I've talked about my belief in the core of this team. This season has whittled it down to its purest form. Two players, an honest-to-goodness pure point guard and a swing capable of playing the two or the three. Between then, they can effectively guard four positions on the floor. If things progress as I believe they could, they could easily average 35 points, 10+ boards and 10+ assists per game between them. After the jump, let's take a look around the league and see how Andre Iguodala and Jrue Holiday would measure up, should they reach their potential together.
I hate getting ahead of myself, especially when so much can change, but this season has me so drained I need something to look forward to. I'll preface this post by saying Jrue Holiday is only 19 years-old, plenty needs to go right for him to reach his full potential, including this franchise finding the right coach, making smart decisions to surround him with the right players and Jrue needs to put in the work. On the same note, Andre Iguodala may not even be around past this summer. If a decent chunk of the team's fans have their way, he won't be.
Forget about all of that for a second and let's talk about the combo of Holiday and Iguodala, and where they'd match up with other perimeter duos around the league. With a properly constructed roster (read as, a primary scorer at the 2/3 capable of shooting from the outside and big(s) who can set screens, defend, rebound, and convert easy opportunities on the inside), I believe we could count on 17-18ppg from each guy, 5-6 reb/g from Iguodala, 3-5 reb/game from Jrue, 5-6 assists/game from AI9 and 7-10 assists/game from Jrue. On top of those numbers, you could probably chalk up 3 steals per game and maybe a block and a half, not to mention top-notch defense on the opposing team's two best perimeter players.
The time frame? They
could reach those numbers next season, but I think they may be somewhat hollow with the scoring being somewhat inefficient and the turnovers would hurt as well. I'm thinking the following season, Jrue's third in the league, second as a full-time starter and Iguodala's age 28 year. The important thing, and something I honestly don't think the team will address this summer, is that neither of these guys should be your primary scorer. They can be the two best on the team, and while each is more than capable of carrying the scoring load for stretches, there needs to be another guy who will be the primary beneficiary of the creation both of these guys are capable off the dribble. When they get that third guy, things will click on the offensive end and we should see super-efficient scoring to go along with the ancillary stats.
Anyway, in that time frame other teams will obviously shake up their personnel, but here's a quick look at the best two perimeter players from each team, you tell me where this ideal Iguodala/Holiday tandem would stack up:
- Boston - Rondo, Pierce
- Toronto - J. Jack, DeRozen?
- New York - T. Douglas, ?
- New Jersey - D. Harris, C. Lee
- Washington - M. Miller, ?
- Miami - Wade, Beasley
- Orlando - V. Carter, J. Nelson
- Atlanta - M. Bibby, J. Johnson
- Charlotte - S. Jackson, G. Wallace
- Cleveland - M. Williams, L. James
- Chicago - D. Rose, K. Hinrich
- Milwaukee - B. Jennings, C. Delfino
- Indiana - M. Dunleavy, D. Granger
- Detroit - B. Gordon, R. Stuckey
- LA Lakers - Kobe, Artest
- Phoenix - Nash, J. Richardson
- LA Clippers - B. Davis, E. Gordon
- Sacramento - T. Evans, B. Udrih
- Golden State - S. Curry, M. Ellis
- Utah - D. Williams, A. Kirilenko
- Denver - C. Billups, C. Anthony
- OKC - R. Westbrook, K. Durant
- Portland - B. Roy, A. Miller
- Minnesota - J. Flynn, C. Brewer
- Dallas - J. Kidd, S. Marion
- Spurs - T. Parker, M. Ginobili
- Memphis - O. Mayo, R. Gay
- Houston - K. Martin, A. Brooks
- New Orleans - C. Paul, M. Thornton
Of the pairs listed, there are plenty who easily top the scoring potential of AI9/JH. Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis are probably a safe bet to put the most points on the board. As far as defense, you'd probably have to give the nod to Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace. Overall, if we're talking about winning now and I'm choosing any two, I'd think long and hard about Chauncey and Melo, same with Artest and Kobe, but at the end of the day, I'd take LeBron and anyone. When you look at this list as a whole, though, can you seriously find more than 3 or 4 pairs you'd take over a duo providing what I've projected above for AI/JH?
I fully realize the odds are against these two guys reaching their full potential in Philadelphia, but let's look past that for a minute and consider what we would have if they were allowed to. Versatile contributors are hard to find in this league. Versatile contributors who know how to play within themselves for the good of the team, and utilize their possessions to score efficiently are rarer still. Add in elite defense from both guys and you absolutely have something to build around.
Probably similar but not as good as Kidd/Jefferson in their prime. But then again they had VC and a few other good players on that roster.
After Thad getting worse every year since his rookie year, I find it difficult to get too excited about Jrue.
Iguodala is well worth the money he makes IMO and is one of the most productive SG/SFs in the game in large part due to his ability to play huge minutes and never miss a game.
If Jrue can mildly improve over what he has done in the 2nd half and stay healthy year in year out, they will be a formidable duo and maybe could scatch my top 5.
Boston, Miami, Charlotte, Cleveland, LA, Utah, Denver, OKC, Portland, Dallas, Spurs, New Orleans.
My top 5 would be Cleveland, New Orleans, OKC, Miami, and Dallas probably.
Lots of well-rounded stars and the somehow still awesome Jason Kidd.
When you look at Jrue and Thad...
Thad was always a one dimensional scorer who we hoped would round out his game. His greatest strength was taking advantage of being left handed. But teams can take that away.
Jrue is already well rounded. his greatest strength is he has no real weaknesses. He is completely ambidextrous when he drives. he has shown a solid jumper and and ability to finish inside. He also has good court awareness and is pass first.
While Thad needs to add to his game top be more effective, Jrue will improve simply with experience unless he actually regresses in terms of his skill set. But a lot has to do with him maintaining his solid jumper. If the jumper gets worse then teams can take away his drives and go under picks. However, his jumper looks solid.
Thad is also undersized at his best position (PF), while he has to greatly add to his skill set to become a good SF. While Jrue, even at 19, has good size and strength for his position- and will only improve in this regard.
There was questions coming in whether Jrue was a true PG versus a combo guard- because he (was forced) to play SG in college. these were legit questions since he had yet to prove himself as a PG at the collegiate level. And being a HS PG does not always translate to the NBA. I'd say he has answered these concerns.
So the main issues for Jrue going forward are:
1. Does he improve when his teammates are better and the games mean more.
-I say yes. Unlike Iguodala, who is a wing player who needs the ball, Jrue is a PG who can be pass first. If teammates draw more attention it should open things up for him.
2. Will teams be able to gameplan for Jrue and take him out of the offense?
-Maybe. If Jrue is the only option it will hurt him. The better his teammates the better Jrue will look. So if Iguodala and Sam are traded this summer I think it will hurt Jrue's chances to improve in the short term.
3. Can Jrue maintain his jumper?
-It comes down to confidence and good shot selection. Again, the more weapons he has to pass to the better his shot selection, and jumper will be.
While I am probably wrong, I will assume the following comment yesterday provoked today's blog. A BIG Thankyou:
"Thankfully our coach left Green and Lou on the court with AI9 and Jrue or we would have won that game. I would really enjoy watching AI9 and Jrue play with some "real" NBA players."
I do not see Jrue regressing next year, comparing Thad are Jrue are like comparing apples and oranges.
Agreed. We shall see how Stefanski chooses to value them not by who he drafts, but about how they move the other pieces and free agent signings.
I like our prospects going forward with our young perimeter combo if the right management mindset is put in place. I believe what success Charlotte has in the playoffs this year could put in place a new direction for our front office. It has been said in 2001 that we got to the finals because the eastern conference was weak, but it is STRONG this year so if Charlotte can get into the 2nd or possible 3rd round maybe modeling ourselves after our 2001 team is the way to go.
Draft a long defensive big [Udoh?] who combined with Elton gives T.Hill like production. Resign Sam and sign a veteran defensive center [Voskuhl?] to play physical defense [10 min. per game] Geiger? . Trade Marreese,Thad,a future #1 and Willies exp. for Montae, [A.I.?], bring in the best 3pt./def. combo vet. s.g. [R.Mason?] to play McKie!s role; Lou can do what L.Hughes did off the bench and get the best young defensive mind in the league to coach this group.
Each future draft replace the older parts [Voskuhl, Mason] with young guys that played defense in college and create a Spurs like defensive mindset going forward.
If Charlotte gets out of the first round it'll be a minor miracle - they are freaking TERRIBLE on the road.
I will be watching their series with curiousity to see if their way of doing it can work though. Hubie Brown yesterday talked about how Boston and Cleveland will have to play Dwight one on one to beat the Magic and how Shaq was brought in to do that.We have some good defensive pieces and with Dwight, Lebron and probably a Lopez/Wall combo in our conference for the next 10 years can we really expect to be conventional, as far as thinking, that we can build a team to outscore those type of talents with Jrue and Iggy!s strengths being the other end?
Your Blatche video was tremendous, fkn hilarious. My favorite part was when he asked Yi to let him grab the board!
Mggee I hope that you join our fantasy league next season it will make for some good banter.
i admire your goal . however im not sure a poor man's version of our Eastern Conference Championship team is going to get it done. the East was very weak back in the day. its great the sixers and bucks made the final-4 but that doesnt make them top 4 teams.
I think how the Sixers proceed depends upon where they land in the lottery. First pick is a no-brainer. You draft Wall and make Jrue and him share. Second pick is more interesting. That's predicted to be Evan Turner and he has tremendous all-around potential. If they get that one, I don't see how they pass him up. If they get him, Thad becomes expendable and I still think Thad is worth a later first round draft pick. Then, maybe they can go after another center. I like Udoh but there are some others with promise if he isn't available.
A poor man!s version? Perhaps, but the whole key is getting a coach with a vision like Brown had about building around A.I. .Now getting a primary scorer is key.Ellis will never be A.I. but hopefully Jrue and Iggy can be far beyond what E.Snow and Lynch were and getting a big [Udoh?] that can defend the pick and role and rotate with Elton and Sam [24 minutes each] could allow for a lockdown defensive team.Replacing a guy like Lou with a guy like Afflalo off the bench are the kind of moves I would like to see going forward.
Iggy cab't play the two on offense
Jrue Holliday and OJ Mayo would form the best backcourt for the next decade. Make it happen, those clowns wanted to trade Mayo and thabeet for Monte Ellis and Iggy is a superior player to ellis.
Now that's what i'm talking about. Jrue + Mayo = best backcourt in the NBA for years to come (on both ends of the floor).
Why can't he?
AI9 at the SG position would be fine if we had a SF who was a great shooter. I still have some hope that Thad could be a shooter had he not been screwed up by the assistant coach but short of that should they draft Derrick Favor?
Derrick Favors is the #3 pick in the draft most likely (4th at worst) so if he's available when the sixers pick at 7 - something very bad happened.
And this doesn't asnwer the question as to why Iguodala can't defend shooting guards
The question was why can't he play the "2" on offense. He defends SG's pretty well.
I know this is crazy but if you hear it through it makes sense.
Iguodala and Brand to the raptors in a sign and trade for
Bosh and Turkuglou.
Toronto has always had a hard on for Iggy ever since they bypassed picking him for Araújo and Turk has one more year left then brand. As disapointed as we are in Brand, there just as disappointed in Turk.
The only problem is why would someone like Bosh want to sign in Philly? But as far as what the Raptors can get back in a sign in trade we have the most to offer. Go ahead and kill me now.
Sounds great. Won't happen.
while turkoglu's contract is bad, its not as bad as Brand's. The Turk maxes out at $12.2mm in 2013-14. brand maxes out at $18mm in 12-13. is there more potential success building around Bosh/Jrue/Hedo then AI/Jru/Brand? Maybe. Hedo at least can still produce where i think brand is almost a liability and injury prone
"The only problem is why would someone like Bosh want to sign in Philly?" --- his name is Jrue Holiday.
One good half season from one player isn't enough of a draw for Chris Bosh compared to his other likely options...
Mckie I agree with Magee that Jrue isn't a big enough sell for Bosh to come over but the only glimmer of hope is that if he does a sign and trade he would get more money then if he just signs outright with the knicks or miami.
A nuclues of Jrue, Bosh, turk, and Thad would be sexy. Shitty numbers or not the turk is cold blooded when it comes to big situations.
Turk is an overpriced Turk... just kidding, but he is overpriced. But Bosh is a stud. One level above Iguodala, one level below Lebron.
Toronto has buyers remorse over the Turk. If we have to throw in Speights then I would do it gladly. The questions is, can Toronto do better in a sign and trade then this?
If he wants more out of a sign and trade, then he'll end up in dallas
i guess living in South Beach and banging models every night might be a decent draw to some guys
There has to be some models floating around Philly for Bosh to Bang right?
As far as going to Dallas in a sign and trade I don't see Dallas having the necessary trade chips to get him.
No one really has the trade chips to give up for bosh and keep their team good - a sign and trade on an unrestricted free agent is just a 'favor' to them to max out their money.
Not to mention the tax breaks in Florida.
You got me there but like I said he would make more in a sign and trade with us then signing outright in Miami. But with the tax break to consider I don't know if thats true anymore.
ugggh, pipe dreams
Do something constructive Stefanski you world class doosche.
wade is a pretty big draw too. but in general, if im a young mult-millionaire athlete, i would want to be in Miami, NY, LA or Vegas (if they ever expand). thats where a young man gets the most fringe benefits off the court. im sure philly has some great women, but if you want to walk into a club that treats these guys like sultans in a harem, i think that crop of talent is in the places i mention above. im not advocating this lifestlye, but unless you are doug christie, i think a lot of athletes will enjoy it. look what happened in njust a few years to Wade's wholesome marriage to his high school sweetheart in miami - now he is an E Hollywood story. sorry a little off toipic here....
Hey Brian,
Do you think pretty Lou is going to get jealous now that Iggy has a new running mate?
http://www.hoopsaddict.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nba_g_iguodala-williams_580.jpg
Am i the only one that still holds out for Thad? He's 21 years old, and Randy Ayers broke his jumper. EJ has him playing all his minutes at the 4, and he runs around in a dumb defensive system like a chicken with his head cut off.
i have not given up on thad. the guy had a crappy year, but hopefully we can look back and attribute it to Eddie Jordan.
i hope everyone is watching duke/butler. really good first 1/2. i think its going to the wire
I said something similar a little earlier. If Ayers hadn't messed with him he might have picked up where he left off last year before the injury. Thad is not an inherently poor defender. He tends to overhelp, but has the athleticism to respond to proper defensive coaching. Among the current players, a lineup of Brand, Sam, Thad, Jrue and AI9 could be good on both ends of the court and that's without any draft lottery luck.
I don't think Elton Brand can be an effective starter on a quality team anymore. I see him as more of a philly max rotation guy. He can't rebound, his defense has been completely underwhelming, and I don't see any level of consistency on the offensive end. Thanks Stefanski.
I think I still might want to trade Iggy in the off season depending on what his value is on the market. This team is years away from competing.