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Daryl Morey Stole My Idea

I like Gortat's game but if we sign him it means having Holiday and Lou as the only possible points (unless the team want to try Iggy at the point. I don't see Lou as a point at all, especially after what I saw last season.

I'm fine with getting Gortat then packaging Miller for some point guard (Blake will be fine I guess). But it's a bit of a waste having both Gortat and Daly at the center position and then having Blake/Holiday as our point guard options. That would only get us in the position that Portland are in right now.

I'm not sure you going to do better than that at PG even if they sign Gortat. There's a good chance they get a vet. min. guy to be a third in a three-way rotation at the point.

As for Gortat and Sammy, they seem to be dead set on moving Sammy, even if he's here, I think they want to marginalize him. That makes getting a center who can board and protect the rim very, very high on my to do list. If all goes well, they've got their PG of the future, thinking long-term, the big hole is at C and I think the Hammer would fill that perfectly.

Chris reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 1:17

I agree 100%.

If we are dead set on moving Sammy we must have a decent center. There are a ton of cheap PGs out there (not optimal) but I don't think it is a big deal as we should be looking to make sure Holiday can get some minutes anyway.

Chris reply to Chris on Jul 1 at 1:28

Two things I forgot to bring up:

1. With the Yao situation, this shouldn't be a surprise Houston desperately wants him. Reading some of the Yao stories on the news channels, it appears there is a decent chance he's done.

2. What would happen if two GMs showed up on someone's doorstep at 12:01? Could you say awkward? I bet this happens when LeBron and Wade are FAs.

John reply to Chris on Jul 1 at 9:30

I bet Lebron and Wades agents tell them not to show up thta early :)

Ideal scenario: we sign Gortat, get some value for Miller and trade Dalembert and get quite a good point guard in return.

Of the point guards we could get, I'm thinking Sessions.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 8:09

With Powe being released by Boston and N.Orleans getting Collison and Thornton on draft night a nice backup plan could be Powe and J.Pargo, 2 guys with playoff experience.Split the m.l.e.? Guys, Pachulia is 25 years old, far better offensively than Gortat and has actually proven he can produce when given more minutes, could he be an option for a reasonable price?

Charles Shackleford's Top Hat on Jul 1 at 9:40


Is there any chance that Sam can be rehabilitated by Eddie Jordan and evolve into a 9, 12 and 2 in 28 minute center?

Or will this offense make him look even more like a soccer player?


How bad is ZaZa defensively?

zig reply to John on Jul 1 at 10:19

Here is what draftexpress says about his defense:

Limited physically, making it hard for him to make an impact on the defensive end. Susceptible to quicker post players. Lack of athleticism allows players to take advantage of him around the rim. Not incredibly big either for the center position. Does a decent job of denying entry passes. Isn’t a defensive stopper by any stretch of the imagination. Blocks an occasional shot, but isn’t explosive enough to get to many shots in the paint. Bodies his man and forces him into taking bad shots. Is a formidable matchup due to his toughness, but not one that will shut down scorers with go-to-moves. Tends to just box his man out and let his teammates grab rebounds.

We might as well just put in Speights if we're considering Zaza imo.

john reply to zig on Jul 1 at 10:27

Is that from when he was drafted or slightly more recent?

zig reply to john on Jul 1 at 10:30

It is from May 2008.


Lack of shot blocking is disconcerting, but that sounds better defensively than speights showed last year

zig reply to john on Jul 1 at 10:45

yeah, but if his skills are on the offensive side of the ball, wouldn't you rather rely on speights to develop than have to use some of the limited salary space we have this summer? i have not seen many hawks games, but I am not high on a guy who can't really protect the rim. btw, besides offensive competence, both guys have skills that the other does not. Speights averaged 0.7 blocks per game (1.8 per 40) and Zaza averaged 0.4 (0.7 per 40). Obviously Zaza is a better rebounder, but Spieghts is still young

john reply to zig on Jul 1 at 10:50

I'd rather have a 'contingency plan' in place on the off chance that Speights doesn't, you know, learn to play defense in this off season (a distinct possibility if the pre draft worries about him pan out) and then have to learn an entire new NBA offense.

The reason I want a big man starting that isn't sam isn't about wins and losses, Sam Dalembert will slow the integration of Eddie Jordans offense for the rest of the roster (that matters) since it's almost guaranteed he'll suck at it worse than any other offnese - as this offense requires quick crisp passing and fast basketball thought

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 10:32

John, defense description from what I!ve seen,physical in the post, not a shot blocker and will give the hard foul.Offensively he has a nice game and is the same age as Gortat,that surprised me.

The lack of shot blocking is concerning but possibly a 'second tier' option, he definitely has more offensive knowledge and game than Sam and is a strong rebounder (so the guy says)

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 10:56

Another young big is Swift, a former #12 pick that has had injury issues but is a good rebounder/shot blocker.If the salary is low enough a guy like this may be worth a shot.If we do the Portland sign-n-trade and use Outlaw to get a big [Gooden,Pachulia] or a s.g.[Azuibuke,C.J.Miles] it would help.Gooden[4mill. ?] as a high post 24 min. center may be an option.He rebounds, passes well and next to Brand may work.

Does he have any offensive game? He's on of numerous bust big men drafted by Seattle right? IS he the pasty kid with all the tattoos?

Defense is important, but when getting a big man, if he's not better offensively than Sam Dalembert it makes no sense...

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 11:01

John, he is one ugly guy.As far as offense, not sure but his defense could compliment Jason and Marreese.

Then not a step up from Sam then - so why bother?

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 11:10

John, nobody we can get is a step up from Sam, even Gortat, for a year or so.I thought adding a cheaper defensive presence to pair with Jason and Marreese was the thought process,assuming Sam is moved or doesn!t by in to our new coach.

I disagree that 'no one' is a step up from Sam, you can't just look at the defensive end.

If someone is '100%' better than sam offensively (and that's many of the big men available, easily) and 25% worse than sam defensively - to me that's still a net gain.

It's a balance how much offense is added versus defense taken away, your description of Swift is slightly less defense with no more offense, THAT is not a step up.

Gortat, Zaza, are far and away better offensively than Sam, and the defensive step down might not be as much as the offensive step up.

Sam has to go, to me, mostly because he hinders any solid championship contending time table because he will hinder the roper and complete integration of the jordan offense, which will lead to jordan being fired in two years and a whole new coach and starting over again

I do not agree that Zaza ang Gortat are far and away better offensive players than Sam.

They have better attitudes, play more within themselves and will be paid less.

But none of the three have any semblance of a developed post game, and to expect Zaza or Gortat to become better offensive players because they are 25 is sort of playing the Sam game.

Sam is the best finisher in close (put backs, ally-oops.) Gortat the most efficient (unlikely to to get a T.O., but one asst per 58 min played.) Zaza gets o-boards and can pass but not score.

It would be get to get out from under Sam's contract and send his whiny, passive-aggressive act somewhere else. But Sam will expire in 2 years, opening up some cap space along with Kapono and Green. Also, even the most disappointing players suddenly overachieve in their contract year.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 11:44

John,I don!t know what Gortat is offensively, Sam has a better jumper and is probably a better offensive rebounder.But salary and knuckleheadesness probably makes up the differense.

Ok - Sam's jumper is horrible, he likes to take it, but it's bad.

Let's stick to the fundamentals and things that Jordan needs...a low post big man with good court vision who can make the open LOOK or find the open mind on the cut.

Can Sam do those?

Can Gortat? Maybe. But he gets an assist once every 28 minutes. A lot of that has to do with his role... but you can't say you know he is a good passer.

Sorry, meant 1 assist every 58 minutes.

john reply to tk76 on Jul 1 at 12:05

Did I say gortat was a good passer?

Nope, I didn't, I said Sam was a terrible passer and has horrible basketball fundamentals and IQ...he's going to destroy the Jordan offense if he's a starter, and that hurts the entire franchises progression

Sam's jumper was actually more effective than Speights' last year, .388 eFG for Sam, .356 for Speights.

Go figure.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 11:48

Gortat hasn!t shown that but Zaza has.If it comes down to the unknown [Gortat at 5.5. mill.] or the known [Zaza at 4 mill.] I think it is close.

Grigsby reply to deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 12:21

Personally, I'd prefer Gortat... but if Houston snaps him up, I'd happily take Pachulia for 4 mil. If we're unable to trade Sam, we'll have a nice one-two punch at center... and whoever works harder and learns the new system faster gets to start.

Zaza really does nothing at all for me. I'm sure he's a hustler and all that, but a center who shoots .457 from the floor is not an offensive weapon, you just can't make the case he's a better offensive player than Sam.

He may not be as dumb as Sam, and he may appear tougher than Sam, but personally, I don't go for centers who can't block shots. Eventually, guys realize they don't challenge and just shoot over them. It happened all the time when Evans was playing.

As for Dalembert in the P.O., Jordan can figure out how to run it around him. That's not really my concern. If he can set screens and catch lobs, he'd be fine. The problem is that he's going to want, if not demand, to do more. Be a bigger part of it. That's not going to work, and he'll probably start whining.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 12:30

From what I saw of the video online from NBA TV with Eddie Jordan and the princeton offense...your center needs to have good court vision and be able to make good passes, you can't run the offense with 4 guys who know what their doing and one guy who most likely won't know what to do with the ball once he gets it, it just won't work.

And if you have to run it 'around' sam - then again, you're hindering the development of the team once they finally find a big man who knows what the frack he's doing in my opinion

The offense seemed to work pretty efficiently in Washington with Brendan Haywood and his .5 A/TO ratio in the center.

Dude probably has a higher basketball IQ than Sam (which isn't tough)

And Sam WISHES he had a .5 A:TO ratio (career is .26)

Hell Haywood would be an offensive step up from Sam.

Haywood may be a better offensive player than Sam, the point is, the offense was run around him. Very low usage %, about the same Sam had this season. Low assist numbers, middling turnover numbers.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 12:57

Guys, is the 7 day waiting period for rest. f. agents that much of a deterent; I can!t see Villanueva over Milsap or Lee for Detroit.

If you're looking to make two moves in free agency, it can be a problem, that money is frozen for a week, which means you have to have two plans, one if not matched, one if not.

If rumors are to believed, it's not just the 7 day waiting period, Dumars likes the inside out game of Villanueva, Lee and Milsap are more 'banger' PFs.

And in my mind, David Lee is a bench player, pure and simple.

Sammy + to Houston for McGrady rumor. I'll break it down above.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:06

Ah, now see, that's not a rumor, not to me, that's the same thing as you or I going to the ESPN trade machine and making something up that works under the cap, less so that this guy doesn't even make the numbers work.

Calling this a rumor is how 'rumors' that aren't get started, this guy was too lazy to do some real work so did the 'ill create a trade scenario' article...no indication it's been discussed, no indication that the rockets are interested, just some writer making crap up. Calling it a rumor is an insult to rumors.

L Will can't be a deal breaker in a rumor that doesn't exist can he?

deepsixersuede reply to john on Jul 1 at 13:16

John, as far as Houston, who knows what is going through their mind,Artest may forget about them also.Any deal for Mc Grady!s expiring better be pretty dam good.

I don't know what's going through Houstons mind at all, except that Daryl Morey seems smart enough to get some quality for a 22 million dollar expiring contract, and not Sam Dalembert

Then again, maybe his army of analysts told him that Dalembert is a monster on the boards and one of the best shot blockers in the league. Sam looks a lot better on paper than most people realize.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:34

I doubt that Morey (or any 'new school' gm in any sport) rely SOLELY on paper - though the 'stat haters' want to keep propagating such nonsense as those folks not watching the games for their own purposes - which confuses me.

I would expect that every NBA team knows as much about Sams game as we do and his attitude issues...and depending on what numbers you use...Sam might come off as extremely 'neutral' overall


Depends on what areas of the game you value. A lot of people wouldn't have touched Artest w/ a ten foot pole because of his attitude and legal problems. Dalembert isn't the player Artest is, but he also isn't nearly the headcase Artest is either.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:39

That was a risk that worked out - may have been counting on the 'contract year' motivation to keep him under control?

Or maybe kept him on his meds?

May be willing to take another risk. Especially if they can't get Gortat. They could pencil Sammy in for 35 minutes/night, which would keep him happy. Of course he'd probably never last that long w/out fouling out.

Maybe being on his contract year had something to do with it. Even someone as insane as him can see how toning it down for a year can get him millions.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 14:05

If your the Lakers, does Artest work? It sure would help take the complacency of defending your title away, sorta like when Rodman went to the bulls.

Sign Artest, lose Ariza or Odom? I'd think that would be the end result.

I'll run down the rumors when I see them, not offering judgments on their validity for the time being.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:30

I'm just saying - that raising this thing to the level of rumor isn't worth it - it's like when you get 'irritated' with sixerfan from realgm. This isn't a rumor, this is the equivalent of Sam Smith spitballing an idea against the wall for the bulls - would you call that a rumor? It's the equivalent of your or me playing with the ESPN trade machine...that's not a rumor, that's just lazy journalism :)

Actually I misread the story the first time, it says an NBA source said the Sixers may look into such a deal, not that it was offered or even discussed. Seems pretty thin on closer inspection.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:38

That's what I'm saying :)

This has as much 'credibility' as a rumor as an SF post and we know how you feel about those.

Speaking of which - he's awfully quiet - or is TK just not telling us what he says :)

I checked earlier and he was talking about how Chicago had a week to match an offer Detroit made to Ben Gordon. Would have been solid analysis last year, when Gordon was a restricted free agent.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:44

Well, hey, that's not sixer related, that's just lazy :)

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:32

If your D.Lee, do you take 4 years at 8 mill. and stay in N.Y. or more money and go to Memphis?[rumored]

Is the NY deal $8M for 4 years, or $8M/year for 4 years?

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:49

Rumor is that it's 32 million over 4 years...

If I'm David lee, I take the most money...he'll be stealing it somewhere

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:51

32 mill. for 4 years.I think it is a save face move on the Knicks part, similar to Memphis going after J.Smith.

If I'm Lee, I take more money elsewhere. As a Sixers' fan, though, I hope Lee calls their bluff and eats up $8M of the Knicks' cap space next Summer.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 13:03

Brian, L.Will. better not be the deal breaker there, I!ll dislike him even more.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 13:09

Villanueva seems like a Von Hayes type, big numbers in a contract year.Haven!t heard Gortat to Det. rumors lately, I guess Kwame is the man .

Anonymous on Jul 1 at 13:43

3 moves the sixers make to create a competitive well built team.

first move. sign and trade miller to portland for steve blake and travis outlaw. its not flashy but it gets you a point guard who can mentor jrue and ease him along and each player has a 4-5 mill expiring contract. so no real risk.

second move. you call phoenix who now needs a center and is looking to rebuild a little. you take a bad jason richardson contract (exactly the type of sg we need, look at his numbers) and their backup center robin lopez. In return you give them a starting center in sam dalembert who is perfect for their system, and maurece speights who was made to play for that system, being as he is a younger amare stadamire. Which is perfect because they are looking to trade amare, and speights would replace him. This helps phoenix get a little younger, and you can save them about 4 million over the next two years, which gets them under the all important luxury tax threshold. If you need to, throw in a first rounder.

third move. you call up the clippers who are very desperately trying to move one of their big men to create room for blake griffin. Since you now have outlaws 5 million expiring contract, you offer outlaw, green, and robin lopez for kamen. This gives the clippers a decent backup swing man who has a good deal (everyone loves expiring contracts) a back up shooting guard in greene (pretty much a throw in) and a young back up center who doesn't need a lot of minutes and won't hinder griffin. Also the clippers get to get rid of kaman and his not so favorable contract which they are desperately trying to do so they can play griffin. The clippers incoming salaries are also smaller so they're getting more flexibility and saving money. the sixers get a starting center. win win.

so those are three moves, that can easily be done, the salaries all match up for each trade. And they all make sense for each team. After completing these three deals this is what the sixers line up looks like.

pg: blake/holliday
sg: richardson/williams
sf: iguadola/kapono
pf: brand/young
c: kaman/smith

You can fill up the rest of the roster with cheap veterans and young players like we did last year. That line up is deep with shooting, shot blocking, rebounding, slashers, and fairly good defensive players. They can run half court with two low post scorers and a few shooters, they can go small with young at the 4 and brand at the 5 and run up tempo. And after two years the only contracts on the books are iggy, brand, and kaman so youre not stuck forever.
So if you can pull off those three logical trades, one of them, the miller trade, almost done already, this team instantly because pretty good. sorry for all the player name misspelling. Let me know what you guys think.

Joking aside, that's a pretty solid lineup if Kaman is healthy. Kaman's deal is long, so if there are any chronic injury concerns you'd have to balk.

My main concern is pushing Thad to the bench and going further down the road w/out giving Iguodala a fair shot at SG. Right now, I think Iguodala and Thad can coexist, but if they really can't, we need to know before Thad's rookie deal runs out and we sign him to an extension.

Solid thought behind this one, though. Good work.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:59

I have a few issues with Kaman, not just his injury issue, which is obviously a big deal.

Say one thing for Sam, he's been realtively healthy ever since that knee healed, which seems rare for big men these days...

It's an interesting plan, I just don't think it's as productive. And it again seems to go on the premise that Iguodala isn't a shooting guard...which isn't a premise I buy.

We can resign Miller and have: Miller, Brand and Kaman. Clippers V2.0

Seriously though, your proposals have so many steps that it becomes pure fantasy trades. Overall it creates a solid, if niot contending roster... but the odds of all of those moves happening are nil.

Oh right, I forgot, the sixers don't have a shooting guard.


zig reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:55


You think if the sixers scoop up Gortat before everybody, that the rockets would have to do the dalembert trade?

john reply to zig on Jul 1 at 14:01

I don't think anyone is going to scoop up Gortat, that many teams, his agent is going to stall for the most money and figure out a sign and trade if he can to get even more money.

And personally, Morey doesn't strike me as the desperate over spending guy who misses out on one and then just goes nuts over someone else, so in my opinion, Houston would not be motivated to make the imaginary Dalembert trade.

Utah has said they will look to trade Boozer now. What about a possible lineup of EB/CB/Thad/Iggy/Lou or Jrue?

john reply to The GM on Jul 1 at 14:13

Personally, I really really loathe any line up that demands Elton Brand play center for an extended period of time.

Boozer has been as healthy as Farrah Fawcett recently - not to mention - he's got the magic '2010 expiry' next to him - Utah will want more than Sam :)

Oh yeah - don't start lou williams - makes me sad

Well it would be a unique line-up. Every player between 6'4 and 6'8.

Marcin Gortat’s agent is telling teams he already has a full midlevel offer. League executives think it is likely from the Houston Rockets, who met with Gortat after midnight on Wednesday.

From Yahoo.

Why would signing Hedo bother him? I'd think Hedo's minutes would come from Batum and Outlaw's share, right?

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 16:57

I really doubt that we could obtain Gortat or for that matter any of the top-level free agents. Gortat will get a fat contract from someone to be a starting center in this league. The sixers cant offer that type of money and he is already on many teams radar. Players will take less money for 3 reasons.
1)A huge market(NY,LA)
2)A team on the verge of winning a championship
3)A desireable location(phoenix,Miami)

Philly has none of those things going for it so there only chance is to make some trades and release some guys to make cap room and that doesnt seem likely.

john reply to gdog on Jul 1 at 16:49

Very few teams out there can offer Gortat MORE than the sixers without working a sign and trade.

I've seen no mention of any of them (Memphis, OKC, Detroit) in the Gortat hunt. All the other teams have the MLE just like the sixers.

I still say you lean on the Polish community angle. That's your selling point :)

Insidehoops (via Twitter) - says Waojnarowski has a source saying the pistons and Gordon have agreed to a deal - first one of day?

john reply to john on Jul 1 at 19:16

5 years 55 million

that sounds a lot like what he would have gotten last year?

If memory serves, I think that was the offer the Bulls made, but Gordon thought he was worth Deng/Iguodala type money.

john reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 19:20

Now he's detroits problem

Also probably means Kirk Hinrich not moving? Good for sixers in the 'portland still neds a 'vet' point and can't get kirk hinrich - but also has irrational interest in turkoglu so sign & trade for miller now slightly more likely' department?

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 19:28

Portland has to renounce its rights to Freeland and Kopponen to get Turkaglu and Toronto has probably backed out,[real g.m.].Freeland is a young big guy, maybe worth a look.

How many NBA games has Freeland played in? Did Portland renounce their rights or do they have to to get Turkoglu - it can wait

Twitter announcement from same gordon source - Villanuev to pistons as well

deepsixersuede reply to John on Jul 1 at 19:58

Gortat is visiting the whole Texas triangle.John, Portland is loaded with young assets, maybe Blake and other pieces would be a better option for us, that!s all I am saying.Hinrich, hopefully isn!t an option anymore.

deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 20:06

Is Detroit out of money?

No news yet on the numbers of Villanueva's contract that I saw - but I'd say they're out of 'major player' money

Yep, that has to be the biggest waist of cap space I've ever seen. Gordon and Charlie V.

Charlie V.

That team is barely, BARELY, a playoff team. They're also probably going to allow about 105 ppg. Just horrible. They had to renounce Sheed too, so they can't bring him back now, if these rumors are true. Dumars is officially on BK's level.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 20:25

I don't think they really wanted to bring Rasheed back either.

Yeah, I was just wondering if they seriously thought that was a competitive front court. Sheed came to mind, but he isn't an option.

gdog reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 20:49

I havent watched Villanueva much but Gordon is an Andrew Toney like killer(see playoffs...last year). I dont see how you could possibly call that a waste of cap space. If the Sixers signed Ben Gordon for 55 million you would have 5 straight days of Ben Gordon topics. Cmon ...
And to compare Dumars to BK on any level is kind of silly dont you think ?

John reply to gdog on Jul 1 at 20:52

Dumars has made many mis steps in the past couple years and has taken a contending team down to mediocrity and hasn't made them much better.

Ben Gordon is short for his position, Ben Gordon scores, that's all Ben Gordon does, his a defensive liability on a team that already has a shooting guard making some good money who had issues last year - you think rips happy with Ben Gordon coming to town? I doubt it.

Gordon, Stuckey, Rip, ALL need the ball in their hands to excel - that's a smart way to build a team in my opinion

That team, as currently constructed, couldn't stop five of us defensively. Gordon didn't fill a need. Villaneuva is a complete joke, gunner who can't spell defense.

This was a case of spending money because you had it, and they spent it on the wrong guys IMO. Especially Villaneuva.

I'm pretty much expecting a Lee Nailon or Monty Williams type addition this summer.

Expect to hear a lot of Ed saying how the team will be adding "a Elton Brand" and Jason Smith and Kapopno this summer.

I'm really expecting Miller to just walk or maybe resign if the market completely dries up.

Too early to get down like that. We knew Gordon wasn't signing here, we didn't want Charlie V., we didn't want Zach Randolph. No one the Sixers were even remotely targeting has gone elsewhere (or anyone we wanted them to target).

LA Times reports the Clippers will trade Zach Randolph to Memphis Grizzlies for Quentin Richardson

Another Twitter

As for the pistons, supposedly Dumars really likes the 'inside/outside' game of Villanueva - but who knows - who the hell is their coach?

Hmmn, so Dumars was the worst GM in the league for what, an hour? Kudos, Memphis, on the worst use of cap space in the history of the NBA.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 20:54

Hey Brian - want to hear a 'sixerfan' rumor involving the sixers, andre miller and richard hamilton :)

I saw him say they were trying to get Rip. Which is a terrible idea IMO.

I'm guessing that's a list that Sam (or any Sixer) are left off of.

John reply to tk76 on Jul 1 at 20:50

Since it's free agents - yeah :)

Carney made the list, sessions made the list, and von wafer made the list propelled by his per 40 minutes

I'm not sold on Carney.

Hollinger's list is something to pay attention to, especially where teams like Houston, Dallas and Denver are concerned.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 21:50

I was paying attention until I saw the names and then really only saw one guard :) And I'm not sure Wafer is a point :)

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 21:05

Dumars must have another move; does Prince or Hamilton get him a big ?


Dalembert, possibly Kaman. I don't see New Orleans taking Rip's contract back for Chandler, no way.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 21:49

Kaman cost goes up because they shed Randolph and have less of a 'log jam'?

The all out of position Sixers lineup... it could happen:

PG: Lou "the pure point" Williams
SG: Andre "I put the shot in SG" Iguodala
SF: Jason "lockdown wing defender" Kapono
Thad "to busy boxing out to get any rebounds" Young
Elton "long arms but no neck..,. or shoulder or Achilles" Brand

Instant offense from:
Willie "I'm open when I catch the ball" Green
Royal "the Microwave" Ivey
Interior defense from:
Jason "Brands body in reverse" Smith
Mo "knows D" Speights

Relax, we're only 21 hours into the negotiation period.

Its a joke- was looking for comic relief, not to come off as depressed.

I'm upbeat about the team's future... but I have zero expectations for the FA period (and the 1st half of next year if they try and pick up the Princeton Offense sans PG.

I'm a fan of the 19-25 year old talent on this team. Not sure if Brand will end up fitting by the time they hit their stride, but the team is headed in a positive direction. Maybe more so than when they committed 185M to Brand, Iguodala and Lou and expected to be a top 4 team in the East. Even with a healthy Brand the rest of the roster was not ready.

This year I think they might exceded my expectations... and I'm looking forward to good things in 2-3 years when Sam, Green and Kapono come off the books. I'm not really in a rush to add great pieces this summer, although Gortat would have been a nice addition.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much how I feel. Put it this way, even without a single addition made, I think they're better than the Pistons after they spent $80M today, and they should only get better.

If you can't get Gortat, which it seems like you won't, then just don't sign anyone to a contract of more than 2 years and everything's fine.

Joe reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 21:28

Didn't they spend 90M? 35 and 55?

Even better :)

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 21:12

Will Orlando possibly go over the cap by using Gortat in a sign-trade if a Hamilton or Prince was the prize?

I suppose they could use Prince, don't see why they'd want Rip. The salaries would have to match up, though, which means another piece going from ORL to DET and they're pretty thin as it is.

Joe reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 21:54

You can never use enough SGs who can "put the ball in the net" Brian.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 21:15

I meant over the tax.

deepsixersuede on Jul 1 at 21:22

Randolph traded again, there must be hope for Sammy.

Dumars is a moron. Finally I know 100% for sure.

deepsixersuede reply to Joe on Jul 1 at 21:31

Joe, if he is done I believe you ,but its a long summer..

Its hard to make a seamless transition after all of those years in the EC finals. I agree he has been making some questionable moves, but I don't see how he could have kept winning with their aging nucleus either.

John reply to tk76 on Jul 1 at 21:40

The Billups trade was a classic panic move and the only 'redeeming' thing about it was the cap space it created.

Which he just spent on Ben Gordon and Villanueva for 5 years?

Yeah - ok - I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the deal because it was for the off season...but now...not so much

See, I don't get why they panicked, weren't they 4-0 when they traded Billups?

I don't think anyone is ripping Dumars for clearing the cap space. I think he's a joke because he used all of it on two gunners who can't defend.

Joe reply to tk76 on Jul 1 at 21:51

I'm with John and Brian

I'll add the Rip extension in there. What was that about if he was trying to clear space and go young? LOL.

Two words: Scoring bias. Rip was their highest paid player when they were winning. Hilsrious if you ask me when they employed a top 5 PG, C, and possibly a top 5 PF. Rip wasn't a top 10 SG. It is what it is.

Iverson? Scoring bias. Turning down Rondo? Scoring bias. Gordon and Charlie? Say it with me...

John reply to Joe on Jul 1 at 21:53

DIdn't the Rip Extension come before the Billups trade?

I know a lot of people who questioned the Rip extension too.

Joe reply to John on Jul 1 at 21:57

They traded Billups 5 games into the season or something? Right. They extended Rip that offseason. Is it a big deal that Rip happened first? If he was "going young" he wouldn't have extended Rip and he would have dealt Billups IMO.

Maybe he can get decent value for Rip. I expect something could come up. He is a good scorer after all.

I think many people here, including myself, had a good laugh over the Rip extension.

John reply to Joe on Jul 1 at 21:58

I don't think he thought he was going young, I think they panicked by moving Billups after 5 games under a new coach (who they have since fired) still learning the ropes.

I think the Pistons may have gotten it together, even under Curry if they hadn't panicked.

Ok, Jeff Foster, just can't block shots, which is sad.

Yep. Pretty much the opposite principle of all their teams that went to the conf. finals.

Right now, they have 4 perimeter players (yes I consider Charlie V a perimeter player) who shot 44.8% on 64.1 FGA/36 min last season. That's just awesome.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:04

Who do you get to coach this team? Nelson, O'brien, D'antoni all have jobs :)

D'Antoni would've been perfect :)

I don't know, if I'm Doug Collins you couldn't pay me enough to coach this group. Is Avery Johnson dumb?

How about Mark Jackson? He's itching to coach a team and he seems like the kind of guy who'd be excited by all the stars on the roster.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:09

I would love it if Jackson got this job, all that on air campaigning, after a year or two and he gets fired he'd probably be unable to get another job for a long long time, unless he was willing to take the 'real' route of being an assistant first.

Good post.

From an NBA.com story:

"Ben agreed to come here knowing he would come off the bench," the source said. "That makes it completely different than Iverson coming here ... Gordon is choosing to come here and play the super sub role."

If true, sounds to me like they aren't moving Rip. Also sounds like they're paying $23M for their SG rotation.

Joe reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:19

They may be able to get away with a Gordon, Rip, Prince backcourt for 10 minutes a game or so. Prince is pretty versatile.

Gordon at the point or Prince?

Joe reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:46

Prince would run the point for that time. I'm guessing Prince will play some 4 and some 1 this year.

Here's a funny note on the Zach Randolph trade:

The Griz will pay Randolph $33.3M over the next two years. Pau Gasol has $34.3M remaining on the contract Memphis desperately needed to get out from under two years ago.

What did Memphis do with the cap space they gained from trading Pau away for pennies on the dollar? Well, they helped the Hawks out by signing Josh Smith to a below-market offer sheet that was sure to be matched last Summer, then they traded for Randolph this Summer. That, my friends, is a stellar front office.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:54

And yet Sam can't go nowhere :)

Sekou Smith Twitter (writes for AJC)

Sources indicate Hawks are inching closer to common ground w/Mike Bibby's camp on a new deal. Nothing concrete as of yet, though

Hmmn...I guess Crawford was insurance for when Joe Johnson walks next Summer?

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:57

Who knows - that deal still don't make no sense to me...I had hopped when miller walked bibby would have been a cheaper alternative, i guess not.

I hope this doesn't put Miller in a 'better position' with the sixers negotiating, i have a sinking feeling

I don't care about the dollars in those negotiations, all I care about is the years. 2 years/$20M is perfectly fine by me. Puts them in the lux tax, but still fine by me.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 0:11

Brian, I think Johnson moves to the 3 and M.Williams is let go for Bibby.

Bibby never really excited me. Honestly, if Holiday is going to learn behind a vet, I'd rather it be Kidd or Miller than Bibby. I may prefer he learn on the job as part of a three-man PG rotation with Lou and PTBNL vet PG for the minimum.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 23:02

I would switch Miller and Bibby in your order actually, and as for your thoughts on Millers contract, that's exactly my problem, the years, because I still don't believe Comcast is breaking the tax, so millers going to demand more years...

I see Miller as a bad on-the-ball defender, but he tries. I see Bibby as an apathetic defender who gives little to no effort. Bibby's the better shooter, and he's familiar w/ the offense though, so I can see your point. As usual, I think defense first.

I really cannot fathom the team going forward without some sort of NBA starter quality PG (or at least Blake level.) This is a playoff team, even if not a contender. Also, they need someone to help the transition to the new offense.

I have a hunch we have not seen seen the last of Andre Miller in a Sixers Uni. I guess its mostly up to Miller and any potential interest for him (I'm guessing not a ton.) Not sure how to feel about Miller for anotehr few years. I guess 2 years is a good thing, but I'd love to see an upgraded shooter/defender at PG.

You have the upgraded defender, at least for however many minutes they play him. I won't complain if Miller comes back on a 2 year deal. That should move them up in the playoffs, I just don't want him playing 40 min/game. If he's back they need to keep him fresh and get Holiday decent minutes at the point.

It may just be my perception, but I see Miller as a shooter as well, who plays point, I see Bibby more of a facilitator, especially with the better offensive game.

tk - 'this is a playoff team' - so what? If they lose in the first round - so what? I'm not worried about making the playoffs next year when signing a free agent - don't really care - that's short sighted thinking in my opinion...you're looking to build a championship team or why bother...and this roster is probably 2-3 years from championship contending and needs a new center and a stronger bench to do that contention (along with continued development of 3 key pieces)...if the sixers start thining 'we have to stay in the playoff chase' more than 'we have to build for a championship' that's how andre miller gets a four year deal.

Bibby is more of a facilitator than Miller? I don't see that at all.

Bibby took more shots (12.7/36 min last year for Bibby, 12.6 for Miller), less assists/36 than Miller (5.2 to 6.5). He did take better care of the ball (1.9 TOV/36 vs. 2.4 TOV/36).

Overall, Miller was a much more efficient offensive player, Bibby just shot the three better.

John reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 23:25

Like I just said. Only my perception. I should have done a little more research up front, but I can see Miller being the better offensive player...yes

I get what you are saying- and you prob know I'm not in win now mode.

It just would seem odd to turn over the keys of an otherwise decent team to Lou and Holiday. I would not lose any sleep over a few more losses- just seems strange.

John reply to tk76 on Jul 1 at 23:27

I'm not suggestion Lou and Holiday as the only point guards, I'm just saying don't worry about next years playoffs per se as the primary motivation because, as I said, to me, that's when bad (length) contracts get signed in my opinion.

If Miller wants more than 2 years, move on, if Bibby is gone, move on, look at less 'talented' but experienced options - you know like Brevin Knight, or Chris Quinn :)

Yep, it's a balance. You want to put the best team on the floor you can w/out sacrificing anything 2 years down the road.

So how much, roughly, will they be under the cap in 2 years (when you include the cap holds for Thad and Smith? Will there be a new CBA by then?

I think they might have to renounce Smith's cap hold to get far under the cap.

can the sixers trade elton brand for rip hamilton?

John reply to Mike on Jul 2 at 9:45

Why would they?

Mike reply to John on Jul 2 at 10:01

which team? sixers need a SG, and it appears that both rip & ben gordon on the same team is redundant.

john reply to Mike on Jul 2 at 10:33

Except that the sixers have a shooting guard and two back up shooting guards and only one power forward who has shown he could start in the NBA.

Your trade gives them a fourth SG and now PFs to start...so I'll ask again...why?

Mike reply to john on Jul 2 at 10:40

who is their SG? everyone in the organization has repeatedly said iguodala is a SF. i want them to play him at SG so thad can play the 3, but they've shown an unwillingness to do so. i'm just throwing another option out there.

Mike reply to john on Jul 2 at 10:42

we were just talking about a trade with houston that brings us mcgrady at the 2, and that wasn't met with much resistance.

john reply to Mike on Jul 2 at 10:54

Replying to both posts at once.

1. MCgrady is a 20+ million dollar expiring contract and the trade was built around Sam Dalembert - he's not Elton Brand - if a better center can be found he's disposable - McGrady is not an on the court trade he's a save 20 million dollars a year earlier trade.

2. Who is 'everyone' in the organization - as both Stefanski and Jordan have said that Iguodala can be a two and they'll try it out. Nothing definitive has been said regarding where Iguodala will play for Eddie Jordan.

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