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Reggie Evans: Less Is More

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deepsixersuede on May 23 at 14:22
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Brian, I believe you said it before, he may win one game for you in a 7 game series against a better team by doing something crazy, call it the D. Noles effect [G.Brett].Watching the physicalness of Denver makes me wonder if he may be needed if we get that far, as a fuse lighter to change momentum.In our regular rotation, no; but unlike Willie, he may actually be able to jump in the fray and have an effect.

I disagree with this post.

The DReb% argument is very skewed. Ignoring the fact that Reggie played very little minutes with Dalembert and most likely played a small % of his minutes with Iguodala or Miller is just crazy. Those are the best defensive rbeounders probably on the team for their positions.

Thad's differential is positive, which is enough to just throw it out for me. Hello, Iguodala and Miller, the guys Thad always played just about all his minutes with. In fact 9/10 of his top 10 units in minutes had Miller AND Iguodala. And his top 3 lineups had Dalembert. When you look at the lineups with Miller and Iguodala and Evans(6/10), a completely different picture forms. In fact, in those lineups, the Sixers were +42 in 342 minutes.(+5.9 per48) The Sixers were +184 in 1657 minutes.(+5.3) Those are ridiculously useless small samples.(one of the major reasons +/- sucks)

Reggie's worst game looks fine to me. 8 rebounds in 18 minutes=16 per36. He took too many shots, but that was probably because of him getting his own rebounds. Adjust the offensive rebounds with FGMissed and he went 3/6, 5 boards, 1 TO, 2PF. That isn't a horrible line.

Look at Reggie's production by position. He is outrebounding his opponents +4.4 and +5 at PF and C for what that stat is worth.(per48)

I’m not saying Reggie is great. I’m not even saying he is well above average or anything. He wasn’t holding this team back in the least, though, and he can rebound very well still. Elton Brand, a good/great rebounder according to most, has never sniffed 19%, Reggie’s reb% this past year. Brand managed 17% once and 16% once. Every other season was in the 15s or 14s, ignoring this past season’s small sample size where he was in the 16s.

Arguments against Reggie, in my mind, should only be on his inability to score and his poor shot blocking, the aspects he struggles at and was NEVER expected to be good at ever in his entire pro career. Granted, he used to be a monster on the boards, now he is just probably a top 20 rebounder at PF/C. (If I can get team stats downloaded and figured out and linking 2 different spreadsheets in excel I’ll check this and report it)

More is more for Reggie as far as I am concerned. I, personally, wish he played a lot more minutes for this team to help offset the major rebounding problem that occurred when Thad forgot how to rebound this past season.

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John reply to Joe on May 23 at 17:24
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Well you think the defensive rebounding issue should be ignored - but it's a consistent problem - it's not just this year.

And i'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that his increased offensive rebounding isn't offset by the fact that offensively he's worse than sam dalembert...that's right reggie evans is a one trick pony and it's only a half trick cause I don't believe he has any other tools offensively to help that rebounding...if he had even a modicum of offensive skill that offensive rebounding number would be so much better.

As far as I'm concerned he has limited to no uses, and fine he wins you 1 game in a 7 game series because of some nonsense about running around like an idiot with no direction bringing energy - how many games DOES HE COST YOU for being not very good?

Unless Speights makes no progress in the off season and jason smith breaks his leg - if evans is on the roster he shouldn't have more than 5-10 MPG and mostly only if folks are in foul trouble...

There are several ways to slice and dice the rebounding numbers. I get what you're saying about who Reggie was on the floor with, but just to give you a stat that points the other way, look at this:

Reggie on the floor with either Brand or Dalembert: Team defensive rebound rate: 69.7% (319 minutes)

Team defensive rebound rate with either Dalembert or Brand on the floor without Reggie: 71.5% (2,099 minutes)

Over half of the minutes from that second number came with Thad playing the 4.

You can slice it anyway you want. Reggie was constantly out of position on defense, which isn't his fault, it isn't even necessarily a bad thing, considering he was much more effective playing that spaz defense, but the bottom line is that it made the Sixers a worse rebounding unit.

The spaz D accomplished a couple of things, it slowed the pace of the game and it disrupted the other team's half-court offense. The disruption was positive sometimes (causing turnovers), it was negative sometimes (the extra pass very often ended up with a wide-open layup). There's a place and a time for it, ironically, it's usually effective for short spurts against the better teams who rely on their half-court offense. I don't believe you can count on 1,000+ minutes from Reggie and consider yourself a legitimate contender, however. At least this Sixers team can't. He has his warts on defense, and he's a complete zero on offense.

He's black

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John reply to Kyle on May 23 at 17:58
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And?

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Joe reply to John on May 23 at 18:10
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ugly

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John reply to Joe on May 23 at 18:22
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Well I don't call him shreks unspoken of brother for nothing...

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Sean reply to John on May 23 at 19:19
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Lol. I know somebody who calls him Ugly Shrek, which is worse than just plain Shrek. What's interesting is that I call Chauncey Billups "Donkey." Between those 2 and Golem being Flip's new assistant... The NBA is not a real pretty league

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Statman reply to Sean on May 23 at 19:58
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Hah, speaking of ugly, the more I watch these playoffs, the more I can't believe how ugly Turkoglu is. He might be the ugliest player in the NBA this side of Cassell (or is that who "Golem" is -- you mean Gollum from Lord of the Rings, right?).

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Sean reply to Statman on May 23 at 21:26
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Yeah, sorry. Got my folklore and fantasy mixed up

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noah reply to John on May 23 at 20:06
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One of the best things about Depressed Fan is the quality of the comments, like Joe's analysis above. It's a nice change of pace from places like philly.com, where the comments are filled with stupid bullshit like this thread.

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DeanH reply to noah on May 23 at 20:14
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thank you for pointing that out. Don't even read philly comments hardly at all.

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Sean reply to DeanH on May 23 at 21:40
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I used to go there, now it is pretty much here, RealGM and Liberty Ballers sometimes. ReclinerGM as well. Better convo, less sheer goofy talk

Couldn't agree more. I've tried to avoid it, but I'm going to try to use a little bit of a heavy hand to keep the conversation focused on hoops.

Don't forget Chris Kaman folks - he's got some ogre blood in him

Count me among those who can't stand Evans' game. The kamikaze double-teaming 40 feet from the basket might work against a team that for some reason isn't prepared for it, but it leads to easy baskets most of the time. The telling stat is the opponent production number (courtesy 82games)of 22.3, even worse than Speights/Marshall/Ratliff. (Brian -- glad you pointed out that Evans is a horrible defensive player; a lot of casual fans don't notice that.) Combined with his own low production of 11.9, the PER differential of -10.4 was just a horrendous number for anyone not named "Kareem Rush."

For some reason, the Sixers' announcers just love Evans (or maybe Zumoff just loves to say "lunch-pailin'"). What I find funny is that they raved all year about Evans' improved free throw shooting, and what did he wind up shooting? 59%. It was a career best for him, but still not anywhere near adequate.

The one thing Evans is useful for, which others have touched on, is changing the complexion of the game. He brings a certain physicality that the rest of the team doesn't have. If he played hockey, he would almost certainly be the goon. But in basketball, it's much better if your enforcer can actually play (think Maurice Lucas in his prime).

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Sean reply to Statman on May 23 at 21:35
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Yeah, enforcers that actually can ball. Charles Oakley was a good one. Derrick Coleman, when he was healthy and motivated, made Iverson's life a little easier. Though the best Sixers that I can remember were actually when Barkley and Mahorn were a tag-team as Thump & Bump. Man, you get tossed out the league if you played like that now.

Back to Reggie, I agree that he is one of those wild cards to be used sparingly, if ever. As Brian has discussed before, he has a talent for disrupting organized, precision offenses, especially those that rely on sequences and timing. If the team is isolation or improv heavy though, Reggie becomes a double-negative, useless on one end and reckless on the other.

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DeanH reply to Sean on May 23 at 21:54
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Chris Anderson (Birdman) seems to be a good energy guy. And he scores and blocks shots. And I bet is he paid alot less than Reggie.

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John reply to DeanH on May 23 at 21:59
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And served a long suspension for drug use and thus will get his big contract in the off season. Reggie Evans makes less than the MLE - he's just paid for too many years.

I'll bet you good money that Anderson makes more than Evans 4.9 million next year - and gets a multi-year deal

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DeanH reply to John on May 23 at 22:12
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I thought Reggie was paid more than he is paid. Still too much but got confused w/ his pay and what is left for him to be paid!

You are correct completely.

You really think Birdman gets the full MLE? I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure. I think we could be looking at MLE being used on guys like Iverson, Bibby, Sheed.

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John reply to Brian on May 24 at 12:35
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I think much like James Posey that ANdersen is earning more money than he is worth this off season, many teams will use that MLE to bring in such a 'energy' 'experienced' guy...however, if andersen doesn't realize that he needs his support systems (which reportedly are only in denver and new orleans) he could be in for a bad fall

It's not just the sixers announcers (the worse of whom will mercifully not return next season) it's a portion of sixers fans who seem to love Reggie Evans...it's a common phenomenon I've noticed in all Philadephia sports teams that I pay attention to (cause come on folks, it's hockey)...the rocky blue collar nonsense.

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Sean reply to John on May 24 at 10:33
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Well, The Philly media in so many of their facets often mistake energy for effect. So that, in this town specifically, anybody who is frenetic in their action, even if that action is fairly worthless, will be praised. Meanwhile, anybody who plays with a smooth and/or cerebral style smoothly will always be the brunt of jokes and potshots in the media, and therefore with the fans, even if they are giving just as much "effort."

So, a Reggie Evans gets mad love for his "energy." Meanwhile, a guy like Mike Schmidt or McNabb has an up-and-down relationship with the media because they don't know if he "cares." Are you kidding me?

The high majority of the media of this town has no idea about basketball whatsoever, especially about the NBA. Watching Comcast SportsNet(especially DNL and that hack Barkann), listening to Sportstalk, or reading certain writers, I came to realize that they speak with a kingly authority while knowing absolutely nothing. They will spout platitudes or just slam people instead of trying to understand, or gain perspective. Plus, they are lazy in general. I am convinced that the major reason so many media members in this town consider the Sixers as "boring" is because for a decade AI practically wrote their front pages for them.

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John reply to Sean on May 24 at 12:38
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Again, it's not just the media, the fans have the same problem, and are a lot more offensive at their expression of it towards the unnecessary negative

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Sean reply to John on May 24 at 13:56
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You are right, it is not just a media issue, but I think we are debating a chicken vs egg issue. The media helps frame the "smoother/cerebral" players as nonchalant or uncaring, while the grinders are praised for obviously and demonstrably giving max effort. Fans constantly receive this frame and filter their perceptions through it. Thus, the easy, superficial appreciation for the Evans types, "because he tries hard."

Plus, people(both fans and media) often falsely fall into the trap of thinking that the Players do not want to win as much as they do. Yes, there are some dogs here and there, but that doesn't indict the whole breed as guilty until proven innocent by wearing your heart on your sleeve and sweating blood, guts and tears every time out.


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DeanH reply to Sean on May 24 at 14:52
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One can pick on the fans here in Philly but being from here, I believe the media is the main problem. I often listen to talk radio and all they have on are football people. As far as I know, they do not have any retired baseball, basketball or hockey players but a long roster of retired football players. And, then, we wonder why the media is so incompentent here in Philly.

The Inquirer had to import Kate to cover the sixers this year. WIP has no basketball people, atleast WPEN Jody and Mike Miss try to cover it but don't understand it.

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John reply to DeanH on May 24 at 14:59
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The media gives the fans what they want - they care about ratings - if the idiocy of WIP didn't work - then they'd change formats - the fans fuel the nonsense because the listeners and fans fuel the ratings.

Oh yeah, you folk who call up to 'yell' at them help just as much as the morons calling up to agree

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Sean reply to John on May 24 at 17:26
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The problem is that, to the Media, there is no problem. Even in the areas that are in their wheelhouse(Football or baseball), their ideas are just goofy. The SportsTalk guys are generally idiots, they have idiotic conversations and there is no repercussions for their idiocy because they make loads of money being idiots. I have not listened to WIP in years. It is a losing battle, like you said, because chastising them(especially angrily) would not work. And the sheep won't help.

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John reply to Sean on May 24 at 17:32
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It also doesn't help that the sixers are fourth - at best - in philadelphia - no matter what people try to say it goes eagles flyers phillies sixers probalby

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Sean reply to John on May 24 at 18:16
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True, but given how much passion is here for College Hoops, the Sixers(with better coverage) could make a run at 3rd. I remember when the Phillies were an afterthought. If the Sixers could contend(especially with an aggressive, entertaining style), they could tie the Phillies.

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Sean reply to DeanH on May 24 at 17:18
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Ain't that the truth. If you ever watch Daily News live when they are talking basketball, especially if Dei Lynam or Phil aren't there(not like they are hoop geniuses either), it becomes embarrassing. They make the most idiotic comments, expressing a lack of thought I would not accept from my teenaged nephew. If those who are in a position to act as a "voice of authority" are no more than simplistic amateurs then how do we expect more from the masses.


Reggie does bring personality to the game. He plays with spirit and he is a likeable guy. Ideally, he would be used twice a game. Two 4-5 minute stints. Hopefully, next year, we get quality minutes at the 4/5 spot to limit his time on the court.

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John reply to sfw on May 24 at 12:40
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Personality spirit and likability

What do any of these things have to do with playing nba level basketball...

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Tom Moore on May 24 at 10:54
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Hi. Link to missed opportunity in '07 draft: http://www.phillyburbs.com/opinions/blogs/intell_blogs/tom_moore.html

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deepsixersuede on May 24 at 12:29
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Tom, thanks for ruining my sunday,just kidding. We have a draft party every year and the whole room was down when we took another 3 [Thad] but reading about him the next day I felt better. I actually thought Smith might be their pick at 12.I wanted to keep the p.g. [Koponen] at #30 and thought Fasenko could be a serviceable center of the bench but what can you do?

Yeah, it seemed BK did not think much about Euro players. I am hoping that Stefanski can dig out some rough diamonds, NJ had Nachbar, Krstic and others during his tenure.

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John reply to Sean on May 24 at 14:04
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I always wondered about that, was it King or was it the scouting department. Nothing really has changed since King left in terms of speculative draft picks that are under contract in europe.

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Sean reply to John on May 24 at 17:34
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Well, the old anecdote regarding the Hughes pick was that Larry wanted Hughes, BK wanted Pierce and DiLeo wanted Dirk. Plus, someone on another message board said they saw DiLeo scouting in Germany recently.

I am cutting Stefanski a break, because they did not get a 2nd round pick last year(which is normally where those "safe deposit" picks happen, to help with the buyout issues.)

I am hoping they do get a 2nd this year, there is a player I like named Sergio Ulull.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Sergio-Llull-5023/

He could be a good prospect, but it might take some doing to get a 2nd

You certainly have some agreeable opinions and views. Your blog provides a fresh look at the subject.


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