DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

Nets Look To Continue Slide at The Wach

Who is the best PG/SG combo in the East?

I'm thinking Chalmers/Wade honestly.

JohnM reply to Joe on Jan 31 at 16:05

Not Chalmers/Wade...not yet - Chalmers isn't close to the class of how Harris or Carter have played this year - and Wade isn't that damn good.

The celtics PG/SG combo is probably better...

Joe reply to JohnM on Jan 31 at 17:10

Yeah, I'll concede the Celtic point.

Devin Carter(stats added and divided by 2) - 21.5 PPG, 15.9 FGA(44.0%), 3.7 3PA(36.5%), 7.5 FTA(82%), 4.1 REB, 5.6 AST, 1.4 STL, .3 BLK, 2.5 TO

Mario Wade(same but then adjusted to the nets' minutes) - 19.9 PPG, 15.3 FGA(46.1%), 3.5 3PA(32.8%), 6.3 FTA(75%), 4.1 REB, 6.2 AST, 2.1 STL, .8 BLK, 3.0 TO

Ehh, an argument could be made either way I suppose. I'll take the additional steals, possessions, and blocks.

Depressed Fan has turned into Stat Fans. Gone are the days of insightful analysis and write-ups replaced by meaningless stats and numbers and worthless ratings. When Naismith invented the game of basketball it was a rather simple game that has been transformed over the years with many rule changes and additions, some good - more bad.

No two games are ever the same on any given night. Teams records, whether good or bad, have no bearing on particular games on any given night. From one on one to five against five, these are the best players and teams in the entire world. Therefore, the hollow numbers and percentages bandied about offer no relevancy to the actual games themselves.

No stats, factors, or ratings will ever supercede thy keen eye.

Joe reply to Bryon on Jan 31 at 18:34

That post was some real bull shit. You just choose to use less statistics for who knows what reason, rather than taking advantage of all the tools available to you.

It would've been a pretty meaningless preview if I just said, "The Nets suck on D," without anything behind it.

Bryon reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 19:23

Just providing some feedback, whether liked or not, nothing personal. There weren't meaningless previews provided for the 2nd half of the season in '07, the whole '08 season and the 1st month or two of this season without anything behind it. I've been loyal and faithful here almost since inception, check the archives from those times to see the shift.

I'll take a look. It's possible I've been getting lost in the stats recently, they do fascinate me.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 19:38

You're not getting lost in the stats - byron is just one of those old school folks who thinks you can catch it all with the eye - except for the fact that the eye can't follow all 10 players at once - he seems to me like an 'either or' fan - philadelphia has a lot of those - mostof em hated bobby abreu - they don't think the understanding of a game can evolve - which is baffling to me on so many levels - either they refuse to learn and see how it broadens the understanding of the total game to include newer stats with already existing information or they just can't understand so they dismiss it rather than admit their lack of comprehension. It really is tiresome - I already stopped posting at one blog which was 'stat bashing' if it was ever brought up - i know a discussion forum where stats are ignored and those interested in the evolution of the understanding of sports are soundly mocked - I can provide a link if anyone wants it.

Bryon reply to JohnM on Jan 31 at 20:41

"..Bryon is just one..." "...he seems to me like..."

I fail to remember when we met. And this coming from a guy who never played any organized basketball. Just keep comprehending all your 'data' while I will keep comprehending a game I played organizationally on multiple levels for quite some time. And speaking of tiresome, it must be, being a message board whore.

Bryon reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 19:44

Hey that's cool. It is your site after-all. And I know from past comments from you that you do have fun with all the stats. Even though I understand all the different stats, the average basketball fan would have no clue what the 3rd from last paragraph above was about.

That 3rd from last paragraph point is fair. I usually provide links to definitions when I use newer stats.

For me, I think you never get the full picture from stats, and you never get the full picture from just watching games w/ no research. I try to do as much of both as I can, and blend the two in what I write. I guess what I hope to do with the blog is give the average fan a glimpse into what the stats are saying, give the stat guys a x's and o's perspective on the game, and give every fan a place to come and have intelligent conversations about the team. Your comments are appreciated because it's a difficult balance to strike sometimes.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 19:57

I don't know ANYONE who thinks you can get a full picture from stats.

Those who hate stats however use it as a constant argument - 'it's not all stats' - like somehow the games aren't being watched and you aren't using the statistics WITH other information - it's a common derisive argument

Joe reply to Bryon on Jan 31 at 20:33


Basketball is still a game. A game we all enjoy watching and many playing. So I think people are always going to use what they see in their evaluation of a team or player. The thing is that there are all these statistics available to cover things that we don't see when we watch or maybe we overlook or undervalue. I think the rate at which a player scores is pretty valuable to know. If you watch a team all 82 games and never consuklt statistics I think it would be pretty hard to tell a 63% shooter from a 57% shooter and that distinction matters.

And if you do consult FG%, then you would admit statistics aren't useless. And I think that more advanced, accurate statistics are becoming available by the day in basketball. OPS hasn't been found yet, but maybe one day.

Anyway, statsitics are extremely important in my evaluation of players, but obviously everything that happens in a game isn't recorded, so the game isn't "solved" by stats. They just help because they can compile so much data for so many things that it would be impossible to see throughout the course of the 1300 games a year or whatever.

Well, thats my little comment. I tend to like your comments on this blog, so I hope you don't take this as some sort of attack.

Bryon reply to Joe on Jan 31 at 21:46

I don't claim to be the king of opinion. I just threw an observation out there with no intent of ruffling feathers. I don't take your comments as an attack. I'm not the personal type unless called out first.

There are many levels of fans as Brian stated above, so catering to all can be a chore. Even though you may be more of a stat guy, I enjoy reading your comments here daily also.

i have a bad feeling about tonight's game

Randy reply to Mike on Jan 31 at 18:54

I would expect Theo to get a few of Sammy's minutes tonight; he seems like the most logical replacement.

I always have bad feelings about any game my team is "supposed" to win.

Wow, Sammy's starting. That's a shock. Tough guy.

236 consecutive games now for Sammy.

Ton of whistles early. Good to see the Sixers going to the rack.

Sammy looks like he's hurting out there.

31-31 after 1. Not a lot of defense going on. The Sixers seem to be taking everything to the rim, the Nets are hitting their jumpers. I like the Sixers chances of staying hot w/ their style better than the Nets'.

O-rebounding still a problem. Theo was first off the bench when Sammy picked up his second foul, thought it might be Brand in that situation.

An up and down team like the sixers never has supposed to win games cause you don't know if jekyll or hyde will show up :)

Plus limited Sammy and Brand still integrating...high scoring first though.

Four+ hours to set up a results thing - who the hell knew it would take that long :)

I got home too late to set my picks tonight.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 20:27

Sorry about tthat - don't forget sunday has early games.

The 'results'/standings thing took hella longer than I thought and I've got a bunch of homework for classes tomorrow - but the next thing i want to do is allow partial entering for later picks (i.e. if you get in late - pick games that haven't started yet) and picking more than one day and editing picks.

Oh yeah - one more thing - the sixers are one of the more 'analytical' teams in the league - long before the revolution they had this pollack guy tracking stuff that no one else does - so if you don't like teams that use statistical analysis as a tool - I think the knicks could use some fans

Who's the guy doing the game with Fratello?

Ian Eagle?

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 19:45

Just wondering - i was motivated to finish what I was working on before watching the game...he sort of sounded like Marv but I know isn't - so i was wondering if anyone knew - seems like a huge step down for the Tsar to be doing Nets games

Lou is looking good. Nice to see a Sixers guard make a team pay for going under the screen. Good work by the czar pointing it out.

Someone should get in this lopez kids way :)

4 blocks already for him, I think 3 of them came on Reggie.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 20:11

Those shouldn't count - much like reggies offensive rebounds off of his own misses :)

I'm pretty sure 2 of his 3 offensive boards were off his own misses. Of course, I think 4 of the Nets' offensive boards came off shots that were blocked by the Sixers. I guess that evens out.

Joe reply to JohnM on Jan 31 at 20:39

Is JohnM also john?

JohnM reply to Joe on Jan 31 at 20:41

Vince to the locker room - strong 3rd quarter

Bryon reply to Joe on Jan 31 at 22:15

And he's Peter Patrelli, too.

Joe reply to JohnM on Jan 31 at 20:40

If I hear a comment on Andre Miller shooting too much I will know for sure.

JohnM reply to Joe on Jan 31 at 20:42

Does it matter? Yes I'm the same guy - SFW?

Ah, the hostility. Cheer up, this is turning into a blowout.

Joe reply to JohnM on Jan 31 at 20:45

Why do you post under 2 names then? Should I start posting under JoeM as well?

JohnM reply to Joe on Jan 31 at 20:46

Cause I typed it differently on the home computer than the work computer - again - why does it matter - if brian asks i'll fix it - it saves it i hardly look at it.

Joe reply to JohnM on Jan 31 at 20:49

Stai calme, signore. Just wondering if we had one hostile john or 2.

Reggie leading the break to perfection! Excellent second quarter on both ends. Outscored them 27-19.

Thad with 3 blocks?

He had one sweet block. Baseline drive, he came from the weak side, waiting long enough, stuffed it w/out getting too close. Pretty play. He's played very well without shooting well over the past two games, which is a good sign for a young kid.

Sammy's back in to start the third. Let's see how long he goes.

Is it just me, or do the Sixers appear to be getting a couple of hometown calls?

Joe reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 20:38

I have never seen my home team ever get a call in my life.

Well - see - that extended look at that movie STILL sucks

Vince Carter has seen enough, "limping" back to the locker room with the Sixers up by 14.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 20:49

Or not

How bad was Sean Williams' attitude if he couldn't stick with this team of quitters?

I'm going to regret this comment.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 20:51

Strong question - i always thought he had his crap together

Then again - i'm hostile cause i'm not impressed with reggie evans constant impersonation of a headless chicken ;)

3 for 11 in the 3rd quarter for the sixers?

Wow - the nets really must suck in the 3rd :)

They finished stronger. 17-15 Sixers in the quarter. Up by 10 heading into the fourth. I'd like to see a strong finish, 20-point win is the goal.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 20:57

32 total points in the quarter - so ugly :) I mean each team had 31 points in the first quarter :)

Royal Ivey is now shooting 39% on the season from beyond.

I'd never think he's an above-average three-point shooter from watching his form. He sort of pushes the ball.

He's benefiting from wide-open looks.

Man, these guys are whistle happy.

That's another sick block for Thad. It counts as a block if it's a jump ball, right?

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 21:11

Not according to yahoo

Iggy's going to take over here. I like this sub pattern by DiLeo.

EB can't buy a hoop. Still working the glass, though.

This is the first time I've heard the crowd all night. 10 straight misses from the floor.

25-6 run for the nets since sometime in the 3rd

I think since I called them quitters.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 21:22

Sure it wasn't since you mocked Vince :)

Is 82 enough to win this one? I don't know if they'll be able to score again.

That steal could be important - especially if Harris gets in trouble

looked like a foul to me. these refs have been questionable.

Come on, need a hoop here. Don't give them the ball with a 1 point deficit for the win. Fuck me.

16.8 seconds left. Down by one. What do you do here? They haven't made a shot in over 10 minutes of game time. Go with Iggy since he's delivered in these situations lately? Go with Lou because no one can stay in front of him? Go with Miller for his savvy?

I have no idea. Nothing has worked.

Donyell coming in? Missed the first. 9.7 seconds left, down by 2. Final timeout. What do you do?

Has to be something going to the hoop.

I don't have any words. That was the worst quarter of offensive basketball I've ever seen this team play.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 21:41

You may recall that I actually called this game for the Nets a couple weeks back. Didn't think we'd lose it on a flurry of blocked shots from Trenton Hassell and Devin Harris though.

Yep, this is the first one I have wrong from my predictions. Did you call the Sixers win @ Houston, though?

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 21:47

I think I thought it would be tight but we'd lose. I'm never impressed with Houston, McGrady's falling off, Yao doesn't play us well. They have a great bench/supporting cast though.

I was at the game. If this was my first game, I WOULD NEVER GO BACK TO A GAME. However, I am a season ticket holder. 3 points and 1 prediction

1. The sixers went cold but they did not play smart b ball. NO outside shots by Lou, every time they drove, it would notdrop.

2. The refereeing was HORRIBLE. Very inconsistent. There is no way that was charging on Maurice based on the calling of the game by those refs.

3. If I thought games are fixed, this would be proof they are.

4. I will go out on the limb and predict a win on Tuesday against Boston.

How bad were the boos for EB?

the boos were for the whole team, not just brand

They should've been, but they were loudest when Brand was missing shots in the fourth. Which is unfortunate.

JohnM reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 23:21

But not unsurprising

Correct, no one specific, the whole team. If someone deserves blame for this, I hate to say but I would say the coaches. No plays from outside for anyone till the very end.

I don't know that you can blame the coaches when the team misses 16 consecutive shots to end the game.

The play DiLeo drew up for the final possession was brilliant, Miller at point blank range without a big in sight. That's a hoop 90% of the time. Just not tonight.

Correct, did not think of it in that way.

can't help but think they ran out of gas at the end of a back-to-back. all their shots were short in the 2nd half. the nets were in the same position though so it's no excuse.

Yeah, I thought about the back-to-back thing. If that even had a little bit to do with it, you put at least some of this loss on the fact that you had to go to the wire against a 9-36 team, when you should've put them away in the third quarter.

Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment