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The Willie Green Quotient

This is just great, I wonder what the results are for the other guys like Daly, Evans and Thad.

This really does show how much Willie and Lou have hurt this team this season. And both of them are still playing way too many minutes.

Brian, you're a genius. Not sure you should be spending this much energy on the Sixers. Move on to the national stage.

just a random question, what does BA mean in the nba boxscore?

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Real and Speightacular reply to jeny on Apr 11 at 10:05
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BA = Blocks against (iow, the number of times you've been stuffed)

Great idea, Brian. Very powerful measure of production/contribution. I like this a lot, it should get play.

You've head of the Curry Line, right? This is better.

If my math is correct, Speights comes up +1.5, which doesn't surprise me since I've made mention before how he doesn't turn the ball over much and he's obviously a highly efficient scorer.

What's the average WGQ for

  • the whole team?
  • Sixers who avg at least 10 mins a game
  • playoff teams
  • lottery teams
  • the league as a whole (using team avgs)
  • each Sixer on a per minute basis
  • You have some work to do but this really needs to be fleshed out some more to see what's there.

    Doesn't hold up for the bigs. If you wanted to make it more worthwhile, you'd weight rebounds and blocks less for C,PF, weight assists and steals less for guards because they're more "expected" stats for the position. This was more of a fun exercise because Joe brought it up a couple times. I wanted to see how Willie and Lou compared with the rest of the guys.

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    Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 9:50
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    Sure, the Sixers need an upgrade at the position. Green can help if he provides offense in the first quarter. DiLeo also uses him or Ivey to spell Iguodala in a small lineup now that Young is out.

    Green is an easy target, but he also has done some good things. He has 28 steals to 21 turnovers over the last 34 games, is shooting 51 percent from the field over the last 15 games and 50 percent from 3-point land in the past 13.

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    John reply to Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 11:58
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    I love when people try to justify the existence over willie green and resort to a small sample size.

    The epitome of the streaky player - he's fungible - and some idiot gave him a 5 year deal

    He does nothing unique or at a high level consistently, he's easily replacable, and not vital to any team that hopes to win any kind of title.

    But thank god billy king signed him for a few years.

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    Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 9:51
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    It's how many of that players' shots were blocked (blocked against).

    this was hilarious!

    Good thoughts, Brian. But, as with all stats, you can make them say what you want.

    Willie Green - 6th year - starter - 9.3/8.2 shots per game/ 1.7 career assists
    Lou Williams - 3rd year - bench - 3.0/4.1 shots per game car/this yr / 2.4 career assists

    While I agree both suck right now, Willie Green is a starter, not a bench guy with 6 years experience. Lou has been accused of not sharing the ball but he has less shots per game and more assists per game, 3 minutes less playing than Willie.

    In coming years (RE: when they're both bench players), I think Green vs Williams is going to become an interesting debate.

    Obviously, Williams has a much higher offensive potential. He's also incredibly incomplete as an offensive player. His midrange shot continually disappoints me, And his shot selection limits his effectiveness as a scorer and makes him terribly inconsistent.

    Willie, on the other hand, has learned to play within his limitations more. His ability is more limited, but he has turned that shot coming off the screen into a legitimate weapon. And, when his shot isn't falling, he at the very least is a competent defender, something Williams isn't. He doesn't create off the dribble as much as Williams, which means less assists, but also rarely turns the ball over.

    When Iggy moves to the 2 and Thad to the 3, if Williams doesn't improve, I think Willie might actually be suited better as the 15-20 mpg spark off the bench. When Louis's shot is off, he's a detriment. Not that Willie's a great defender, but he looks like Scottie Pippen compared to Louis. Right now, I'd rather have the guy that can play within a role, play off the ball, defends, and doesn't turn the ball over.

    I'm hoping that Louis develops significantly in the next few years. At 22, that's still possible. But I'm less confident than I was at this time last year.

    too much effort to prove WG stinks, Brian, we already knew that

    but the guy is right, you should move up to another dimension, this team is not worth such deep analysises, a waste of bball knowledge

    Great writeup, I know we're all a little down on the team right now but is anyone going to the playoff games? Just got my seats for home game 2. This will be the first time ill be sitting courtside so hopefully theyre not down 3-0

    I'll be at games 1 and 2.

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    Steve reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 14:01
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    I just got my tickets today on Stubhub courtside 113 row b for face value i was shocked.

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    Real and Speightacular on Apr 11 at 13:34
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    Ok, I took it too seriously, it really looked like something at first glance, but when you look at the whole roster on a per40 basis, you see that while Willie and Lou look bad, you also wind up with Sam and Theo up at the top, and by a mile. Fail.

    Fun while it lasted. We'll cook up some other formula that weights things and includes points scored.

    It doesn't hold up for bigs, you need to weight rebounds. I did something similar for Dalembert a while back.

    Check out the graph "positive signs" it's a similar metric.

    Here's one of the things i think needs to be done in the off season - i realize that they are not the 'same' player but I think Willie Green and Louis Williams are a bit too similar and since both have longish term deals - whoever coaches the team seems to think both have to play. With a completely healthy (Brand, Young) roster...and a few smart moves in the off season, ONE of them becomes superfluous - my preference is that Willie go, but I don't think you can keep them both, as you have two (to me) way too similar players (bench guys who score sometimes really) taking up two roster spaces when they should only take up one (and taking up minutes as well)

    Not as big as other things on the to do list in the off season (to me) but I think one has to be gone by next season...or a coach has to be hired who realizes sunk costs mean you don't have to play them both...

    If you look at the game logs, Willie was limited to about 15/game very early in the season, then things started going south and Cheeks panicked and started using him for heavier minutes. I think the plan going into the season was for Willie to be way down on the depth chart, hopefully next season it'll be like that the whole way, if he's still here (which he probably will be).

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    Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 16:26
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    I think there are several more important things than Green/Williams, though that could be an issue:

    1) Regardless of who the coach is, what will he do with Brand -- especially if the Sixers continue to play an uptempo system? Brand is too small to be a center and not athletic enough to get up and down the floor at power forward.

    2) Can Iguodala and Young, two natural small forwards, shoot well enough from the outside to play together?

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    Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 17:13
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    Here is an interesting stat:

    In the six games without Thaddeus Young, Lou Williams is averaging 17.2 points on 49.3 percent shooting after averaging 9.2 points on 28.9 percent shooting in the five previous games.

    And still we saw Willie come in for him during crunch time last night.

    Thankyou Tom. I thought I was going crazy as I liked Lou coming in for Willie and had hope for that game. It seems like Lou drives and creates fouls and shots for his team mates. Earlier this year, he was getting trapped into throwing away the ball but now he seems to doing well.

    Why in the world did they take Lou out of the game last night when it was still close, then?????

    Do you think the coaches realize the stats for Lou?

    Who do you think is the most guilty person on allowing so many wide open 3's on defense. When I was at the game, it appeared to be Andre Miller (I hate to say). I am talking about the ones where no one was within 15 feet of them. I think this is unexcusable in my opinion.

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    Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 23:41
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    The point guards (mainly Miller and Williams) are not good at stopping dribble penetration. It all starts there.

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    Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 23:44
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    Willie Green after Cleveland loss: "I think the key is our ball pressure. Teams are getting into the teeth of our defense and kicking out for the easy 3s. We just can’t let that happen."

    Assuming this is the problem, and it isn't something they can easily fix with their current roster, then doesn't it make sense to (a) play more zone and (b) rewrite the defensive help rules? I mean, we continually see guards sink down in the lane to "help" on drivers and abandon their men on the perimeter. Does Miller really help when he drifts into the lane and swipes at a guy driving to the hoop?

    If you want to buy a house, you would have to get the loan. Moreover, my mother all the time takes a college loan, which occurs to be the most useful.


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