A comment last night from TK76 got me thinking. Let's assume the Sixers make no significant moves this Summer. Say they fill out their roster with Dionte Christmas and a few low-impact veteran minimum contracts. What would that mean for the 2009-2010 season? I'll give you some of the factors to consider after the jump, then have at it in the comments and vote in the poll.
Let's assume this is your 10-man rotation and the final two guys on the active roster won't see much action:
PG: Williams, Holiday
SG: Iguodala, Green
SF: Thad, Kapono
PF: Brand, Speights
C: Dalembert, Smith
Here are things we need to take into account, questions that need to be answered:
Eddie Jordan vs. Tony DiLeo/Mo Cheeks as coach
Losing Miller
Gaining Brand/Smith
The team's willingness to play Iguodala, Thad and Brand at the 2,3,4
The team's possible insistence on playing Brand at the 5
Learning and implementing the Princeton offense
Very, very little PG experience on the team
Dalembert's reaction to a reduced role
Team defense if Dalembert's minutes are significantly cut
The maturation of the young core (Thad, Iguodala, Speights, Lou)
Jrue Holiday's learning curve
Changes in the Eastern Conference (have the Cavs, Magic, Pistons improved themselves with major moves. Boston is a year older)
Weigh those factors and give me a super-early prediction for the Sixers' win total in the poll below. As usual, we'll use the comments to discuss this as well as the happenings around the league throughout the day.
I think we need to get a point guard no matter what, which will probably result in us re-signing Miller (perhaps over-paying or giving him a longer deal than we should). Lou is not a feasible point guard option, he has always played like an SG.
With this lineup without a legitimate point (as Holiday may not be ready yet) I think this team will not make the playoffs.
Brevin Knight would do at the point I guess when it comes to making the playoffs. But definitely not Lou. However the team has gotten to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row. It's about time we take the next step, which is winning a series.
The Princeton offense doesn't really need it. Iggy is a very good facilitator. Make sure Kapono gets some minutes (to keep the opposition from packing it in) and I think we'd be fine. Especially, if Thad can improve his shooting. I think this wouldn't be bad as there would be meaningful minutes for Holiday.
I do have some worries about them not doing Iggy at SG, Thad at SF and Brand at PF. I'm concerned they'll do to much with Iggy at SF, Thad at PF and Brand at C. I think the defense and rebounding would be worse.
I have NO problem with your scenerio, give Holliday some quality minutes and answer the L.Will. questions for good.And also ,the ball will be in Elton,Iggy and Thad!s hands for a lot more minutes, which should allow Thad!s confidence to grow,and Iggy may get more 2 guard minutes to alleviate the pressure off our p.g.!s . A win-win situation and as far as wins, who knows how this young group reacts to this oppurtunity, they may flourish.
Doesn't the PO call for much, much fewer ISO plays? Basically quick two and three-man sets, with passes and player movement, right? If Lou is constantly dribbling the shot clock down, I have a feeling Jordan will be cutting his minutes.
I think the odds are slim that we'll head into the season without another PG added to the roster. May have another SG too. If it started today, though, I bet this would be the lineup, unfortunately.
I think the team needs to pass on Miller! Again, if it's true that a pure PG isn't needed to effectively run the Princeton offense, sign Bibby or Knight to a 1-2 year deal (preferably 1) then fill in the missing pieces by trading Dalembert's/his expiring contract next season...done!
I think that we should give Mike Bibby a 3-year MLE deal. We may have to wait a little bit (at least until the PG situation in Portland clears up), but that is OK. This summer's FA could turn out a lot like what happened this winter in MLB, where there were a few deals at the start, but then the bottom fell out on the market and there were good players scrambling to find a seat to sit in when the music went off.
Bibby can be our Bobby Abreu.
Only 31 years old. Knows the Princeton offense cold. Plus-3-point shooter. Should be a great mentor for this offense for Holiday and the rest of the young guys. For the first two years, we should have no problem getting our moneys worth out of him...and while I know that many people don't want any of these guys to get a 3rd year (which goes past when Dalembert, Green and Kapono roll off), it's not like the projected FA class of 2011 is SO hot that we should pass on Bibby because we don't want to give him that 3rd year.
A 3-year deal, with the 3rd year being a player option (in case he wants another shot at FA) might do the trick.
I'm kind of sick of player options. Why does every other team wind up with team options and/or contracts that aren't fully guaranteed but the Sixers give all the power to the players in the contracts?
Just a mini-rant against ETOs, nothing against your plan.
mutual options are pretty much never exercised in baseball. both sides are never happy at the end of a contract, someone always wants out. may as well just make the deal for one year less.
There's usually a buy out amount though so the player still gets 'something' at the end of the deal - just easier for teams to get out of but still gives the player some control :)
I hear you, bro...just trying to come up with a way to get Bibby here for two years - that's all. It seems like a proposal that has something for both sides - it give Bibby the flexibility to go back out there in 2011, when the market may very well be better than this summer (which would be fine with us).
Because if the POR deal falls through and we can't get Bibby, the next year or two could be a bit u-g-l-y...but if Bibby is here, we continue to develop the kids and win games at the same time.
The obvious answer is that Bibby knows the PO very well...but to be fair, Miller is a smart enough player that I'm sure that he could pick it up relatively quickly...but I do still prefer Bibby's knowledge of the offense...Bibby is two years younger - which may not be a lot now, but it gives me more comfort that Bibby won't run out of gas in April like Miller did in the '08 playoffs (he did seem to hold up better this year, though). Miller's offense in the half-court tends to be a lot of iso's and posts, which really isn't a staple of the PO (which tends to be more 2-man and 3-man games). This offense requires a lot of movement, cutting, screening...and - again - while I am sure that Miller can learn to incorporate this in his game, Bibby has done this before, and I think his game flows better that way.
I can picture, for example, a Holiday/Bibby backcourt at times next season...with Bibby being the off-the-ball shooter...while I have trouble picturing a Holiday/Miller backcourt. Not a big thing, mind you, but it probably would be helpful at times for the other guard who is out there with Holiday to 1) be able to review - on the court - what he is doing right and wrong, and 2) be able to coexist out there with him without hurting the team.
I'd be very happy if we could pull this off. Bibby would work very well on this team for the next two or three years, particularly if we only have to pay him the MLE.
Any chance Ed's thinking about moving in this direction?
They can qualify for the playoffs next year as is but they will have about the same number of wins this year as last. Offense will be a little better. Defense will be worse and they'll exit in the first round.
This seems about right to me, as currently constructed. Depending on how the young guys develop and what kind of matchup they get in the first round could go a little better or a little worse.
I don't believe as currently constructed this would be a 500 team in the east...but that's just me...huge step back at point guard, new coach, new system, new players...just wouldn't happen to me
Good news for Brian from the Houston Chronicle - it seems Houston doesn't believe in negotiation.
There’s also a tough-love side to this story. Gortat’s agent mentioned wanting a full mid-level exception. That amounts to around $30 million over five years. The Rockets aren’t offering nearly that much and apparently aren’t prepared to go higher. They’ve assigned a value to Gortat, and if, say, the Mavericks are offering more, the Rockets are prepared to lose him
I wonder what the offer was. I wish the Sixers would just offer him the max mid-level and be done w/ it. If goes somewhere else, fine, at least you gave it your best shot.
According to the hoopshype summaries today he not only wants serious minutes he wants to play in a place he htinks is close to contending - along with - you know- the MLE money thing.
If Houston is going to be one of those hard line 'we don't negotiate' teams - i think long run that's bad for them
Money talks. If one team offers him the full mle for 5 years, that's where he goes. I'd put money on it. The other factors won't matter unless there are equal offers.
Just thinking... As Brian says, right now we've got...
PG: Williams, Holiday
SG: Iguodala, Green
SF: Thad, Kapono
PF: Brand, Speights
C: Dalembert, Smith
With this in mind, consider how close we are to having a really respectable lineup. Sign Gortat with the MLE and trade Lou for even a half decent point guard and we've got...
PG: PointGuard, Holiday
SG: Iguodala, Green
SF: Thad, Kapono
PF: Brand, Speights
C: Gortat, Dalembert, Smith
Add a cheap shooting guard (maybe Dionte Christmas) to back up Iggy and Green and we've got something going here. Heck, if I didn't live in a different state, I'd buy season tickets to watch that group perform.
Just adding Gortat would be ideal, as far as I'm concerned. Makes you better in the short and long term, means you can trade Sam for garbage without hurting the team.
If I had some cash I'd lay about 500 bucks on the 'anti' cavs win the chmapionship bet...I'll take the field over the cavs still...hell I'll take the magic and celtics over the cavs in the east right now
Probably, the 'positive' premise that either of these guys could 'surprise' going forward seems a bit lame...he did call out the Hamilton extension.
Personally, if I were dumars, I would have surveyed the market and done nothing - or MAYBE signed one gy - but not for 5 years - and maneuvered for next year.
I thik Lebron would go to detroit if the money was there...
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I think we need to get a point guard no matter what, which will probably result in us re-signing Miller (perhaps over-paying or giving him a longer deal than we should). Lou is not a feasible point guard option, he has always played like an SG.
With this lineup without a legitimate point (as Holiday may not be ready yet) I think this team will not make the playoffs.
How good of a pg do you think they need to make the playoffs? Just a vet with experience (brevin knight) or more of a starter-quality guy?
Brevin Knight would do at the point I guess when it comes to making the playoffs. But definitely not Lou. However the team has gotten to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row. It's about time we take the next step, which is winning a series.
I don't think we need a pure PG.
The Princeton offense doesn't really need it. Iggy is a very good facilitator. Make sure Kapono gets some minutes (to keep the opposition from packing it in) and I think we'd be fine. Especially, if Thad can improve his shooting. I think this wouldn't be bad as there would be meaningful minutes for Holiday.
I do have some worries about them not doing Iggy at SG, Thad at SF and Brand at PF. I'm concerned they'll do to much with Iggy at SF, Thad at PF and Brand at C. I think the defense and rebounding would be worse.
I have NO problem with your scenerio, give Holliday some quality minutes and answer the L.Will. questions for good.And also ,the ball will be in Elton,Iggy and Thad!s hands for a lot more minutes, which should allow Thad!s confidence to grow,and Iggy may get more 2 guard minutes to alleviate the pressure off our p.g.!s . A win-win situation and as far as wins, who knows how this young group reacts to this oppurtunity, they may flourish.
"also, the ball will be in Elton, Iggy and Thad's hands for a lot more minutes"
Not if Lou has anything to say about it... king ballhog.
Well, if you were on the court with Ivey, Evans and the 2nd team line-up the Sixers used last year I think some ball hogging is understandable.
I agree Lou is not a pass 1st PG, but maybe he will contribute more surrounded with other legit offensive weapons.
Doesn't the PO call for much, much fewer ISO plays? Basically quick two and three-man sets, with passes and player movement, right? If Lou is constantly dribbling the shot clock down, I have a feeling Jordan will be cutting his minutes.
What do you suppose the lineup looks like with Iggy at the three as it seems they're insisting things will be at least through December?
Good question. As currently constructed, my money would be on this starting lineup if they insist on Iguodala at the three, etc:
PG: Lou
SG: Kapono
SF: Iguodala
PF: Thad
C: Brand
Wow - 2 bench players and 3 guys out of position
That would be awesome :)
Yep.
Honestly if they're going to start an inexperienced point guard - might as well just throw holiday in the deep end from day one.
I think the odds are slim that we'll head into the season without another PG added to the roster. May have another SG too. If it started today, though, I bet this would be the lineup, unfortunately.
I think the team needs to pass on Miller! Again, if it's true that a pure PG isn't needed to effectively run the Princeton offense, sign Bibby or Knight to a 1-2 year deal (preferably 1) then fill in the missing pieces by trading Dalembert's/his expiring contract next season...done!
I think that we should give Mike Bibby a 3-year MLE deal. We may have to wait a little bit (at least until the PG situation in Portland clears up), but that is OK. This summer's FA could turn out a lot like what happened this winter in MLB, where there were a few deals at the start, but then the bottom fell out on the market and there were good players scrambling to find a seat to sit in when the music went off.
Bibby can be our Bobby Abreu.
Only 31 years old. Knows the Princeton offense cold. Plus-3-point shooter. Should be a great mentor for this offense for Holiday and the rest of the young guys. For the first two years, we should have no problem getting our moneys worth out of him...and while I know that many people don't want any of these guys to get a 3rd year (which goes past when Dalembert, Green and Kapono roll off), it's not like the projected FA class of 2011 is SO hot that we should pass on Bibby because we don't want to give him that 3rd year.
A 3-year deal, with the 3rd year being a player option (in case he wants another shot at FA) might do the trick.
I'm kind of sick of player options. Why does every other team wind up with team options and/or contracts that aren't fully guaranteed but the Sixers give all the power to the players in the contracts?
Just a mini-rant against ETOs, nothing against your plan.
I like mutual options, I think the NBA should institute them, they're fine and more fair in my opinion and gives everyone a fair way out...
I personally can't accept any miller deal that doesn't give the sixers the chance to end it after 2 years
mutual options are pretty much never exercised in baseball. both sides are never happy at the end of a contract, someone always wants out. may as well just make the deal for one year less.
There's usually a buy out amount though so the player still gets 'something' at the end of the deal - just easier for teams to get out of but still gives the player some control :)
That's basically just a partially-guaranteed deal. I'm fine w/ those.
I hear you, bro...just trying to come up with a way to get Bibby here for two years - that's all. It seems like a proposal that has something for both sides - it give Bibby the flexibility to go back out there in 2011, when the market may very well be better than this summer (which would be fine with us).
Because if the POR deal falls through and we can't get Bibby, the next year or two could be a bit u-g-l-y...but if Bibby is here, we continue to develop the kids and win games at the same time.
Why do you prefer bibby over miller? is it's jut the 3 point numbers?
The obvious answer is that Bibby knows the PO very well...but to be fair, Miller is a smart enough player that I'm sure that he could pick it up relatively quickly...but I do still prefer Bibby's knowledge of the offense...Bibby is two years younger - which may not be a lot now, but it gives me more comfort that Bibby won't run out of gas in April like Miller did in the '08 playoffs (he did seem to hold up better this year, though). Miller's offense in the half-court tends to be a lot of iso's and posts, which really isn't a staple of the PO (which tends to be more 2-man and 3-man games). This offense requires a lot of movement, cutting, screening...and - again - while I am sure that Miller can learn to incorporate this in his game, Bibby has done this before, and I think his game flows better that way.
I can picture, for example, a Holiday/Bibby backcourt at times next season...with Bibby being the off-the-ball shooter...while I have trouble picturing a Holiday/Miller backcourt. Not a big thing, mind you, but it probably would be helpful at times for the other guard who is out there with Holiday to 1) be able to review - on the court - what he is doing right and wrong, and 2) be able to coexist out there with him without hurting the team.
I'd be very happy if we could pull this off. Bibby would work very well on this team for the next two or three years, particularly if we only have to pay him the MLE.
Any chance Ed's thinking about moving in this direction?
They can qualify for the playoffs next year as is but they will have about the same number of wins this year as last. Offense will be a little better. Defense will be worse and they'll exit in the first round.
This seems about right to me, as currently constructed. Depending on how the young guys develop and what kind of matchup they get in the first round could go a little better or a little worse.
I don't believe as currently constructed this would be a 500 team in the east...but that's just me...huge step back at point guard, new coach, new system, new players...just wouldn't happen to me
54% of voters already see that roster at 500 or above?
Interesting, I don't think that's possible with that point guard duo, not next year.
If they don't sign any veteran back court guy just to get another body there, it's aggravating.
I can't see a weak point rotation such as that combined with a center in this offense having a winning record. So many adjustments have to go right.
Good news for Brian from the Houston Chronicle - it seems Houston doesn't believe in negotiation.
There’s also a tough-love side to this story. Gortat’s agent mentioned wanting a full mid-level exception. That amounts to around $30 million over five years. The Rockets aren’t offering nearly that much and apparently aren’t prepared to go higher. They’ve assigned a value to Gortat, and if, say, the Mavericks are offering more, the Rockets are prepared to lose him
I wonder what the offer was. I wish the Sixers would just offer him the max mid-level and be done w/ it. If goes somewhere else, fine, at least you gave it your best shot.
According to the hoopshype summaries today he not only wants serious minutes he wants to play in a place he htinks is close to contending - along with - you know- the MLE money thing.
If Houston is going to be one of those hard line 'we don't negotiate' teams - i think long run that's bad for them
Money talks. If one team offers him the full mle for 5 years, that's where he goes. I'd put money on it. The other factors won't matter unless there are equal offers.
RUMOR: The Sixers send Samuel Dalembert and his $23.6 million contract to the Rockets for Tracy McGrady and his $23.2 million deal
What do we make of this?!
Tweeted by: http://digitalsportsdaily.com/
Probably not true because the salaries clearly don't match...but let's hope.
See Brian - Told you :)
Bet if you trace it back it goes back to that same article of journalist 'spit balling' :)
I can't find it on their site, but I'd guess it's just a recycled rumor from the other day.
which wasn't a rumor at all...so it hits twitter, everyone re-twits it (check a dalembert search) and sooner or later it's going to hit ESPN
Collins doesn't want to coach the Pistons. Smart man.
My guess is that the pistons privately said 'no thanks doug' and collins publicly pulls out saving 'face'
The Sixers are now a 60/1 shot to win the championship.
apparently the suns, hawks, pistons, heat, and bulls have a better chance to win than us
Just thinking... As Brian says, right now we've got...
PG: Williams, Holiday
SG: Iguodala, Green
SF: Thad, Kapono
PF: Brand, Speights
C: Dalembert, Smith
With this in mind, consider how close we are to having a really respectable lineup. Sign Gortat with the MLE and trade Lou for even a half decent point guard and we've got...
PG: PointGuard, Holiday
SG: Iguodala, Green
SF: Thad, Kapono
PF: Brand, Speights
C: Gortat, Dalembert, Smith
Add a cheap shooting guard (maybe Dionte Christmas) to back up Iggy and Green and we've got something going here. Heck, if I didn't live in a different state, I'd buy season tickets to watch that group perform.
Just adding Gortat would be ideal, as far as I'm concerned. Makes you better in the short and long term, means you can trade Sam for garbage without hurting the team.
Anyone else super-psyched for the douchebag show during the pregame of every Cavs game this season?
If I had some cash I'd lay about 500 bucks on the 'anti' cavs win the chmapionship bet...I'll take the field over the cavs still...hell I'll take the magic and celtics over the cavs in the east right now
Did you think Hollinger took it kind of easy on Dumars in his column today?
Probably, the 'positive' premise that either of these guys could 'surprise' going forward seems a bit lame...he did call out the Hamilton extension.
Personally, if I were dumars, I would have surveyed the market and done nothing - or MAYBE signed one gy - but not for 5 years - and maneuvered for next year.
I thik Lebron would go to detroit if the money was there...