 What About Willie? I'd like to switch gears a little bit today, remove the focus from the draft and the hunt for a head coach, and try to figure out if there's any way the Sixers can get out from under Willie Green, both Willie the player and Willie the contract. We'll explore after the jump. Willie has two years left on his contract, the second being a player option which he's sure to exercise, for $7,658,000 total. His cap number for the upcoming season is $3,682,000. Keep those numbers in mind. The last time we explored potential trade partners for an unwanted Sixer, the discussion was complicated. There are so many layers to the Sam Dalembert debate. On the one hand, he has a huge contract with an insane trade kicker, he's lazy, he's easily distracted, he shows almost no growth and he likes to complain to the press. On the other hand, he's an excellent rebounder, and really the only interior defender the team has. The Sixers have no one to fill his role if they get rid of him, and even if they wanted to move him, it's doubtful there would be a taker. With Willie, I think it's a much simpler equation. He could be moved tomorrow and the team wouldn't miss him one bit. There are probably a handful of guys who will be available in the second round of the draft (if the Sixers could buy a pick) who could get you 8.5 points on 8.1 shots per game at the two guard, and I think they'd be hard-pressed to rebound at a worse rate than Willie. He is the epitome of replaceable. Of course, therein lies the problem. He's so mundane, that no one in their right mind is going to want to take on that contract. Unless, of course, they're already getting less for their money in a player on their own roster. So, what we're looking for (and this is where I was looking) is players who make about the same amount as Willie, really have no role on their current team and are signed to a contract that expires no later than 2011 (it's not worth it to move Willie if you have to take back a longer contract, unless the player is really an asset, in which case, they wouldn't trade him for Willie anyway). I could only come up with three names: DeShawn Stevenson, who's arguably worse than Willie, and will be making more money. Kris Humprhies and Marcus Banks. In all three cases, I think you're better off just burying Willie on the end of the bench and dusting him off when you're up by 30 points against the Knicks. There was one interesting scenario that I picked out, though. The Indiana Pacers have basically left Jamaal Tinsley for dead. He was inactive for the entire season, and it wasn't due to injury. Jim O'Brien just apparently hates the guy. Tinsley is nothing special, but he is a veteran point guard. The Player's Association has filed a grievance against the Pacers on Tinsley's behalf, basically they want Indiana to trade him or buy him out. Tinsley is owed $7,200,000 this season, and $7,500,000 in 2010-2011. The Sixers could send both Reggie Evans and Willie Green to Indy for Tinsley. The trade works under the cap, all the contracts involved run through 2011. If Indiana thinks they can get anything, I mean absolutely anything out of Green and Evans, they may just pull the trigger. Tinsley is dead weight against the cap for two more seasons, and I'm sure Larry Bird is sick of the headache. From the Sixers' perspective, at worst, they'd be swapping two bad contracts for one and saving almost $3M combined over the next two seasons, they'd also have an attractive expiring deal for the 2011 season. At best, Tinsley could provide a little bit of depth at PG, something they desperately need. Take a look at the salaries, see if there's anyone I missed who you could swap straight up for Willie, and let me know what you think of the potential Tinsley deal in the comments. 
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I like the Tinsley option. The guy used to be a player, so he's definitely worth a shot.
Reggie and Willie are decent role players but their contracts are too big. Like you said, Tinsley is a guy not wanted at all by Indiana, hopefully if we make a deal and give him a chance he'll work hard.
However trading Reggie would effectively leave us with the softest front court in NBA history. Ron Artest could post down on Speights/Smith all day. And after Game 6 against Orlando I doubt I want to see Thad attempting to defend a 4 again.
Brand is strong but somewhat fragile and Dalembert rarely gets into it enough to bang with opposing big men. It solves one problem while creating another, but if trading Willie means playing Iggy at the 2 and Thad at the 3 then I'm all for it.
Reggie doesn't make our front court hard. On defense, he rarely even plays post defense, and his defensive rebounding leaves a lot to be desired. He'd be fine as like the 11th guy on your bench, to only be used in the most desperate of circumstances to do nothing but double on the perimeter, but trading him costs this team basically nothing in terms of on-court performance.
I like Willie. I think he's a great player and our only "true" shooting guard. However i'd like to see the sixers trade him possibly for a higher draft pick, considering our circumstances with the point and just let Iggy play 2
Brian, I don!t think bringing in Tinsley is a good idea,he seems to have major offcourt issues because he has skill yet they don!t want him near their team.Willie seems untradeable, but to use your idea would you take a chance on A.Morrison,I wouldn!t, but he isn!t bad for the locker room at least.I stumbled onto a possible Sam trade when scouring rosters for Willie.A sign and trade of Pachulia along with Claxton [5.2.ex.cont.] for Sam.It would give us a physical veteren center to play with Jason and Marreese at the 5. Atlanta, is trying to move M.Williams,another free agent and may want to try a Sam,Horford and J.Smith[at s.f.] lineup.Is 3 years at 5 mill. per too much for Pachulia, he defends and can play 20 min. a night.
I'd take a shot on Morrison, but I don't see the Lakers going for it. He only has 1 year left on his deal. (Did someone pick up his option for 2010, or is automatic because he was a top two pick?)
The entire front office of Indiana dislikes TInsley I believe...they were trying to trade him before they even hired O'brien I believe...and no one wants him...there's a reason so i'd be wary of it.
Can you trade sam for a bag of fritos - a big one?
Oh yeah - when will the reggie evans illusion dispense?
If we could find a way to get rid of Willie, the sixers team would improve w/ no other moves.
I would love to do the deal you suggest, Brian.
Why the fans love Reggie is beyond me. He has 1 good game and is loved from then on. Between him, Willie and Sam, if they were not sixers last year, we would have had a 50 game win season! :-)
I like the Tinsley trade. He's essentially a poor-man's Andre Miller. Tinsley is a fantastic ball handler and passer, and is great at pushing the ball, but he tries to do to much and turns it over some. He's also a terrible outside shooter. He's been a little injury prone, but not playing for a whole year should have him healthy. Here's what John Hollinger has to say about him:
"In the right situation he could be helpful. His shot-creating skills would be useful for a second unit, especially one that liked to run."
Yeah, I mean, worst-case, he sits on the bench and doesn't hurt the team. Which is what should be happening with Willie and Reggie anyway, but doesn't.
Add a filler so that no one saves any money and I think it is more realistic.
I can think of lots of deals that "make sense" to me depending on the state of minds of the GMs involved...
Murphy, Foster, Ford, Tinsley and Dalembert, Reggie, Green, Lou
Plenty of perverted swaps could be made from those players above that are reasonable IMO.
Murphy/Ford/Foster for Dalembert/Reggie/Willie
There is a discussion I randomly stumbled upon after following the sponsored basketball-reference Tinsley page...
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=46603
One trade they like... Ford for Reggie, Smith, and Green.
Maybe then add Dalembert for Murphy. Lots of options to explore.
Cool post:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=2433
I really doubt Jim O'Brien wants anything to do with Samuel Dalembert ever ever again...
how about a trade of sam and willie for jeff foster and troy murphy.
the contract lengths are the same. the pacers are looking for a dalembert-like shotblocker and willie can be their "instant bench offense" that they are seeking.
for us we get a troy murphy, a shooter and rebounder. he has a bad contract, but its the same length as sam's and will's, except murphy can actually be useful for us. in jeff foster, we get a tough player who actually defends (rather than a player who likes to goaltend a lot), who can shift with speights and smith. i don't like the thought of giving away the hustle and pressure defense and rebounding that reggie can provide, despite his horrible contract. also foster has a midrange game and a higher iq than sammy.
seems like a pretty interesting trade to me (though more in the sixers favor)
Here's the problem with a Dalembert for Murphy swap, in my opinion. With Dalember, the Sixers have a chance to be an elite defensive team. However slim it may be, they have a chance. You can hang your hat on that. You can win with that.
If you start Murphy as your five, you're going in a completely different direction. He may be a worse defender than Speights, and that's saying a lot. With Murphy as your 5, you're going to improve your offense, to some degree, but not enough to put you on an elite level. I think you're going to take a potential strength, make it a big weakness, and best-case, improve your offense to what, average?
I with there was a simple solution with Dalembert, but I just don't think there is. If this team is going to be a legit contender, or even really a legit playoff team, in the next couple of seasons, they need to get more out of him (both more from him, personally, and more minutes, regardless of his development), or they need to find a way to get another center in there who can rebound and protect the paint.
well actually my thinking behind this was not necessarily that we start murphy at 5. we can have him play 20 minutes a game, with about 10 minutes at the 5. and we can have a player/coach come in and teach one of the young centers (most likely speights) how to defend. we keep on saying that sam needs someone riding him and he will get better, but if he does not have the work ethic, wouldn't you be more successful focusing all your attention on a guy like speights.
plus if you think about it, we did not exactly sign donyell to be a major post defender for us. plus i feel jeff foster would be a great center for the rotation because he is a tough defender who can alter shots.
That's assuming Speights has the work ethic. I'm not saying he doesn't but do we really know at this point?
Brian:
Bring in a coach with juice who can coach defense (like Collins). Bring in a big-man coach (Patrick Ewing?) who will get up Sammy's azz like a lower GI.
(and if that doesn't work...then sit his butt until he either decides to play or his contract is tradable)
I agree with you on Murphy...I'd start Speights before I would bring him in.
I like your idea w/ Sammy. A great idea! Just ride Sammy so much that either he plays well or he gets sick of being in Philly and begs for a trade and is willing to give up cash to make it work! And, Willie gets the same treatment! Sounds like a winner to me!
Yeah, I think we might be stuck with Sam this year. I did see an article from a Salt Lake City beat writer some time ago that said the Jazz might be desperate enough defensively that they could interested in him. I would not mind getting Kyle back plus filler or maybe a three way that gets Golden State involved(Nellie loves AK47 while Sloan admires Maggette).
Moving Willie Green is a tougher deal. Tinsely is an interesting idea, but the fact that he is a injury-prone defensively challenged no shooting PG is something to think about. One thing that makes me hesitate is the possibility of simply holding to both Green & Evans until they become expirings, then you move them for a real asset.
One thing that makes me hesitate is the possibility of simply holding to both Green & Evans until they become expirings, then you move them for a real asset.
This isn't an either/or. Tinsley's deal expires the same year, so they could move his expiring deal when the time comes.
yeah, that is true, however there might be a market for Green or Evans separately where they might be of temporary usage for the short time period they are there. Tinsley will be always just an expiring deal. Nobody wants him, the player, whereas I think there might be a market for WG or Evans the player on a team that only needs to rent them for a bit.
Fair point. I'm still shocked Portland didn't make a deal for LaFrentz's expiring deal this season. He's a prime example of just that, an expiring contract and nothing more.
Supposedly they didn't make it cause the offers weren't as good as people would expect, even in this economy - expiring contracts just don't have the 'prime' value they used to it seems - and it's why people should stop over valuing them in my opinion.
Portland would have loved to move LaFrentz if they got an offer they felt worked for them - but they didn't.
Oh yeah - just an aside - why is patrick ewing so over rated as a coach - dwight howard still is a flawed player with limited offensive game?
I totally agree with your Ewing opinion. If I were him, I'd spend more time talking about his time w/Yao, who is very skilled, rather than Dwight(let me dominate) Howard.
That is a great example. Everybody and Bill Simmons thought that was going to part of some kind of deal, especially since Portland had some holes. I think once the Darius Miles thing went down and Portland was not going to have major cap space this summer, they might have decided to go more conservative.
Still, one thing about WG is that I doubt he would be a disruption if they banished him like Rush. Evans is a maybe on that. Perhaps they could treat him like Donyell Marshall, only break open the glass in certain situations. Hopefully the new coach won't abuse the concept.