I wouldn't call it pretty basketball, but it was a form of the sport. The Sixers took down the Nets in their first summer league game of the season last night, I have some quick thoughts after the jump.
First of all, two players on the floor looked like legitimate NBA players tonight, Jrue Holiday for the Sixers and Terrence Williams for the Nets. Pretty much everything positive involved either one of those guys and they were a joy to watch. The rest of the guys out there? Well, some had their moments, but mostly it was a bunch of sloppy basketball and quick whistles.
I realize it's only one game, so I'm not going to kill Evan Turner. I will say this, though. After watching him play against the Nets I do believe the development of legit three-point range is going to be crucial for him in the NBA. Not because the Sixers need him to stretch the floor, but because he's going to need to be able to force his man to play him close on the perimeter, giving him an advantage when he wants to drive the ball.
Overall, I thought Turner was active, though not terribly effective on the defensive end. He did have a nice strip of Damion James, the third or fourth time James posted him up. Terrence Williams was too quick for Turner, but he was too quick for Jrue as well, so there's not a whole lot to be taken from that matchup. Turner really shined on the glass (8 boards) and he had one nifty drive + finish in transition where he went behind his back twice before laying it in with his left hand in traffic.
On the other side of the ball, Derrick Favors looked like pretty much what I expected. A super athletic big who's going to grab boards, play D and take some time to develop into whatever he's going to eventually become. Neither the #2 nor #3 pick in the draft impressed me too much in this one.
Speights had a woeful, woeful game. 1/11 from the floor with 6 fouls in 30 minutes. He did grab 7 boards, which isn't horrible. He still looks a full step slower to me than he did prior to the knee injury last season, but that could also be rust.
Meeks did what Meeks does. Catch and shoot. The comedic highlight of the game was his blown dunk in the first half, when the alligator arms were on full display. He hit a pair of threes in five attempts, which is really what we need from him. He also looks like he bulked up a bit in the offseason.
At the end of the night, Terrence Williams looked like the best athlete on the floor (which he was) and Jrue Holiday looked like the best basketball player on the floor (which he is). I have no doubt Turner will get acclimated, and I'm glad he didn't just start chucking shots to get his numbers, chalk it up as a rough start.
The Sixers play the Celtics tonight at 5pm (allegedly). I'll be in transit, so I won't have a chance to watch the game until late. Use this post for any thoughts on game one, as well as your game thread for game two. Keep an eye on Avery Bradley's defense in this one.
Ah I beat you by a couple of minutes. I'll repost my stuff here.
I was more focused on baseball, but I had a few thoughts on what I saw. I was in and out throughout the first half and saw almost all of the second half.
1. A lot of basic offense, which I liked. Basic motion sets with pin downs for Meeks and Turner. Pick and roll with Jrue and whoever. Vanilla stuff, which should suit this team well. They have about as much talent and experience (especially with their starters) as any team there, so no need to go crazy with intricate offense. Let these guys try and make plays.
2. Jrue was awesome. One thing that the Sixers should do going forward is try put an emphasis on guys that can knock down wide-open shots consistently. Sure what we really need are defensive rebounders, but hopefully they also can knock down open shots, because Jrue will find them. Maybe even Spencer Hawes will be able to make defenses pay when Jrue finds him :) Jrue could have had more assists tonight if he even had a willing shooter from the post like Brand. He reminds me of a quarterback the way he disects a defense to find open men. A true dual/threat guy like an earlier version of McNabb. Only problem was he took a few plays off on defense, maybe he was tired? Well, he had no help defense and Williams threw down a hellacious dunk on one of the plays.
3. Speights was really discouraging. His defense was terrible and he took jump shot after jump shot. He's kind of like an Iverson type as a big guy, taking a lot of tough fadeaway type shots. I wasn't disappointed that he was missing them, but some weren't great shots and were bad decisions. His rebounding and D were not good either. As of now, this guy is slated to play heavy minutes for this team, which is worrisome.
4. Turner was just getting settled, and I didn't think he was bad at all. He looked a little shy on the offensive end in his first game, but at least he didn't force things. He had a difficult matchup with Damion James and got overpowered a few times, but he learned and stripped the ball from him. I loved the play with a minute left when he got the ball at the top of the key trying to put the game out of reach, that's why we got him. I felt comfortable and he found Plaisted(?) for a three point play. Good to see him in a 76ers uniform.
5. I loved the way they were pushing the ball offensively off defensive boards. The one thing Speights did well was outlet the ball and Jrue/Turner/Meeks got easy buckets. Reminded me of a few years ago. The difference was that it was done by the pass, not just Andre Miller dribbling up the floor.
6. Last thing- I was fascinated by Collins watching the team on the other side of the court. He was clapping for the players when they made good basketball plays (Mike Green's stop and go, Turner's behind the back moves, Turners P and R at the end, anything Jrue did) and not on bad plays (anything Speights did).
All and all, it's great to be away from Eddie Jordan. I like basketball again.
Good stuff. You can see how Turner's going to stuff the stat sheet, and I think he's going to give enough effort on the defensive end to be at least average, if not better. My main concern from this game was that all those moves that created space for him in college just didn't in this game. It's early, I'm sure he's rusty and this is a big jump for anyone, so it's nothing to worry about. I do believe he's going to have to be a legitimate threat from three in the long term, though. It can't just be a "well, he shoots well enough to keep them honest" kind of deal, imo.
The Nets threw Damion James at him, who is a high energy/great athlete kind of guy. Those guys typically do very well in these games, even though Jrue especially put some magic into this game. I was impressed by James though. Let's see how Turner gets settled, because he was a pretty shy kid from all reports as a frosh at Ohio State. He is more playing the 3 all game with Jodie at the 2. Sure he's versatile, but we all hope he can fit into a powerful 2-guard.
Can't overstate how great Jrue was. Great performances at summer leagues are guys like Bellineli, Martell Webster, and Jerryd Bayless, guys who can only shoot. There's no good passing, teamwork, etc. Jrue defied that by putting on a show from just a pure basketball standpoint.
He did struggle with his moves too, but I thought maybe that had to do with just a bit of shyness. I thought he got off his step-back well one time in the first half, just didn't fall. I'm sure McKie and Collins tell him to be more aggressive in the next game.
I think he is a smart enough player with enough athletic ability to figure it all out. A 3 point shot can be developed. That's going to be up to Collins to establish that as a high priority starting now.
He's a very proud individual so when he struggles initially he's got the work ethic imbedded in him to improve his game.
That handle and finish was really nice when he pushed the ball up. He's got great body control finishing at the rim.
Good stuff. You can see how Turner's going to stuff the stat sheet, and I think he's going to give enough effort on the defensive end to be at least average, if not better. My main concern from this game was that all those moves that created space for him in college just didn't in this game.
What I saw from Turner was very close to what the scouting reports said: average athleticism, great handle. He may not be able to blow by people, but his handle and his intelligence will get him good shots (or, as in this game, get him to the line regularly). Kind of like a taller Andre Miller. On defense, Turner was reaching too much, but it seems that's correctable. He had excellent instincts as far as rebounding.
One thing to remember from watching Turner was that Jrue last year struggled at first in the summer league with what to do and where to be on offense. With repetition and familiarity with teammates, I expect Turner to get a lot better.
Not sure if it's because i haven't seen jrue in a while, but he looks like he put some muscle one which i like. Turner also looks bigger than i thought
"I think he is a smart enough player with enough athletic ability to figure it all out."
Yeah, that is the selling point for Turner. Not just that he is a good player now- but that he has demonstrated the dedication and smarts to craft his game to where he gets the most out of his talent.
Some of the corrections are simple. Much like Jrue last season, he'll need to tighten up his handle and stop underestimating his defenders athleticism. But once he gets a feel for what will be effective against NBA level athlete I think the sky is the limit.
I was glad he was matched against some top athletes- although it would have been better to see it game 3 than game 1.
Also, even in this setting you can see how Turner plays off of his strengths. He was not scoring, so he got his points at the line and filled up the stat sheet. He did not put up a dozen bad shots (like Speights.)
He had games like that at OSU where he led his teams to wins on off shooting nights.
well said
Thanks for your thoughts, hadn't a chance to watch the game live. Going to do it soon. Glad to see that about Jrue, I expected that he will be more productive than Turner, cause he have much more experience. And it seems like Turner was ok, that's good. I think he will improve every game.
And btw I heard Avery Bradley is injured, isn't he?
Hadn't heard about an injury to Bradley. Sucks if that's the case.
Bradley had his knee scoped right after the draft - out 6-8 weeks or so.
Bradley and Jrue had pretty similar stories in college and both fell in the draft for probably the wrong reasons.
Jrue's previous summer league numbers were quite pedestrian too as a rookie. So was his long range shot. Turner very quietly filled the stat sheet which is what great players do. They do things so effortlessly you barely notice til the end of the game when look up at a 12,8, and 4, 2, 1 line while shooting 100% from the stripe(another sign of greatness-to-be). Though, his handle seemed really sloppy he still did a great job of protecting the ball.
I wasn't at all impressed with Favors. If seats were switched and we drafted him, I would be worried right now.
Great thoughts here this morning. I was flipping back and forth between the Phillies and Sixers so I may have missed some things, but here's my two cents:
1) Jrue was sensational. I know it's a pre-season game, but did anyone notice the first shot of the game that he hit? Picture perfect 3-pointer. If he becomes a 40% 3-pt shooter, it adds a whole other dimension to this team.
2) Speights looks awful. I know its one game, and its summer league, but if there's a way to use him with a Lou Williams to maybe make a move this summer for some bulk on the interior, I wouldn't shed a tear. Besides the missed dunk, I think Meeks looked decent (at least offensively).
3) As far as Turner was concerned, I thought it was kind of surprising how much he handled bringing the ball up when Jrue was on the floor. I thought he looked tentative and nervous, but I do like the fact he didn't force anything. He is playing a little out of position at the 3, where I think he would be swallowed up in the NBA by the stronger, more elite athletes. At the 2 though, I see him having his way with guys like Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon, Courtney Lee, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, even Ray Allen - Eastern Conference two guards he's likely to see night in and night out. Turner reminds of the guy you hear a lot of hype about then you watch him play and think he's overrated and then look at the stat sheet and see he had 20 pts, 8 boards, and 6 assists and his team won by 12. One of the few good points the commentators made too was that for guys like him, they probably haven't played an organized game in like 3 months, making sure they don't get injured before the draft.
Thankfully, Favors didn't do anything that made me feel like we made a mistake. He's active and big and strong - doesn't seem too bright and disappeared for a looong stretch during the game.
He says "work hard" atleast once every interview. Doesn't even have to be related to the question.
"How you like the experience so far?"
"I'm just gonna come out and work hard."
"Have you been able to do anything for you mother now that you are a professional basketball player?"
"Since she worked hard, I'ma buy her a nice house so she don't have to work hard anymore."
"Breakfast this morning?"
"A bowl of work hard."
lol
Speights needs an extra helping of work hard.
Man, Marreese looked pedestrian out there. Like he was a rookie free agent trying to make a squad.
He still is reluctant to put a body on anyone as far as boxing out. He just gazes at the shot as it's going up with the hope that if it does come his way he will grab it.
He just will not go down low either to attempt to take advantage in the post (is this b/c of what we were running? our two bigs mostly came out to set high ball screens). He is still in love with taking really bad jumpers and looked soft/weak on the three drives to the basket where he thought, I guess, he was 'taking' his man to the hoop. Just pitiful.
What bothered me the most was he just does not understand how to set a proper screen (now, some of this can be on the ball-handler not running his man into the screen and using it properly). But most of the time he would almost be turned sideways with the wrong angle or he would sort of poke his backside out to make contact with the guy he was suppose to be screening. Terrible fundamentals, reminded me too much of Sam on this.
And since I've butchered him enough, I guess speaking on his defense will be like a broken record from last year. In short, it was sieve-like, matador-like, very little want-to and effort.
If Doug, in fact, puts up with it, he has a heck of a project on his hands that needs to break a lot of bad habits. Really disappointing to see.
Didn't see the game but watching brief highlights, looking at the stat line, and reading the posts here- it all makes me excited. I love, love, LOVE that Turner played within himself, didn't force his offense, and wasn't overmatched on the floor. He's going to pick up the NBA game quick.
Jrue will be a monster this year. And he does look like he's packed on some lbs in the strength department. Anyone see a Deron Williams body type developing here? Love it.
DC has been raving about Speights. I wanna know what he saw. He's slimmed down but doesn't look like he added any muscle. I thought he'd convert the flab into muscle not just go on Jenni Craig. I'm confused. He better have a strong showing going forward. It would have been nice if he could have made it clear that picking Favors would have been a bad idea because we already have our PF of the future.
Jrue looked really comfortable out there. It seemed like he was just having fun out there and it was easy. Turner looked a little timid out there at first, and like others said he seemed a little over matched at times when he he was playing the 3. I think we should keep away from playing him at the 3 once the season starts. For the summer league it could be a good idea (depending on the other teams 3) to get him used to the better players in the NBA. I think it was Brian who said about him not seeing tall athletic players in the Big Ten that much. I think he will adapt his game as he gets more experience. I think he did adapt well in game, and like others said did not force to much. I thought Favors looked good. For being a 18 y/o old kid playing against more experienced players he stayed within himself. I don't think the nets should expect to see a whole lot more out of him at first.
Collins gave some odd post game comments on Spieghts;" maybe he had a cookout or barbeque yesterday, I don!t know but he looked good all week in practice." He will not stand long for what he saw yesterday and I ,for one, expect a different version of Spieghts today or Simmons may take some of his minutes today.
I just don't like Evan Turner. He just doesn't have the athleticism to be the franchise player Kobe and Wade are. He can't take over games, and he will get shut down by more athletic players. He doesn't have the shooting skills that Ray Allen possesses, he doesn't have good speed, or a decent crossover move. If he was picked in the 5-10 range I wouldn't have a problem with him. But Evan just doesn't have the skills to be a player that you take at number #2.
wrong.
hahaha...welcome Nets fan!
You realize Durant struggled in his first summer league game.
Durant was very athletic and had very good shooting skills. Im not basing my evaluation of Turner on his summer league debut but instead on his college game and his body of work.
But you are posting it in a discussion about the summer league. So I figured that was you reference point.
But if you don't like him overall as the #2 pick that is fine... and has been discussed in many other posts. About 75% of fans think Turner should have been the #2 pick. While 28/30 GM's said he was #2 on their draft board. That does not mean he was the right pick, but probably as close as you can get to a consensus #2 pick.
Durant was very athletic and had very good shooting skills. Im not basing my evaluation of Turner on his summer league debut but instead on his college game and his body of work.
Huh? All anybody said about Durant his rookie summer was how frail he was and how great a shooter. Nothing about "athleticism." Turner can probably leap at least as high as Durant, has a GREAT crossover move, and had an unbelievable junior year. If you don't think he's that good, that's cool, but give some solid evidence.
Who would you have picked with the same pick.
If I was asked - which I wasn't - but Wesley Johnson. I've been wrong before but I just see big things for that guy and see his game translating much better as a 2 than ET.
Also we should not try and say he is a franchise player yet. We had the number two pick in the draft. That does not mean we got a "Franchise player" like Kobe, or Wade or Durant. It means we have a chance at one. As far as his athleticism he has enough to be anywhere from a good to a "Franchise player". If you watch him play you will notice that he plays under control. He might not show some of the "wow"/ sportcenter type plays as much as some but he will help the team win games no matter how the team is constructed. So with the second pick in this draft we did just fine. Like I said before if we had gone with Favors or Johnson I would still be as happy as I am with Turner.
OK, quick question, does Speights even have a low-post game? I was thinking about this last night. I'm looking at his hotspots and most of his shots are at the basket, but I watch all of the games, but my brain is cramping on this one, but-
He doesn't really have a back to the basket game. Even if he posts up he's squaring up to the basket. Is that wrong?
No. Speights is a little like Rasheed in that he has the tools to score inside but likes to settle for jumpers. Speights has a very good low post game, where he can effectively use a half hook with either hand. He also has great hands for ally-oops and entry passes.
Here is a clip of Speights first Summer League that shows his full repertoire all in one dominant game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP71mG7lMzg
Yeah I saw one baby hook, but he's squaring up the rest of the time to make a move. I gotta fire up synergy and take a look at it. It's not like he settles for jumpers all the time because he takes the ball (somewhat wildly) to the rim, but he doesn't seem very prone to back a man down and score on him that way.
What's synergy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy_Sports_Technology
I had a lot of fun watching lasts nights game. After a season of pain and misery it was good to see the young guys go out and hustle and work hard to get that win, the effort they showed, even in summer league was nice to see.
I think it's quite possible that Cousins will turn out to be the second best player in this draft. That's who I'd pick if I were picking on pure talent. However, you could argue we got burned picking on pure talent with Speights and Thad, so I can certainly see why we and other teams chose otherwise.
There's a difference between picking in the mid teens and picking in the top 5. At 16, Young and Speights can seem like shrewd picks if they even become bench players. If Cousins is a bust (I think he will be), then he's a failure and a waste of a top 5 pick
Oh great looks like that jackass Rick Kamla is commentating this game. Ugh, might have to watch on mute.
Sloppy play early from the Sixers. Jrue got beat by Lafayette off the dribble on that play.
and then great D to force the TO.
Evan Turner has sucked. Worst draft pick of all time. Franchise doomed.
Sarcasm? (He has been bad though)
Yeah.Mostly sarcasm. In the back of my head I am mildly concerned by how slow he looks and its only summer league.
Yeah, bad start to the 2nd game. I think he's gotta take that pull-up jumper. He seems hell-bent on getting to the rim.
He's getting pushed around a little bit too.
Definitely, especially on defense. Gaffney is another big 3 for him to deal with, but not as strong as James.
Jodie needs to work on a pull-up jumper. It looks like all threes or at the rim.
Speights just made the best pass of his entire life. I didn't know he was capable of that
I love this Cedric Simmons though. If anything, he's an asset at camp as a strong athlete.
David Thorpe on Jrue- Holiday was the best prospect here yesterday. The one issue I have with him is, can he grind?
He grinds on d, that's for sure. But overall
Turner looks like he's going to be active on the defensive end. Looks like he has a ways to go to be a quality defender but he'll put in the effort.
God I hate Kamla extolling the virtues of our bench. That's awful.
He calls the game like its game 7 of the finals. Honestly the worst commentator I've ever heard. They had better ones on my high school football broadcasts
Turner can run that P and R though. Nice quick find like Jrue will do it.
Jrue just bullied Lafayette on the lefty finish.
He really hasn't been looking for his shot too much. I want to see him be more aggressive
I think people calling Jodie as bad of a defender as Willie may be a little strong. Not even an average defender still, but he gives effort.
He's a scrappy player. But it makes me cringe when he puts the ball on the floor. Makes bad decisions and gets himself into horrible spots
That Turner jumper is flatter than a day old soda
I had to step out for a bit and am behind. Good to see ET knock down the J on the pass from Jrue.
A couple of quick thoughts- Jodie's D hasn't been great actually, this Carroll is getting good looks. Simmons and Love are outplaying Speights, as is Harangody. Turner's passing is excellent, as is Jrue's D.
To be fair to Speights, when you stepped out he made a few nice plays. He's actually been looking to pass the ball with his back to the basket. Has had a few really nice setups.
We kind of caught a glimpse of what Turner can do with the ball in HIS hands at the end of the 3rd quarter. Now he's gotta adjust to work with Jrue and eventually Iguodala.
Another great pass by Speights
Speights a passing savant for two straight plays. I'm rubbing my eyes.
Had that nice look along the baseline in the first half too
Speights very easily could have 5 or 6 dimes in this game. Just would like to note that since he was getting killed yesterday.
Agreed, he was being outplayed by the other guys for awhile there. A couple of good dimes there.
Mike Green is playing very well today. A little too much praise for Haywood Workman by this terrible broadcast. I want to see Turner back here.
Steve Smith is cool. It's not his fault that Kamla is the definition of a douchebag
Holy shit what an OOP!
Jodie didn't miss that dunk.
I'll be fair, Speights has played well in the 2nd Half here.
Turner definitely has that Jeff Green/James Harden style old man game
Again Jrue stood out but this time with his defense. Much better from Speights in the 2nd half. Turner wasn't great but his numbers weren't bad at all. It was kind of a mini Iggy game.
Is James Harden any good? I don't watch a lot of college basketball, I just don't hear much from him considering he was the 3rd overall pick last year
yea he's playing well in the summer league in the Thunder backcourt with Eric Maynor. In the playoffs last year he played pretty well off the bench a few games, espeically for a rookie. (he can also play PG in a pinch)
Saw a glimpse of him in the summer league. He's in serious shape right now. I didn't mean his game is similar to Turners in terms of what they can do, just style wise it's a very savvy approach similar to what you see out of Turner.
So the Nets are trying to sign Bosh, trade Harris and Lee for Parker, and trade either Lopez or Favors for a SG/SF. Would you trde Igoudala for Favors or Lopez?
Yes, wouldn't matter which one they give, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Nets are trying to trade Lopez ? Really ? Whats your source ? I would Trade Iggy for a 20 and 10 3rd year center any day of the week. Favors ? Not so sure...maybe. I dont think the Nets would move Lopez unless its for Bosh and even then I still dont think so.
If they do then that new russian owner is dumber than Dolph Lundgren. Trade favors for Bosh, Harris/lee for parker and sign Lebron. Yeah I'd take that all day long.
I'd definately go Iggy for Favors right now. We'd be worse in the short term but Favors could thrive in the future getting open dunks and put-backs from good passers like Jrue and Turner. He'd alos protect the rim and dominate the boards on D. Plus if we're in the lotto again next year we can draft one more forward and then have a championship core that can develope together:
Jrue Holiday
Evan Turner
Small Forward/Power Forward lottery pick in 2011
Mareese Speights/Thad Young (I think one of them could develope enough to start for a contender)
Derrick Favors
If that Zombie Russian who owns the Nets wants to win right away then someone (hopefully us) should fleece him.
That would be an interesting move by the nets,
Lopez-Bosh-Iguodala-Williams-Parker.
They won't even sniff the Conference Finals with that lineup.
You're kidding me right? If they brought in JJ Redick to come off the bench i'd pick them to win it all. Probably the best Defensive team in NBA.
Question about Salary cap, can a Team come into FA under the cap, spend their cap money, then Offer a Mid level Exception?
Probably the best Defensive team in NBA
That's a joke, right? Iguodala's a stud, Williams I'm not so sure about, the other three guys are not good defenders at all.
Thought free agent big man Cedric Simmons (10 points, seven rebounds) played well for the Sixers, especially in the first half.
if he does play well what are his chances of actually making the team?
do we have room on the roster for one more big considering Meeks will probably be on it?
Re: the LeBron/Bosh/everybody sweepstakes, any chance at all Yao gets what he wants? Via tweet: "@ChrisBosh, Hey Chris, hopefully you'll play with us (Rockets) next season. I'll be healthy and I'd really look forward to playing together..."
Speights played a little better tonight, but he still doesn't know what to do with himself.
The only thing that stood out to me tonight was the pressure defense we were able to play. It looked really good and translated to a shit-ton of points, but I doubt that type of pressure D will work as well when we are facing real point guards who will drive into our vanilla front court. I wish Hawes was on the summer league squad so we could see how his game is...
Not fair for everyone to pick Speights apart for not looking spectacular right now. He didn't have to show up for summer league play if he didn't want to, it should be a definite sign that he does want to become a better basketball player. He spent the off season getting himself into better shape, another positive. Did everyone expect him to come out of the gates in summer league looking like an all league defender? Give the coaching staff some time. He's not going to put it all together over night. I saw a lot to be happy about today, he actually looked to pass the ball to his teammates and showed more of a willingness to play down low...baby steps