Last season, Thaddeus Young was an under-sized four, or maybe a small forward playing out of position. This season, I'm not so sure. Early in the season I noticed a fairly drastic difference in Thad's physical appearance, check it out for yourself, the picture on the left is from last season, the one on the right is from this year:
From the looks of things, Thad spent some serious time in the weight room along with the extra shooting practice and just about every other type of on-court work he could do over the Summer. What does this mean? Well, I'm starting to think that this may mean his long-term position may just be power forward.
The added size seems to have cost him some mobility, especially on the defensive side of the ball. He still has very quick feet for a guy his size, but he just isn't as quick as the two guards he's been asked to cover. Last season, he was. Here's a
good example.
He's still got the quickness to both play and defend the three, and the added range on his jumper and improved handle both mean he should eventually excel at the position, but I'm starting to think that as a power forward he could be dominant. Last season, when put up a 19.4 PER at PF he relied on his speed, quickness and athleticism advantage to win match-ups and hide his glaring weaknesses for the position, size and strength. This year, I'm not sure those glaring weaknesses are really there anymore.
Keep in mind, the kid is only 20 years old. He won't be 21 until late June. I think right now he has the bulk to bang with most of the PFs in the league. Who knows how much more he'll fill out his frame over the next couple of seasons. He's got the low post moves, he's developing the power, he'll always have a quickness advantage, what he lacks in height he makes up for with an enormous wing span. Now picture having a four on the court who other teams need to defend on the perimeter. All the way out to the three point line.
What this means in the grand scheme of things is anyone's guess. The Sixers just spent a ton of dough on Elton Brand. They've got Marreese Speights blossoming in front of their eyes. They've got Dalembert's contract on the books unless they can find someone willing to take him. Long-term, I'm not sure what the answer is. There are plenty of minutes to go around, so we could see Brand and Thad splitting time at PF, and Speights/Brand splitting time at center. Thad could still see time at the three with Iguodala getting some minutes at the two.
If I'm on the right track here, and Thad's body is going to continue to grow into that of a power forward, finding a way to move Dalembert for a decided upgrade over Willie Green at the two should be this team's top priority.
What do you guys think? Am I way off base and Thad's future is clearly at the 3, or does his increased size mean he's on the way to becoming a dominant 4?
If Thad was a shooting guard,wow,just imagine.
Thad got mad skills
could the sixers end up trading iggy in the future?Hmm
Thad has the footwork and smarts to be a 4, just not the girth. Not yet. I could see him getting boxed out alot. Although he could be deadly from three. I CAN see that happening. At his best, he probably is a swingman 3-4ish in the short future. Just like last year. Distant future? I'm not sure.
True or false, Thad's more of a 4 than Rashard Lewis.
True, if he becomes as deadly as three to offset size mismatches down low.
Hi Brian,
If you want to see a comparison of Thad's future position and what he'd be like look at fusion of LeBron James body and Carmelo Anthony skills. Thad has a similiar body type and athletic ability (not as extreme but who is) as LeBron with the offensive package of Carmelo. So, I'm figuring he'd be a pretty powerful 3 (SF) that can drive (part the lane) like LeBron does. That is what I want to see more of with Thad driving the lane and drawing some more fouls. But whereas LeBron has the great vision and handle (which Thad doesn't), Thad has a better shot and better low post moves a la Carmelo. Thad can defend unlike Carmelo and he is a much better athlete. Last year, he was a quite good defender (good enough to be 3rd in the league in adjusted +/- if you look at Basketball Value). This year, he's dropped off. Since I can't see most of the games I thought it was because he was leaving his man to double (hence giving up the treys) but I guess he's lost some quickness too from your description.
He has really beefed up...
I think the problem is that he just doesn't have the size... he was measured at sub 6-6 in the predraft combine. His wingspan isn't ludicrous really. His weight was 210.
Typically a guy with his standing reach can only really play the 4 if he is wide bodied and there is nothing in the world that could make Thad wide bodied really.
The best you could really wish for at the 4 would be Josh Smith without the shot blocking but more range or Antawn Jamison.
The answer, I think, is that he, ultimately, tops out at a Jamison at the 4 and I could never imagine a Jamison being the 4 on a championship team.
The context of the photos obviously has to be noted as well. In the first he is spread out of a slam. In the 2nd, he is flexing his muscles to absorb the contact he is about to initiate with Corey Magette or whoever that is.
From age 19-20 I think the typical human being develops as well. In addition, I think Thad is the type that matures late judging by the fact that he has a 12 year old's face. I do think he is bigger obviously, but will he ever be at least David West's size?
His weight at the pre-draft was 210, if I had to guess I'd say he's 230 right now. Say he gets up to 240-250, that's enough bulk, I'd say.
As for wingspan and standing reach, he's an inch shy of Al Horford in both categories, although the height w/out shoes is less than I thought it would be.
I didn't even want the Sixers to draft a PF because I thought Thad was fine where he was... so you aren't going to get too much of an argument from me here. I wanted Mario Chalmers as I clearly stated and I still think that pick would have been perfect for this team. Speights was one of my favorite bigs though.
Anyway, I don't know if he can be David West's size and learn to block a shot from time to time. That is essentially what he would need. I think he is closer to 220 than 230. He is still maturing though.
On a related note to moving Sir Thaddeus to the 3/4, what are your thoughts on then trading Dalembert for Mike Miller? Miller makes $9,128,575 in 2008-09, and $9,880,957 in 2009-10, while Dalembert makes $11,138,564 in 2008-09, $12,025,694 in 09-10, and $12,912,823 in 10-11. Some minor pieces would need to be fitted to make the cap work possibly. Dalembert replaces Collins, giving Jefferson more minutes at the 4, and Brewer could pick up minutes at the 2 in MIN, while the Sixers could flex out Miller as a 2/3, AI2 as a 2/3, Young as 3/4 and Brand as the 4/5. Speights and When-will-he-be-sweet Lou could be used more extensively off the bench. I like the idea of making Thad into a poor man's Garnett from the sense of playing him as a 3/4. Miller - Miller - IA2 - Sir Thaddeus - Brand seems like a better fit. PER's from the past 4 yrs seem comparable betw MMiller (13, 16, 16, 17) & Dalembert (11, 15, 16, 14) too. Thoughts?
I love Miller's game, I wanted the Sixers to trade for him this Summer, but I just don't think the T-Wolves would do that deal.
Miller only has 2 years left on his deal, $9M this year and $9.75M next year (I'm seeing different numbers for both guys than what you have). Dalembert has an extra year on his. Dalembert also has a trade kicker in his contract, which pumps his salary up another 7.5% if he's dealt.
I'm not saying they definitely wouldn't do it, but the Sixers would have to throw in a serious sweetener to make it work. Probably Speights or Thad. There's no way I'd do it for Thad, not in a million years. Speights I may consider, but then you have a serious shortage of big bodies. If you could do it with Jason Smith and maybe a future #1 pick, I'd do it.
The rotations if the trade even happened would be sweet, in my opinion.
As an initial matter, I've enjoyed your site and wish you luck with the upcoming site changes.
I've also always liked MMiller. And, thanks for the update on D-Bert's trade penalty kicker. I suppose it would add a little under 1 mill. extra a year, which would place the salary diff in a direct swap around 3 mill. I hadn't devalued D-Bert to the level where it'd require an extra piece like Speights/Thad. I was thinking more on the lines of WGreen just to make the numbers work. Of course, if a significant sweetener was required, would you swap in Sweet Lou instead of Speights/Thad? Say Collins (6)/MMiller (9) / Carney (~1.5) for Lou (4.5) & D-Bert (11+1 kicker)?
As for your orig. post topic, Thad has bulked up to play the 4, but it would also depend on the matchups. Just looking at his numbers, he doesn't seem to have the assists that you'd expect at the 3. As for getting boxed out, he's had good numbers on the OReb. Plus, I don't see Team Reb as the problem here. As an aside, I would say that Thad is more of a 4 than Rashard Lewis. More importantly, the Shaq days are over. Furthermore, more teams are going small. Why not create the match up problem w/ Thad at the 4? Besides, Speights/Brand/Dalembert/Ratliff/(Collins)/JSmith(IR) allow for the 2 position / 3pt shooting to be upgraded.
Lastly, my orig. thought on a roster change required AI2 being sent off, but now I'm intrigued w/ a Dalembert move. Patience has never been my virtue.
My previous K info was pilfered off draftexpress.com.
That's the main thing with this team right now, a PF with SF size (Thad), an SF masquerading as an SG (Iggy), 2 undersized SGs who have no PG skills.
I feel that the bench production has been poor because our bench has changed so much. Lou has been poor and neither Rush nor Marshall have had the opportunity to log consistent minutes in order to attain a measure of consistency to their play.
I'd rather, at this point, that we make it a priority to get all the new players settled in rather than play 8-man rotations in order to scrap out wins. We are planning to take a huge step forward so I don't mind taking a step back first in order to achieve it.
The thing about title contending teams is that even though they use 8 or 9-man rotations in the playoffs, most of the other guys in the bench are guys they can trust if they need to throw them into a game or two.
Marshall, Ratliff and Rush were brought in to fill those roles so we need to get them in rhythm with the rest of the team so that come playoff time, we will be better equipped to make it past the first round.
There are two schools of thought here. One is that for the team to get used to playing with EB, you need the starters on the floor with him as much as possible. It's vital that those guys get things figured out. I was in this camp for a long time, but considering the numbers our starting lineup is putting up, I think it's time to switch to something like what you're talking about.
The most crucial thing is to do it with some thought as to what role they need to play on the team as a whole. Wholesale substitutions are stupid. We need to see what Rush can do with the starters. We need to see what Marshall can do with at least a couple of regulars on the floor. What we absolutely don't need to see is 5 bench guys on the floor at the same time with Lou and Willie in the backcourt. No offense gets run and there are going to be no opportunities for those guys. We need to see how they mesh with the starters because you're really going to need them in certain situations. Like if a team starts playing a sagging zone against you in the first round of the playoffs. We need to know if Rush and/or Marshall can come in and bust it for a five minute run. Right now, we have no idea.
M16 is a bad dude
what is going on with Reggie evans,not getting time
The team's big problems have been on offense, he's not exactly a cure for that. Just a guess on my part. I assume Reggie's limited minutes is a decision made by stefanski.