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Jrue Holiday: PG Of the Future

I really, really like this draft pick. Imagine having Dalembert/Brand/Thad/Iguodala/Holiday on the court at the same time, the defense would be as good as any other team in the league.

In the meantime I expect him to play spot minutes. It'll be good to play him with Lou or Willie in the backcourt, making up for their phantom defense and lack of IQ.

Subtract Sam and add Gortat and it's scary on both ends, IMO.

If I were Ed, I would be calling NJ to see if Rafer's available. Don't know what trade rules apply, but his salary is manageable, and you gotta think he would rather start for us than back up Devin Harris. Question is who we'd be willing to part with to make it happen.

deepsixersuede reply to Matt on Jun 26 at 8:20

Matt, the guy I like is Dooling on New Jersey and he would be a nice fit,a willing defender.Brian, my one negative thought from last night? What could Thibodeax do with this future starting 5.

I actually prefer having EJ with that unit because the defense will good no matter what. However, Jordan can make that team work on the other end. I was thinking last night, if Jrue can play big minutes by the end of the year and you are running that team out there, how many teams in the L can run a 5-man unit of plus defenders without really sacrificing any offense? You have 3 legit 20-point scorers with a athletic defenders at the 1 & 5, and the one is no slouch on O either.

I could get behind Rafer, but I don't see how they could really get it done. NJ is really gearing up for next Summer and with the Brooklyn deal in place, and this as their roster heading into that free agent class I think they're going to be very, very attractive:

PG: Harris
SG: Lee
SF: Williams
PF: ????
C: Lopez

They only have $31M committed to players, and that number can even be slashed a ton more because Hassell and Dooling have partially guaranteed contracts, and Yi and Shawn Williams have team options. They could legitimately afford 2 stars that Summer. You think this lineup could compete?

PG: Harris
SG: Lee
SF: LeBron
PF: Amare
C: Lopez

I don't think they're taking back any of our contracts.

Real and Speightacular on Jun 26 at 7:28

I don't know. I'm pretty deflated but I suppose hope springs eternal. The way I look at it, kid's got some eye-popping defensive numbers but his offensive game is kinda soggy. You've gone from salivating over a shooting wizard (and average defender) to panting over a defensive terror (who can't shoot much at all).

You can't say he had a shite team to play with and you can't say he didn't know what he was getting into when he signed at UCLA (did he really expect to displace DC in his first year?). One scouting concern had him as the top-ranked point and the other big one had him as the top 2-guard. He's a mutt. Not exceptional at either position. Which may be fine enough for a princeton offense but I don't see a star in waiting here.

I still think they should've gone Lawson, but I guess Holiday, in time, will be a good enough player. My two cents.

Wild, wild, draft.

Hmmn. So you're blasting Holiday for thinking Collison would leave for the draft last season, when pretty much everyone thought Collison would leave for the draft last season. Gotcha.

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 13:01

Brian - can you tell me who russell westbrook played for again? What position did he play and who didn't he beat out as starter?

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 14:38

Heh! If you see that one side point as a "blast," well, my goodness. You're right tho, I don't know when highschoolers had to commit to a program -- I'm assuming it's sometime early summer -- and mebbe someone gave him bad advice re Collison's readiness to make the jump to the NBA. But I doubt it was everyone who thought Collison was a lock for last year's draft. Draftexpress, for example, from as far back as March 07 assumed he wasn't going til 2008.

"If Collison steps up his scoring a little more next year, and continues to play tough defense and distribute the ball well, he could very well hear his name called in the 2008 lottery."

Amazing what you find when you take a minute to look something up vs just declaring something so (tho i admit the declaration's a lot easier to do).

In any event, nobody was putting a gun to his head to jump in the pool. He could have stayed and tried to prove something, but mebbe again someone advised him he was a lock for a high lottery spot and he couldn't possibly do better with one more year of seasoning under his belt with Collison gone for sure (y'know, cuz he's finally a senior).

Draftexpress thought Speights was a lock for the 09 draft and projectd him as a lottery pick.

It's an inexact science - expecting them to be right 100% of the time and then calling them out when they aren't (and yet not giving them credit when they are) is disingenuous

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jun 26 at 14:45

I think that's my point precisely, John. There are no guarantees unless dudes a senior (and even then). Anyway, it was really an incidental remark out of my out comment. Pick the points you will.

Real and Speightacular reply to Real and Speightacular on Jun 26 at 14:44

Ugh. Apparently i don't follow my own advice sometimes. Can't believe I got caught in a reading comprehension problem.

Nevermind. Point ceded.

eddies' heady's on Jun 26 at 8:53

*Sigh.* So we just drafted Ivey's replacement for, pretty much, at least the next two years. Jordan said this pick would be the 9th-10th guy for situational purposes. He was right about that.

As Alvin said above about 'it will be good to play him with Lou or Willie in the backcourt making up for their phantom defense', it will have the same negative reciprocal effect on offense on the court with those two - no one capable of making a shot.

Thought most were in agreeance here that the team had to have a shooter at the point to complement Iguodala's facilitating prowess. But now the team has to possibly digress and sign over-the-hill, defensively lacking (shooting too if it is Miller) point guards to play major minutes because they drafted a long term project (can you say Lou, but with some semblance of defense).

The kid may one day pan out, but the Eastern Conf. isn't that daunting right now as evidenced by our near man-handling of the Magic in the 1st round. Just don't see how this helps us markedly climb the ladder for the forseeable future.

Holiday = Ivey (short term) and Iguodala-lite (long term), with the key being Ig's isn't the most consistent shooter himself.

carolina blue on Jun 26 at 9:13

I really like the way the Sixers are aquiring some guys with really high pedigree. Due to their record, they're having to do it by drafting them a year or more before they're ready - but, they're getting mid-to-high lottery talents who slip because they're raw.

Between Young, Holiday and even Williams they have 3 elite level talents that would have been drafted MUCH higher had they entered later drafts.

It's a risky way to build, but it's got more upside than just drafting the "safe" guy every year, and it gives you a better chance to break through the ceiling of the infamous NBA Purgatory where you're too good to be bad and too bad to be good.

I copied a bunch of analysis and links on Jrue here:


I do hope we keep Miller for another couple of years, to teach the kid the job

a two year deal until 2011 looks fine for me, I'd rather keep Andre than go with the Rafer Alstons of this world

Think of him much like we think of Thad.

1. He has a natural position (PG) and can give you minutes at SG (next to Lou.) That is being versatile, not being a tweener. Like Duncan is versatile at PF/C and not a tweener. Its a good thing.

2. He will be just scraping the surface on his potential this year. But like Thad, his length, smarts, character and willingness to play within himself will earn him minutes early. He will have some value in his 1st 2 years, but his true worth hopefully shows in 2+ years (by age 21.)

3. These same traits could allow him to develop faster than people think. Since he is somewhat of a natural with the ball in his hands and will not be asked to "run an offense" he could surprise us and pay instant dividends. Sort of like how Thad's touch and instincts around the hoop made him a nearly immediate impact player, even playing out of position.

I wonder if those who are down were this down when the sixers drafted Young.

Immediate impact was slim to none in this draft, I think the people who are disappointed cause the sixers didn't draft the immediate impact guy at #17 in one of the weakest drafts ever had unrealistic expectations of who they were going to get, I think people convinced themselves that lawson was going to be very good from day one, and that's pretty unlikely in my opinion. The sixers got a steal (third year in a row) in the draft and are building a solid core.

Holiday isn't a finished product any more than Young was after his first seasons, let alone after his draft, his game will mature and improve, you can't say what he's going to be...but the odds and signs point to him being better than lawson after at most 2 years, and I'd rather have the go who is going to be long term good to great than the guy who is going to be average with a lot less room to get better...maybe i'm wrong, but history doesn't indicate that you get much out of 17 any way

Real and Speightacular reply to John on Jun 26 at 14:52

I don't think it's the same thing. Thaddeus' one year to me was more impressive for his position than Holiday's one year for either position he played. Everyone's got potential. Sessions realized his last year -- who in the world would have predicted that out of the 56th spot (or wherever) he was picked? Not a single, solitary soul.

And that's what it's about here, at this point. Are expecting great things out of this guy, or hoping for great things from this guy. His one year was not too impressive to me (I think he could have done himself a favour by going back if he was really confident he could improve greatly on that first year) and so I'm in the hopeful camp.

It's all gonna come out eventually so really not much point in going on too much about it.

Sessions actually realized his two seasons ago skiles idiotically left him on the bench.

I know very little about Thad at G-Tech - but I don't think you can compared his situation at G-Tech which is currently second tier ACC at best versus the expectations and team set up at UCLA

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jun 26 at 16:50

I've never met anyone this skilled at purposefully missing the point. Anyway, I didn't make the Thad comparison, J. You did. Remember?

Lots of irony in that statement you made there - considering the discussions between you and Brian that often occur.

You seem to be purposely missing all the points that contradict your 'i looked at the stats so this is my opinion' way of looking at it

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jun 26 at 16:59

Heh. The irony runs many levels, guy. Bob and duck as you must.

Agree with John. Had Holiday not been there, I would have been happy with Lawson - I think he'll be a good, solid player. But Holiday has better size and a higher ceiling. My guess is that he'll be getting meaningful minutes off the bench by the end of the season. This team was not going to contend this year no matter who they drafted. It's really about 2 years out and beyond.

I like Dre Miller and wish him well, but if Dala is going to be our 2 guard he's just not a good fit at the point. As many on this site have said, need a guy who has a decent outside shot and can defend his position reasonably well. For my money Alston would be the best option there.

T Digg reply to Matt on Jun 26 at 10:05

I'd like Alston too... who'd NJ want from us in a trade for him?

John reply to T Digg on Jun 26 at 10:08

Something the sixers don't have probably - expiring deals. I think they're clearing cap space to make a real run at Lebron and Brooklyn.

The Nets are about to get a rather good infusion of cash from stable money men (one of them the 24th richest man in the world) and push out Ratner - according to si.com today.

I don't think the sixers actually have the bullets to get Alston

I liked Alston in the playoffs, but is he a full season guy for two seasons in an offense that is structured like Jordans is.

I have to think that if he was going to be unhappy backing up Jameer Nelson in Orlando (as our fearless leader keeps telling me:) ) - he won't be happy backing up Devin Harris either...I expect he's probably available from the Nets.

Here's the problem though - he expires next year - how do the sixers get a guy who expires next year?

I still think Sam Dalemberts negative additions to the offensive set that Jordan will run would outweigh his positive defensive additions. HIs lack of any semblance of basketball IQ and passing ability is going to KILL Jordans offense and I really think Jordan would rather start Brand at center than Dalembert if those are the only two options.

It's still a long off season and the sixers have a lot of work to do to be able to contend in the next year or so.

DeanH reply to John on Jun 26 at 10:10

I agree with you, John, for a change. All your comments are great insight.

Wow, from the downer so many fans write, it is like the sixers had the 1st pick in the draft and blew it! Where in the world is the common sense gone with the fans here and on other websites? We had pick #17. We got a top 10 talent by ALL the rankings I had seen.

I remember watching the sixers last year play with no one finding the open guy. Miller taking those dumb shots with another guy wide open near the basket. Or Miller, shooting 1 for 10 and still trying to get his groove. Guess what, those days will be past soon. We have a TRUE Point Guard that likes to pass first, shoot 2nd. We need a player on the court like this with the quality guys we have (AI9, Brand, Thad for example).

And, as was pointed out, he considers defense as being important that we all had concerns over since Jordan has been hired.

Man up, guys. Look objectively at Holiday, if you do, you will be 100% in agreement with Brian and others that love this pick!

On a negative, why in the world are the sixers so cheap that they could not buy a 2nd pick to get a shooter? Why?

john reply to DeanH on Jun 26 at 10:26

On a negative, why in the world are the sixers so cheap that they could not buy a 2nd pick to get a shooter? Why?

This assumption bothers me. To buy a pick and get the guy the sixers wanted, the guy has to be undrafted and the pick has to be available. Based on the twitter post last night (as we have nothing else to go for) the sixers had second round targets and were probably trying to buy a pick but couldn't get one high enough before all their targets were gone. The assumption that they were 'too cheap to try' is one I find lacking any coherence as the information provided (albeit by the sixers) was that they tried but couldn't find a partner before their targets were gone. They'd have no reason to send a twit before the end of the draft to such an extent if they were just too cheap.

You don't buy a second round pick just to buy one - and according to the sixers, they couldn't get one where they wanted so they didn't want to just buy one to draft 'a guy' not on their radar

T Digg reply to DeanH on Jun 26 at 10:36

Yours is the rational response, Dean. I guess the people you're talking about are failing to recognize the good fortune we had here.

Maybe people are just still very confused about our starting lineup this Fall, since Jrue obviously won't be part of it. Who's our starting point guard? Is it Miller or will we trade for someone... or will we pick up a vet in free agency? Will the Iggy/Thad/Brand combo be playing at SG/SF/PF or SF/PF/C? Can we win with Brand playing major minutes at center? Can we get rid of Dalembert and find a suitable replacement (e.g. Gortat)? Would that guy start at center? Can we acquire another decent shooter for this team? Is there a chance he'd start?

john reply to T Digg on Jun 26 at 10:39

IF they drafted Lawson or Maynor I'd still wonder who the starting oint guard would be coming this fall as I am not sure either would be 100% for sure ready to run a new system in the NBA at a high enough level after just finishing up college.

Just now the sixers future is much brighter at the point right now.

Real and Speightacular reply to T Digg on Jun 26 at 15:00

That's probably it right there. How does Holiday fit in? If you believe, as I do, that Lawson could step in and eventually (ie, by midway through first season) be a productive point for your team -- and that's what you see as the team's glaring weakness -- then a Holiday pick, if like me you see as more a combo guy, is somewhat dissapppointing. Or at least kind of confusing. I guess we have to trust that the Philly brainstrust has a genius masterplan. They do have a pretty decent record draftingwise, so there's that.

Why is Holiday a 'combo' guy to you? He's a point guard, he was a point guard his entire career excpet for one year at UCLA when Collison was the point.

I haven't seen anyone assert that he's going to be a combo guard but you - he's a 6'3 6'4 point guard who was the #2 high school prospect about a year ago.

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jun 26 at 16:47

dude. i'm not making this up, i didn't pull it out of my @ss. just google it. it's not hard. takes, like, two seconds.

Well those are the 'not so in the know' aren't they?

So we take them calling them a combo guard seriously - but not the rest - I see - makes total sense.

He says he's a pure point - the sixers say he's a pure point my guess is that the sixers and Holiday are probably more informed.

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jun 26 at 17:03

If you are telling me you scanned thru the links and only saw mocks, you win (tho i'd venture you're overdue for an eye exam).

you're a hoot, j. honestly!

Obviously, John, if it's said on google, it has to be true.

I mean, why should I spent hours upon hours of my life actually watching game tape (including dozens of hours of his high school game tape when he actually played point) when I can just google to make my argument.

Anyone who says Jrue is a combo guard is misinformed IMO. They probably look at the boxscore, see "shooting guard", see he's not 6'6", and assume he's not a true point guard.

Jrue Holiday is a true point guard. He has point guard skills, a point guard mentality, and a desire to play point. He played shooting guard for UCLA BECAUSE HE WAS ASKED TO, and because he has the defensive ability to defend the 2. That doesn't change that his natural position, his best position, and his desired position is a point guard.

Holiday's frosh stats are almost identical (actually slightly better) than Deron Williams and Holiday is a better athlete. :

Nice find.

Real and Speightacular reply to Chris on Jun 26 at 15:05

Well not in the areas you watch for in a point guard, namely total assists and assist/turnover ratio. Tho maybe in this new system those don't count as much.

At some point you'll let go of the fact that Holiday was playing out of position at UCLA right?

Russell Westbrooks A:TO ratio was also pretty bad his year at college - under 2.

Total assists means jack. Assists/40 or assist/40 and A/TO could all be meaningful if you're looking at a point guard, not so much if we're talking about a shooting guard, which is what he played.

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 16:42

Assists/40 is exactly what i meant, as is total assists/game, sorry for any confusion (tho really it pretty much amounts to same thing).

At the end of the day, this really isn't worth more gum-flapping. You are thinking you got a "steal!" (which doesn't mean a whole lot in such a weak draft, anyway) b/c all the not-so-in-the-know mocks had him as high lottery material; he's a good athlete; great defender; played out of his natural position. Fine. I get that. I really do.

However, it is possible to have a different opinion. I look at the numbers (I didn't see him play enough to have a strong opinion from that perspective) and I still say, "meh." It's ok. Really. Pefectly legal and it doesn't mean you're a defective turd just because I think differently. Relax. And the end of the day, the truth will out and in a couple years we will have a much better sense of what kind of point/combo guard he's going to be.

As I said before, everyone's got potential (I gave the example of Sessions who was picked in the high fifties a couple of years ago). It's a matter of the confidence in if/how far he'll realize that potential. You guys have a lot. "Jon" seems to think he's another Westbrook (which, even if you think Holiday's in his athletic class -- he's not, in my books -- is not a big whoop anyway). Ok. Hope it works out that way, I really do.

Still would've preferred Lawson and we'll see about him too, all in due time.

And you make no allowance for the fact that he was playing out of position and wasn't the point guard...that kind of has some relevance but seems irrelevant to you.

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jun 26 at 17:17

Well I've acknowledged that you think it's a major factor and, for sure, it can't be denied. But here's the thing, the fact that he played 2-guard should only really affect how many assists he has in a game (mind you, T-Will managed lots of assists as a 2-guard, too). If you have pure point guard skills, your A/TO ratio is going to be better than what he did this past year. That's my opinion.

Anyway, seriously, I've said enough on this and I'm too much on the defensive over this. It's an opinion. It's like you (and Brian) are invested in squashing a different viewpoint, like it's an outright challenge to your manhood or mental prowess or something. Chill out. The truth of the matter is nobody knows how this kid's going to turn out. There are no clear indicators with this kid (well, other than his defense which i don't think anyone can piss on). You may think I'm being too much of a downer on him, I think you're painting too rosy a picture. Alright. We've stated our opinions but neither of us have the superior crystal ball. Enough already, this is long past boring.

We'll know in a couple of years. We'll convene a meeting soon enough and I'll meetcha back at the clubhouse then ;-)

eddies' heady's reply to Real and Speightacular on Jun 26 at 17:41

So eloquently said!

Although you left out one thing about he and Brian being invested; - that is - he is invested on riding Brian's jock, but most of the readers could already sense that.

"You are thinking you got a "steal!" (which doesn't mean a whole lot in such a weak draft, anyway) b/c all the not-so-in-the-know mocks had him as high lottery material"

Is Chad Ford (who had him at #10 in his final mock) not-so-in-the-know?

What about DraftExpress? We were literally sitting within 10 feet of the Green Room on draft knight. Are we not in-the-know? (we had him going 8th in our final mock)

What about the execs in the knicks organization (owners of the 8th pick) that said he was one of the 4 people they were really hoping would be available at their pick? (along with Rubio, Curry and Hill, Curry and Rubio obviously having been selected before 8).

What about the NBA? Are they not "in-the-know" for inviting him into the green room?

Actually - I think Chad Ford is used more than a drunk sorority girl at a duke lacrosse team kegger - I also think of all the folk at ESPN he has the least amount of knowledge, but sometimes it's fun to read his stuff.

EVERYONE is used. gm's use media and media use gm's.

Scary what could come of this team in the "two year" time horizon we are throwing out. Assuming we can sign a PG for two years (Miller or otherwise) to handle duties in the short term while Holiday matures, look at the contract situation we will find the 76ers in:

PG - Holiday under rookie deal
SG - Iguodala in his prime years under a good contact
SF - Thad with either the qualifying offer or new deal
PF - Brand
C - Speights under rookie deal

Bench - Lou and Jason Smith (?)

The year we are expecting to hand over the reigns to Holiday is the same year that the 76ers are free of several key bad contracts. Think Kapono, Dalembert, Green. Stefanski should have LOTS to work with to round out this team and mold it into a real contender. I, for one, am very excited for the future of this franchise.

Depending on what happens w/ the cap between now and then, they'd probably have about $10M to spend on a free agent (assuming they don't sign anyone for longer than 2 years w/ the MLE this season, pick up a longer contract, or use the MLE next year).

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 13:24

And you have to think (hope?) that Thaddeus Young will have earned a 'hefty' contract extension right?

He'll get extended, but I'd actually prefer if it happened in the year of his restricted free agency, not before. The same way it happened with Iguodala. Although his caphold number would eat into that $10M anyway. Actually, nevermind, they aren't going to have the cap space to sign someone that offeason. Those expiring deals need to be parlayed into pieces for them to have value.

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 13:35

Ok, I'm getting it confused again.

First round draft picks become restricted free agents after their 4th or 5th season?

5. first two seasons are guaranteed, third and fourth are team options, fifth they get a qualifying offer and they're restricted free agents, if they haven't been extended already.

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 16:26

Thanks for clearing that up

I believe they can extend after the 3rd season, with a late october deadline. Not 100% sure on that, though. I know Sacto extended Kevin Martin early.

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 16:41

Didn't guys like lebron, wade, and carmelo extend early as well?

Love the Holiday pick great value. I was hoping for Jennings or Lawson I would have never thought Holiday would be there. Hopefully we sign Christmas for the summer league he's an NBA players. I was surprised he went undrafted.

I can't believe the Spurs wound up with Blair and McClinton and didn't have to use a first round pick for either. That team always pulls a rabbit out of a hat on draft night.

Chad Ford gave the Sixers an A, by the way.

Chris reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 12:55

Spurs really improved the last few days (between adding Jefferson and their draft).

I really wish the Sixers had made a play for McClinton. Even now, I think he is someone who could help them from day 1 playing a valuable role (a designated shooter from the PG or SG). Maybe the Sixers can sign Salim Stoudamire as a UFA for the same role?

Kareem Rush part 2?

Introductory PC at 10 AM PDT

Available online?

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 12:43

Don't know - i would assume that wip and/or 950 would carry it no?

Stefanskis post draft press conference is on the web right now and so is dileo talking about Jrue - i assume that it'll get up online afterwards if not live

What is the trade rumor on ESPN regarding Brand?

I really like the Holiday pick. I hope we pick up Jarret Jack for 2 years. (I have seen his name tossed around but I am unsure of his availability)

john reply to Mike on Jun 26 at 13:00

It's not really espn, ir's SI, but there's no 'rumor' per se - just that the sixers were 'fielding' offers for Brand - I expect they'd listen on anyone but there were no specifics

I haven't seen any Brand rumors on ESPN. Where did you hear about it?

Jack would be a good fit in the back court. I think Kidd is probably the ideal guy for Holiday to learn from, he's got a connection to both Eds. Not sure if he'd be willing to finish his career as a tutor, but sign him to a two-year deal and he's in the playoffs for both seasons. Definitely worth a shot if you ask me.

Its right on the NBA Front Page. Its an insider link "Brand and TMAC on the Block"

Looks like John answered my question though

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 13:38

The ESPN rumors page reprints the stuff in the Inquirer - there's that - and one of the rotating headlines on ESPN NBA page is 'who's on the block' with graphic that is 1/3 brand, 1/3 rondo and 1/3 t-mac

1 out of 3 is pretty accurate for ESPN

Although I think Holliday was avery good pick up at 17. We still dind;t adress our BIGGEST need in 3 point shooting. They should have bought a secound rounder, and picked someone like K=Jodie Meeks, or Patrick Mills, because if there's something Holliday isn't good at, it's shooting the three ball.

But I guess there's still hope, if we are able to get Gortat, as well as signing someone like Jarret Jack to help them out.

BTW - the 'move up' target was holiday according to stefanski - so they got the guy they 'really' wanted without having to move

If that's really true, I'm feeling 100x better about this franchise than I was heading into the draft.

Sorry if my last paragraph was misleading: I don't expect Gortat to help with shooting the three :)

Stefanski denied that the sixers shopped brand even aa little in his post draft press conference, dismissing any blog mentions of such a thing.

Do people think the sixers didn't TRY to get a second rounder? They've said repeatedly they tried - but someone has to be willing to sell when the players they want are still availbale. It seems like the sixers had second round targets and could get no on to sell them a pick before all those targets were picked. I'm sure they made an effort, but you need a team willing to SELL the pick at the right time

Stef press conference


Vehement that not SHOPPING Brand but yes people have 'called' and inquired - but then again he says they inquire about everyone.

GMs play 'fantasy basketbal' but 'it's real' once you make those trades :)

I don't like john very much.

john reply to Bobby B on Jun 26 at 13:16

I think I might cry

I don't like john very much.

Ed squared on Jun 26 at 13:18

don't like john at all really.

BrandisBack on Jun 26 at 13:20

I actually hate john

bebopdeluxe on Jun 26 at 13:22

Don't worry, all of us heare at depressedfan hate john, its just something we have to deal with

And yet i'm still allowed to post here.

Immediately after the draft, the sixers called Christmas and asked his agent to have him play for them in the Summer league (Dileo).

Let's remember, our team is not set yet for the coming year.

Just saw his intro on CSNphilly, I love his attitude towards pass first and he always guarded the other team's best player. Hopefully we hit the ball out of the park with this pick. Time will tell.

john reply to DeanH on Jun 26 at 13:32

I'm hoping they put it up online before the end of the day - i don't know how fast CSN (and the sixers) can get that stuff up online.

It's still a pretty important off season - i'd say they are about 1/3 of the way done, need a point, need to replace (and get rid of) Sam (and hopefully willie?), and gotta strengthen the bench with defense and or shooters

DeanH reply to john on Jun 26 at 13:39

We agree 100% again. I am really starting to get concerned! :-)

john reply to DeanH on Jun 26 at 13:40

It was only a matter of time before you starting thinking properly ;)

FordisTurd on Jun 26 at 13:35

CRAP, how many people said they didn't like John in the last ten minutes! HAHAHAHAHA! John i guess is not a very popular figure around here.

5 people said they dodn't like john in the last 5 minutes.

John's a good poster. He usually has an interesting take. I don't always agree with him and he probably berates people too much.

john reply to Mike on Jun 26 at 13:40

I probably do - and if Brian wishes me to tone it down I will. It seems I acquired a stalker last night during the live draft chat and it fills me with sorrows

Bobby B reply to john on Jun 26 at 15:11

Well you said you think you might cry. ~Kleenex?

Ed Stefanski on Jun 26 at 13:46

Hey guys it's Ed Stefanski here, if you guys have ny questions regaring the draft or upcoming offseason I will be happy to answer them.

So is Holiday the "chip on my shoulder for being the last guy left in the green room" type of guy? Think he picks #17 as a reminder?

john reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 14:04

Not sure, but hopefully if he is he isn't the gilbert arenas type who holds the grudge forever even after getting a wopping contract after missing a mostly entire season and then missing most of the next one :)

Saw his post draft interview last night - seemed fine with going 17

Max reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 14:30

Boy I hope he carries a chip on his shoulder. His motivation might come from the fact there is already talk of him riding the pine from sixers management. If he's anything like Thad, he'll work his tail off to prove them wrong too.

john reply to Max on Jun 26 at 14:33

I don't think the talk is of him riding the pine- that seems to verly state it - it just seems to be that 'he's not going to start right away' - and that's a pretty solid assertion since he spent one year at UCLA out of position not in a princeton offense.

He doesn't need a chip on his shoulder to be a driven determined guy and chips can get in the way in my opinion. Whether or not he has a chip I just hope he's dedicated to learning the system and working on his weaknesses.

One of the things I miss most about having Kyle Korver on the team was his dedication and work ethic in the off season. I don't know that the sixers have that example any more

Thad. He did everything and anything he could think of last season to improve. Iguodala as well. I remember hearing stories about how hard he worked on his foul shot 3 summers ago, came back as an 82% FT shooter (I kinda wish he'd do that again).

Both of those guys are extremely hard workers.

Hey, anyone looking for a tough, gritty player...such as Tyler Hansbrough? We have an extra one here in Indiana.

john reply to The GM on Jun 26 at 15:21

Sure, you want sam dalembert?

On second thought, I'll keep him.

john reply to The GM on Jun 26 at 16:02

At least you won't have to see him play in person :)

DiLeo mentioned Holiday's H.S. stats, so I looked them up. Before the doubters flip out, I realize this has no bearing on anything, still interesting to look at.

Check out this game. 33 points, 25 rebounds, 11 assists, 5 blocks and 5 steals.

Overall, he averaged 25.3 points (57% from the floor, 40% from three, 86% from the line), 6.8 assists, 12.0 rebounds, 4.6 steals, 2.4 blocks per game.

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Jun 26 at 16:56

Those are interesting numbers. So are the turnovers. FWIW, I would've given a lot to have a game like that in high school, no matter the competition.


Misanelli interviews Stefanski - and at some opint i'm sure misanelli will bad mouth Andre Iguodala and his contract

Sixers were higher on Teague than Maynor...interesting.

And Stefanski admits that Lawson is more ready now - but thinks Holiday will be better

Marc Stein seems to think that the Magic trade for Vince makes it easier for them to try and retain gortat?

I've always believed Turkoglu is supremely underrated in terms of his importance to the Magic, but Carter's arrival -- as so neatly laid out by Professor John Hollinger -- gives them an accomplished driver and defender whose homecoming to central Florida will enable Stan Van Gundy to flank Dwight Howard with three All-Stars (Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson and Carter) and defensive specialist Mickael Pietrus. Orlando can focus its free-agent business on hanging onto Marcin Gortat, which also is bound to be a bidding war but on a more palatable scale.

Chad Ford writes about the 2010 draft http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Preview-090626

Since when has VC been an accomplished defender? I've always heard him described a matador defender (wave your hands when your man blows past). Sure, he has the athletic ability but he hasn't seemed to take any interest in defending unless it was his first years in the league. I've also seen loose balls at his feet and he won't even dive for it.

john reply to Chris on Jun 26 at 18:17

It's Marc Stein - the best Cal Stat Fullerton has to offer :)

It seems to me that everyone talked about all those great mismatches the magic had against other east teams with hedo at the three and rashard at the four - but with vince and pietrus many of those mismatches are gone...

Plus I think they stripped their bench and I think they'll lose out on Gortat as well - so who becomes their back up to Howard?

Maybe 'Superman' has to pull a Wilt Chamberlain and average 48.3 minutes per game. ;-)

I like the kid. Like what everyone had to say about defense first. Also like what he had to say about being his team's defensive stopper, guarding the other team's best player on a nightly basis. He could really work his way into the rotation if he can transfer that part of his game to the pros.

Christmas signed to play for the summer league team. I'm really rooting for him to make the team the kid can play.

Good for him. I'd say he has a legit shot at making the team. Cost-effective solution and they only have 10 guys under contract right now. I assume they'll have at least 13 when the season starts, probably 14.

bebopdeluxe on Jun 27 at 20:33

1) That was not me earlier in this thread;

2) Many thanks to the Pacers for taking Hansborough;

3) WOW!

4) Option #1 for me is a 3-year deal with Bibby for the MLE - he knows this offense cold (and can certainly help Holiday learn it), and even if he is down to 18-20 mpg by year 3 of his deal, it will still be nice to have a guy on the team who can run the offense:

5) If Bibby won't accept the MLE, thne I am probably open to the S&T with Portland for Blake and whoever (perhaps even a trade exemption)...I think that Holiday will be ready to be a 25 mpg PG by the 2010-11 season...by then, Iguodala should be comfortable at the 2 and can certainly help Holiday run the offense;

6) I have no problem with the fact that they didn't get a 2nd round pick...had they gotten one it would have been fine, but here are the guys that I see in the backcourt next season:

Green (and he will be getting minutes, Virginia)

That is SIX guys for TWO slots...and all of those guys are capable of getting at least 12-15 minutes a game. Where was Meeks going to play? Rather than spend $3 million for the pick to get Meeks...

7) Carney with the biannual exemption.

3 seems too long for me. I'd feel much, much better w/ a two-year deal for Kidd. The Blake trade doesn't excite me, but they could do worse. He expires after this season.

bebopdeluxe on Jun 27 at 21:57


Don't think Bibby will take 2 years of MLE...would love it if he did, but I doubt it. He probably wants more than the MLE...and if you were Portland would you rather give Miller $25-27 million or Bibby the MLE for 3 years?

If we could get Kidd for 2 years, I'd be down with that...but the value of Bibby is he KNOWS this offense, and just as Miller helped the young guys develop their game, Bibby could help the young guys learn this offense.

But if we could sign either of those guys for 2 years, that would be great.

Doesn't Kidd know this offense also, from his days in NJ? Honestly, both are long shots and I'd take either at the MLE (or S&T in Kidd's case, DAL needs a point if Kidd walks). I think I'd actually prefer Kidd to Bibby, though.

If you got either of them, though, they could slide to the two if you wanted to get Jrue some time at the point. Can't really do that w/ Miller, unless you're willing to have the lane clogged to the extreme.

John reply to Brian on Jun 27 at 22:25

If bibby is taking the MLE i think he'll go to a more 'title ready' team - but supposedly Dallas is very dedicated to keeping him this off season

Did you mean Kidd or Atlanta?

bebopdeluxe on Jun 27 at 23:22

Fair point about Kidd and NJ...I guess that I view Sacto's version as the best (unfortunately they had to deal with the Lakers and Spurs all those years). Both teams had a great outside shooter or two, and we need a Peja or KVH for this offense to really work. I think that Bibby is the better shooter, but Kidd is the better defender - and he'll probably be a good mentor for Holiday.

I'll take either one if they would play for us for the MLE...and I have no problem giving either of them 3 years.

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