The Sixers held Derrick Rose to 18 points on 17 shots (and three free throws) last night. In the second half, Rose scored 3 points, didn't hand out a single assist and turned the ball over three times. Rich takes a close look at how Jrue Holiday's phenomenal play at the point of attack completely took away Rose's right hand while the rest of the team shut down the lane behind him.
The Chicago Bulls are a very good team, a top-level championship contender. There
will be no disputing that in this post. They have last year's MVP in Derrick Rose,
the Coach of the Year and a defensive mastermind in Tom Thibodeau, and a bunch
of other talented players who know what their role is and perform it to perfection.
They are deep, energetic, and just downright good. There's also one other thing that
needs to be noted about the Bulls now: Just like a number of other teams that were
dismissed as bad (Well, because a lot of them are), they walked into the Wells Fargo
Center last night and were handed a one-sided double digit defeat.
Really, the only thing a lot of people would say that separates the Sixers from teams
like the Bulls is that elite player, however vague of a term that is. There's no need
to get into a whole argument about that line of thinking right now, but one of the
many things that needs to be highlighted from last night's game is the pretty ordinary
game the Bulls got from their superstar. Specifically, how did the Sixers do that? The
answer is two-fold: Great team defense and a terrific effort from a single player, Jrue
Holiday.
The Sixers are pretty well equipped to guard people on the wings if they want
to with a world-class defender in Andre Iguodala and a guy who flashes a lot of
potential on that end of the floor in Evan Turner. Many have noticed one trend this
year with Iguodala, namely that he has trouble with the smaller players as he has
already struggled to varying degrees against Andre Miller and Deron Williams,
coincidentally coming in the Sixers' only two home losses. He guarded Rose for a
few possessions in the second quarter last night and Rose got into the lane
pretty easily, so you can add Rose to that list. It just seems like
these guys who can get to the rim have a low center of gravity on their drives, and
that sort of neutralizes his length. This isn't really a slight against Iguodala, as not
many people can keep Rose out of the paint at all, but the Sixers fortunately have a
guy who does a better job than most.
Brian noted the other night that Deron Williams struggled against Jrue and I sort of
argued. The numbers don't usually lie (Williams shot 6/18 against Jrue than night),
but I felt that Williams missed a couple of easier looks that he usually makes. In
hindsight after watching last night's game, it's probably time to start giving Jrue the
benefit of the doubt when it comes to defending point guards. His ability to move his
feet is another weapon the Sixers have used this season. Last night, he showed that
he has the combination of physical and mental ability to be a great defender.
Specifically against Rose, Jrue had a two-part plan to limit the damage. The first
thing he did was play him very aggressively. If there's one thing that's tough to
do against a lightning quick guard like Rose, it's to make him uncomfortable running
offense. He's improved his jumper a lot since he got into the league, but making
him a jump shooter seems to be the common belief on how to limit his scoring, or
at least make him get to whatever number in more attempts. That is not at all what
Jrue did last night, picking him up intially well outside the three-point line. Jrue
wasn't putting relentless ball pressure on Rose forty feet from the hoop, but he was
bodying Rose up a couple of steps outside the three point line, not letting Rose get
too comfortable in initiating Chicago's offense. There's no way anyone in the NBA
can harass Rose, but Jrue at least was a nuisance.
The other thing that Jrue's aggressive defense showed is that Collins' schemes
and the Sixer big men have Jrue's trust. The idea of steering an offensive player to
the help can be overused at times, especially when a team has a great shotblocker
(Every time Dwight Howard blocks a shot isn't because a defensive player "steers"
someone to him. They often play aggressively and get beat, knowing they have that
strong line of defense at the rim). In the Sixers' case last night, they did actively steer
players. Collins had one of the big men, usually Elton Brand, stray from his man to
provide a roadblock for Rose to the lane. In the picture below, Brand's man is Carlos
Boozer. Look at where he is, at the foul line, inviting the pass to Boozer. On the play,
Rose makes the correct decision and hits Boozer with a bounce pass that leads to
free throws, but the picture gives you a look at two things: 1. How aggressive Jrue
was outside of the three-point line, picking up Rose and 2. How Rose was staring at
EB all night, right in his path, whether he was at the top of the key or the left side of
the floor:
The picture also demonstrates the second part of what Jrue was doing. He
completely overplayed Rose to his right hand all night. Look at that picture again
and notice where he's playing. Jrue sent a message from the outset of the game
that if Rose were going to go by him, it would have to be around the left side. If you
play Derrick Rose straight up or lay off him, he will go around you with his right
hand, and he will more than likely score. He just will. I saw this when Rose scored
8 of his 17 points last night in the last 3:14 of the first half. There is a pretty easy
explanation for this: Jrue Holiday left the game with two fouls with 3:14 and Andre
Iguodala and Evan Turner were put on Rose. Neither of them, plus defenders in their
own right, followed Jrue's blueprint of taking away Rose's right hand. Two of the
made baskets were drives where Iguodala and Turner tried to play Rose straight up,
instead of aggressively taking away his right hand. Here they are:
I emphasize aggressively because that is what worked so well for Jrue. It seems a
little counterintuitive to basically invite a player like Rose a path to the hoop, but
you have to give up something when cutting off half of the floor. Jrue was playing Rose in a way that he couldn't get back to his right hand at any point unless he was
able to back dribble and create some space because he was literally guarding Rose's
right hand, staying right on his hip. With Jrue's ability to ride Rose as soon as he put
the ball on the floor with his left, Rose wasn't able to completely get by him until
he needed to get a shot off near the rim, and at that point he's unable to cross over.
Even in some cases where he does get past Jrue, which is going to happen with a guy
like Rose, they aren't straight line drives. I really like this play where Jrue gets "beat"
by Rose. Rose gives a pretty good hesitation move and heads to his left. The beauty
of this is that even though he shakes Jrue initially, Jrue recovers and takes away the
angle so that he can't get into the paint at all. He ends up having to take a long step
to just get by Jrue and because of this, he takes off outside of the paint from a long
ways away from the rim. This allows Brand, even at his age, to become a shotblocker
and start the break for Iguodala. So maybe Jrue doesn't even get beat at all here,
because he knows he has help if he can keep Rose out of the paint:
The Bulls love to run screens to Rose's right to get him going in that direction.
Jrue overplayed these as well, forcing him to get back to his left. In this video coming
up, Jrue used the same principles he tried to use all night, keep him away from
his right hand. At the foul line are two Sixers' big men in Brand and Tony Battie,
really guarding nobody and ready to help. Rose badly wants to get to his right and
Jrue dekes him, sort of overplaying the middle drive for a second and then quickly
beating him to the spot so he can't get around the screen. He guesses right and Rose
runs right into him, crashing into Jrue (and Noah), coughing up the ball to Jodie for a
Jrue dunk on the other end:
Watching Jrue's defense turn into a weapon has been a pleasure for all of us who
knew he had it in him since he was a rookie. As Doug Collins has made
stopping the ball screens a priority this year, he's really flourished.
Now of course, everyone contributed last night: Iguodala was the best player on the
floor. Brand struggled shooting but made a major impact on the defensive end and
on the glass. Battie gave the Sixers 15 minutes of good defense. Jodie knocked down
a three even though he struggled. Turner (defense and passing) and Lou (scoring)
ignited the team. Thad was his efficient self. Lavoy Allen gave them a really solid
15 and 6, and is proving that he is not the worst player in the NBA as ESPN
ranked him. The Voose, who is healthy and who played well during the year, can't
get off the bench now because Allen (the 6th big man when the season started) is
playing so well. Heck, Jrue had a really nice offensive game too. His defense is only a
piece of the puzzle.
Now obviously it's a lot of fun to root for the team that is trying to prove the general
logic wrong that you can't win without a dominant player. Teams have won a fair
amount of regular season games solely by defending and sharing the ball, but they
are usually first round fodder in the playoffs. All we'll hear all year until the playoffs
from other sources (In our heads too, probably) is that the Sixers won't be able to
do anything significant without a superstar. The question they've raised in their last
two wins against Orlando and Chicago is, "What if the Sixers consistently turn the
other team's star into an ordinary player?"
The thing I love about these last two games is that the Sixers limited a dominant
point guard and a dominant big man. We all know they have an antidote for the
dominant guys who fit in the other category.
Speaking of dominant wing players, we'll see how they deal with the Heat on their
second go-round. I've heard they have a couple of those guys.
Rich, great job with this post. It should be noted that Rose beat Iguodala going to his left once too, though Iguodala got his block on Rose when Rose went left.
It takes a lot of discipline to play a guy to his dominant side, and I notice this when playing pick-up. The problem is that when you shade a guy one way and he goes the other way (to his weak hand), he's going to be a full step ahead of you if he has any speed/first step at all. But the beauty of making a guy go toward his off hand is that he either has to shoot with his off hand (not everyone can do that) or he has to bring the ball back toward you with his strong hand.
Interestingly, it seems to me that Jrue is one of those guards who is better going to his left ...
He did beat Iguodala going to his left one time. But again there was help there in Brand, and he made an absolutely ridiculous sort of power floater (If there is such a thing) going to his left. I didn't mention it because that seemed like it was one of those "There's nothing you can do about it" plays.
Jrue seems to be quick and smart enough that he can shade to the left and get beat, but sort of recover for a few steps and cut off the middle of the lane until the guy has to go around him again. At least that's what he did last night.
There was something else about Jrue's play last night that was pretty interesting. You hear all the time about guys who pick up their defense when they get more touches and shots on the offensive end. Last night at least, Jrue was just the opposite. Offensively, he looked really tentative out there to begin with. The more success he had guarding Rose, the more active he got in initiating the offense and looking for his own shot.
Here's an interesting comp if you're wondering who should win the sixth man of the year.
Iguodala really needs to make the All Star team, or Jrue, or Thad, or Lou or just someone. This team just needs some recognition. Here's a comp showing Iguodala vs. a bunch of guys who are also probably going to be in the running. When you take the team record into account, and the huge hand he's had in that, he has to get the nod this year.
I think Iguodala has a very good shot at making the allstar game this year. I put some thought into it as well a few days ago and realized he is probably very close. It's all going to come up to name recognition vs. record and while record has been more important in the past the last few years the allstar tends to move towards name recognition (talking about votes from coaches).
My current Eastern allstar team looks like this:
PG: Rose / Jennings (D.Williams, Irving, Holiday, L.Williams)
SG: Wade / Johnson
SF: Lebron / Iguodala (Deng / Anthony / Pierce)
PF: Bosh / Smith
C: Howard / Hibbert (Hawes / Noah / Chandler / Monroe)
additional: Deng / Pierce
I am assuming 2 of each position and 2 additional ones. Other possibilities are in brackets. Lots of injuries and surprising bad play of some teams / players have made this allstar game very intriguing.
Interestingly i think Thad is the 3rd best PF, Turner is in the top 5 at SG and both Holiday and Lou have a realistic chance to make the squad instead of Jennings.
Keep in mind it is "guys who can play the SG position" so the field is not limited to players that exclusively play SG. For example, I could see Iguodala making it as a "SG" since the competition is tighter at SF.
I only meant guys that are listed as SGs basically. I know it's a simplistic approach but had to start somewhere. I only had players playing at a single position.
btw, there will be a SixersBeat episode tonight at 9:30pm. Just leave your questions here, if you have any. I'll put a post up about 9pm with the details to listen/call in.
Name the 5 non-center elligible players in modern NBA history (the past 45 years) who made the All Star team in a year where they averaged for that season:
Pippin was age 25 at the start of his first season where he was named to an All NBA Defensive team (2nd team.) Age 26 the first time he made 1st team All Defense.
Iguodala was 26 at the beginning of the first season he was named All Defense (2nd team.) So only 1 year behind Pippin in All NBA Defense recognition.
Iguodala was 26 to start this year. The year Pippin started age 26 he had only been named to 1 All Star game thus far in his career. So again, only 1 year behind.
Obviously the biggest difference is that Pippen had already won a title at age 25. But Playing with MJ probably helped. But the point is that Iguodala could still be raised a ton in national profile if his team starts winning.
Right, I mentioned Bobby Jones the other day as the precedent for Iguodala's making it with such a low scoring average. However, Bobby was uniquely well-respected around the league for both his game (great defense, high-percentage offense) as well as his gentlemanly behavior. It's harder in this day and age for Iguodala to be appreciated for many of the same characteristics in his game, plus he wasn't "gentlemanly" earlier in his career.
...even though it's pretty clearly two guys who had not watched this team at all before last night, there's still one incredible line slash potential new nickname in there: "But the real highlight was the bench. Ah, this bench: Thaddeus Young (19 points), Lou Williams (14 points) and Evan Turner (points are a stupid metric!)"
I can't, for the life of me, understand how this comparison is not being made by the media. Jrue and Gary Payton. Same size. Same athleticism. Jrue's a better shooter. Gary was a better defender in his third season- but Jrue is only 21! Why is that never taken into account? Jrue would be a top 5 pick in this years draft if he stayed at UCLA. Here's the comp between Jrue in year three and Payton in year three.
The Sixers are also playing a special brand of team basketball that limits offensive production of all of our players individually, skewing Jrue's stats. All in all, we have a special point guard on our hands.
SI.com: How serious did negotiations get with Spencer last summer before you guys just agreed on the one-year qualifying offer? Did you guys make a multi-year offer?
Thorn: Yeah, we did. Spencer — and I give him credit — thinks he’s a terrific player. In his mind, the offer was not commensurate with how he views himself. And the league was not offering him what he thought was his true value. He didn’t hesitate. He came in a day or two later said, “Hey, I’ll come in on a qualifying offer, and I’ll show everybody what I’m worth.”
Looks like the country is starting to take us seriously now. There is a poll on Espn.com that asks which loss yesterday was more surprising, the Heat or the Bulls. The last time I checked close to 80% chose the Heat losing to the Bucks. It should have been 100%
Great stuff Rich as always. I love these X and Os posts from you keep em coming.
It's interesting to me that Collins and probably more importantly Micheal Curry have consistently devised great defensive schemes against teams with one major weapon used heavily in the offensive concepts of the team no matter the type of player. Chicago (Rose), Orlando (Howard), Atlanta (Johnson) all fit the bill of those teams that they have recently played against. Where the team struggles is against more balanced teams with multiple evenly used weapons such as Miami and Denver.
Another thing I found interesting with the horrible charge call on Iguodala last night: The ref, Mark Lindsay, is another Philly guy. I am a fan of referee critiquing, not out and out bashing, but there's two things I've seen this year:
1. The charging calls are getting to be just really bad. It's at the point that you get the call if you are moving slow, not with your feet planted.
2. I hate when all of the Philly refs call a game here. Crawford, Callahan, and now Lindsay have made calls that have been really bad against the Sixers. It could be that they are just missing them, but man.
Yeah, Palmer has really hurt the chances for future women refs in the NBA. She is sort of the Clarence Thomas of trailblazing refs if that makes any sense.
Yeah, another instructive article Rich. It's great seeing good defense tuirning into dunks on the other end. I'm also glad that the refs did not bail out Rose with weak calls on those plays. Because that kind of thing can really turn a game.
Some interesting on/off the floor stats that show how valuable Jrue is to the defense (or how big a step down his replacement PG is at defense):
With Jrue on the floor opponents score 92.8 pts per 100 possessions. With Jrue on the bench that number jumps to 102.7 pts allowed.
The only other regular with a similar impact is Iguodala, but interestingly overall Jrue is a net +6.4 while Iguodala surprisingly is a net -1.7. Don't really know why that is.
Where are you getting those numbers? At basketballvalue, Jrue is a net +8.36 while Iguodala is a net +1.76. And the numbers at basketball-reference.com are totally different again, where Jrue has the worst net (ORtg-DRtg) of any Sixer regular (+3, whereas Iguodala and Thad are at +16, Lou at +14). Makes you wonder what is going on with the different statistics ...
Don't know why the defensive pts allowed per 100 possessions is identical for Jrue and Iguodala but strangely the offensive pts per 100 possessions vary greatly between the two players. The offensive production is much better when Iguodala is on the bench for some unknown reason. not so much when Jrue is on the bench.
Totally agree on letting the weak call go on that play. Last night's game was generally well-officiated (I think they missed a ball out on Noah too), but they got the flow of the game exactly right. That's what's important too.
Iguodala should DEFINTTELY be an All-Star this season.
The level of his individual play and the fact that his team is performing at a high level should be enough. If it's not, he's got a couple of sportcenter "wow" highlights (self pass dunk off the backboard and around his back dribble) to appease the more casual fans.
Doug Collins said at his postgame press conference that Derrick Rose was sick yesterday and that he had to leave practice earlier in the day. Don't mean to piss on anyone's JRUE parade but it is what it is...
This is news why? They said this at the beginning of the telecast, he seemed ok to play when it was a close game and then after they got bitch slapped in the third quarter he was too sick to play.
Of course you meant to 'piss on the parade' - that's fine - if it makes you happy
No I'm not, just being real. I'm a long time Sixer fan and would love to see Jrue be some elite player or for that matter elite defender. Not there, yet.
No one said he was they said he had a great game last night shutting down derrick rose who was magically healed to be able to beat the knicks last night. ANd the note you felt you had to bring up was brought up during the game by the announcers so it's not like doug was saying anything viewers already didn't know.
Derrick Rose was SO SICK on Wednesday that Thursday he dropped 32/13 on the knicks
"Really, the only thing a lot of people would say that separates the Sixers from teams like the Bulls is that elite player, however vague of a term that is."
Maybe a lot of people would say that; I think a lot of other people would say that unlike us they have a pretty great big man rotation and a good center.
between my frenetic schedule, have been able to check up on the Sixers games, while scanning DF daily.
Excellent post Rich. Once I saw that steal when Jrue was pinned between Rose and the screener, I figured he was favoring one side.. Now I know it was his scheme.
"What if the Sixers consistently turn the other team's star into an ordinary player?"
It's a silent hope I keep in my heart with regards this team's future and the urgent prospect of avoiding inevitably dreaded Hawks plateau. JTI look promising. Wonder what they can do against Miami a 2nd time around. DC has not given us a preview of his defensive scheme for the Heat. I know he has one. I'd like to see it tomorrow. Will DVR that game.
Just wanted to shout out to the Sixers on a huge win.
Fans better get the WFC rocking for Friday's game. Need to hear some real noise (and not just for Big Macs)
Understandable. He doesn't seem to mind watching opponents score. A trading buckets-player now. Am surprised Thibodeau tolerates to the extent he does. If Boozer ain't hittin' (or seriously boarding), he should be sittin'. 30, expensive, on downside.
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Great stuff, thanks Rich.
The final video was such an unbelievable play. He was so quick in getting between the screen and Rose, just a brilliant play.
Rich, great job with this post. It should be noted that Rose beat Iguodala going to his left once too, though Iguodala got his block on Rose when Rose went left.
It takes a lot of discipline to play a guy to his dominant side, and I notice this when playing pick-up. The problem is that when you shade a guy one way and he goes the other way (to his weak hand), he's going to be a full step ahead of you if he has any speed/first step at all. But the beauty of making a guy go toward his off hand is that he either has to shoot with his off hand (not everyone can do that) or he has to bring the ball back toward you with his strong hand.
Interestingly, it seems to me that Jrue is one of those guards who is better going to his left ...
He did beat Iguodala going to his left one time. But again there was help there in Brand, and he made an absolutely ridiculous sort of power floater (If there is such a thing) going to his left. I didn't mention it because that seemed like it was one of those "There's nothing you can do about it" plays.
Jrue seems to be quick and smart enough that he can shade to the left and get beat, but sort of recover for a few steps and cut off the middle of the lane until the guy has to go around him again. At least that's what he did last night.
There was something else about Jrue's play last night that was pretty interesting. You hear all the time about guys who pick up their defense when they get more touches and shots on the offensive end. Last night at least, Jrue was just the opposite. Offensively, he looked really tentative out there to begin with. The more success he had guarding Rose, the more active he got in initiating the offense and looking for his own shot.
Here's an interesting comp if you're wondering who should win the sixth man of the year.
Iguodala really needs to make the All Star team, or Jrue, or Thad, or Lou or just someone. This team just needs some recognition. Here's a comp showing Iguodala vs. a bunch of guys who are also probably going to be in the running. When you take the team record into account, and the huge hand he's had in that, he has to get the nod this year.
I think Iguodala has a very good shot at making the allstar game this year. I put some thought into it as well a few days ago and realized he is probably very close. It's all going to come up to name recognition vs. record and while record has been more important in the past the last few years the allstar tends to move towards name recognition (talking about votes from coaches).
My current Eastern allstar team looks like this:
PG: Rose / Jennings (D.Williams, Irving, Holiday, L.Williams)
SG: Wade / Johnson
SF: Lebron / Iguodala (Deng / Anthony / Pierce)
PF: Bosh / Smith
C: Howard / Hibbert (Hawes / Noah / Chandler / Monroe)
additional: Deng / Pierce
I am assuming 2 of each position and 2 additional ones. Other possibilities are in brackets. Lots of injuries and surprising bad play of some teams / players have made this allstar game very intriguing.
Interestingly i think Thad is the 3rd best PF, Turner is in the top 5 at SG and both Holiday and Lou have a realistic chance to make the squad instead of Jennings.
Not sure how ET can be in the top 5 at SG.
Keep in mind it is "guys who can play the SG position" so the field is not limited to players that exclusively play SG. For example, I could see Iguodala making it as a "SG" since the competition is tighter at SF.
I only meant guys that are listed as SGs basically. I know it's a simplistic approach but had to start somewhere. I only had players playing at a single position.
btw, there will be a SixersBeat episode tonight at 9:30pm. Just leave your questions here, if you have any. I'll put a post up about 9pm with the details to listen/call in.
Assuming everyone's healthy again, what's your take on what the bigs rotation should or will look like?
Trivia question:
Name the 5 non-center elligible players in modern NBA history (the past 45 years) who made the All Star team in a year where they averaged for that season:
Less than 15 pts
Less than 6 Asst
Less than 7 reb
Iguodala is averaging 13/5A/6.7R
Here is the answer: http://bkref.com/tiny/Y6Ad9
Hint, 2 are players whose numbers will never be worn again by a Sixer.
Related triviality:
Iguodala is one of 13 player in NBA history to average for his career 15pts/5.7reb/4.7 asst (Iggy is 15.5/5.8/4.8)
The only players on that list not in the HOF are Iguodala and Lebron.
http://bkref.com/tiny/OrTr4
I am not suggesting this makes Iguuodala a HOF caliber player (he is not.) But it shows how rare it is to find a "glue guy" like Iggy.
Also, Pippin's career numbers:
16.1/6.4/5.2 stl 2.0
Iguodala:
15.5/5.8/4.8 atl 1.8
I few other Pipping comparisons:
Pippin was age 25 at the start of his first season where he was named to an All NBA Defensive team (2nd team.) Age 26 the first time he made 1st team All Defense.
Iguodala was 26 at the beginning of the first season he was named All Defense (2nd team.) So only 1 year behind Pippin in All NBA Defense recognition.
Iguodala was 26 to start this year. The year Pippin started age 26 he had only been named to 1 All Star game thus far in his career. So again, only 1 year behind.
Obviously the biggest difference is that Pippen had already won a title at age 25. But Playing with MJ probably helped. But the point is that Iguodala could still be raised a ton in national profile if his team starts winning.
Right, I mentioned Bobby Jones the other day as the precedent for Iguodala's making it with such a low scoring average. However, Bobby was uniquely well-respected around the league for both his game (great defense, high-percentage offense) as well as his gentlemanly behavior. It's harder in this day and age for Iguodala to be appreciated for many of the same characteristics in his game, plus he wasn't "gentlemanly" earlier in his career.
Grantland actually writes about the Sixers today!
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/15951/2-sixers-fans-react-to-beating-the-bulls
...even though it's pretty clearly two guys who had not watched this team at all before last night, there's still one incredible line slash potential new nickname in there: "But the real highlight was the bench. Ah, this bench: Thaddeus Young (19 points), Lou Williams (14 points) and Evan Turner (points are a stupid metric!)"
I can't, for the life of me, understand how this comparison is not being made by the media. Jrue and Gary Payton. Same size. Same athleticism. Jrue's a better shooter. Gary was a better defender in his third season- but Jrue is only 21! Why is that never taken into account? Jrue would be a top 5 pick in this years draft if he stayed at UCLA. Here's the comp between Jrue in year three and Payton in year three.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=holidjr01&y1=2012&p2=paytoga01&y2=1993
The Sixers are also playing a special brand of team basketball that limits offensive production of all of our players individually, skewing Jrue's stats. All in all, we have a special point guard on our hands.
found this interesting while reading zach lowe's sitdown with thorn, http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/02/02/rod-thorn-talks-sixers-andre-iguodala-rumors-stephon-marbury-and-more/
SI.com: How serious did negotiations get with Spencer last summer before you guys just agreed on the one-year qualifying offer? Did you guys make a multi-year offer?
Thorn: Yeah, we did. Spencer — and I give him credit — thinks he’s a terrific player. In his mind, the offer was not commensurate with how he views himself. And the league was not offering him what he thought was his true value. He didn’t hesitate. He came in a day or two later said, “Hey, I’ll come in on a qualifying offer, and I’ll show everybody what I’m worth.”
Looks like the country is starting to take us seriously now. There is a poll on Espn.com that asks which loss yesterday was more surprising, the Heat or the Bulls. The last time I checked close to 80% chose the Heat losing to the Bucks. It should have been 100%
Great stuff Rich as always. I love these X and Os posts from you keep em coming.
It's interesting to me that Collins and probably more importantly Micheal Curry have consistently devised great defensive schemes against teams with one major weapon used heavily in the offensive concepts of the team no matter the type of player. Chicago (Rose), Orlando (Howard), Atlanta (Johnson) all fit the bill of those teams that they have recently played against. Where the team struggles is against more balanced teams with multiple evenly used weapons such as Miami and Denver.
Another thing I found interesting with the horrible charge call on Iguodala last night: The ref, Mark Lindsay, is another Philly guy. I am a fan of referee critiquing, not out and out bashing, but there's two things I've seen this year:
1. The charging calls are getting to be just really bad. It's at the point that you get the call if you are moving slow, not with your feet planted.
2. I hate when all of the Philly refs call a game here. Crawford, Callahan, and now Lindsay have made calls that have been really bad against the Sixers. It could be that they are just missing them, but man.
3. Oh, and Violet Palmer just isn't very good.
Yeah, Palmer has really hurt the chances for future women refs in the NBA. She is sort of the Clarence Thomas of trailblazing refs if that makes any sense.
Yeah, another instructive article Rich. It's great seeing good defense tuirning into dunks on the other end. I'm also glad that the refs did not bail out Rose with weak calls on those plays. Because that kind of thing can really turn a game.
Some interesting on/off the floor stats that show how valuable Jrue is to the defense (or how big a step down his replacement PG is at defense):
With Jrue on the floor opponents score 92.8 pts per 100 possessions. With Jrue on the bench that number jumps to 102.7 pts allowed.
The only other regular with a similar impact is Iguodala, but interestingly overall Jrue is a net +6.4 while Iguodala surprisingly is a net -1.7. Don't really know why that is.
Where are you getting those numbers? At basketballvalue, Jrue is a net +8.36 while Iguodala is a net +1.76. And the numbers at basketball-reference.com are totally different again, where Jrue has the worst net (ORtg-DRtg) of any Sixer regular (+3, whereas Iguodala and Thad are at +16, Lou at +14). Makes you wonder what is going on with the different statistics ...
Just using 82games on/off stats.
Don't know why the defensive pts allowed per 100 possessions is identical for Jrue and Iguodala but strangely the offensive pts per 100 possessions vary greatly between the two players. The offensive production is much better when Iguodala is on the bench for some unknown reason. not so much when Jrue is on the bench.
Totally agree on letting the weak call go on that play. Last night's game was generally well-officiated (I think they missed a ball out on Noah too), but they got the flow of the game exactly right. That's what's important too.
Iguodala should DEFINTTELY be an All-Star this season.
The level of his individual play and the fact that his team is performing at a high level should be enough. If it's not, he's got a couple of sportcenter "wow" highlights (self pass dunk off the backboard and around his back dribble) to appease the more casual fans.
t.co/A9CxULIE
Clap your hands, everybody...
Let's try that again...
http://t.co/A9CxULIE
Doug Collins said at his postgame press conference that Derrick Rose was sick yesterday and that he had to leave practice earlier in the day. Don't mean to piss on anyone's JRUE parade but it is what it is...
This is news why? They said this at the beginning of the telecast, he seemed ok to play when it was a close game and then after they got bitch slapped in the third quarter he was too sick to play.
Of course you meant to 'piss on the parade' - that's fine - if it makes you happy
No I'm not, just being real. I'm a long time Sixer fan and would love to see Jrue be some elite player or for that matter elite defender. Not there, yet.
No one said he was they said he had a great game last night shutting down derrick rose who was magically healed to be able to beat the knicks last night. ANd the note you felt you had to bring up was brought up during the game by the announcers so it's not like doug was saying anything viewers already didn't know.
Derrick Rose was SO SICK on Wednesday that Thursday he dropped 32/13 on the knicks
I still stand by the philadelphia phlu
"Really, the only thing a lot of people would say that separates the Sixers from teams like the Bulls is that elite player, however vague of a term that is."
Maybe a lot of people would say that; I think a lot of other people would say that unlike us they have a pretty great big man rotation and a good center.
True. At this point though, the big man rotation gap has probably narrowed a bit, for now at least.
nothing to add except a big, fat thanks. To the author, of course, and also the fans who check in here regularly.
I am so stoked to have found some other heads who are as big (ok waaaay bigger) fans than I.
Cheers and keep up the good work.
between my frenetic schedule, have been able to check up on the Sixers games, while scanning DF daily.
Excellent post Rich. Once I saw that steal when Jrue was pinned between Rose and the screener, I figured he was favoring one side.. Now I know it was his scheme.
"What if the Sixers consistently turn the other team's star into an ordinary player?"
It's a silent hope I keep in my heart with regards this team's future and the urgent prospect of avoiding inevitably dreaded Hawks plateau. JTI look promising. Wonder what they can do against Miami a 2nd time around. DC has not given us a preview of his defensive scheme for the Heat. I know he has one. I'd like to see it tomorrow. Will DVR that game.
Just wanted to shout out to the Sixers on a huge win.
Fans better get the WFC rocking for Friday's game. Need to hear some real noise (and not just for Big Macs)
Jrue's defense will show tonight when Derrick Rose crushes the Knicks.
A great way to get a PF hot is to let him play against Boozer.
He was inexcusably lazy several times last night on D. Just terrible.
I live in Chicago and he is crucified on the sports shows.
Understandable. He doesn't seem to mind watching opponents score. A trading buckets-player now. Am surprised Thibodeau tolerates to the extent he does. If Boozer ain't hittin' (or seriously boarding), he should be sittin'. 30, expensive, on downside.