 Talking Trades If you've been following the comments around here, I'm sure you've seen plenty of trade speculation. I admit it, I love doing it, I love reading it. It's fun to wear the GM hat once in a while. Unfortunately, I think for the most part it causes more frustration than anything else. Sometimes, when you take a step back and look at things objectively, it's pretty clear that the scenarios we all come up with are pretty far fetched.Unfortunately, being die-hard fans of a particular team makes it hard to be objective. With this in mind, I decided to reach out to a couple of experts on the other side of the fence. The goal, to bounce a couple of trade ideas off them and see how they'd feel about them. Obviously, this isn't the same as talking to a team's GM, but taking the pulse of the fans is a good start (and probably as far as we'd ever be able to go.) After the jump we'll see what a couple of Bulls bloggers thought about my trade proposals.
Here are the two deals I asked about:
My logic: The Bulls need consistency at the center position. They've been using Drew Gooden, who isn't a center, in the position. Off the bench they have Joakim Noah and Aaron Gray. Neither gets the job done. Sammy could give them stability in the middle. The Sixers obviously need a shooter, Hinrich would also provide insurance should the Sixers lose Andre Miller after the season, or if they can move him in a separate deal this season. Dalembert's contract is also shorter than Hinrich's. The second deal is complicated. This FAQ and ESPN's trade machine both say Ben Gordon would have to OK any trade because he'd be giving up his Bird Rights this summer by changing teams. I can't find the language, so I'm going to have to go with that. I'm not sure this is a total deal-killer, however. If the Sixers shed Sammy's contract and Willie's contract and let Miller walk while taking on Nocioni's deal, the Sixers would be left with a little under $50M against the cap heading into next season. They could start a deal for Gordon at about $10M/year, with annual raises. The Bird Rights only come into play if the Bulls are willing to go over the cap to sign him, and I'm not sure the Bulls would be willing to go much higher than $10M in the first year. But I digress. The Bulls would get Dalembert in this second deal plus they'd swap a really bad contract (Nocioni) for a shorter, less awful contract (Green). If, at the end of the season, the Sixers were not able to sign Gordon, they could use that $10M in cap space for another piece. (We'll do a post on this summer's free agent class a little later). So those were my thoughts in coming up with the offers, now let's see what a couple of great Bulls bloggers thought of them. Matt from Blog-A-Bull: I'll say this, if the Sixers were able to acquire Ben Gordon they'd be pretty damned good. There's one thing to need a guy who can hit threes, and getting Gordon, one of the best shooters in the history of the league. I asked Matt a follow-up question as well: "On the court, do you think Dalembert is a guy they'd be interested in?" I think any interest in Dalembert would be for salary reasons. They do need any type of competence in the frontcourt, but it seems like Dalembert isn't polished enough (especially on offense) to be someone they'd actually target. Makes sense. I hadn't thought about the luxury tax threshold. The Bulls must be anxious to get out from under the Hughes and Nocioni contracts, so you have to think they'll try to tack one of those players onto any deal for Gordon or Nocioni. Rickhouse from Tremendous Upside Potential I would reject both of these deals if I were the Bulls, though the first one is probably more desirable. Trading Hinrich is fine by me, but the Bulls should be able to do better than Dalembert, who is similar to what Joakim Noah should develop into. The Bulls need a big that can score, and Sammy affects the game more through blocks and rebounds. There is also no rush to deal Hinrich - his value right now is probably as low as it has ever been. Last season was the worst of his career and he got injured so early this season that I can't imagine opposing GMs would be too keen taking back his contract. So those were my first two stabs at potential trading partners, and the reaction from two Bulls fans/bloggers. Their concerns about the luxury tax are warranted. If they were to swap Hinrich for Sammy, they'd probably have to go over to keep Gordon next summer, but probably not by that much. If not paying the Luxury Tax is their main goal, they will have to move Hinrich, Gordon or maybe even Hughes, if they can find a taker. After next season, they'll have plenty of cap space, so maybe some spare change thrown in the deal could help grease the wheels. Ultimately, fans over-value their own players and under-value the other team's. I'm not exception, and Matt and Rickhouse may not be either, but it's good to get the opposing side's perspective. I hadn't even thought of the luxury tax implications. Thanks for taking part, guys. 
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I think while the bulls might be luxury tax fearing if they think Sam can offer them any kind of solid center presence - they might consider that one - of course - sam is unpolished, still, which is just pathetic, but the salary difference per year isn't that much different.so I don't see salary's being a hinderance if such a deal were offered...I do see sams piss poor game being a problem for the bulls and I think the sixers running into when of the axioms that I'm not sure I agree with in the NBA don't trade big for small.
I would do the first trade, but I don't like the second one so much - the worries about Ben Gordon and a one year rental are valid...and I'm not a big nocioni fan.
If it turned into a one-year rental for Gordon, the Sixers would probably have a decent amount of cap space next summer and they would've swapped Dalembert and Green for Nocioni, which is a huge bonus cap-wise.
Well - if you're building it for next summer - then maybe just hold on to it until 2010?
And at that point do you worry that brand is too old?
I would trade AI for Gordon. Same amount of money I believe if you extend Gordon for as much as AI just got. That would be value for value. We would get a pure 2 guard, which would allow Thad to play the 3. Start Andre M, Gordon, Thad, Speights and Elton when he gets healthy. Have Sammy, Reggie and Lou off the bench. This is a trade that me and my dad wished for all this summer. We have had season tickets since 94. I enjoy AI and he is exciting but he will never be the scorer that we want in which Gordon would be. The money would match up. No one wants Sammy or Willie and never will unless it was the last year of their contracts, Sammy has no basketball IQ and Green is never consistant. But AI, even though we know his struggles, is much more liked around the league and would spark an interest in the Bulls team. They have to many guards anyway.
Iguodala is a BYC player, so it doesn't work 1 for 1. Another team(or 2) would likely have to be involved and it would get really complicated. Too complicated to happen most likely. On top of that, the Sixers couldn't resign Gordon since they wouldn't have his rights even, so it just doesn't work. Of course, the Sixers may be below the cap enough to resign Gordon as a pure free agent if they dealt Iguodala AND let Miller walk for nothing. Then they are left with two similar players in Lou and Gordon... undersized 2s(one who can shoot) and then have the MLE and draft to try to get some sort of PG and who is that going to get them? Ronnie Price or something? And they are paying Gordon more than Iguodala's contract likley... uggggggggh.
As I said in my other post though, I haven't read up on the CBA in over 3-4 months so I could easily be off on some of it.
If Gordon waives his bird rights he would be an unrestricted free agent without a team with his rights, which would mean the team that he could only be signed by pure cap space with additional restrictions on his raises the year before the "greatest free agency ever." I think that doesn't bode well for him. He will want to leave the sign and trade possibility open I would think or returning to Chicago straight up.
I haven't read up on the CBA in awhile though, so I could easily be off.
I honestly dont see what all the fuss is about Hinrich. Hes an injured PG that we would ask to play the 2 whose range is not that spectacular, career 37% 3 point shooter? Its not like he has size or anything to play the 2, we are better off with Lou than Hinrich there. Im not saying that Lou belongs there but Id rather see him there than Hinrich. Gordon does impress me there though, he actually has numbers that prove he is a nice scorer.
In Hinrich, I think you're looking ahead. There's a very real possibility that Miller will be gone after this season. We have no one to play the point. If you bring him in, he's your two guard (who is a much better 3pt shooter than anyone on the team now, for the rest of this season. Then he's your point of the future if/when Miller walks. Kills two birds with one stone.
37% career 3 point shooter - who on the sixers shoots the 3 better than 37% for his career?
Right now the sixers are starting will fracking geen at the 2 guard - Hinrich has skills willie wishes he had - and fans would love him cause he's 'gritty' and 'hard nosed' and all that nonsense Philadlephia sports fans over value over things like pure talent and ability.
Hinrich is an upgrade over green - if it also somehow gets sam dalembert off the sixers it's killing 10 birds with a feather
Im not saying there is someone better than him at shooting 3's that is currently on the sixers, but I can see Thad picking up his game and eventually shooting that percentage if not better. I also think that if given the right opportunity, Rush would do that too. As a future PG, Id have no problem with it, but Id only do it if it gets Green off of the team as well. Its hard to say but we kind of need Sammy right now, Brand is down, Jason Smith is done for the year, Theo is old, Evans has no offense,Speights is a rookie. We are not exactly deep in that category.
If pure talent and ability got it done, we would have won multiple titles when Iverson was here.
you think rasual butler is a good trade candidate. he is shooting a good 3P %, makes the same amount as willie, and is from philadelphia.
I'd take just about anyone in a straight up deal for Willie, I just don't think there's a GM in the league that would make a deal for him unless they had to take him as part of a larger deal.