Hoopsworld.com Chats
nate in new york: 76ers:Tayshaun Prince,Andray Blatche,Al Thornton,Yi Jianlian wizzards:Elton Brand,Andre Iguodala,Richard Hamilton pistons:Darius Songaila,Rashard Lewis what you think mr bill
Bill Ingram: The Sixers are saying they won't trade Iguodala . . .so this would be unlikely .
Jay in Philly: Bill, Iggy has been linked to Golden State and many other teams. What could GS give the Sixers? The young core of Holliday, Williams, Young, Turner are playing well. Is Iggy move-able or holding the crew together
Bill Ingram: Again, the Sixers are telling teams Iggy isn't available . . .and most teams aren't interested in the $44 million left on his contract, anyway. The right deal will always get some play, but right now GMs are being told the Sixers won't move Iggy . . .and we've heard that from half a dozen or more NBA GMs.
Jasn in Philadelphia: Coach - thoughts on the 76ers? Break it up and send Iggy away or keep him? Holliday, Turner, Young playing well with Brand.
Anthony Macri: Good question. I think they can do an entire team re-assessment. The only player there that is a lock to build around, in my opinion, is Jrue Holiday. He has enough talent and potential to be a top 5 point guard within the next 3-4 years (and there are a lot of really good points in the league right now). The rest can be jettisoned. I think we will see a really interesting dynamic start to take hold of the league: which franchises build through the draft (a la OKC) and which ones make free agency their golden calf (i.e., Miami). The 76ers are an interesting case study in quantum team-building theory.
Drake in : How is Iguadala a tripple double guy if he never hit a double tripple in one game...his shooting % is bad!
Luke Byrnes: Did I say he was? Anyway, Iggy can score, pass and rebound, so he is a triple-double threat. His game is that diverse.
Jeremy in Bay Roberts, NL: Who says no first, Bargnani to the clips for Kaman/DeAndre Jordan?? Thanks!
Eric Pincus: Jeremy, The Clippers are likely to keep Jordan on another contract. Kaman may leave now or later but not for a guy like Bargnani. Equally, he's the guy the Raptors are building around - they just need more pieces - a lot more pieces.
That's a non-starter.
Too Good to Be Jrue in Philadelphia, PA: How interested are the Clippers in Andre Iguodala? Bill Simmons tweeted that he would fit in nice with the Clippers.
Eric Pincus: Not as much as Carmelo or Danny Granger - but he's on their list of small forwards.
Frankie P in originally from Italy: Aside from Lamar and Lebron, who do you think are some of the top point-fowards right now?
Eric Pincus: You can argue that Tracy McGrady, Tayshaun Prince, Boris Diaw and some Andrei Kirilenko fit into that category. Manu Ginobili is really playing guard this year.
I'd say Andre Iguodala is your guy.
Chris in Philly, PA: Should the Lakers stop talking big trades, and maybe go after Iguodala in Philly? Somehow move Artest and let Iguodala take his place.
Eric Pincus: You lost me on the "somehow" - given that it's a real chore to come up with almost any trade with Artest going out - and a real trick to get the Sixers to trade Iguodala.
Jason in Philly: Eric, what's up with the 76ers? They are playing harder for Collins, but aren't going to be an elite team. Is it time to trade Iggy to GS or IND or DAL or LAC? What can we expect back?
Eric Pincus: No, they're not an elite team but that takes years to happen. Dealing one of your best players isn't always the solution but often a step back.
B-Eeez in : There are a lot of Iggy trade rumors, but what about Brand? Is he off the block or is there no interest?
Steve Kyler: Neither are on the block actually... everyone assumes the 76ers will trade Iguodala because of his contract... which overlooks the fact that everyone is pretty happy with Andre and the 76ers are sitting on the 7th playoff seed in the East.
They are not going to tear that up unless they get better and anyone willing to take on Andre's deal isn't going to give back a lot of talent improvement... same with Elton Brand who is leading the team in scoring, rebounding and blocks.
They are more likely to trade guys like Maresse Speights or Evan Turner than they are Iguodala or Brand, those guys are getting it done more nights than not.
willie in : hi are the magic going to move jrich expiring and if they did how about jrich for iggy and speight philly gets cap relief orlando gets a backup big with upside and a perimeter defender that can get his own shot
Steve Kyler: No... Jason Richardson is the guy they wanted when they broke up the team in December... Iguodala is owed too much for Orlando... Otis is committed to $74 million next season without J Rich on the books.
If a hard cap is coming Orlando is gonna have to eat at least one contract if not two.... Iguodala won;t be in Orlando.
Chase in : Mo Williams for Gerald Wallace. Then Cavs use TPE to sign Iggy. Jamison, Wallace, and Iggy would be a nice combo.
Steve Kyler: Yeah.. not gonna happen... its more likely the Cavs sell off Williams and Jamison than try and build around them.
cj in oregon: j.smith and m.williams to phil for a.igoudala, a.nociones, c.brackins, and a 2nd round pick. then e.brand to ind for s.jones, d.jones, and t.ford.
Stephen Brotherston: cj, The likelihood of the Sixers parting with Iggy has been dropping fast as the team wins games. 76ers own 7th and going for 6th.
They aren't breaking it up now after what they have been through to get here. Maybe before the season started this deal could have had legs.
The Wonderer in wondering...: OK - with half the season behind us re-do this years draft - top 10 - not paying attention to teams/needs - simply proof was in the pudding.
Joel Brigham: I'm skipping Blake since he was technically drafted in '09. As for the rest, here goes:
1. John Wall
2. DeMarcus Cousins
3. Landry Fields
4. Paul George
5. Greg Monroe
6. Gary Neal
7. Wes Johnson
8. Ed Davis
9. Derrick Favors
10. Evan (editors note, no I didn't miss the copy and paste - brigham couldn't be bothered to use his last name after the numerous insults already)
Sean (Rockets love) in Reseda, California: Hey Lang I was just wondering if you think that the Rockets will make a push to deal before the deadline and I'm not just talking about Carl Landry maybe someone bigger if not Melo?
Lang Greene: Sean! From what I hear, the issue isn't that the Rockets front office don't want to deal ... they do ... but it takes two to tangle and it seems no other teams are interested in grinding on the dance floor with them.
They've tried to put packages together for Carmelo and Danny Granger ... Denver and Indy didn't bite. Houston would also be interested in Iguodala ... Philly says he's not on the market. The Rockets situation is like standing in the store with money in the pocket but nothing you want sitting on the shelves. Limbo.
Edwin in LA: Who is the best one-on-one wing defender against Lebron (or does the best against him)? Also, who would you say are some of the best wing defenders in the game right now?
Lang Greene: Edwin - Great question. LeBron is in that rarified air when he's capable of dropping 30-10-10 on anyone guarding him at anytime. Shane Battier is a strong defender. Ron Artest used to be great but is slipping a little. I always say the best defense against LeBron is making him work on offense. Other than that ... only thing guys can do is slow him down
Ben in Los Angeles, CA: Do you see the clippers doing any moves before the trade deadline?
Larry Coon: If a good deal presents itself. They'd love to get their hands on Melo, if he was willing to extend there. Other players they'd like include Iguodala, Granger and Batum. If a good deal presents itself, then they'll pursue it. If not, they're already pretty much out of the playoff race this year, with or without a trade, so they'll finish out the season on a high note, and continue to build & develop their young guys.
One player who's definitely available now is Kaman. DeAndre Jordan's development has made him expendable.
willandywalker in Memphis: What are your thoughts on AI9 being given more point type responsibilities? I've always thought he could be a very good point who could create mismatches on both ends and could be a defensive terror. Your thoughts?
Larry Coon: I wouldn't want to cut into Jrue Holliday's development. I agree that AI has the handles to be able to run at PG, but I'm not tsure they really gain a lot from that.
ESPN.com Chats
DES (Brooklyn) I watched the Denver Nuggets Live in Philadelphia last night and I got to the arena early just to see Carmelo Anthony and he looked disinterested from Warm-ups and all through out the game. Everyone in the arena can sense that he doesn?t care right now. Do you think Denver Nuggets management is throwing the season away by keep Melo on the roster because it seems like he doesn?t want be with that franchise Win, Loose or Draw and it looks like a detriment to the team as we speak?
Dave I certainly don't think the Nuggets are throwing the season. If they wanted to be in rebuilding mode they would have traded Melo already for 50 cents on the dollar and started prepping for the lottery. By keeping him in his disinterested state (which I'm not so sure is a fair way to describe him right now), the Nuggets are winning more games than they would without him if they just had a bunch of future draft picks coming their way.
VW (NYC) in limited minutes how did Anthony Randolph look?
Chris Sheridan The minutes were quite limited, but I did notice this: He is such a good ballhandler, and when he grabs a defensive rebound he is very adept at immediately turning upcourt and starting the break either with the dribble or the pass. I spoke to him before the game last night, and he is having a tough time coming to grips with being benched. Told me he misses playing basketball.
john (pittsburgh,pa) are speights and spencer hawes the most inconsistent pair ever
David Thorpe Not remotely.
Matt (Northeast) Jrue Holiday or Stephen Curry to build toward a championship?
David Thorpe Either. Depends on who your wings are.
Eggsy (The end of the bar) He started out with such promise, but what do you think the ceiling is for Thad Young now?
David Thorpe He's an underrated guy. I like him a lot.
Russell (Philly) You've always been a supporter of Jrue Holiday. What do you think of his recent play this season? He seems to have leveled out and is not making great strides in his progress.
David Thorpe It's very hard for players to "get better" week to week and month to month. They may be improving but their stats will bounce around. I still like what I see in him.
MB (PA) Thorpe, you'd really choose the 17 guys you listed in front of Evan Turner on your rookie rankings ahead of him for your team? Am I misunderstanding what your rankings mean?
David Thorpe The rankings are simply a scale measuring cumulative stats and recent play.
jay (philly) 2 question would it be better for the sixers to make the playoff for young turner holiday to get playoffs experience or to lose close games and get a qulity big in draft ex jujan johnson or morris brothers
David Thorpe I always prefer making the playoffs.
ellis (houston) Jeff, have you been paying attention to possible acquisitions at the deadline? Iguodala seems like an intriguing option and his shut down defense and athleticism could push our team to contending status.
Jeff Caplan Ellis, I will say this one more time, and really, I haven't had to say this this week: Forget about Iguodala.
Jrue Holiday (Philadelphia, PA) First career triple double at 20...Give me a few years and I'll be first on that list...as long as management can find me a Center who can dunk.
John Hollinger I'd be a little more enthusiastic if it wasn't the pathetic 11-10-10 variety of triple-double. I agree that The Jruth is one of the league's most promising young guards, but let's not cue up the Jason Kidd comparisons just yet.
wyatt (aurora, il) what about Andre Iguodala? can the Bulls swing a trade for him and keep Deng?
Nick Friedell No, Deng would almost certainly have to be in a deal for Iguodala.
Power Rankings
ESPN.Com - Marc Stein
17th (previously 20th) Can't tell you how often I've heard it from rival coaches/scouts: Collins has the Sixers, for all of their issues in close games (1-7 in games decided by three or less) and suspect shooting, playing as hard as anyone does.
NBA.com - John Schuhmann
17th (previously 17th) If the Sixers were just .500 in close games (instead of 3-11), they would be 25-22 and tied for sixth in the East with the Knicks, who they happen to play twice this week. It also would have been nice if they didn't commit 13 turnovers and blow a 21-point lead over the last 15 minutes against Memphis on Friday.
CBSSports.com - Dave del Grande
16th (previously 16th) All-Star update: OK, he's no All-Star, but has Elton Brand's resurgence improved his stock to the point where he's no longer a throw-away in a 76ers deal? I say yes. Alas, as an All-Star, he's out
Hoopsworld.com - Eric Pincus
18th (19th previously)With the Knicks slumping, the Sixers are starting to think six seed.
Sportsillustrated.com - Britt Robson
16th (17th previously) Behind forward Thaddeus Young and guard Lou Williams, the Sixers lead the NBA in bench scoring. The pair epitomizes coach Doug Collins' practice of blurring traditional positional roles. Williams and starter Jrue Holiday can switch off point guard and shooting guard assignments on the court together. At forward, Andre Iguodala can take the tougher cover, provided the power forward isn't too large -- his defense on Carmelo Anthony when Denver went small with 'Melo at the 4 is one recent example. This flexibility enables Collins to insert Young and Williams at times when their matchups are optimal. (According to Basketball Value, Young really thrives alongside Iguodala.) On the other hand, Collins' extensive use of strategic bench maneuvers -- Evan Turner and now Marreese Speights are also playing significant minutes -- might factor into Philadelphia's proclivity for blowing big, late-game leads. During the 16-minute period when the Sixers coughed up a 21-point second-half advantage against Memphis on Friday, Collins deployed 10 different lineups compared to the Grizzlies' five. Familiarity breeds composure on the court, and those are things the deep, youthful Sixers don't possess.
NBCSports.com - Kurt Helin
16th There is just no way this team trades Andre Iguodala as they fight for a playoff berth. The rumors will circulate but the Sixers are currently the seven seed and just one game up on the nine seed Bucks. They are not going to throw in the towel unless the offer is just too good to ignore.
Articles/Miscellany
Iguodala Dunk against Nuggets is NBA Dunk of the Night
Nice 'profile' of Doug Collins Son in Law (he coaches too)
ESPN Fantasy 3 up, 3 down (Iguodala up)
24 Best Players Not to Make an All-Star Game
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Story: Inability to stop Knicks costs the Sixers:
http://ow.ly/3Rzs0
Collins: Holiday 'had two bad games':
http://ow.ly/3RzSJ
I'm sort of surprised that Thorn took this job, only to sit around and do nothing for his first full season. Do you think he is going to stand pat for 2 more years util Brand's contract expires?
How quickly you forget the acquisition of Craig Brackins and Darius Songaila.
"I'm sort of surprised that Thorn took this job, only to sit around and do nothing for his first full season"
that's generally been his MO as a GM. He'll make a big move, but he doesn't rush it, and spends some time assessing what he has.
Do you think by now he has an idea of what he has?
Brigham's re-draft order is pretty nuts.
I take that it doens't work under the cap and it's a deal the Nuggets have already turned down except that they would get Corey Brewer now instead of cap space. It's another case of Walsh feeding Broussard a fantasy.
From a hoopsworld chat this morning
"Edwin in LA: Who is the best one-on-one wing defender against Lebron (or does the best against him)? Also, who would you say are some of the best wing defenders in the game right now?
Lang Greene: Edwin - Great question. LeBron is in that rarified air when he's capable of dropping 30-10-10 on anyone guarding him at anytime. Shane Battier is a strong defender. Ron Artest used to be great but is slipping a little. I always say the best defense against LeBron is making him work on offense. Other than that ... only thing guys can do is slow him down"
- no respect for iggy!
I think most media outside of Philly do not even know the Sixers exist, nor do they ever watch Iguodala.
Its more ignorance than disrespect. SportsCenter never talks about Iguodala shutting guys down, so in the national mentality it never happens. Sort of like a tree falling and nobody watching.
"pathetic" triple-double?
Walsh is walking a tightrope. Best case he signs Melo as a FA this summer, idealy under a more restrictive CBA. That way Melo gets less money- leaving more for NY to build around him. But he has to be careful, because if Melo believes this is then Knicks plan, then he will be angry that they don't want to pay him his max.
So if Walsh low-balls Denver it's win-win. Because they either get him for a song, or they sign him this summer and save some money/capspace.
On the flip side, Denver should come out and play the reverse angle. They should say "NY doesn't really want Melo this year. NY only wants to wait until this summer, so that NY won't have to pay him the max extension." If they play this right, then Melo gets angry (about "disrespect" and "his" money) and starts forcing NY's hand to make a deal.
Ugh, meetings on top of meetings.
Anyway, the latest is Collins saying Brand should be considered for comeback player of the year, do you guys agree?
Sure. He was lousy the last 2 years, ad has been the most consistent player the Sixers have.
Is Griffin eligible? Is it a comeback if you never played?
Probably
But just like the all star game 'wins matter' (it seems) - so it's basically Richard jeffersons award to lose I think
But Denver doesn't get anything. Thad could leave them. Then all they'd get would be Lou.
Replied to the wrong post.
Thought I'd throw out an odd little trade:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4kap6ng
Sounds like the Melo rental price is really cheap. So maybe the Sixers can make some noise this year using some players/contracts that are not part of the long term plan...
Kenyon Martin and Melo (33M of expirings)
for
Lou, Young
Noce, Kapono, Songalia, Hawes
The Sixers take on some extra salary (meaning lux tax) but make that up with increased gate and publicity. not sure about KMart's health... but how would this line-up do for this year?
Jrue/Iguodala/Melo/Brand/KMart
Not sure who you would bring in for bench players.
Then, this summer you get a big trade exception the next season after you do a sign/trade to the knicks of Melo.
Making this deal means you are giving p on Lou and thad... but that might happen anyways.
Does that "veteran" line-up get them out of the 1st round?
Where do you go from there? (assuming Melo walks and you have some cap space.)
Maybe, maybe not, but probably also requires a first round pick (or two) to get done as you're giving them a bench player (lou) and a restricted free agent they have to decide upon immediately withonly a couple months to evaluate.
As a RFA they definitely could keep Thad. They would have to already know whether they want him, but some GM;'s are probably high on Thad.
Maybe it would take a 1st. It really depends on what other rental offers they are getting. Thad(22) and and Lou(24) and at least 2 building clocks. Although not as cheap as similarly aged players on their rookie deals.
Clocks, blocks... whatever.
Video: Collins on young players, schedule heading into break, Brand:
http://ow.ly/3RPJn
Great video Tom. Listening to Collins is music to my ears every single time. Especially if you compare him to Jordan.
He gives very thorough answers and is great with the media and fans. He's called me by name since the preseason -- Jordan never bothered through an entire season.
Telling factoid:
How unglamorous is the group that Collins came back to coaching for? Philly was one of just three teams, alongside Charlotte and Cleveland, without a single player listed in the final results of All-Star fan balloting.
Snider said how he did not want to deal with another big name star after years of AI and Barkley. Now he has his wish... and the irrelevance that goes with it.
Thank god the sixers have a guy who gets the NBA as well as Snider
Video: Brand on the tough schedule, his terrific weekend:
http://ow.ly/3RRRl
This is from David Aldridge who when he was at ESPN and TNT I used to think was the most credible national voice out there
Two-plus weeks until the trade deadline, and the Carmelo Circus aside, along with those guys who everyone knows are on the block -- like the Nets' Troy Murphy and the Knicks' Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry -- here are the guys that, according to front office sources around the league, are eminently gettable before Feb. 24: Golden State center Andris Biedrins, Memphis guard O.J. Mayo, Lakers forward Ron Artest, Portland centers Marcus Camby and Joel Przybilla, Philadelphia forward Andre Iguodala, Phoenix forward Josh Childress, Washington forward Rashard Lewis, Detroit guard Rip Hamilton, Cleveland forward Antawn Jamison, Minnesota guard Jonny Flynn, Charlotte forwards Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw and Houston forward Jared Jeffries. NBA.com
My Emphasis
Oh, I figured Aldridge emphasized it himself because if that were to happen it would be an earth-shattering event that the whole world would want to know about. (Just kidding.)
I wonder if Washington will find any takers for "eminently gettable" Rashard Lewis. I'm sure someone will trade for Jamison.
Looking at all of those names, which players would demand the most in return.
I'd say Iguodala, Mayo and Jackson. And maybe Camby? I'd don't see their teams giving them up for expirings and peanuts. The other guys could be acquired for cap relief or minimal return.
If reports are to be believed Iguodala has no value due to his unwieldy contract.
I think the most valuable pieces are guys who contribute but still expire this year (like a Przybilla)
Not a big deal, but of not, Kaman isn't on that list
I was mostly thinking of what would be needed to get the player... not what is being offered.
That wide gap between asking price and selling price is why Iguodala is "not on the market."
I see what you were saying then I think Iguodala wold probably cost a lot for a team to get though I figure the Lakers wouldn't just GIVE artest away
Jonny FLynn fell off the map quickly didn't he?
Collins Monday, when asked about the perception that Brand was washed up: I never thought he was washed up. I thought he was a victim of a couple of injuries. Achilles. You put a, but an Achilles injury on a 265-pound man and that takes a lot to come back from. You get yourself back and you blow out your shoulder. And you’re a free agent making a lot of money, with a lot of demands in a city that demands of their athletes to ‘give me my money’s worth.’ Which is what it’s supposed to be about.
"Elton, nobody hurt more than he did. That’s why when I took the job, I talked about him about understanding this city. I know this city loves players like Elton Brand. I was never a star, but they respected me because they knew – moment to moment – I was going to lay it out there. That’s what EB does. If you go start to finish this year, from Moment 1, he’s been out most consistent guy. Not even close. It’s good to see that he’s being recognized for what he does. He could easily be the comeback player of the year this year, which would be fantastic because of what he’s done and how hard he’s worked."
He can talk up Brand all he wants (and Brand is worthy of praise this year) but it won't generate a tick more attention from the general fans. Unless Thorn does something to energize the fanbase, I don't see the Sixers being as"relevant" with fans for year to come.
I'm not sure there is a good move to be made, but that does not change the facts.
Do you think Wall would have energized the fanbase? I don't really think so.
I think winning in the first round of the playoffs and THEN still contending the next year is the only thing to be done.
Griffin has energized fans. Same with Curry for GSW.
But these last few years have not been chock full of superstar draft talent.
I agree on the lack of good moves to be made but i strongly disagree about the "relevancy" in the fans perception. I think if the Sixers start winning enough games to be in the top 10 of the league a lot of fans "appear out of nowhere".
When you take a look at it the last winning season the Sixers had was 6 years ago and even then they were merely 2 games over .500. If you look back the last really good season was Larry Browns last season (48-34) and the last 50 win season (56-26) was 10 years ago when we lost in the finals.
So the point is the reason the Sixers are overlooked is because they have been losing for a very long time. That can change very very easily. All it takes is a few more wins... I'd say if the Sixers continue improving the way they have this year, next year there is a solid chance they will be relevant among the fans again.
I don't agree. If this team consistently wins about 55% all year long then they won't sell many more tickets. They would need to exceed 60% (50 wins) and probably by a good margin.
I do agree that winning trumps star power. But they are not usually mutually exclusive. What team headed for 50+ wins lacks big name star(s)? Or is your contention that the current players would be perceived as stars if the team was winning?
This current 20-14 run does not feel substantively different than similar runs 2,3 and 4 seasons ago.
Part of the problem is 'contention'ness
The eagles, phillies and flyers are consistently contending, not just to make the playoffs but to win in the playoffs, I think the sixers would have to eastblish that kind of contentionness to get people to pay attention.
The NFL Season ended last night - i'm sure by the middle of work Philly sports radio will be focused on one thing
Baseball
I'd say everything above 48 wins is a good team in a fans perception. 48 wins however usually put you ina good position to actually win a round in the playoffs so those aren't exactly mutually exclusive in my mind. I also believe that if the team is winning the perception regarding a lot of the players would change. There are two ways to become a "star":
1) Huge stats on a bad team + highlights (big market team is a plus but is not a must).
2) Being one of the best players on a winning and truly competitive team on any given night both in the regular season and in the playoffs. And by winning team i mean 50+ win team.
This franchise has the stench of mediocrity. Winning 48 games with the current roster is not going to win over many new fans. But if they built up to 48 wins without Brand/Iguodala then probably some fans would gain interest, hoping the team was back on the rise.
This seems muddled to me. No one cares about who's on the team right now. Fans will come back when either (a) they start winning, and winning in the playoffs or (b) they get a superstar, in which case they'll come back, but won't stay unless the team starts winning in the playoffs.
If this team wins say 40 this season, no one will care. If they win 48 next year, with no major moves, and get out of the first round of the playoffs, the perception won't be that they're overachieving on the backs of Iguodala and Brand, it'll be that they're building something with the young guys on the roster, and I do believe attendance will bounce back.
Now whether that's possible or not, I don't know, but I feel like you're mixing your own feelings for the ceiling of this roster as constructed with the disinterest from the majority of fans. The disinterest will lessen with winning, while the "championship" aspirations which you, rightly or wrongly, see as limited by the personnel on the roster, don't really mean much to the average fan. They'll fall for false hope, if it is false, as long as it comes in the form of success on the national stage, in front of the national media.
They're less likely to fall for false hope (or stay around) in a city where the other 3 teams are consistently contending for serious playoff runs.
Eh. Serious playoff runs? Have you watched the Eagles in the post season the past two years?
look how young the core of that team is though.
I'm an Eagles fan, I'm not going to argue against them, but I'm not sure fans have really been jazzed about them over the past two seasons because they had such high hopes for the post season. I didn't really even think they'd make the post season heading into this past year.
yeah that's the way I looked at it. I was stunned that they made a playoff run while in the process of rebuilding. Think they caught a break with Dallas falling on their faces, and NY suffering what seems to be a routine late season collapse.
But still, with a patchwork O line, a group of 22 year old weapons, and a QB that hadn't played a full game in 3 years...Not bad.
I've gathered the Juan Castillo signing has ruffled the feathers of the fan base, but I can't see how much worse he can be than McDermott.
Fans are jazzed
they're just tired of Reid (I was listening to 97.5 a couple weeks after the game) - they have faith the roster is good - (defensive upgrades necessary) but don't have faith that Reid is the guy to get it done.
Plus the NFL is the one billion ton beast - look at Oakland - Raiders fans show up all the time - A's can contend for a divsion title and not get sell outs
Actually, I was trying to project my take on the fans- separate from my feelings.
I watch every game and am fully engaged. If they win a bunch next year I will give credit to Collins, Jrue and Iguodala (and hopefully Turner.) I'll be excited because they will be soon getting out of cap hell (or more accurately cap purgatory.)
But the stories will read Brand resurgence, Iguodala finaloy a star... and I don't think many fans will get behind it.
But I could be totally off. Philly is a good sports town when they think their teams are trying.
I'm trying to think back to when they signed Brand. They were coming off a surprising showing in the first round vs. Detroit, and landed the biggest name on the free agent market. Didn't they sell a bunch of season tickets that summer? I can't remember the reports.
But they did not sell out much in the regular season or playoffs (before or after Brand.)
OK, I'm sick of meetings and looking to kill a couple minutes, so let's check it out:
TOR (home opener) - 15,750
NYK - 11,717
SAC - 10,100
UTA - 12,839
OKC - 13,385
LAC - 13,474
GSW - 13,556
ORL - 14,985
CHI - 13,561
LAL - 19,119
NJN - 13,096
CLE - 15,550
WAS - 15,865
MIL - 11,538
Those are all the home games prior to Brand's shoulder injury. So yeah, you're probably right. There may have been mitigating circumstances, by the time the Phils were done in the series, the Sixers were off to a slow start, right?
Here are the playoff games:
Game 3 - 16,492
Game 4 - 16,464
Game 6 - 16,691
and the playoff games from the previous season, against Detroit:
Game 3 - 18,805
Game 4 - 18,347
Game 6 - 14,130
Wow, look at that dropoff in game 6 against Detroit.
I don't think Sixers fans are unique. There are some regional and city features, but generally fans are fans.
Fan bases have a goos deal of inertia. If a team is a consistent winner then fans will show for a few years even if the team is on a downturn (The Pistons drew nearly 19K last year.) Likewise Sixer fans have seen years of lousy teams, and won't be overly quick to embrace a winner.
Hell look at the cavs this year - and then realize that season ticket renewal is around this time of year and almost no one is renewing their cavs tickets like they did last year.
QUicken Loans might rival sixer town for emptiness last year.
I think philadlephia is more of a fight because of the flyers - there are very few strong hockey / basketball towns that support 'both' teams when they're down - let alone one of them...i suppose the best way to look at that would be chicago right now right - both those teams are up(don't the bruins still suck?)
Its also a bit troubling how the Sixers lacked consistent attendance back in the glory days of the late 70's and 80's. They did not consistently sell out playoff games when Dr J was here.
That is ancient history, but it makes you wonder if there is all that much of a nascent fanbase in the first place? It also makes you wonder if I used the word nascent correctly? I'm try
I'm trying to fight the decline of the English Language.
I always thought that the 'basketball' fandom in Philly stemmed from the Big 5 (not you you stupid yuppies in Villanova) and how the high school kids would go to the big 5 schools and it was something uniquely Philadelphia (and cheap), and it's popularity indicated to people that Philadelphia was a basketball city while I tend to think of it as a college basketball city, and college basketball fans are not always pro basketball fans, for a variety of reasons.
I think Big 5 was great when they played at small, overcrowded gyms. It doesn't work as well in big arenas.
No, I entirely disagree. Like I said earlier today, we're one of three teams - us, Charlotte, and Cleveland - that doesn't have a single player in All-Star fan balloting. Lots of really bad teams, worse teams than us, have players that got some votes - some of them not even good players. Cousins finished in the final voting. Biedrins finished in the final voting. Kaman and Bargnani are there. Marc Gasol got the 4th most votes among Western centers. Rudy Gay got over a quarter million votes, Monta Ellis got 400,000. Granger, McGee, Ben Wallace, Brook Lopez, Brandon Jennings, and John Wall were in the final balloting. To me, this suggests that we have a fanbase unexcited about our players to an extent way out of proportion to our lack of success. That Brook Lopez finishes in the final All-Star balloting and Iguodala and Brand don't, that Sixers fans come on here suggesting we trade Iguodala for Lopez, suggests that fans are deeply unenthused about our best players to the point where their sense of reality with respect to our players is really distorted. Keep in mind, also, that Holiday was on the ballot too, and finished behind Arenas, Jennings, Wall, Jamal Crawford, and Darren Collison. Now I'm not saying that anyone could realistically make a case for Holiday as All-Star, but Jennings, Collison, Arenas, and arguably Wall are worse players, and their local fans voted for them - even though their teams are (were in Arenas's case) lousy. I mean, the Pacers; they've been awful forever and at one point had three players on the All-Star leaderboard, finishing with two - and it's not like there aren't other sports in Indiana. Or look at the Internet - there's so little out there about the Sixers, while teams like the Wizards are the subject of obsessive blog coverage, with multiple outlets parsing what Andray Blatche says on local sports radio. Living in D.C., I can tell you that a surprising number of people really care about McGee and Blatche and Wall's futures to a degree that I don't think Philadelphians have cared about any Sixer since maybe Iverson got traded and people thought Iguodala could become a superstar. There's intense interest here in the rebuilding process itself; it's not like everyone's fandom is on hold until they win 48 games. So I don't know that fans start caring again until they bring in someone fans like. If we continue to be a team where guys trade off on who's going to lead us in scoring for the night with 18 points, I don't know that that will ever capture fans' imagination even if it works.
Were there any sixers players on ballots? The ballots are decided pre-season - by 'experts' like the folk at ESPN who refuse to list Tim Duncan in his proper position cause it hurts Tim's feelings.
I honestly don't know if any sixers were eligible for votes because I care about things the public votes for as much as I care about menstrual cycles - the public hardly ever gets anything right when asked to vote unless presented with an obvious mismatch
Sixers don't want history to repeat:
http://ow.ly/3S5Fl
Spike Lee tells Kevin Garnet to Calm the F*** down
All this 'he's gritty' crap has to stop - Kevin Garnett is a punk - and a cheap player - and all the celtics follow his lead and get away with it - he hit a player in the junk last week - and i haven't heard yet about fine or suspension has anyone?
And when people start to wonder why basketball is losing the 'main stream fan' remember that KG was lauded for years even though he was a well known punk ass bitch
he's a prick but can't deny that he was a great player for a number of years.
He's always been a prick - he's always been a cheap shot artist - call him like you call a normal NBA player he probably fouls out about 35% of the time
If Kevin Garnett was in the NFL - how many games would he be suspended in a season?
the illegal screens have always bothered me.
Yeah, he would get his fair share of 15 yard penalties, but he'd have been one hell of a tight end.
He's a cheap shot artist - that would get him fined - gauranteed on defense - he'd have numerous helmet to helmet penalties and probably a few cheap ass horsecollar pulls
Not to mention the NFL is all about image - and his treatment of 'ball boys' and team mates (punching em in the face if they show him up) wouldn't play well.
He's been a punk for a long while - he's no better than ocho cinqo
The sixers are not in the top (or bottom) 5 of ratings this year check it
Didn't see a link to a complete chart...wonder if comcast would like to share
Char and Mil in bottom 5, and almost no viewers overall.
I guess their long suffering fanbases did not buy in on their BS playoff runs last season. And to me that suggest Philly fans would be no less drawn in by transient success by the current core.
Well, it hasn't been sustained, right? If either of those teams had picked up where they left off, maybe the numbers are a little better. Milwaukee is pretty much unwatchable and they don't have their "star" pg.
If the sixers had john wall I believe attendance would be up some hat kid definitely has the potential to be Allstar - Superstar In the future.