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Draft Day Rumors and Discussion

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252009/sports/moresports/wolves_on_path_of_kahn_176015.htm?page=2

If the Rockets get stoudemire for mcgradys expiring deal (and aaron brooks and some other piece) i'd say that's not a bad haul

So

PG: Lowry
SG: Artest*
SF: Battier
PF: Stoudemire
C: Yao **

* if he re-signs
** if he can walk

I think that could be a contending lineup. Stoudemire's defensive flaws somewhat hidden by the Battier/Artest combo.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 12:30
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I think the rockets think that even if mcgrady is healthy he's dispensable based on their playoff run last year (of course they're also downgrading at PG), but if Yao comes back healthy - and taking the summer off should help that - that's a strong team is lowry progresses (or if they upgrade at PG in the off season...not out of the realm of possibility...after they make the trade)

I think it does more to make them contend than the spurs getting jeff :)

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Tray reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 12:46
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Shit, they've already got a contending lineup. Imagine a full season of Brooks playing on that kind of level.

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john reply to Tray on Jun 25 at 12:48
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Well if they trade for stoudemire or to get into the lottery - brooks would be part of the deal.

Imagine if brooks is just a playoff wonder and regresses next season - my guess is that if houston is willing to trade him is it's because they don't believe he's really as good as the small sample size of the playoffs and want to cash in on his 'hype'

He was also playing against two stationary PGs in the playoffs (Blake and Fisher), which probably made him look a little quicker than he really is. His regular season numbers weren't spectacular by any stretch.

Andy Katz has a mock draft on espn. He has Lawson going to the Sixers and Brandon Jennings sliding all the way to #23. Wow.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 12:25
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Guys like Katz and Bilas are college guys for ESPN - while I guess they can understand rubio I think they discount Jennings too much because of his path, but seriously, again, the sixers shouldn't pass on this guy

Minnesota won't give up 5/6 to get 2 - leaning towards Evans and Curry

Houston very active - trying to get in lottery

If it goes through, I think you can kiss Mike Bibby goodbye, Hawks fans. A source close to Bibby told ESPN.com that Hawks management has sent the signal to Bibby that they might not re-sign him this summer.

Louisville's Terrence Williams has a right to be upset. After working out against Gerald Henderson on Monday in Charlotte, Williams thought he got a promise to be drafted by Charlotte at No. 12. Larry Brown had fallen in love with him, and Williams was confident enough that he skipped a workout the next day with New Jersey.

Then Michael Jordan showed up. According to sources, Jordan isn't a big Williams fan and would prefer the Bobcats either trade the pick or draft Wake Forest's James Johnson.

Michael Jordan - well established as a genius at running basketball teams and drafting players.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/news/story?page=09DraftBuzz-090625

I haven't been following Jennings career closely. Can anyone give a brief commentary on what his strengths and weaknesses are?

Well he was the #1 rated prospect in his HS class:
http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/

The last 6 #1 HS prospects were:
Amare Stoudemire 2002
LeBron James 2003
Dwight Howard 2004
Gerald Green 2005 *
Greg Oden 2006
O.J. Mayo 2007
Brandon Jennings 2008

Not a bad track record for a guy who mightslide to #17.

For a summuray of his skills read the Draftexpress or nbadraft . net profiles.

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Jeff-Philadunkia reply to tk76 on Jun 25 at 14:02
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Wow! What a bust Gerald Green was! Had no idea he was rated that high out of high school.

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john reply to Max on Jun 25 at 12:50
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Many discount him because he didn't go to college and instead spent a year in europe and the propagated 'attidue' problems that have some comparing him to Iverson or (even worse) marbury/telfair.

I find it unfair attribution to a kid, and most one on one interviewers seem to have nice things to say about him.

If the talent is real - someone will get a steal - but sadly it doesn't sound like it'll be the sixers

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Max reply to john on Jun 25 at 13:50
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Thanks for the info guys.

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Jeff-Philadunkia on Jun 25 at 13:42
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I love how the Knicks always make moves on draft day. It's pretty much the only time they make moves...other than benching Stephon Marbury of course.

Um...no - it's not

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Jeff-Philadunkia reply to john on Jun 25 at 13:51
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Well at least the only time they make trades people care about. Larry Hughes? Al Harrington? Talk about all-time underachievers.

I'm sorry - but what you said was they only make moves on draft day which is grossly inaccurate - now people have to 'care' about them?

Personally, I don't give a damn what hte knicks do in general, except to laugh at all this 2010 scrambling when I expect they'll come up empty and have to pay steven nash for like 4 years at max dollars and get nothing else.

They make moves a lot - they make more moves than the sixers - on draft day and in trades - you didn't say that I had to care about them.

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Jeff-Philadunkia reply to john on Jun 25 at 14:00
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W/e, that organizations going knowhere unless they get Lebron. Moving to tonight who do you like more Maynor or Lawson? I've seen both of them play a good amount and I feel like Maynor is a better scorer while Lawson is a better passer. Who do you think would fit the Sixers better?

Jennings :)

Between Maynor and Lawson I'd go with Lawson I guess, but it's mostly a coin flip.

Told you it was for sale :)

If the sixers can't get a cheapy second - just remember they could have bought 29 :)

I don't want to buy a 1st rounder unless it's for Collison and they take a SG earlier.

#13 (pacers) I think is the key to the remaineder of the first round. They could go after a pg, or they could go big. this pick will tell who the sixers get, for sure.

in my mock draft (i do one every year to compete with a couple friends), i think/hope #13 will be jennings or blair. i'm praying it's not lawson, so we can nab him.

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john reply to Mike W. on Jun 25 at 14:21
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Reggie Miller thinks they drafting a point for what it's worth

Tj Ford said that he thinks he is going to be traded...on his Twitter account.

Reggie said that he was told a trade of a PG was most likely and that opened up for his statement about the drafting of the PG.

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john reply to The GM on Jun 25 at 14:38
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I've always been fond of TJ Ford

Brian - I hate the auto playing ads - they crash my safari :)

I have no sympathy for Mac users. Sorry, have too many mouths to feed at this point to be overly picky w/ ads. You can mute the volume, though.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 14:45
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Won't stop the crashing - just the noise :)

It's a new thing - just changed today - i just have a problem with intrusive internet marketing in general - not your fault and i know you need the income - but 'laudry' commercials on a sports blog? Don't they eve know their market :)

I have no sympathy for PC users - being beholden to microsoft and it's godawful operating system - then again i use them both

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:00
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True advertising geinus - make the mute button only 'one shade' away from the black - quite hard to see :)

Makes sense. The only question is which one...Im assuming it's only b/w Jennings or Lawson...

Anyone else heard this story about Tyreke Evans?

He was apparently the driver in a drive-by shooting, but never charged as even an accessory. His cousin did the shooting and was sentenced on tues.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 14:50
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Not for nothing - but how is this not an issue whereas something Brandon Jenning said is driving people nuts?

I don't know the whole story, but I find it kind of hard to believe that he was driving the car and had no knowledge that his passenger was going to shoot someone. In fact, I think even if that was exactly the case, he's still culpable to some degree.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:13
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Here's the only way to escape culpability in that situation.

If you don't know it's happening, you drop your brother off and you go to the police IMMEDIATELY and act as a witness - i don't care if it's family - you don't shoot folks.

Any other resonse than that, and to me that's a bigger 'character red flag' than Brandon Freaking Jennings

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Tray reply to john on Jun 25 at 15:34
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Basically because it happened a long time ago and people have short memories. Also I suppose he was a good citizen at Memphis.

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john reply to Tray on Jun 25 at 15:36
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I guess the hypocrisy shouldn't surprise me - but if jennings slips past the sixers - then i'l be ticked really

Ford updated his mock draft, now he has the Sixers taking Maynor with Lawson going #19 to Atlanta, and Jennings going before Holiday, who goes to the Pacers at #13.

If this is the case, and Holiday is sitting there at #12, I'd call Charlotte and take that deal for Dalembert. Assuming it was actually proposed by the Bobcats, and turned down by the Sixers.

Ford is in a rush and didn't do full update. if you'll notice, under sixers, it still says "with lawson off the board, they'll go with maynor"

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john reply to Mike W. on Jun 25 at 15:11
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Not ford being in a rush - ford being lazy - it's been the same update for over a week - and he had lawson in there for a long while :)

I wonder if they could get up to #12 or #13 in a small move. I don't see Holiday as Jim O'Brien type of guard, they may move down for cash or a future pick.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:15
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That just makes too much sense to happen

Minnesota is hoping to land a specific player at No. 18 -- who could be Earl Clark (Louisville) or James Johnson (Wake Forest), among others. If that player isn't available, then the Wolves are expected to trade the pick, according to a source.

Brandon Jennings is scheduled to be one of the 15 players in the green room at the draft. But he could be pulled from the green room. Representatives of Jennings were huddling to make a decision on Thursday.

DO NOT LET HIM SLIP PAST YOU ED

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/news/story?page=09DraftBuzz-090625

Stein says later that if Jennings slips past 10 he might slip into the 20s

I still don't now why Austin Daye is there - i heard he was sliding?

I haven't read all of these comments but I assume everyone has heard the #17 and Dalembert for #12 rumor?

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john reply to Mike W. on Jun 25 at 15:18
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Yes - but the original 'source' (yeah i know brian) says it's no longer a discussion anyway - the only real source of that trade was a guy who posts on realgm.com who some lend credence too but who makes brians blood boil :)

I've calmed down on that note. I'll get fired up again when his streak of missing things that actually happen stretches to 15 :)

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:46
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You must admit - from a purely 'academic' sociological thing - watching that 'rumor' just get repeated over and over until it's given legitimacy by 'print' media is hysterical?

My second favorite one ever - the best involves a radio suggestion by hacksaw in san diego that within 30 minutes was all over the web as the sixers and clippers talking about iverson :)

Hollinger answered a question someone you guys know may have asked :)

Ed Stefanski (Philly): Should I trade Speights to move up and grab Stephen Curry?

John Hollinger: No way. I think the players between 5 and 9 on my board are largely interchangeable -- that would include Rubio, Curry, Harden, and Flynn. Sixers shouldn't reach just to get themselves a shooter; they can always get pieces like that in trade or free agency, as they did with Kapono.

Here's the link to his chat.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:17
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Wasn't me - I've been trying to get ONE espn chatter to comment on jennings the past couple days - no one seems willing to take the question - which makes me even more wary - cause this IS a big deal

Twas me. I'll see if I can get a Jennings question in.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:19
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Oh read it wrong - saw it as you inquiring who asked it :)

Sorry - but if I did an espn chat - fake names would be immediately ignored :)

I've sent in a bunch of questions - not one taken yet - getting one sixer question through to hollinger is a miracle - good luck on two :)

They seem to answer questions w/ the fake names more frequently.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:25
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Yeah, I know - that always struck me as dumb :)

espn doing something that is "dumb"...never! haha

New Rumor: Amare to GSW in a deal involving the #7 pick. Nellie is denying, though.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 15:54
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League execs,, unnamed sources, bah humbug.

#7 and Biedrins - it's not chopped liver.

But I don't get the thinking in phoenix - period - stat is younger with more tread and plays PF but they want to focus on the older nash - who they'll have to give a big extension to to keep?

They should be shopping Nash

The funnies thing about the SF rumor, was that a full week after he said it was going nowhere... RealGM puts in the Wiretap that the Philly Inquirer reports a possible trade.

Of course the paper was just referring to the RealGM rumor, but now all of the sudden RealGM was giving it print media credibility.

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John reply to tk76 on Jun 25 at 15:58
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That's what i was talking about in the 'socilogical' aspect of it - like that iverson to clips thing a few years ago on realgm.com

Holling claims there's a 'big trade brewing' - lets see if he says a damn thing about it

Yeah, the Inquirer was actually pointing to a blog post about the realgm rumor :)

Ultimately it was all Tom Moore's fault ;)

He's the one that gave the story its legs.

Vince Carter for Courtney Lee Rafer Alston and TOny Battie?

Hollinger claims that's a brewing

Holy shit. That certainly changes things. Could they possibly keep Hedo as well?

Nelson
Carter
Hedo
Lewis
Howard

Holy crap. Probably going to be

Nelson
Carter
Pietrus
Lewis
Howard

Though. I don't see how ORL can afford to match a full MLE offer for Gortat.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:02
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Holling implies that they wouldn't keep Hedo - can't afford him now - Vince makes beacoup cash (and has longer deal)

I think it's a step back for Orlando and keeping Hedo would be better since they aren't stripping their bench in the process...Lee and Rafer were both quite important in their run this year - even with a healthy nelson they'd be needed...plus is vince the 3 point shooter hedo was?

W/ Hedo, they're better. W/out, they're worse. Alston needed to leave, though. He was not going to accept being Nelson's backup.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:07
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Well if HOllinger is right - this means no Hedo - so let's go with no hedo - and no courtney lee - was courtney lee a 'playoff wonder' or did the magic just over pay greatly.

I don't know that Alston wouldn't have accepted the back up role - if he had all summer to acclimate to it - but he ain't starting in New Jersey - unless of course they traded Devin Harris?

This to me is a 'sparkly thing' trade - vince carter used to be 'great' and he's still sparkly but I think the ramifications if they include losing HEdo AND Gortat and now having to find a quality back up PG and replacement for lee (did battie play much) are just nuts for the magic.

I think if they start vince and pietrus instead of hedo - the cavs beat em this year

It's too early to say things like "The Cavs beat 'em" too much can happen between now and the beginning of the season, let alone the beginning of the season to the playoffs. I doubt it'll be the same two teams in the EC finals. A lot is going to change for both of them as well as the 6 other playoff teams.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:18
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I'm just saying that I feel they made their team worse - and that if you took hedo and those 3 guys off the magic and replaced them with vince - this season - the cavs would have beat them - i think this deal makes the cavs happy :)

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Tray reply to john on Jun 25 at 17:25
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Vince isn't sparkly anymore. He's just an underrated player. Seriously, nobody talks about Vince anymore, but he's right up there with guys like Redd and Joe Johnson.

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john reply to Tray on Jun 25 at 17:34
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That's not exactly pleasant company as I thik redd is grossly over rated - if you said johnson maybe :)

He's grossly over paid for what he does and I don't think he's as valuable to the magic as the mis matches with turkoglu to strip their bench like that.

Do the magic forget that before nelson went down they were one of the best teams in the NBA with the roster they had - even before the 'rise' of Lee and obtaining alston who i think would accept a back up role (he'll have to in jersey).

To me it's the kind of panicked lost in the finals inducing trade that the magic shouldn't make - you know like obtaining shaq to try and beat dwight howard :)

Has any new news even been released on this?

I agree that Vince is still a pretty productive player. I don't agree that Redd is in the discussion with those two guys.

So much for your best backcourt in the league, Tray.

Alston had to be moved. He pouted his way through the finals whenever Nelson was on the floor, plus there's always going to be that perception that Orlando made it past the Celtics and the Cavs w/ Alston on the floor, so maybe they're better off with him. It's the same reason the Eagles had to let Jeff Garcia go when McNabb came back that year. Just like a QB, you have 1 starting point, or you have no starting point. (I just made that up, will trademark later).

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 18:58
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I know he pouted because I think the Magic handled it badly - I think alston would have adjusted over the summer if he had time to get used to it. ANd I don't expect he'll be any happier on the bench in Jersey but now that's jersey's problem.

Let's put it this way - they didn't have to rush (or maybe they did with july 1st) - i'm hoping maybe they talked to Alson about it going forward - cause their bench was strong int he playoffs - they've weakened now but the fact that they gave up 2 valuable pieces (and battie) and they'll also weaken it when they lose hedo and gortat making pietrus a starter.

So you lose 5 roster pieces of varying value AND a bench player is pushed into a starting role - that's a lot to give up for just Vince Carter?

True, but I think there was a serious concern they'd lose two of those guys already (Hedo and Gortat), plus I think Alston had to go. I guess they figured in Carter they got a versatile offensive player, maybe more versatile than Hedo.

If I was the Magic, I wouldn't have done it. I would've just brought Hedo back and tried to move Alston in some other deal.

I know the NETs move to brooklyn is on indefinite hold - but they just clear a lot of cap room for next summer if this deal goes through

It's actually moving forward now. I think 2012 is the last date I heard. I live about a 5-minute walk from where the arena will be.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:15
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Last I read - this was like 2 days ago - there was a huge fight over the 'air rights' that was putting it on hold again - did something change? I don't keep close watch just what hoopshype tells me.

I really help it fails miserably as the name brett ratner makes my blood boil - isn't the developers fault but still

Brian, so do I. I'm right up flatbush from the site basically (although moving back to Philly). There is a lot of room there for a stadium

Yeah, I think it'd be cool to be able to walk to an NBA game anytime I want, but the traffic at the Flatbush/Atlantic/4th Ave intersection is going to be just ungodly on game nights. Hopefully people will realize you can't drive to the games.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:29
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Well - they won't have lebron - so how many people are really going to show up :)

Depends on how they're priced. It'll be really easy to get to by train, plus it's right in the middle of a bunch of neighborhoods that people actually live in. Walking distance for a ton of people. Plus, with the Knicks sucking so badly, I think Brooklyn may just embrace the Nets.

Also, from a talent perspective, the Nets have Lopez, Lee, Harris + whoever they pick #11 this season, and oodles of cap space. I think they're a much more attractive destination for LeBron than the Knicks.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:41
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Hollinger made a good opint - Lebron James has an awful lot of money - but still chooses to make his primary residence in Akron - not sure he'll enjoy being away from home - and he's already global :)

Brett Ratners just need to fail - be it building gaudy monstrosities or making crap ass movies

I can't wait for Rush Hour 6.

You should come to Brooklyn, hang out with the do-gooders who are trying to stop the arena. Apparently they've grown really attached to the defunct railyard it's going to displace.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 16:47
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Yeah, I don't get involved I just observe and mock - seriously thought you got that already - i have enough crap to worry about in my own life to care about defunct train yardds and carbon footprints and the lovely view of whatever they are losing :)

Seriously though - there's ALWAYS a group against whatever is being done...

ANdy Katz who loves him some college basketball but to me is kind of a tool has a chat in about 20 minutes - i bet he has nothing to say on Jennings as well except that it's 'important' to get that year of college

Katz left his chat rather early after showing up late to 'chase trades'

anyone have any info about who the knicks would take at 8 if flynn and holiday are both still available?

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john reply to Mike W. on Jun 25 at 17:15
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Katz says Holiday

If those two are they, I'd bet $1,000 they take Flynn. No way D'Antonio is going to take a guy w/ defensive upside over an offensive guard. Honestly, I doubt he takes either of those guys, though.

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john reply to Brian on Jun 25 at 17:37
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How about 5?:)

Brian, the knicks love holiday. they've brought him in twice. im with you, logic tells me they'd take flynn, but you can't ignore what insiders are saying, and the multiple workouts, including one this week

Didn't his first workout end poorly? Something about confidence problems. I seriously, seriously doubt they draft Holiday, not if D'Antoni has anything at all to say about it.

ESPN reporting that the magic and nets have agreed on a deal.

All this, the draft, AND michael jackson - seriously

Indications are that the warriors phoenix suggested deal was never really that close to happening and is now dead - suns would have also wanted curry in the deal - warriors supposedly didn't even see curry work out.


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