think that even a 50% O'Neal is better than Joel Anthony. Plus, Miami can get a Bosh or Amare to join them in 2010. What's not to like?
Um, Bryan Adams was included inthe pop star thing - and i won't get into neil young :)
At this point, I'd put money on the Sixers finishing ahead of Miami.
I had money on that too - mostly because chalmers and beasley would probably hit a rookie wall at some point - it just happens - and those guys are too important to miamis winning and/or losing most nights
Check this out, Miami plays 18 of their final 30 games against teams over .500 (9 on the road)
The Hawks play 19 of their final 30 games against teams over .500 (8 on the road).
The Pistons play 17 of their final 31 games against teams over .500 (11 on the road).
The Sixers play 14 of their final 31 games against teams over .500 (6 on the road).
How many of those 6 are over 500?:)
Schedule in the sixers favor to possibly even get up to 4
but much can change between now and next thursday
Those are road games against teams over .500 in parens for each team.
Hollingers take - slightly more positive for miami than some here
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=HeatRaptorsTrade-090213
Saw that. For some reason he thinks JO failing in TOR was an effort thing, I guess, and moving to Miami he's suddenly going to be not only healthy, but healthy and productive.
He sees O'Neal/Moon at the 5/3 for Miami as being better than Magluire/Marion at the 5/3. Of course, he doesn't take into account how the Magluire/Moon combo will do in the 10+ games O'Neal misses the rest of the way.
Kinda sad Maresse is playing against Thad tonight.
isn't I mean. Damnit
Instead it's Durant vs. Beasley, who can get more shots off.
It is funny. Berri from Wages of Wins pretty much said the rookies would probably be favorites to win.(Especially if Love had made it) He did note that Beasley could come out though and win it... for the sophomores, which he pretty much did.
Great article by Michael Lewis, of Moneball on basketball, stats, and Battier:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all
He also wrote a great football book called the blind side :)
Good read. I liked the fact that Battier said he basically would trust the stats over himself when it came to where to force a player or a shot.
Not trading Miller makes no sense. from citypaper.