Since Josh Harris and Co. took over control of the Sixers, they haven't done a thing to put their thumbprint on the roster. Mo Speights was shipped out, that's pretty much it. Tonight, we're going to get our first glimpse into where this team is headed. Will they trade up? Will they look to improve upon their second-round exit this past season? Will they take a step back in the hopes of taking several steps forward in the coming years? Or will they simply bring back Spencer Hawes, Lou Williams and Elton Brand, perhaps even trade away their first round pick in tonight's draft to add a veteran to the mix? Your guess is as good as mine, I'm just relieved to get our first glimpse into the future of the franchise. Live chat/blog throughout the night to follow.
Harkless WTF??
They drafted Harkless at #15. I checked out after that. Great first step for the "new" regime. Jokers.
In a draft like this one it is frustrating to not really know what trades were available to the Sixers. Seems like the second year in a row they basically wasted a pick... when trading up could have potentially helped their rebuilding. But who really knows
What the cost of moving up would have been.
I certainly would have traded Piggy to get to 9 or a second rounder to get Henson... but we will never know what the asking price was.
I love my phone and how it fixes my "typos."
Does it really matter what the asking price was?
No, but who knows what could have been.
But the Sixers act like trading up is illegal in the NBA.
Let's be honest, this is a bottom 10 organization.
If Perry Jones goes to the heat i'll be quite intrigued.
Thorn's note on the entire braintrust having Harkless #1 on their list(s) is incredibly scary.
We are surrounded by idiots.
The braintrust consists of one addled brain - of course it's unanimous
BTW - even if more minds were involved - do you think Thorn would publicly say there was yuelling and screaming int he room and only doug collins wanted to make this pick while everyone else threw apples at him?
A fair point - you certainly need to be united in your messaging.
Your agenda knows no ends.
I have absolutely no agenda
I don't care if you believe me
I believe what I write
That's all that matters to me
But you're always talking about facts and evidence and there's no evidence (yet) that Collins is in total autonomy. None whatsoever. It just seems odd that you'd place belief in something that isn't supported by facts as much as you portend to rely on them.
So what does this pick say about Collins. Not a good pick... but how does this fit with regard to the constant banter I here about Collins being a shortsighted win now coach who hates young guys and never goes for upside?
This pick screams long term project. It dies not fit need at all and is a total BPA pick- even if it was the wrong choice if BPA.
I contend Collins does not have the overly short term horizon you claim.
I was thinking the same thing. Some people are incredibly presumptuous.
Is the live blog over?
It's over, Johnny. OVER!
This really seemed like an uneventful draft. Maybe because the possibility for stars was minimal. Don't know, just seemed/seems really boring to an extent.
Broussard just said that the sixers did want to trade Andre Iguodala for Rudy Gay
Broussard is just as bad as Skip Bayless.
Well no he's not, he watches basketball games, and has contacts, Skip just makes things up
So someone made a good point, Doug said they wanted length off the bench at the end of last season. Thing that pisses me off about that and nothing to do with Harkless is, it's like they pinpoint a mindset and go into the draft narrow minded, just like last year when early reports were they wanted Vucevic hands down. Seems they'd be a little more fluid at least, no? And not zero in on something when the draft takes such unexpected twists and turns. Just a thought.....
Yeah, and length off the bench is something available in free agency for a reasonable price. Dorell Wright is still a guy I have a lot of interest in.
agree, without mentioning that Wright can shoot too.
I'm just still lost as with past years as to what the direction is supposed to be.
does anyone know how good of shooter iguodala was coming out of college?
20% 3pt shooter free throw year, 32% sophmore year.
Not mad at the pick whatsoever. Disappointed at not moving up and getting one of the higher upside bigs, or Ross, but any high upside player to me is better than what was left, minus Pj3, but there has to be a reason he still hasn't been picked.
A high upside player with no shooting skill who plays the same position as Evan Turner and Andre Iguodala in the NBA is better than a 'moderate' upsized player at either position of which the sixers have desperate need?
Ok then
Sixers trading up to take Moultrie
this bleeping team
@chadfordinsider 76ers will select Arnett Moultrie according to sources.
Come on - its 27! At least they did something.
tell me it isn't lottery protected.
@SpearsNBAYahoo
Heat will get future 1st and 45th pick this year from Philly.
Perry Jones is still there - for 3 million you could have him
Moultrie to the sixers
Damn it, wrote that before I read the trade stuff.
I hope that first is like uber protected
Can you do any protection you want? Like top 20 protected?
I think so yeah - both teams just have to agree :)
Poor Brian
Westbrook-Harden-Durant-Jones-Ibaka is an incredibly athletic rotation. I think Durant will be a great influence on PJ3, hope the best for PJ3, sucks he slipped so much. PJ seems like a good kid in his interviews.
hmmm PJ3 to the Thunder...interesting...
Hold up - we gave up a 1st for the 3rd to last pick this year? And a 2nd this year? Couldn't two 2nd's have been enough? geez
I mean, is Moultrie that much of a game changer to this franchise that he warranted a future 1st? If he is, then why didn't they just take him at 15?
yeah, our front office is shit. What's new.
Two crappy seconds for 27? How would that have enticed Miami? Late first round picks have easy contracts.
lat first round picks have bad contracts compared to early second round picks - cause they're guaranteed
No doubt, but just two years now, right?
Not a lot of first round picks are often let go before the end of their 'full' deal...second round picks are slightly better.
Hey look ESPN finally reporting the siers trade with the heat.
But the problem to me also is 1st round picks have guaranteed contracts.
That future 1st better be top 20 protected then to have given it up for such a late first round pick that is gonna end up being guaranteed.
Thunder get PJ3
In another draft-day trade, the Miami Heat will trade the draft rights of No. 27 pick Arnett Moultrie to the Philadelphia 76ers for the 45th pick in Thursday's draft as well as a future first round pick, a source told ESPN.com's Ford.
Does anyone else think it’s funny that the Sixers drafted a Moe to be on a team full of Stooges?
Sure hope this is the mother of all first round protections.
You ain't the only one.
So, that was the pick that came over in the Speights deal right? And they turned it into Moultrie who has been compared to Marresse? Wish they would have given up the 54th and not the early one.
The pick from Memphis is the 54th. I think they traded the 45th to the heat.
As long as that pick has crazy protection, that's cool. Could be some nice value there. He has some tools the team is desperately in need of: A big who can apparently finish, and a solid rebounder (led the SEC).
Miami would want to do that to free up cap space for a veteran, correct?
Teams used yo sell late 1sts for cash. Surprised the Sixers had to give back a future 1st.
BTW, the Sixers taking on the extra guaranteed contract tells me that Brand is gone.
Why necessarily? They have to fill out the roster. Most thought they would draft at least one big man regardless of other moves. Brand has only one more year, Moultrie probably isn't ready to start, and Moultrie is big enough to switch between the 4 and 5 positions.
I read somewhere that Moultrie was in the gym while other rooks were out clubbin' during the Chicago camp
Let's give the sixers some credit. They got the projected 13th and 16th picks from a deep draft for Miami's 27th, sixers 45th, and a future sixers'1st rounder. I'm expecting the pick to be guarded for the "top 3" drafts picks but I haven't seen anything.
....so these are replacemens for 00 and Brand or 00 and ET/AI9?
SAC sold #36 to Indiana. Why couldn't sixers have bought it? Does the team have that much talent that they couldn't use another pick to stash away? How's that european scouting department working out these days anyway.
How many rookies would you like them to have? They already have two guaranteed rookie contracts to sign
There isn't a single player overseas that we can take a shot at and hold the rights to down the road?
And the sixers still have a pick
When did the sixers last do that by the way?
Ricky Sanchez?
He was not drafted by the sixers
Portland to
Denver to
Philadelphia to
Memphis
Not to mention, he's Puerto Rican, and never played in Europe and never was going to play for the sixers (jesus, at what point do the draft rights to a player expire, it's been 7 years - no statutes of limitations or anything?)
Efthimios Rentzias?
Watch the Rod Thorn interview....he mentions taking Harkless over Zeller. Then he mentions why they didn't like him but they also considered Moultrie (this was before he traded for Moultrie). Sounded like they were divided on these 2 while sitting at 15.
I am not saying I like either of these picks. But I do respect us trading to get a guy at 28 that we considered taking for 16.
....the franchise has delusioned me enough to get happy about that stuff
@chadfordinsider 76ers will send Heat future first. Lottery protected in 2013, 14, 15.
Also from Chad Ford: If Heat don't receive 1st by '15, they get a 2nd in '15 & '16.
all this for a guy who doesn't block shots and has no post game ?
I'm disappointed.
- I've warmed up to the Harkless pick. I would have preferred Zeller or Jones. The way I see it, Harkless will be a solid player off the bench and eventually develop into a decent starter in a few years. I think he'll be a Gerald Wallace with a weaker offensive game.
- The Moultrie trade makes me angry. It better be top 25 protected and then turn into a couple of 2nd round picks if the Sixers don't draft in the 26-30 range. I really think Moultrie will be cut in a few years.
- I officially hate Rod Thorn.
FYI the two new guys are both on twitter, @moe_harkless and @amoultrie for those who are on...but neither look anywhere near as amusing as 00 to this point...
Mavs dumped a bit more salary in that trade - they traded Azubeike - who i forgot was still in the league
They're really clearing as much as they can't aren't they?
Draft night video, including Rod Thorn on No. 15 pick Moe Harkless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REk2TcKt1F0
From ESPN...
The Heat get the 45th pick in this year's draft and a future No. 1. The first-rounder is lottery-protected for the next three drafts, a source told ESPN.com's Chad Ford. If the Heat do not get the pick by the 2015 draft, they will receive a second-round pick in 2015 and a second-round pick in 2016.
Lottery protected only for 3 years? That seems pretty weak for such a low pick in the draft
Unless of course you plan to be in the lottery for the next three years
I'm just saying
sure sell the pick, not like you need a shooter or anything
Sixers pick at #54 is...some guy named Tornike Shengelia, F, from Georgia (former Soviet Georgia), hmm... 6'9 228 lb forward 20 yr old..."scorer really good at attacking the basket, finds ways ot attacking the rim, talk about draft and stash with Euro picks" from whatever talking head is on ESPN...
54th pick - Sixers Select a dude from Georgia, (not THAT georgia, the other one
Tornike Shengelia
He's 6'9 1/2"
But he's not a banger
Fran loves him for his scoring - fran loves every euro drafted
Never will play for the sixers
but hey - there's a draft and stash
ugh what the hell, already seeing tweets that they've sold that Shengelia dude to the Nets...really Thorn really??
heh, can't believe (or hell yes I can!) that they actually sold a Euro pick to someone else while Darius Johnson-Odom was on the board, I mean, he can shoot a little you know.
Now, this really pisses me off. Johnson-Odom (undersized, but a very good and proven shooter/scorer) still on the board and the Sixers trade the pick for cash. That's so weak. It's not like the end of the 2nd Round was good to them last year or anything...
I love when people get upset over picks in the late 50s...it's cute
I don't like teams sell picks in the late 50's for cash. That's not cute.
This team has no business selling picks.
As for the new owners, I can't really lay blame at their feet but so much because the front office still consists of the 'old' regime with Thorn, Witte, and DiLeo. But on second thought, though it's hard to blame them for it, they are the ones that kept those 'old' guys around, though I would have made the same decision coming into a new situation with no knowledge of how the operation worked. I would have kept some basketball minds around too.
Just saying that I don't really look down on them for this draft because it's still the new boss is the same as the old boss because no front office changes have been made. And they're the guys calling the shots, at least with the draft.
Free agency is coming, but here we are after another draft and we still have no shooter and no legit big man. This is like 3 or 4 years and running. So frustrating. Holes continue to stay holes on the roster. With more holes coming up depending on what they do at PF.
Another tweener wing (that is at this point position-less), and a may be rotational big all while giving up a future 1st to get him, and some cash for a Euro to obviously spend on Baby Back ribs at Chili's.
Hell of a draft folks.....
He has elite size and athleticism for a small forward which is his defined position, he just has no offensive skills to speak of. And honestly, fans would have been generally satisfied if they had taken Arnett Moultrie at 15 and no one else. That they were able to get two prospects they thought very highly of isn't anything short of impressive. It's what you want to see out of a new front office, them getting the players that they think can develop in their system.
Except everything you said is basically moot because it's the same front office, not a new one.
And I shudder to use the phrase "anything short of impressive" when in the same breath it is mentioned that yet another draftee has "no offensive skills to speak of".
I'm open to both of these guys, but just collecting wings with no consistent shots and bigs that don't protect the paint or have low post games is puzzling. They never seem to draft for fit or need it seems.
I hate to be such a pessimist but it's going into the 30th year since I tasted the ultimate glory. Life doesn't go on forever you know...i guess Sixers mediocrity does though
Miles Plumlee going in the 1st round is shocking, but Miles Plumlee going before Perry Jones III is head-scratching. Indiana already has Tyler Hansbrough and Plumlee isn't even as good as him except at maybe setting screens. Glad I'm not an Indiana fan if I have to take some solace from tonight.
Plumlee measured very well for a big man in the NBA combine. I agree that his draft placement was a shocker but he's apparently a pretty athletic big man at least.
As for the Sixers, well, who knows. Obviously, some trades (and free agent signings) need to happen. I was happy that they picked up Moultrie at least. Harkless is a bit of a head scratcher even with a trade, but, at the time, I didn't think Thad would make the impact he did in his rookie year.
@SixersCEOAdam Your @Sixers worked phones hard all night. We sold the 54th pick, because we can talk to agents of several intriguing undrafted prospects.
Nice explanation, Adam.
Thorn on Harkless:
"We think he's a player, very young who's growth plates are still open, and we think he's going to get bigger. Eventually, we think he's going to be able to play two positions. With that and his athletic ability, we think this kid has too much potential to pass up."
"growth plates are still open"...is that taller, more filled out, both? Anyone know? I have never heard the terminology "growth plates".
The "growth plates" are areas of bones that allow for continued growth... usually, this means the bones can grow in length, and a bit in girth as well. No direct correlation to increased body bulk unfortunately... need to hit the weight room, increase quality calories and protein to accomplish that.
thanks for the info....
Maybe they are hoping he grows a couple of inches like Paul George who grew from 6'8" to 6'10".
Quite possible, but unless he bulks up considerably he will be too thin (and most probably weak) to play near the basket, box out, or play any time at power forward at the NBA level.
Doug Collins got himself another Thad Young. Good for Doug. Hopefully this one can defend and show up to a playoff series.
Well I can't wait to see how horrible the Iggy trade turns out to be...
I can't believe all the bitching and moaning tonight. We got longer and more athletic and they took a shot and moved up for a player [Moultrie], something we have wanted them to do for a while.
I believe passing on D. Johnson-Odom on the last pick signals that they expect Lou back here. Tk, I think Elton is back as a mentor for Moultrie and Iggy is here in the same role for Harkless.
My biggest concern in trading Iggy is who guards guys like Lebron come playoff time but Harkless is a good option and was talked about as a possible #8 pick to Toronto.
The two veterans [Elton and Iggy] may have their inexpensive replacements in place [4 million?] combined salaries compared to 33 million currently so any free agent additions, when Elton and Iggy leave can fill in the blanks.
I can come out and say I've never watched Harkless play in my life, other than a 6 minute vid on draft express and some tweets about the guy, I'm pretty much in the dark about this kid and I'm eager to find out what he can do. How come more people can't go into it with that mind set?
Like I don't really get the apoplectic response to the pick, I understand they didn't pick for "need", but maybe that's good...perhaps they realize they're not in a position to draft for need.
After Ross and Henson went off the board, I didn't really see anyone that was an obvious choice...
They took a project, he certainly has the tools to be a good player, I'm going with the wait and see approach on this one.
Henson going off really pissed me off but moving up to get him and trading an asset there, or taking Harkless and using an asset for Moultrie will come out one way or another a couple years from now.
Giving that last pick away when guys like K.Jones, D.Johnson-Odom and H.Thompson were on the board pissed me off a bit but now hopefully they target an undrafted free agent [Casper Ware?] that can make the roster and contribute down the road.
Story (with video): Sixers wind up with pair of first-rounders in Harkless, Moultrie:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/sixers-land-harkless-moultrie-in-first-round/article_12518c7b-e184-5071-aad2-ed1629f0c7ac.html
I think in a couple of days people might start warming up to this pick. I think I'm there already actually.
Last year people were really intrigued by Singleton and Leonard as potential 3's that could replace Iggy down the line...
Isn't that what this pick is?
Did the playoff run delude everyone into thinking this team could draft need rather than BPA?
I guess some are frustrated that they didn't move up for Drummond, and I get that, but he's no sure thing either.
Just have to ask yourself, were they really in a position to draft for need?
I wish they had addressed their shooting woes, but maybe that's coming up this summer through trades and free agency...
Went to sleep, woke up, and now i am even more boggled with everything that happened than i was yesterday.
It's not so much about the picks themselves. The only guy i liked left when they drafted at #15 was Sullinger and i understand why they didn't take him. A decision that will haunt them for a long time i think, but probably shouldn't factor too much in how they did in the draft.
Harkless at #15 is a bit of a reach i think, but not by much. As a prospect he is perfectly fine. As a fit with the team he is horrendous.
I hated Moultrie at 15, but that was mostly because there were other guys that i liked and hoped would be there. At 27 though he is good value, even if he turns into Speights 2.0, which is his most likely scenario. I thought they gave up too much for him, even though this draft is regarded as extremely deep and a late first rounder this year is probably worth a mid first rounder in another.
As for selling #54 i couldn't care less. The chance they will get something of true value there is extremely slim. They might as well get an even better guy from the undrafted pool. Was a bit mad they gave up #45 since Papanikolau was available.
All in all, the real problem with the whole draft is what this all means. If they were trying to win now, this is not the way to do it. They drafted 2 of the biggest projects in the draft. If they were trying to fully rebuild, they would have traded Iguodala for a pick. That's the way you rebuild. If they drafted best player available there is now way Harkless is the BPA at #15 with Sullinger and Zeller left on the board.
We thought we will get answers. Instead we got more questions than ever. What is the end game???
So current roster:
Holiday
Turner
Iguodala / Harkless
Young / Moultrie
Vucevic
with Lou, Hawes, Allen and Meeks as free agents and Brand a very likely amnesty candidate. Iguodala is technically the only true veteran on the team. This roster is begging for a full rebuild.
Like the draft. LIke the selection of Harkless. Big upside. Shot well in workouts. Would've been satisfied with Moultrie at 15. So, they may have given up that pick for him in next year's draft. Have Iggy & Brand's eventual replacements. Could keep them both and groom the replacements this year. Give the sixers a B+ for their selections.
From NBADRAFT.NET:
I don’t think Philly could have gotten more when you consider their draft position. In a few years, I see Moe Harkless as one of the steals of this year's draft. Incredibly smooth, long and athletic, Harkless has a power forward’s interior feel with a small forward's mobility. Though his jumper takes on criticism, the mechanics are there and so is the work ethic. While this was a great upside pick at #15, it doesn’t compare to the value they got at #27. Arnett Moultrie has lottery tools, including 6’11 size, elite athleticism and jumper that’s unappreciated. He also led the SEC in rebounding. I would have liked the selection if they got him at #15. Philly didn’t have a pick in the lottery and landed two studs. Exceptional draft work by a top notch scouting organization.
Interestingly enough most of the "experts" have rated the Sixers draft as very good.
And almost all of the fans are enraged.
Just another day in Sixerland.
i dont mind the picks, they went for upside which they havent done under collins until this year
I am not enraged.
Hence "almost all" :).
Anyway i am at peace with everything that happened. The more i think about it the more i like what they did. They went for upside and didn't waste their biggest asset.
This has to be the start of a rebuild though right? I wonder what those who think Collins has all the power and he only wants to make win now moves think.
Yeah, I think that's bullshit. Harkless tops out as a sixth man, and probably winds up having to play the four because he has no jumper and no handle. Whoever said he's a righty Thad Young hit the nail on the head.
Brian,
You're not being consistent. One would have hoped the apocalyptic posts you made about Vuce pick had tempered this type of anger.
1. Before the draft you're on record wanting athletes above all else. The Sixers went athletic.
2. You said before the pick that there was no one left that you wanted. That alone should tell you that the 15 isn't that special and therefore you shouldn't complain about them trading a 15 away in a draft thought to be worse next year. It should also have resulted in you managing expectations.
3. You think Turner stinks. Perhaps the Sixers do as well and Harkness isn't playing with Turner. Even if they try Turner as the 2 to start, if you're so sure he's going to fail, then it's better we draft as if he's not part of the picture.
I think this is an amazing site and I think you have a rare skillset that really keeps me coming back, but your draft analysis has been lacking lately as it's overcome by emotion.
PS - Have no idea if Harkness is a good pick or not, most experts like it. Hollinger doesn't, but Hollinger liked a lot of guys you didn't.
I've been consistent in saying I want/they need two things: (1) Shooting (2) A big who can defend and dunk.
They got a big who can dunk, which is good, but the Harkless pick really does nothing for me. With no jumper and no handle, he's going to be a small four. Even if he works on his offensive game and really develops it, best case he's a three who you need to surround with shooters.
Basically, I think these are two more bench guys and aren't really going to contribute to a contending team in any meaningful way. The #1 pick next season was an asset, I'm not sure either of these guys really is.
You are right that I've been too emotional about the draft, though.
It's sports, it's fanaticism, everyone is overly emotional
You wanna see emotional - check out the places you are loathe to go
As far as I'm concerned, this is the tamest least emotional internet sixer discussion anywhere
and even when emotional it's (mostly) intelligent
I think you meant "apoplectic", not "apocalyptic".
What's not funny about Harkless is that we (ok I was at least) were all worried they'd take Terrence Jones - another Thad Young clone. They passed on Terrence thankfully.
Brian> do you mean Harkless tops out as a sixth man for the next two years or that is his career arc?
I like Moultrie at 27 but I shuttered when I read he could also "step out and shoot the 3 a little". Great.
No, I think Harkless tops out as a sixth man for his career. Don't think he's a legit three in the NBA and you can't start him at the four. He's Thad, except with no left instead of no right.
The only shock for me last night was the hysterical reaction from the fans here. The Sixers were not in a great position to get a top 6 player unless they traded Iguodala, which would have been a mistake, unless it was for Davis. The Harkless pick was smart, they went for best player, which is almost always preferable to picking for need. The need is talent. This guy has an incredible physique and great speed. He handles the ball well. He will learn to shoot - he's 19 with good mechanics.
As for Moultrie, he's exactly what we need, an athletic big who can rebound. The Speights comparisons are off-base. Moultrie is a worker and his make-up appears to be the opposite of Speights'. I don't get it. I would have been happy if they took him at 15, though I sort of wanted Jones. Pretty good draft. They had the 15th pick, no way to trade up without giving up their best player (no team wanted to part with a top 10 pick for Turner or Thad or any combination plus the 1st rounder, that was obvious), and the big guys were falling like crazy. They got a guy with real NBA talent and a quality rebounder late in the first round. If the future pick turns out to be in the teens, they didn't lose anything, he would have been picked there anyway, just a year or two earlier. And they're both high-effort guys.
And please don't tell me that Harkless was a reach. The Celtics would have snapped him up and Ainge would have been crowing about how he was the athlete they needed and the guy they were hoping would be there.
I thought Ross would go in the top 10. You're not going to trade Iguodala & 15 for him, are you? No.
And some of you are going to become Hornets fans because they didn't trade for Drummond? Cracks me up.
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