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First Look At The Draft: PGs

I don't see much of college hoops either, though I've actually seen Lawson play several times.

This dude is really quick and is going to be very hard to stop. He is quicker than Lou and actually uses it to his advantage, going to the hoop most of the time instead of throwing up bricks from mid-range like Lou. He gets steals and is a very decent jump shooter, including 3-pointers.

The only way we can get him, though, is if we trade up, or we get lucky and other teams leave him there for us @ #17, at which point he'd be too good to miss. Think 2004 when Toronto picked Rafael Araujo and left us with Iggy.

I've seen Lawson bouncing around mock drafts. It's possible he drops to us, I wouldn't bet on it, though.

You are right on with Eric Maynor. His skill-set fits so well with the style of play in the NBA right now. Lawson is also a good match, and I think he'll actually be a decent defender in the league. He may be small, but he's strong, tenacious, and super-fast, making him a great complement to Iggy in the backcourt.

Here are some other guys to think about: Jeff Teague is a good athlete with good size and is fantastic shooter. His defense is a work in progress, however. Patrick Mills is the opposite; a streaky shooter with poor size, but very developed on the defensive end with elite speed.

To me, though, Darren Collison might be the best target. He's a great shooter, a very good defender, and he has that elite speed that is in vogue right now. It's unusual to think of somebody who was a 4-year player at one of the premier programs in the country as under-the-radar, but playing alongside Russell Westbrook and Jrue Holliday will do that to you.

Really, considering the dearth of PGs and the common perception that this is a weak draft, I think the Sixers could even try to get 2 PGs to work with, maybe with contrasting styles. In summation, I'm definitely putting too much faith in the draft as a cure-all, but that's what I do in May. This is the life of the Sixers fan.

Collison is another solid guy I think you could probably plug into the system (assuming we actually have a system by October). DraftExpress has him going in the 20's, Ford ranks him 28th. He might be available if they buy a pick from a team who doesn't want to guarantee the money to a first-rounder. If I had to guess, I'd say #21 is definitely for sale from New Orleans. Marcus Thornton is another guy I'd target if I was able to buy another pick late in the first round.

Brian, agree with your opinion on the points. Wondering if Maynor is legit 6'2''. If so, your looking at a measurement of 6'3'' or better. Good size for an NMA point guard. Teague sounds like a Lou WIll type. Don't need that. I would trade Speights if the sixers have a point guard target who will start immediately. We could then acquire a shooter with the other pick.

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deepsixersuede on May 10 at 8:52
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Noah, contrasting styles, a good point.If we get a late first rounder Calathes could fill an important dual role for this team. They are infatuated with L.Will., so I am going to assume he isn!t going anywhere.A big p.g. that allows Lou to play off the ball but also can be a Korver type shooter when Lou is at the point.Brian, if Curry or Lawson is attainable, I would go after them, but it would be nice if a future #1 was needed instead of Spieghts, but doubtful.I think Maynor will be their pick because of where we are picking and his ability to step right in. They keep saying if Teague isn!t a lottery pick he will go back to school, so he may not be an option.I like Holliday as my second choice because I think he has a chance to be a star, unlike a lot of the other guys.

That's a definite bonus in drafting Calathes, they're saying he could legitimately play three positions in the NBA, if need be.

I don't want them to trade Speights even to get Curry. Athletic big men who can shoot like him are just too hard to find.

Who knows if this is a weak draft? Some conventional wisdom was saying that about the 2008 draft, and, so far, that one looks much better than the much heralded 2007 draft. This one looks more loaded with point guards than any one I can remember. Surely more than one or two of them have to have eventual starter potential.

I think they should try to make a deal with the Timberwolves (preferably involving Dalembert) who have three first round and two second round picks for the 18th pick. They could pick Maynor if he is available and pick BJ Mullens with the next pick (I know he is a project and has some real flaws including lack of hustle and heart, but you can't teach his size and athletic ability). They might be able to pick up another point guard (for insurance and/or depth) from free agency for a modest contract (maybe they could even take a chance on Marbury).

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Alvin reply to paul on May 10 at 12:19
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Lack of hustle and heart, but with size and athletic ability.. sounds too much like Dalembert for my liking.

I was thinking the same thing.

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noah reply to Brian on May 11 at 1:19
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I threw up in my mouth a little when I read that.

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paul reply to Alvin on May 10 at 17:55
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"Lack of hustle and heart, but with size and athletic ability.. sounds too much like Dalembert for my liking."

Yes, but those are not Sam's only problems. He is also a bit dimwitted and emotionally erratic. I don't see those qualities in the Mullens kid. Plus, I was suggesting him as the Sixer's second pick in the draft (with an 18th pick obtained through trade) with the intention that he would be a backup for the time being. Even with all of his problems, Sam would be a exceptional backup center.

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deepsixersuede on May 10 at 12:44
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I read today that the Knicks love Curry and Pheonix likes Flynn.I think Spieghts may get the #10 pick [Milwaukee], a cheap replacement for Charlie V.,but only if E.S. really loves a guy still on the board.Paul, we would all like to keep Spieghts but right now he is the 3rd of 5 power forwards here and if Elton comes back healthy he may not get more than 15 minutes a game for the next 3 years.I think we all agree that we could use a star here and after workouts, if they see somebody that fits that bill, than I hope they go get him, regardless of position.

Yeah, I think they need to get in front of the Knicks to get Curry. I think Memphis is the best opportunity.

Thinking about it, and based on how the Sixers have drafted in the past, I think they're probably targeting Holiday. He's the freakish athlete at the point, and he's also the guy I expect to blow people away in the measurements/combine.

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deepsixersuede on May 10 at 14:08
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Yea Brian, if I!m Memphis putting a perimeter 4 [Speights] next to my low post center [Gasol] is a no brainer. And what would be good for us is Memphis is under the cap so maybe we don!t take a contract of Spieghts value back.

Don't you think Speights would be a top 10 pick this year had he stayed at Florida?

He was projected as a top ten 2009 pick before he came out early last year.

Also, don't think about Sam when projecting the teams future. Their big man rotation will e Brand/Speights/Smith/Evans. Either Smith or Speights will start next to Brand, but Speights will get 25+ min by the end of next year.

You just can't be looking to move Sam and then loose Speights. It typically costs top 10 picks to get skilled bigs. You only trade them away if you are getting a sure thing.

I'm not convinced (a) that moving Sam is a smart move, (b) that there will be any takers for him and (c) that whatever coach we bring in here is going to really want to get rid of the team's best rebounder and only post defender based on what his attitude was like under a series of, let's face it, laughable coaches.

If you're trying to balance whether to trade Speights to move up in the draft look at it this way.

Imagine Speights stayed in school at Florida, and had a pretty good season. Now say you have the current roster, minus Speights obviously, and you have the #6 pick overall. Both Speights and Curry are available, who should the Sixers take with that pick?

For me, it's Curry based on team needs and potential.

I'm a fan of Curry, but I think giving up another decent player is not worth it unless you see him as a future superstar. Sure, this currnet team lacks scoring punch, but in 2 years with Thad, Brand, Speights, Smith and Lou all better offensively then we saw this year the need for a great scorer will be less. The need for a lock down PG defender who can hit a 3 if left open will still be there.

I would take a PG who can Defend and shoot but not necessarily a future 20 ppg player. With Curry you might get a great scorer, but I'd rather get a better defensive PG and give up some offensive upside (unless you see Curry as a future superstar.)

The team should have a good amount of offensive firepower in 2 years. They need a PG who can shoot to spread the floor, but that's about it.

I see this scoring in 2 years:

Brand+Iguodala+Young= 55pts 49% shooting

Speigts+Smith= 20 pts 47% shooting

Lou+Green= 17 pts 43% shooting (and lots of FTs from Lou)

That's 92 points/game on decent shooting and getting to the line. It has lots of mid-range shooters, but not enough 3 pt shooting. I want to add a 10PPG 40% 3pt shooter to the mix- ideally who can lock down PGs (someone like Chalmers or maybe Jack.)

Neither Jack nor Chalmers really fit the bill here. Both were average three-point shooters, neither was particularly good defensively, according to 82games.com. I get what you're saying, though, but I think I'm on a different page at this point.

I think it's a stretch to expect 20ppg for Speights + Smith in two years. One of them is going to prove he can rebound and defend.

If Lou and Green are on this team in two years I hope Stefanski is unemployed

I meant the producion from the back-up guard/wing, as opposed to PG production.

Do you think I'm being overly optimistic about the production from the other players?

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John reply to tk76 on May 10 at 15:54
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I have no idea...it seems doable...but it also depends on who is hired and what philosophy is followed...until Stefanski fires DiLe3o officially and hires someone else, I'm trying not to speculate too much about the direction. The coaching decision should indicate a direction...

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deepsixersuede on May 10 at 16:08
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tk76, I think Speights and Smith are similar players as far as good weakside shotblockers, good jumpshots, weak man on man defenders, so far, and both good compliments to Elton offensively.But I don!t know if 3 years from now both can man the 5 spot on a championship contender.Usually you put a physical defender with them so you can match up against certain teams.Sam will probably be that for the next 2 seasons and after that ,who knows.I don!t see how Spieghts gets that much time till year 3 at least. I hope you are right because that would mean a more conventional lineup with Thad mainly at the 3 and Iggy at the 2 but their penchant for small lineups leads me to think Spieghts will get mostly center minutes, along with Jason.

I'd love to see them get Brandon Jennings. Coming into the league he wont be a rookie he just played a year overseas that is much more physical than the NBA. If they trade up in the draft id target Jennings over Curry Jennings has the chance to become a superstar in the league.

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John reply to steve on May 10 at 16:36
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I think you're over rating theyear he took in europe - and let's not ignore the reasons he went to europe - it's not really hard to qualify to play in the NCAA if you have a functioning brain and even a half assed work ethic.

All that said, Jennings most likely goes top 10.

This is not the kind of draft you give up assets to move up in - there are no franchise changing players really after griffin

Agree, I would not give up a decent player to move up in this draft. Of course it would deoend who you are talking about and how much you have to give up.

In general, I think we have too many forwards and not enough guards. However one thinks we need to get balanced is great, I am not a smart enough basketball brain to get there, but we need guards and if it means loosing a forward, so is it as long as we get a quality guard.

What I am saying, is I am ok w/ trading Speights or Thad IF WE GET A SURE BET (all would agree type guy) in exchange.

Of the ones you listed, I'd be most interested in Curry, Maynor and Calathes.

I'm going to disregard defense somewhat for the following reason. In today's game (after doing away with hand checking) I don't think anyone can stop some of the really quick points / small shooting guards from getting penetration into the lane. Every team seems to have one of those guys too. You won't find anymore Alvin Robertson types who used to be able to stop that as today they'd get whistled constantly (I think Rondo might be closest and even he can't slow Rose or Paul).

First off, I don't want a blazing speed midget as they never stop anyone in the pros anyway. Most don't play D other than gamble for a steal and they get posted up constantly. That takes care of Lawson, Collison and Jennings. I also don't want someone who can't shoot as most of those guys never learn how to shoot in the long run (adios Holliday). Third, I don't want someone who is going to lead the team in scoring as a point. We already have a lot of guys who can score. They need someone to get them the ball. Thus goes Teague.

I like Curry as he's an outstanding shooter, underrated passer and has already dealt with teams gearing to shut him down. Maynor I like as he's pretty much good at everything (good size, defends, passes and was a decent shooter). Calathes because he is an incredible passer and a very good shooter. I'd say we ought to buy a pick to get Calathes as he'd have a role on this team as a shooter and passer even if we got another point.


My ideal draft would be trading Speights to get Curry, and buying a pick to get Calathes.

Starters

PG: Curry
SG: Iggy
SF: Thad
PF: Brand
C: Sam

Reserves

PG/SG: Calathes, Ivey, Lou, Willie
Forwards: J. Smith, R. Evans

Then the Sixers would probably need to sign some depth at PF/C.

Calathes would give them flexibility, should they go with small lineups, it would allow Thad to spend some time at the 4 spelling Brand, give another option at the three when Iggy gets some rest.

Anyway, this is all a dream, but I think free agency isn't going to be the only thing affected by the economy. Teams are going to want to avoid the guaranteed contracts they have to give out for late first-round picks. Other teams may want to sell even higher picks rather in a class that's considered so weak.

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Chris reply to Brian on May 11 at 4:40
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If the Sixers make the moves you'd listed I'd be in seventh heaven. I'd prefer to move Smith over Speights but who's arguing. :-) Unfortunately, I was that enthused after the original Brand signing too...

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deepsixersuede on May 10 at 18:15
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Chris, the no-handchecking rule is why blazing speed midgets work in today!s N.B.A..I agree about Teague, one L.Will. is enough. As far as assets,it will depend on our management falling in love with a guy or being happy staying pat.Their recent drafts would lead to the latter.

Have the Sixers ever traded up? The only time I can think of is when they swapped spots w/ Miami to get Jason Smith. A couple of trade-downs jump to mind. Sefolosha for Carney, Van Horn for Thomas.

Hey Brian,
I actually do some work for draftexpress, and will be at MSG with the draftexpress crew on draft night, so will be able to give a live report of draft night from the floor of the garden.

Also, the tool that you mentioned (which is brought to us by synergy sports tech), is amazing. If I wanted to get every time Blake Griffen posted up on the right block and turned over his left shoulder, I could not only get the stats for those possessions, but I could then pull up every single video of those possessions and watch every one. It's absolutely amazing, and I count myself truly blessed to have access to it.

Because of this, I'm going to be doing a fairly extensive write up about the PG's in the next week or two, when I have the time to fully flesh out the literal weeks of tape I have at my disposal.

The one thing I would worry about with Lawson is whether his shot will translate. Not that he won't be able to make the wide open jumper, but his release is slow, methodical, and he has a low release point. I'm not sure he gets his own shot off all that often, and while he will still have success in transition, an undersized pg who can't get his own shot off is going to be hard to build around. But then again, that's why he's an end of the lottery type player and not higher up. All that said, he made great strides to improve his form and effectiveness on his jumpshot, I'm not sure what we see now is a finished product.

I don't have a whole lot of interest in Maynor, but I'll get into that more when I do my full writeup.

Derek, you have no idea how jealous I am. Definitely let me know when your post is up, interested to see what you come up with.

NBADraft.net cites sources who corroborate that unless the Knicks move up to one of the top three slots, they will pick Davidson's Stephen Curry with the 8th pick.

Curry reportedly chose to enter this year's draft based on the Knicks' assurances.


That's helpful, if they want him they're going to have leapfrog the Knicks.

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deepsixersuede on May 11 at 8:01
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This may be thinking against the grain but I want Curry over Lawson because Lawson is perfect for a running team.I am tired of bringing in guys that can run but maybe not succeed at conventional basketball. Let!s become a good conventional team that creates oppurtunities to run and hopefully come playoff time we have less of an issue scoring the ball. Big week coming up, I hope E.S. makes the right decision.

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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 8:43
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It feels like Smith is this team's Shav - a guy who gets WAY more hype on message boards than the guy's game deserves (this coming from a guy who liked Shav before he got hurt). Comparing his game to Speights' game is a joke, IMO.

And as much as I like Speights, I think that we simply MUST find our PG of the future, and if it takes trading Speights to make it happen, then I think it is something that we must consider. The man-love that the Sixers had for Miller - and lack of TRUE aggressiveness to move him - is the screwjob that keeps on giving. We trade Miller, and at the very least we have a higher draft pick (because we don't make the playoffs) to swap to move up and get Curry...that is, if we didn't get a replacement for Miller with the trade.

If we couldn't have traded Miller for something of value, there were other things we could have done...watching Lowry give the Rockets solid minutes makes me want to throw my TV at Stefanski, for example.

This team MUST get it's PG of the future - and we can't afford to think small right now (both figuatively as well as literally). I thnk that Curry is the perfect guy to put next to Iggy, Thad and Brand, and we have to find a way to make it happen.

About the late 1st pick and the money scaring teams away- I don't get it. I see it the flip side. If you get a decent bench guy (lets say using the 29 to get a reserve big like D'Andre Jordan or Glen Robinson) then you have an incredible bargain for 4 years considering the going rate for reserve bigs (Diop at the MLE.)

The Sixers were lucky to get guys like Ratliff and Marshal for the min. It was because they were seen as a good team after the Brand signing. But I doubt the get good cheap reserves like that this year. Buying an extra late 1st would really help- but I doubt they do it given they are over the cap.

I think you're under-estimating the impact of first round picks. Phoenix has basically given away Luol Deng, Rajon Rondo, Rudy Fernandez, Sergio Rodriguez and Nate Robinson simply because they didn't want to guarantee contracts to first rounders and pay the luxury tax on those first-round salaries.

Several teams are already over the tax threshold, if not teetering on the edge, including Phoenix. I'd actually be shocked if some of these teams don't trade out of the first round and/or simply sell their picks.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:02
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A first round pick usually costs a couple million...

Indications are already that the sixers are more 'budget conscious' than 'win conscious' in regards to the MLE and the luxury tax. Wouldn't surprise me if the sixers are one of the teams not willing to spend millions for a first round pick

Going over the luxury tax is a very, very expensive decision. It's not just the dollar-for-dollar penalty to go over, but you also lose your portion of the revenue share. If they don't sign Miller, or sign-and-trade him, they will have enough money under the luxury tax to use the full MLE and the bi-annual, and buy a pick without going over the luxury tax.

Again, I'm not really sure where you get the idea that the Sixers are nickel and diming the budget. They don't want to go over the luxury tax, apparently, but what else have they done that's been thrifty in the least?

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:15
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Problem is the only way to improve this team significantly is to go over the luxury tax - that's my problem with it

I still think appointing dileo was a financial decision as well...he was already on the comcast payroll and didn't get no raise when he got the job - thus that's an example of cost certainty in my opinion as well.

How many players were on the roster this year - 14 or 15?


So bringing a guy from the inside to finish out the season as interim head coach and not signing a 15th guy for league minimum to wear a suit on the end of the bench are your two examples of the team being cheap? I mean, they did shell out $190M or so in contracts last summer.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:26
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And that was last season - and this is this season - they shelled out 190 million and didn't get significantly better...they had obvious needs on the bench (maybe a 3 point shooter - give him a 10 day try out and see what happens) that they could have signed for the league minimum...didn't do it, and their replacement head coach was a guy with NO nba coaching experience period, but no extra costs.

And this is a corporate owned team in the middle of the worst economic downturn since the 1929 crash.

Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I'm not, the indicators aren't good...if you think they are, that's great, I don't...they're a mediocre team last year, they're a mediocre team this year, and I see nothing to believe that they'll be anything but mediocre for a while.


I just love it when people crucify the team for sins they haven't even committed yet.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:31
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I just love it when people put words in their mouths that they didn't say, and ignore the past like it means nothing.

What past am I ignoring? What move have the Sixers not made because of financial reasons? Were't they paying the luxury tax in the (futile) hopes of building a contender with Iverson?

And how do you propose they go over the luxury tax this summer? The only way they could possibly do it is to re-sign Miller, which you've stated many times you don't want them to do. Or to sign-and-trade him for a player of pretty much equal value and then use the full MLE to bring in another player.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:30
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No see, that's not actually what I said - I'm not sure why people keep saying that, what I said is a minimum amount of years, 2 with some sort of mutual option for a 3rd (if that's even possible) - i said that numerous times, starting around mid season - i never said don't re-sign miller.

As for using the MLE - in a tight economy - maybe you get a restricted FA that a team isn't willing to use their money on...you don't know what's possible, but if you go into the off season saying 'we won't go over the luxury tax' - then you can't even explore the possibilities...


But you're right, i've got wrath, i said don't re-sign miller, and the sixers history has nothing to do with their future.

I apologize if I misquoted you on re-signing miller. As for history and future, again, give me some evidence, some meaningful evidence beyond bringing a guy from the front office who had a hand in bringing every one of these players to the team in to finish the season out and not signing an imaginary three-point shooter to the league minimum. If anything, the Sixers have made bad decisions by handing out too much money, not by being stingy.

BTW, I agree with you about how buying a late 1st rounder is a good idea. I just doubt the team will do it.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 13:15
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Let's not get carried away...DiLeo gets credit for draft picks, but I'm not sure he should get credit for the entire roster (nor am I sure he would want it)


I said he "had a hand in" every roster decision. Doesn't mean he gets credit one way or the other, but he was involved in personnel decisions.

I actually emailed the guy who wrote the DX article and it seems that 'passing/creating' metrics just aren't as developed as shooting metrics (i asked why there was so little discussion regarding the passing ability of the prospects) - they said there's some stuff available that they'll do but iit was a bummer to hear that not as much focus is being made on things like passing by places like synergy - ah well


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Tom Moore on May 11 at 11:19
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FYI: Sixers confirmed Stefanski and DiLeo are meeting this afternoon.

Great, hopefully some news.

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john reply to tk76 on May 11 at 11:50
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Hopefully some 'good' news as well...


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Tom Moore on May 11 at 11:50
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Wouldn't be surprised if nothing is decided/announced today.

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john reply to Tom Moore on May 11 at 11:54
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That would be disappinting as Stefanski has had over a week - if he can't decide yet whether or not DiLeo should come back - well then I'm on the downslope of 'faith' in him...

Even if he does make a decision today, doesn't mean he's going to announce it. The decision could be, "If we can get either of these two guys to coach, I want you back as assistant GM, if not, you're still the coach."

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:04
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Regardless of who they get to coach this team next year, Tony DiLeo should not be an NBA coach, he's demonstrated that, and the 'respect' the players have for him as the head coach has been demonstrated as well. There should be no conditionality in DiLeo's position next year. He should not be the head coach period, in my opinion. If they still think he's a viable option as an NBA head coach, it's ridiculous and either indicates stupidity or 'cost controls' being the primary factor.

I realize you feel strongly about this, but the absence of an announcement doesn't necessarily mean he's back as coach. Save your wrath for when an announcement is actually made and it's not the one you want.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:20
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First off - I have no wrath - secondly if no announcement is made and you don't see it as an announcement I'm not sure what to say.

If Stefanski doesn't say 'Tony DiLeo won't be the head coach next year' - it means that he's still a candidate to be the head coach next year, plain and simple, he's the head coach until he's not the head coach, and as far as I'm concerned, the sooner he's not the head coach the better...no announcement is a tacit implication that he's still a candidate to coach the team next year which is just unacceptable...sure Avery Johnson will openly campaign for the job but some other candidates (Collins reportedly) won't say anything until the job is officially open...and until DiLeo is sent back to where he does his best work, the job isn't officially open.

You may see it differently - but just because an announcement might not be made doesn't mean the sixers aren't saying anything.


Actually, he's never been the head coach. He was never named the head coach, he was made interim coach for the remainder of the season. If we're being technical here.

And read whatever you want into a non-announcement that hasn't even not been made yet. Tacit or otherwise, nothing means anything until they make an announcement either way. Jumping to conclusions is silly.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 12:42
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It's your sandbox - so I guess you get to decide what is silly or not - but your conclusion that the absence of a decision doesn't mean anything is as valid as my conclusion that the absence of a decision means he's still a candidate as far as i'm concerned.

He's the coach, until he isn't, and until Stefanski says he isn't, he still is, and I see no reason why he should even be considered the coach of a real NBA franchise one day longer....

FWIW, the ES went out of his way to say that there was no "interim" label, and that DiLeo was the new coach. Sounds like semantics at this point since he is more than likely OTD.

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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 12:10
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We can't have DiLeo back as HC...not after the way the season ended. It's like the Cowboys bringing Phillips after the 2007 season...he said all the right things about how there was going to be more discipline and accountability...and how did that work out?

Hire Collins. Draft Curry or - somehow - trade for Hinrich.

This team needs a shake-up like the snow-globe with my kids' picture inside.

Firstly I believe getting Curry would probably be harder than getting Hinrich as all rumors indicate you'd have to trade up above 7 to get him...and he's just not worth it, the hype on Curry is already over the top...it's the New York effect I guess?

I don't see your plan as a shake up of any significance


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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 13:00
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John:

First of all, I think getting Hinrich would be more difficult, as the Bulls would want either cap relief or a quality big in return - things that the Sixers had before the deadline (Miller's contract) and do not have now. I don't know if a 3-way S&T with Miller can accomplish anything, but I doubt it (damn).

I don't know if Speights and #17 is enough currency to hop in front of the Knicks, but given the lack of respect that this draft seems to be getting from a lot of people after Griffin and Rubio, there might be a team that would like to get 1) a player in Speights that has already shown some ability and is locked in at reasonable $$$ for a while and 2) a flyer on a player at 17 that certainly won't have the profile that a player at 7 has, but a player that will also not be as expensive, either.

Perhaps you don't think that Collins and a PG like Hinrich or Curry would qualify as a major shake-up...but I would. Look at what Collins did with the Bulls...he was the one that put a non-traditional PG next to MJ...not a Miller/Paul/Williams-type...a SHOOTER. He was the guy who put Paxson next to Jordan...a guy who was far from a traditional PG...but a great shooter who opened up the floor for MJ and Pippen...

Isn't that what we need - a PG who can shoot the ball and open up the floor for Iggy and Thad?

I would take Collins and Curry/Hinrich over virtually any other option that can realistically be attained...and I would view that as a shakeup.


Isn't that what we need - a PG who can shoot the ball and open up the floor for Iggy and Thad?

I don't know what the sixers need, I keep being told that they need a point guard who can shoot the ball - but I don't necessarily buy that they need a point guard who can shoot (i don't deny they need a shooter)

Yes - it's a weak draft - so why trade a piece AND a pick for move up to draft a guy who in a solid draft might have been available at 17 in the first place...and the knicks supposedly have been in love with curry for a couple years now - let em have him...I think it's a bad decision and that the hype on curry is beyond his ability...for some reason the fact that his dad played in the NBA seems to factor into his draft stock for some - personally I'm not sure it makes that much of a difference...

Speights has the potential to be the first low post offensive threat the sixers have had in how long? If he can develop his defensive game to go with his already pretty refined offensive game he's going to be a good to very good power forward in the NBA and people want to get rid of him AND a pick to get a shooting guard to play point who played at a mid conference school and put up large numbers.

That's fine and everything, but my personal opinion is that aside from griffin (and maybe rubio) there's no one in this draft I'd give up either speights or young for, straight up, let alone for a pick as well...

You trade away speights and 17 to get curry you've created one hole while hopefully filling another hole...you now have to find a big man that can play offense since you've traded the only low post threat you have for a guard.

As for Doug Collins, why didn't he end up back in Chicago? Why has he been out of work for so long? These are questions I'd want to a little bit of information about before getting real excited about the guy.

I never said anything about Speights and a pick. Speights alone should be plenty for the #6 pick.

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john reply to Brian on May 11 at 18:18
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Someone else said Speight and 17 - i wasn't referring to you particularly

I don't know that i'd trade speights for #6 - I just think curry is over rated in a weak draft

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Real and Speightacular reply to john on May 11 at 19:31
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A buncha quick points then this fella needs some shuteye...

* Trade Speights? Absolutely bonkers in my mind if you're not getting Griffin, Harden or possibly Rubio back in return. In all seriousness, I think Speights is a top 5 pick if he stuck around for this year's draft. For sure Speights >> J.Hill.

* I dunno where you guys were lookin but I recall all the chatter for last draft being how deep it was.

* I'm not a swing-for-the-fences guy when there's major holes to be filled. Curry's college numbers are impressive but not at all confident they translate fully to the NBA. If you're going to be a short 2, you better be damned athletic and that Curry's not. I think he makes a super-duper sub, but kinda iffy starter. And no way I trust him at the point (to run my team?!) just yet. Lawson will have a much better career at the point than Curry anyway (injury-willing). No how do I swap Speights for Curry.

* Given point above, if I had the GM hat, I'd be swingin hard for Maynor for a starter if there's no way Hinrich is gettable. Can wait til we talk about how to get a good 2.

* Yay, DiLeo's gone! Nothin personal, but dude was in way over his head. I'm comfy with either Avery or Collins short term. Setting the right team identity for the established/confirmed key guys is the prime thing right now.

Sorry for the spray all over the place, had to catch up somewheres ;-)

p.s. if that Sergio Llull can defend at just an average level, he could be a wicked steal for somebody.

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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 13:24
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john:

If you are not committed to Iggy, Thad and Brand being your 2, 3 and 4 for the forseeable future, then fine - we move either Iggy or Thad for a shooter. However, if you are ready - as I am - to commit to those three players as the focal point of this team, then the PG absolutely MUST be able to shoot the ball. Did you see how packed the lane was on defense with Miller out there? How about running the pick-and-pop (or pick and roll) with Brand - can you do that with Miller (or any PG who cannot shoot)?

If Iguodala is tyour 2 and Thad is your 3, the PG must be able to shoot the ball from distance, IMO. If you do not agree with that, fine with me...just be prepared for our wings to have to continue to drive into a clogged lane.

I have no idea why Collins did not take the Bulls job this time around - do you? What I do know is that in the first season after he takes over, Collins wins 10, 18 and 18 more games, respectively, with the three teams he has coached. Is he perfect? No. He probably will have a short shelf-life - 3 years max (which is why I want somebody like Eric Snow on the bench as the coach in training). But Collins is a guy who stresses defense and player accountablilty...and after the ridiculous lip-service that DiLeo gave to those two things when he came in, I am ready for a coach who is actually going to DO IT. Collins laid the groundwork that the "Zen Master" parlayed into a boatload of rings (unless you think that Jackson's work with the Albany Patroons was what got it done).

Of all the guys that are being mentioned as available and actually gettable, Collins is at the top of my list, and it isn't even close.

I don't know about collins - that's why i asked :) I would like to know why it didn't work out - was it a dissatisfaction with the roster issue? Was it a control issue - he couldn't get enough? Was it a money issue? Was it a 'not sure he wants to put in the hours' issue? I don't know these things, they weren't made public - but since we don't know I can't give a 'blank endorsement' to Collins - Stefanski would need to ask and find out what those issues were that led the Bulls to go from Collins to Mr Del Negro...I'm just saying, there are unresolved issues (publicly) as to why he didn't go back to the Bulls when it seemed like a sure deal.

Again, I'll state that as fans we don't know which assistants would make good coaches unless they're names are splashed all over by the media - all fans can really do is bring up the retreads who have been out of work for a while or who burnt out too quickliy...I don't like ANY Of the names mentioned - for a variety of different reasons...

Lke I said before, I see the sixers roster as the island of mismatched toys...and some serious work needs to be done before they can be serious contenders...I don't think Curry is a solid piece and I wouldn't give up a solid piece (Speights) and a pick to get him....

There's one position this draft is deeper in than others, and that's point guard...I see no reason to reach for a guy in a weak draft...

BTW - interesting note on Curry

His 3 point attempts per game dropped a bit this year - but his percentage dropped from 43.9 to 38.7

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Tom Moore on May 11 at 14:27
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I don't believe Stefanski is allowed to get into luxury-tax territory.

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john reply to Tom Moore on May 11 at 14:31
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Well we do know that, the dispute seems to be what that indicates in regards to Comcast's commitment to winning :)

Is that a 'no matter what' kind of no or is it a 'if it can put us over the top we'll consider it' kind of no?:)


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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 14:31
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john:

I would think that - in his first full year as PG - the energy that he had to expend in both running the offense and being the guy that opposing teams focus ALL of their efforts to stop might have had something to do with his 3pt% dropping a bit...right?

I'll take him.

And if you think that the Sixers are a roster of mismatched toys - yet you don't want to trade Speights - then what is your plan to balance the roster? Do you think that we can get equal value for either an Iguodala or Brand trade? Which one would you trade? Would you trade Thad? If you do not think that Iggy, Thad and Brand can all play together, then what changes - specifically - would you make to this "mismatched" roster to fix things? Do you believe that guys like Sammy, Evans or Green can be traded? What do you think we could get for them that would either 1) improve the balance on the roaster or 2) give us more roster/salary flexibility?

To me, not only do I not think that we can't make a deal for either Iggy or Brand that makes sense, I don't want to trade them...they are our two most complete, professional players. Thad has the potential to be a star, so he ain't going anywhere either in my book. Don't get me wrong - I love Speights - but he seems like the only guy that we can move that can accomplish something positive...that is, to move up in the draft to get an impact guy. I think that guy is Curry - for the reasons I mentioned. I don't want a smurf PG like Lawson. I need a guy who can shoot the ball.

I would love to hear how you would fix this "mismatched roster"...

I don't know how i plan to fix this mismatched roster - it requires a lot of work

tell you one thing though - i don't draft a shooting guard playing out of position to be the point guard - cause that's another guy playing out of position - and haven't sixers fans gotten tired of a shooting guard starting at point guard?

I know I have

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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 15:01
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john:

A shooting guard at PG?

What did I miss?

In what universe was Andre Miller a SG?

And the whole point that I tried to make with Collins is that John Paxson wasn't a traditional PG before Collins put him in that role, but he was the right guy to put with MJ and Pippen. Same with Harper/Shaw/Fisher with Jackson in LA. The problem with this Sixers roster is/was Andre Miller - he is a fine traditional PG on a team who needs a non-traditional PG. And if you want to bring Miller back - or a Miller-like PG - then what other moves do you make...trade Iggy for a Ray Allen/Michaael Redd SG? Move Iggy to the 3 and put Thad on the bench? Move Thad to the 4 and Brand to the 5?

Getting a PG whose strengths are shooting from distance and playing defense seems to be a much easier solution...and it is a system that has won championships in recent years. Iggy is a wonderful playmaker and facilitator - he would have no problem handling that part of the game...and having a shooter that opposing teams MUST respect on the floor will have such a positive impact on what we can run - we can run the pick-and-pop/roll...it will make it harder to double Brand (he is a good passer as well)...much bigger lanes for Iggy and Thad to drive to the hole...


In what universe was Andre Miller a SG?

Who said I was referring to Miller?

I was referring to Iverson


I did not go through all of the 82 comments, so excuse me if this has been said, but I am intrigued by bringing in Tyreke Evans to play PG. Hometown boy. Amazing scorer. And a year of PG experience at Memphis.

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john reply to Mike W. on May 11 at 15:18
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From The DX article on Evans (since it's not pay per use I don't htink they'd mind)

Tyreke Evans has the scoring tools to be productive, but needs to improve his perimeter arsenal to be efficient.

Evans was the top player on our list in possessions used per game as a finisher at 8.8, and his PPP of 1.14 lands him a bit above average. Unfortunately, his overall PPP was .88, which lands him slightly below average and exposes the biggest weakness in his offensive game: his jump shot. His PPP in open catch and shoot situations was a paltry .86. Couple that with only .69 PPP on jump shots off the dribble, and it becomes abundantly obvious that Evans is far from a complete package offensively. His PPP of .54 on isolations is a bit disconcerting as well, but it shows that he’s opportunistic enough to find his way to the rim in other situations, while also displaying his tendency to force the issue in one on one opportunities. Getting fouled at an average rate and not being too turnover prone, whichever team drafts Evans needs to take the time to develop his jumper to help the transition of his dribble-drive game to the NBA.

Not much of an outside shooter compared to others it seems...whether or not his a hometown boy shouldn't be a factor (though there are some who argue that playing in a guys home town is actually detrimental to his career...not sure anyone ever did any looking into it - just something i've heard a few times) and a guy probably coming out a year early.

Aside from Rose - the record of recent memphis guards in the NBA isn't exactly stellar - including that guy the sixers drafted...

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Tom Moore on May 11 at 15:23
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4:30 conference call with Stefanski today. Could be that DiLeo won't be back as coach.

Or that he has signed a 3 year extension like Triano in Toronto ;)

-Well maybe not...

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bebopdeluxe on May 11 at 15:40
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tk:

You really know how to hurt a guy.

ESPN 950 reporting tthat DiLeo will not return as head coach

JVG on at 4:05 Eastern Time
Stefanski at 5 easten time

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Tom Moore on May 11 at 16:20
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It's official. Sixers sent release.

Oh my - mike missanelli might be dumber and more ill informed than howard eskin.

Seriously anyone who floats the 'should have gotten josh smith' instead argument just should be beaten since they don't seem to understand there was no shot that the hawks weren't going to match :)


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