This time last year - actually, even as recently as a couple of months ago - I was dreading July 1, 2011. The day the lockout would most likely begin. The owners, the players and David Stern have been on a collision course with a work stoppage for a couple of years now and my biggest fear was a lost season. Now, I'm literally counting the seconds until we can get this lockout started. I'm thinking of having a party.
The irony really kills me. This whole collective bargaining situation boils down to two things. A little bit of greed, on everyone's part, and a heaping helping of incompetence. The owners want to make more money, they want a bigger piece of the pie, and they desperately want to create easier ways to dig themselves out of the holes they foolishly dug for themselves. This work stoppage and the resulting CBA will be all about making it harder for owners to screw up, and easier for them to erase their mistakes. It's about saving these millionaires and billionaires from themselves.
I'm looking at the lockout as possibly the last hope for the Sixers to be saved from their own lame duck management team. The frequency and absurdity of the Andre Iguodala trade rumors seemingly increase by the second. His value on the open market - at least the reported open market - plummets each time a Jonny Flynn rumor lands with a thud. It's a race against time, with Ed Stefanski and Rod Thorn driving the Sixers bus into oblivion, our only hope is for the lockout to come before they can seriously screw anything up.
Once the lockout becomes official, once this CBA expires and the negotiations take on some urgency, the crisis will be averted. In fact, the lockout will act as a salve for this franchise. Odds are, Stefanski, Thorn or both will be headed for early retirement. Suddenly, the Sixers will have new ownership, new management, and even if you subscribe to the theory that Iguodala burned his bridge with his exit interview no-show, guess what? That bridge won't matter. Not one bit. There will be a brand new bridge in its place, one leading from the team's best player to their new management.
Here's the funny thing. When the new ownership groups moves in, they may very well decide that trading Andre Iguodala is the right move. They may decide they want to truly rebuild, that Iguodala could return a valuable asset or two, young assets who could be a part of this team's core for years to come. If they come in and make that assessment, fine. Then they'll have all the time in the world to make a trade that actually helps the team. The hope is that they'll take the time to come up with a rational, long-term plan for how they're going to improve this team.
The big problem with what's going on right now is that Thorn and Stefanski seem to be operating under an idiotic, self-imposed deadline to move Iguodala. Perhaps they think they need to move him now because of the impending lockout, perhaps they realize their days at the helm are numbered and they want to make one last move on the way out the door. Maybe they really were upset about the fateful exit interview that wasn't and they're bound and determined to give Iguodala his walking papers before they get theirs, no matter what the cost (and really, they probably won't be the ones who have to deal with the fallout). Whatever the reason, it's asinine to make a move like this under what is really a meaningless deadline. Unless there are some legit discussions going on in the background, none of the offers the Sixers are getting represent equal value, not even close. There's blood in the water and everyone knows it. Jonny Flynn for Andre Iguodala? Come on. Jonny Flynn isn't good enough to be playing in the D-League.
10 days. Less, actually. It's more like 238 hours at this point. Just get us through that without royally screwing up the draft and then things have a chance of working out well. Not much of a chance, but at least there's a sliver of hope left.
Not only does Jonny Flynn blow, but he plays the one position that the team knows it is set at for the future. Bill Simmon has the KAHNNNNN joke going. I could see this turning into THORRNNNN.
I can't believe this move would happen without the okay of the new ownership group already being given. A team that doesn't draw, a player disliked by a lot of the fan base who makes big money and may fill a need in a trade.
When this all shakes out, I think the real story will emerge; I am real curious how our coach puts a positive spin on this. I have read twice in the past month on hoopsworld that Iggy's salary has to be moved for the sale to go through and that bothers me more each time I read it.
Iggy's salary has to be moved for the sale to go through and that bothers me more each time I read it.
That would explain the weird sense of urgency that the Sixers seem to have. It would also mean that the lockout is not going to prevent a stupid trade. Maybe the new guys are as awful as Comcast.
I have a feeling that the Wolves are talking to the Sixers, and Flynn is in the conversation, but it's part of a potential three way deal to make the Gasol trade happen with the Lakers.
Suppose the deal took shape something like this:
Wolves get: Pau Gasol
Lakers get: A. Iguodala, Lou Williams, M. Speights
Sixers get: K. Love, Peckovic, Beasley, J. Flynn
This positions Minnesota to get Pau Gasol, while positioning themselves to take Williams with their No. 2 pick.
Would the Sixers do the deal? Would the Lakers? If the Lakers are going away from the triangle and really changing the shape of their club - this might appeal to them. Rumors are they want to find a way to sign Tyson Chandler -- there is only so much space available for big guys.
I would love this trade, but it really makes no sense. The Timberwolves are overpaying big time. They probably wouldn't do Love for Gasol straight up (if they are smart, which is a huge if), let alone give up Beasley as well. Besides the Lakers would rather have Love than Iguodala...
The Sixers are the only happy team with this trade...
Maybe just maybe they can try this variation of the trade, but i have serious doubts about this one as well:
- Timberwolves get Gasol, Speights, #16
- Sixers get Love,Pekovic, Webster, Walton
- Lakers get Iguodala, Lou, Flynn, #20 (the Lakers apparently wanted to get into to first round)
But in reality i think the Lakers and Timberwolves would rather do a two-way deal, they don't need Philly.
Kevin Love is not walking through that door. Unfortunately it's looking like Kaman is...
What does Bill Simmons have to do with this? Is he the guy who made up the Jonny Flynn story?
I'm a Syracuse fan, and I don't think Flynn was even a very good college player - good at driving and finishing, but not much of a playmaker. Still can't believe he was drafted in the top 10.
Happy 23rd birthday to Thad Young. Easy to remember, since we share the same birthday. I've always been a fan, even if he is best suited as a super sub at this stage of his career. I guess at 23 he's entering his prime and ready to try and cash in.
Good thing he can't be re-signed under the current CBA. Anotehr side-efect of an Iguodala trade is it moves Thad into his self described "natural position" as starting SF. Sort of reminds me of the Miller/Lou situation- and it's further justification for his asking for starters money. So a higher salary for Thad will likely be partly due to the rush to Kaman-ize Iguodala.
In that case happy B-day TK :)
Can anybody answer me the question? If there will be a lockout what will happen with next year draft? Will Sixers stay at 16? Or there will be the lottery for all teams with somehow calculated chances? It bothers me cause seems like its gonna be a really talented draft class.
A lockout means that the new CBA will not be reached until the 1st July. It doesn't mean that the lockout will extend to next year. In theory it might get resolved as soon as 10 of July for example. That won't cause any work stoppage. It's unlikely that we will lose an entire season IMO, which means there will be a draft lottery just like any other season based on the regular season results (no matter the length). That's of course if the draft rules under the new CBA remain the same...
That being said i have a feeling everything will be resolved by August or September at worst, which will cause no major problems outside of no summer league. The owners will surely recognize that the NBA is entering in another "golden age" and will try to squeeze as much money out of it as possible. I expect them to easy up their stance enough so that the players will take what they can, recognizing it could be far worse if they drag it out too long. But maybe i am being an optimist who knows...
I assume you mean what happens next draft if we go an entire 12+ months without a new CBA.
Who knows? That is sort of uncharted waters.
The Sixers cannot trade Iggy for Kaman. They just can't do it. What is the rush? We are not winning anything next year. At some point, a deal is going to come along that is attractive. This is how you get beat in the NBA, trigger happy management feeling like they need to make a deal. What is the best case scenario, Kaman walks after next year and we free up 12m? For who? All big name free agents are grossly overpaid. Hang on to Iggy. Draft a project with upside and ride it out. It's the only thing we can do.
Anything else and we get taken, by the Clippers no less.
BRUTAL!!!!
This whole Iggy for Kaman thing makes me want to puke. I hate loving the Sixers.
Totally with you there. You know when the Clippers of all teams are trying to take advantage of the situation, then it may just be time for the Sixers to seriously reconsider how they're presenting themselves.
Great news, it won't be a salary dump!
Jordan Hamilton appears headed to Philly with the 16th pick, and sources said Monday the Timberwolves have offered point guard Jonny Flynn in a package deal for swingman Andre Iguodala. Philadelphia officials, however, have let it be known that they are not interested in a salary-dump deal for Iguodala and want an impact veteran in return. CBSSports.com
I don't know whats better, news that we won't trade him for salary, or that were taking Jordan Hamilton. He's going to be a star.
Yeah, they want "an impact Vet." Nothing says impact vet more than Kaman.
Maybe it's an impact young vet like Javallr McGee? I love Iguodala but I think I'd do that deal.
I was being sarcastic with the Kaman comment. As for McGee, I don't think Iguodala gets yoou him based on the other offers we've seen floated.
Blood is in the water. The perception is that Philly needs to move Iguodala so that Comcast can get a better asking price for the team. Its about money, not basketball.
Where is the idea that they have to trade him to make the sale coming from. This thread is the first time I've read that.
I think it's a confluence of a bunch of rumors thrown together to make a new uber rumor.
I'm with you -the lock out can't come soon enough
Yeah this is the first time I'm hearing anything like that, and honestly I haven't been able to figure out why the front office is so committed to trading. Why not play it close to the vest and if a team blows you away with an offer then pull the trigger. Would you trade him for McGee? Let's say we draft Hamilton, a lineup of Jrue Turner Hamilton Brand and McGee is pretty interesting.
Here is a link: It is just speculation, but IMO other GM's are thinking this way. Why else the Iguodala trade and team sale news breaking simultaneously?
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20190&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
"Andre Iguodala: The 76ers seem like the table is set to move Andre Iguodala. Word is there are a couple of offers the team is seriously considering with the Clippers offer of Chris Kaman for Iguodala being the top one under consideration.
The fact that the 76ers are up for sale and there is a buyer negotiating now complicates things because much like Detroit last season, when teams are negotiating sales long term debt like player salaries weighs into the valuation.
If the 76ers can shed Andre's contract without taking anything back, current ownership can get a better price.
So while the basketball move may be to flip Andre for a center like Kaman, the business move may be to flip Andre to the Cavaliers for their Traded Player Exception and erase the debt.
It is unclear how much the sale is impacting the thought process, but a source that's been dealing with Philadelphia said things are different and predicting what they will do is even harder because of the sale.
So while it is easy to say take Chris Kaman for Iguodala and be done with it, Kaman is owed $12.7 million next season, his final season, which is $12.7 million more than a new owner would have to pay if the deal was with say Cleveland.
The long term ramification on this matter more than normal, which is why almost anything with Orlando is less desirable because of the debts they owe the players like Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson they were said to be offering.
Also keep in mind that new ownership wouldn't be buying a team to immediate tear up contracts either, so the 76ers need to get their house in order in advance of a sale, so expect them to make some moves in the coming days."
Ah, so baseless speculation based on guesses and dart throwing - awesome
So you think that there is not a perception that the Sixers feel they must trade Iguodala to avoid paying his escalating contract (either for financial or cap reasons)?
Again, saying that there is a perception out there. Could be wrong, who knows. But I am not just making this up :)
If the sale is as close to possible as the reports were last week, then why hasn't an Iguodala move been made if it makes the deal better for Comcast?
Oh, maybe because the new owners don't want comcast to make a crap deal trading away the best player they have.
See how that works, just change your perception, read the tea leaves differently, come up with a conclusion 180 degrees opposite.
It's all based on rumor innuendo speculation and cowardly 'unnamed' sources
PS - As you can see - everyone on the sixers obviously hates Andre and what's him gone.
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/barrigon/2011/06/20/jrue-holiday-we-need-to-find-a-big-man/
Thanks for the link.
Maybe Jrue has talked Dwight into being a Sixer. Now Jrue has tipped of the front office to clear the ship of contracts so they can sign Dwight.
I mean, that's got to be their real motivation, right?
At least someone with the organization FINALLY said however politely 'we need an actual big man folks'
I think this a slap in the face to Hawes...
And brackins and speights
Who all should be slapped in the face, repeatedly
I love it.
The fact that the 76ers are up for sale and there is a buyer negotiating now complicates things because much like Detroit last season, when teams are negotiating sales long term debt like player salaries weighs into the valuation.
See, that's kind of a funny paragraph right there because the Pistons didn't make a move to get rid of long term contracts, and the reason given at the time was that they didn't make the move because they were up for sale.
Whose perception? Care to substantiate that? Any source?
Link above.
Not saying they are correct, just that the speculation is out there on the web. That article was posted this morning.
Thanks for link.
Distills to a sole perspective, semi-informed guesswork depending on the accuracy of the take of the source of a source, Steve Kyler.
Yep. And there is no way to know if other GM's feel that is the case or not.
Either way, the Sixers are definitely the motivated party when it comes to an Iguodala deal. Regardless of whether it is basketball or financial motivation.
The 76ers could surely use a lionhearted inside player like the late Wally Schirra. Wally, of course, being the only one of the original Mercury 7 astronauts who flew in all 3 pioneering U.S. space programs - Mercury, Gemini and Apollo ... nobody but local test pilot Andre Iguodala has experienced more ups and downs. Houston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Orlando: the 76ers have a problem; come in, please.
WTF?
No, NASA. But the WTF appreciates your mention.
I remember when we were thinking of signing Elton Brand that Josh Smith would have been better to go after (though he was restricted) since he was younger, fit the team better, and was cheaper. Well it looks like he can be had again, and that he wants out. i think swapping him for minilebron could be the best we could get (considering the other offers out there) if atlanta was down, which they should be since they start marvin williams.
Salary Caps, Luxury Taxes, contract restrictions all these things are 'anti-capitalist' - 'anti-free market', but they all exist to do one thing usually, prevent owners from their own stupidity.
They hire the same GM's, they continue to make the same kinds of mistakes and yet they want to protect themselves even more.
How can people who have made 100s of millions, possibly billions of dollars be so dumb when it comes to things like evaluating talent.
NBA talent evaluation is still about 20-30 years behind where it should be
...so we *still* haven't seen any named team sources outside the media echo chamber reporting that they are even considering trading AI9, right?
And you'll never see named team sources, people don't want to get fired
Right.
If you name a source, don't expect to have any more sources.
I realize that writers have to protect their sources, but sometimes I'd like a little more, like 'anonymous marketing executive, or anonymous player evaluator' or 'anonymoust ticket taker'
Something that lends at lease some sort of concreteness to the anonymity.
There's a west wing episode that talks about leaks and it's the theory that people just love being in the know, and even more they like telling other people they're in the know - it makes them important.
If I tell someone I got something from the "anonymous director of player development", it kinda loses its anonymity.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who love the attention. but it's a slippery slope, and it's best to err on the side of caution.
Well i'm not asking for that specificity but 'someone on on the marketing side, business side versus the 'opeations' side.'. I'm just looing for some sort of general
Like westbrook dude on realgm. I figured out what his source did for the team (he confirmed it via PM) based on the ifnormation he got :)
Chad Ford's Mock #6 is out. Has us taking Hamilton as well now.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-110621
ESPN's entire NBA section seems to be slipping through to insider. Shame
They don't make enough money off of everything else....can't give away news for free these days.
Insider doesn't bother me that much, it's their proprietary stuff, I'm fine w/ paying a premium for that. Honestly, I think it's more about them tying the magazine subscription to Insider to keep boost their circulation numbers. That was a pretty smart move on their part, there's no way I'd subscribe to the magazine if it wasn't tethered to insider.
Yeah, I'm plenty happy spending my 3$ a year for the mag and insider. Its a great magazine for the waiting room (although I have to edit it sometimes for younger viewers.)
I hate every time you tell us that because it's not available any more :)
Chad Ford shouldn't be insider information :)
That type of deal pops up frequently at places like slickdeals.net
I post if I see it.
http://thesouthern.upickem.net/engine/Splash.aspx?contestid=22152
This one was better (3 yrs for $12) but expired. As I said, these pop up all the time:
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=689061&t=3011773
Yeah, most of the ones i find are expired, but i'm hardly ever actively looking
http://www.magazinesusa.com/html/ESPN71.shtml
$5.99 with coupon code MPSBIG
Most of the time I forget the mag is even part of the service.
I'm okay with paying a few $$ a month when things are actually happening. Comes in handy this time of year and right before the break. Most of the time though I feel like I'm paying $50 a year for nothing.
I don't even notice what's Insider until my cookie lapses and I have to log in again to see content.
Video: Thorn syas he's initiated some Iguodala trade talks, spoken to possible new Sixers owners and probably won't move up from No. 16 in draft:
http://bit.ly/k6tOdQ
Blog: Thorn on a number of issues, including trade talks, Thursday's draft, the team's prospective new owners and Quin Snyder's possible departure:
http://bit.ly/kyEkI3
Interesting chatter on Twitter about Valanciunas.
He has a guarantee (possibly Milwaukee at #10)
and if MIL's targeted guy isn't there at #10, they're going to trade back w/ HOU (for #14 and #23)
Pretty interesting, I wonder who HOU would be moving up to get? Could be Biyombo. I hope it's Vucevic so we don't take him.
I think - unfortunately - that no matter what the circumstances - there's enough 'evidence' available that even if he's available at 16, the sixers aren't drafting Biyombo
If Fords projection actually comes to fruition and we come out of this draft with Hamilton and Benson I'll be thrilled. No way Benson should last until 50. I'd much rather go with Hamilton in the first and an athletic big in the second than take Vucevic in the first and a low upside wing shooter in the second. Same with Motejinas.
I think Doug feels that the best type of C to pair with Brand is one that can hit 10-15 ft jumpshots and space the floor to let Brand work in the paint. Bismack and isn't the type of player that would fit that mold. I wouldnt be suprised to see the Sixers pass on him if he fell to pick 16. And there's no way in hell that Sixers are going to spend extra money and move up in the draft.
That's a fine theory, except Brand doesn't work in the paint very often. He's the guy taking the 10-15' jumpers.
Also, drafting for a guy who fits next to Brand is pretty ridiculous at this point. They should be drafting for the future, for what happens after Brand is gone. Taking another soft, jumpshooting center isn't going to do anything for this team.
Um - did sixersbeat get cancelled?
No, I just corrected a link on the post and accidentally unpublished. it's back up now
I have really weird timing