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A Sham Of A Summer League

I could not agree more. I didnt see the stream as I deem it pretty much a waste but does anyone actually come to see these games ? I mean if I want to watch a pickup game I could go to my local park and actually get to play. Does the NBA or the sixers make ANY money off this deal ?

Hey - a lot of this sounds familiar :)

Seriously though, I agree wholeheartedly on this being a giant waste of time

DeanH reply to John on Jul 7 at 11:04

Thank you for a very good link. Really appreciate it. Do you have your own blog? You seem to be online day and night and quick to the keyboard. I have enjoyed your postings alot recently, thank you.

Charles Shackleford's Top Hat on Jul 7 at 10:12


Was Jrue an effective offensive player in High School?

Is he a naturally gifted scorer like Lou and Speights? Does is matter?

I watched the stream yesterday and the thing that popped into my mind watching him was, "Royal Ivey".

Yeah, I mean, his stats say he was an effective and efficient scorer in high school, but I'm not sure how much that means. I'm pretty sure that even if he doesn't score a ton he's still a much better ballhandler than Ivey, and probably better defensively as well. We'll have to see, though.

OT- Bibby is signing for 3yr/18M.

So the bar lowers for what Miller can reasonably expect.

As for SL- enjoy watching it but don't expect to glean much from what I'm seeing.

he signed w/ Atlanta for less than the MLE (with 8% increases). Guess there wasn't a whole lot of interest in him.

Bibby staying in Atlanta, as TK76 said.

Portland is the only option left for Miller now, unless a bad team comes out with a crazy offer.

Let's hope he will remain a Sixer.

I'm not sure 'hope' is the word I'd use, but 3 years 18 million wouldn't make me that upset...when holiday becomes starter in year 2 a 6 million dollar bench guard isn't a disaster

Only issue with year 3 is that it could be the difference between having only the MLE or having MLE+ money for FA. That is the difference usually between adding a good player and a lousy one.

john reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 11:01

He can be used in the 11 off season as a trade piece because of expiring contract in 12?

rjb360 reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 11:05

Would it be possible to structure Andre's deal so that he is paid $8 this year, $6 next, and $4 in year three? For an aging point guard it doesn't seem so bad - we have the space to pay him up front this year to coach Jrue and carry the team at times again, and when our roster should (hopefully) be ready to contend in over the next two years his contract will become less of a burden and we will have more flexibility to adapt our roster.

I'd offer him the same guaranteed money as Bibby, structured like this:

Year 1: $8M
Year 2: $8M
Year 3: $8M, only $2M guaranteed.

That would make him a very valuable trade piece (a team could trade for him, then release him and create $6M in cap space). The Sixers have a plan B in case Jrue isn't ready by that third year, Miller would also have the opportunity to earn the full $24M if he could get someone to pick him up for the MLE.

It's questionable that we'd have more than the MLE in that Summer. If big moves are going to be made, it's going to have to be through trades of those three expiring contracts (Sam, Kapono and Willie). Thad and Smith will both have cap holds that eat into that cap space, unless we sign Thad to an extension before then, which is definitely a possibility.

Yeah, I've tried to do the math.

I think if they can do something with Smith then there could be cap space well in excess of the MLE.

The options would be:

1. re-sign him for much less than his cap hold.
2. Trade him before that summer
3. renounce him if the right FA becomes available him.

I don't know, it's really, really tight. If you factor in two more first-round picks, let's say at #17 or better, that puts you at $49.6M with 9 guys signed, and this is assuming Smith and Thad sign their qualifying offers immediately. (EB, AI, LW, JH, TY, JS, MS, 2010 pick, 2011 pick)

Thad's cap hold will be $7.25M, Smith's will be $5.47. With both cap holds in place, that puts them at $55.28M. Assuming the cap stays flat, which may not be a safe assumption, that's less than the MLE in cap space.

If Smith is renounced, their cap number would be around $50M, which would leave them maybe $8-9M to spend. Not enough for a real impact player, but it's something to work with.

Unless Smith shows something brilliant between now and then, I don't think renouncing him would be a big deal. They could also re-sign him at a discounted rate, which would clear up some space. The biggest impediment to having any cap space at all that Summer could be Thad. If he really progresses, they're going to probably want to extend him before he even becomes a restricted FA. If they do that, all the cap space disappears.

I get the same #'s. Again, if they renounce or trade away Smith (like they did Carney but maybe actually get a pick back) then 8M under the cap is valuable. It separates you from all of the MLE teams and you can target a good player at a position of need.

Not a huge deal like signing a max guy, but still worth holding onto if you can.

Also, Thad would just re-sign after the FA pick-up. Much like Iguodala re-signed after they Philly maxed Brand.

That would be ideal, but it could cost them much more in the long run if they let him reach free agency. They tried to lock up Iguodala, couldn't, and it cost them nearly $30M more a year later.

u r right John, I should have said "I hope", cuz I am a Miller fan :-)

no chances of a three year deal, to me, it would be completely stupid, mantaining cap flexibility for summer of 2011 is too important for us.

Two years at a reasonable price (Stefanski will set what is "reasonable") would be fine

Charles Shackleford's Top Hat on Jul 7 at 11:06

I don't want him back.

Miller will play, the Sixers will be avergae, we will draft at 17 for the next two years, Jrue won't get enough burn and on and on we go.

We are not a championship challenger, let the kids play!!!


They will be drafting around there regardless.

Do you really see Iguodala/Brand/Young losing more than 45 games just becasue Miller is gone?

Personally, I think if they stay healthy their floor is about 40 wins with the roster they have right now. They may sneak into the lottery, but just barely.

I enjoy the Summer League games. If anything, it is just being able to see basketball being played. Is it good quality? No, not really, but it is a fix. It's basically entertainment value to me. The announcers sort of got on my nerves though, but made me laugh a few times.

Yeah, I mean, I love watching any kind of basketball. It's just the lost opportunity that's killing me. Iguodala, Williams, Thad and Jason Smith are all working out w/ Mark Price (I think) right now. Jrue and Speights should be there, they'd be getting much more out of it than playing pickup games in ORL.

I wouldn't get too excited about them working with Mark Price. Marquis Daniels spent all of the last offseason working with Price and he shot a whole 20% from threes!

Thad worked with him last Summer, seemed to help him.

Wow, I can't believe JOB let him take 90 threes shooting 20%. That's outrageous.

on a side note, apparently (according to the philly inquirer) houston has no interest in dalembert. mcgrady was not even brought up, but houston still shot it down. houston was not going to happen anyway but there was no other news today.

At this point, I'd like them to start working on figuring out how Sammy is going to fit into this system, and how they can keep him from being a malcontent, because he's going to be on the team and honestly, they need him on the floor for his defense and rebounding. They tried to move him, there were no takers, now it's time to figure out how to make it work so you can (a) Win games with him this season and (b) trade him next Summer when his contract is expiring.

Maybe have Sammy replace Hip Hop?

Chris reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 13:38

That SF76 on RealGM was saying if he can't fit in to Jordan's system and starts raising a ruckus that buying him out will be on the table. They don't want a malcontent poisoning the team. Not sure I like that as his contract might be worth a lot (in a trade) for his final year. I guess it winds up how much of a cancer you think he could be.

I'd rather the Sixers either have a team of their own (is it really that much money compared to how much they pay these guys) or just work out at PECO (or somewhere else as a team) and learn the system. Holiday isn't going to learn much if the second every time he passes it the other guy hoists a shot.

Yeah, I don't see a buyout happening with 2 years left on his deal. He's not Chris Webber, this team isn't in that position and E.S. is not B.K.

Eddie Jordan - on Speights

"He made shots. We'd still like to see him execute a little better," Jordan said. "There were some breakdowns where he should have done some things, executionwise, on both ends. Stats don't mean a whole lot. He might have had 28, but he probably could have had 20 and given his teammates 10 points along the line."

Those are the type of things a coach could address if it was just the Sixers, with their coach, in the Summer League. To be fair to Speights, he wasn't the only trigger happy guy out there.

john reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 15:52

But follow that with Speights other quote which reads like Speights wants to get farther from the basket - not closer - and my concern level climbs a bit.

Jordan himself said out loud in the paper that he didn't like this split squad thing (which probably will get him rebuked by scrooge mcsnider and the other comcast skinflints)

Speights, on Speights

Close or far, apparently it won't matter to Speights. "It's something I've been working on the whole summer," Speights said of expanding his range. "Whenever I get it, I feel like I can shoot it, I'm going to shoot it."

In regards to his taking 3's (which Jordan didn't like)

Must say this is a joyous quote that fills me with dread

Chris reply to john on Jul 7 at 16:27

I saw that quote too and have the same dread.

Seems every big guy now wants to be a Dirk perimeter type. No one seems to want to be a low post player anymore. You would think a low post player would command a premium now as very few people have that skill. I was hoping Speights would develop along the lines of a better rebounding Amare with more range. Not another Dirk wannabe.

I always thought Sheed's love affair with the three was one of the things that stopped him from dominating. It's cool to have a 4 or 5 who can stretch the floor, but guys who can bang down low, should really develop that skill and lean on it.

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 16:53

I don't get this. If he can be a dominant offensive guy and passable defensive player (so positive net impact), guys aren't happy with that, they want him to be dominant on both ends, which would pretty much make him premiere all-star.

Fine, so he plays pretty decent defense and tries out another area of his game that needs some work and there's all this stuff about omg! he's trying to get better!!

He's still really young and this is summer league, the best place for a young 'un to try out new stuff. This is only a problem if he shows over a period of time there hasn't been any significant progress on his jumper (so he might as well stick with his bread and butter).

It's funny all this fear and dread over something like this for a mid-first round pick but it's all looka-that-dee for jrue. Of the two mid-first round picks, we have a lot more to be concerned about right now with Jrue as a future starter than Speights.

Actually, I don't. I prefer defense.

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 9:25

Fair enough, but I'll bet what you'd be really happy with is good team defense. It's hopelessly unrealistic to expect all your starters to be awesome lockdown guys at their position. It's not even necessary. If you have one lockdown guy, and two more rock solid defenders, you can get away with two passable defenders if they play great team defense.

It'd be a dream if Speights could give you on the defensive end what he delivers offensively, but the fact is he lacks the lateral quicks (and/or proper technique) to hedge properly. It's a flaw. He still stays in it tho and goes for a steal or block where he can. The thing is, more often than not, he more than makes up for that defeciency on the other end. It's about that net effect. I keep sayin.

Bud Shuster reply to Real and Speightacular on Jul 8 at 8:56

"he plays pretty decent defense"

No, he doesn't. If he did, I'd be happy.

Real and Speightacular reply to Bud Shuster on Jul 8 at 9:15

dude, the context was that particular game.

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jul 7 at 16:34

Bit of a weird writeup by this Marcus Hayes guy. Any philly/basketball fan can see where he made a couple of obvious factual errors and he injects little bits of opinion in there like he's a blogger instead of reporter (or is this a "column" piece?).

Anyway, as it's been noted here, Speights knows he can score on the block. It's been expressed that he should be working on his weaknesses over the summer and his eFG, which Brian's pointed out before, could use some work. Now in the summer league free for all there's fretting over it. Don't sweat it, M16 obviously sees this as an opportunity to freewheel. In Jordan's practice sessions he won't have nearly that kind of freedom (unless of course he's hittin em).

Dude wants to be that inside-outside threat and enjoys the faceup game, too. If he's making the shots, this isn't an issue (btw, Jordan was not referring to threes, specifically -- and once more I remind folk to read the source directly and don't let axe-grinders like John interpret for you what was actually said).

Speights made 11 of 26 shots, but those 26 shots were more than twice as many as any teammate, and his matchups - gangly center Roy Hibbert or smaller rookie Tyler Hansbrough - were to Speights' advantage. He even launched a couple of failed three-pointers, to Jordan's dismay.

"He should have been closer to the basket a lot more," Jordan said.

Eddie Jordan sounds thrilled with Speights work on the perimeter doesn't he?

It seems to me that speights strength last year was his 19 foot game and that his low post game needed more work - extending his range isn't as important as learning to be an NBA big man who can work the low post - especially in the offense that Jordan wants to run.

It's funny when someone says I have an 'axe' to grind yet keep grinding the same old axes they've ground since draft night, while the coaches and GM publicly make statements to counteract the love and hate one has for certain players

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jul 7 at 17:51

Pick a leg to stand on, buster. You were talking about his 3-point shooting specifically. I know so because it's right here in the thread where everyone can see. Speights took two 3-pointers all game. Jordan could not have been talking about Speights' 3-pt shooting as this guy Marcus would have you (and you have us) swallow. Good thing there's a high-brow-enough crowd in here who knows from critical reading skills.


If you think 28 points on 26 shots is a good outing you probably think Allen Iverson is an efficient basketball player as well

Real and Speightacular reply to john on Jul 7 at 17:54

p.s. if you can find a place in here where i said any such thing, i'll leave and never come back. otherwise you be strawman-building fraud. don't strain your eyes now.

Second game about to start on the orlando magic stream.

They've named the Netsers the 'scrapple' today

I'm watching now. Better feed today, but I can only watch for an hour or so.

john reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 17:14

I can't 'watch' per se - but i can listen...I saw Holiday make a nice pass to CDR for CDR's second basket...

Bad pass by Jrue (tried a bounce pass through traffic to CDR), hustles back and knocks the ball out of bounds on the ensuing break.

J-Ho has looked solid. Really works on defense, even if not always successful.

Sick feed from Jrue to Speights for a slam. Very nice pick and roll play by both guys.

Speights with a couple nice blocks, and not of the "My man blew by me, so I blocked his shot from behind" variety.

David Thorpe using twitter from the games

Holiday is finally attacking off the dribble and it's made a big difference.,

Real and Speightacular on Jul 7 at 17:42

Holiday on his teammates yesterday:

"The guys definitely made it easier for me, running, getting down the floor, jumping, highlight finishes at the basket, and Marreese was going to work. Nobody could really stop him - from the rim all the way out to the three-point line - so why not get him the ball!"

Ballers know the score ;-)

More thorpe

Speights said yesterday that he wants to shoot every time he touches the ball. He's a man with a plan.

john reply to john on Jul 7 at 17:50

But it's a bad plan.

If my eyes aren't fooling me, I think Jrue just hit a corner three as the shot clock expired. Dionte Christmas hit one earlier.

Strong half time show

watching the clock countdown and michael jackson in the background

Charles Shackleford's Top Hat on Jul 7 at 17:57

Are the archiving this stream?

God, i need a life.


One app i've never seen created (though I'm sure it would be very popular) is a do it yourself app that allows you to save live streams...i'm sure it would get killed right away by te evil folk - but imagine the anarchy for a while.

I don't know if they are archving these games - are they?

I don't think so. There are ways to capture a live stream, I believe. Beyond my technical expertise, though.

john reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 18:18

I always felt that would just be an awesome app that would piss off the folk at ESPN/MLB/NBA etc...:)

So the second half has started, and the camera is still frozen on the scoreboard...why bother broadcast if you're going to half ass it?

Ahearn with a nice 3 in transition I just saw - to bring the scrapple within 14

john reply to john on Jul 7 at 18:21

make that 9 - they had the score board messed up

Todays volume shooter seems to be NETS CDR

These announcers blow, but they're dead right on CDR. That guy is a waste.

More Thorpe

Holiday is not a finisher yet, but he will be. He's big and craftier than you'd think.

Didn't Speights work with thorpe at one point at the IMG?

Not sure. Thorpe's twittering is tedious. Every scrub "is an nba player just waiting to happen." Unless they're robert swift.

john reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 18:37

Well he said bad things about speights so if he was some guy he worked with - that would be a first

He must have an axe to grind if he said something negative about Speights. Disregard such statements.

john reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 18:50

You know - that's true, didn't consider that.

Holiday sounded slightly better today than yesterday...even if the box score won't reflect it...5 games in 5 days - just hope he lasts

Real and Speightacular on Jul 8 at 7:48

The boxscore from yesterday's game. Pretty horrid day for Speights, shootingwise and weak boarding. The encouraging stuff? Five blocks and a steal (with decent foul total) in 28 mins. We've seen flashes of this before (check last season's game logs). I know he can be at least a passable defender, just needs to get consistent, something almost all young nba padawans have trouble with (consistency).

Jrue continues to show he doesn't have a natural scorer's mentality (not that there's anything inherently wrong with that), but gives strong effort on the boards. Curiously, not a single steal, though he was only out there for 25 mins (didn't see the game, doesn't mean he didn't pressure the ball well or deflect/change passes/shots). Big encouraging bit: a positive A/TO. that may sound a bit facetious, but it's not meant that way. baby steps.

They're glorified pickup games but they're fun and still give insight re player's natural tendencies/preferences. Or, sometimes, what they're working on.

FWIW, Jordan has said that the plays being run are a combination of what the Nets like to do and what Philly is moving toward.

sidenotes: showing an axe to grind isn't always just about what you say, it's often enough about what you don't (refuse to) say/admit, too. if we're talking thorpe, i've seen his notes and articles over the season and, yes, to me, he's left out M16 or given him short shrift compared to others in similar or worse situations.

i've worked in media a little bit and i know how reporters have a lot of power to shape stories. it's about "angles" and selectivity and phrasing. anyway, thorpe's not a bona fide reporter, he's out there for exposure. since when did we start taking him seriously? has he become a credible analyst now?

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