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Forget the FAs For a Minute

"Now, have these plans changed? Was Jordan banking on the Sixers adding another starter-caliber player to the roster? Was Jordan planning on having Andre Miller back at the point? Or maybe this is still the plan. Maybe Jordan wants Iguodala at the three, either to learn the offense from that position before moving him, or permanently."

I'm not a mind-reader, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't planning on having Miller back. His comments when he was hired generally suggested otherwise. Of course, he may have thought we were bringing in a point guard or legitimate two. But have we really made efforts in that regard, enough to suggest that Stefanski at some point told him it was likely we'd be bringing in someone at those positions? Doesn't seem that way. So no, I think he regards Iguodala as a small forward, as many people do. Perhaps they're in error, but you can see the argument - and you can also see why EJ would be so opposed to playing Dalembert much that he would want a small lineup with Brand at the 5, Thad at the 4 and consequently Iguodala at the 3. That's very possibly the thinking here. As for two-guard, you know, no one ever said we were going to be a contender this year. If you're still building, you're going to have a hole somewhere in your lineup.

I don't know, I get the feeling a lot has changed in the front office as the Summer has worn on. Having Holiday fall to them probably changed the thinking, somewhat. I'm guessing they view him as not only an eventual starter, but a centerpiece, which may have changed how they felt about bringing Miller back, or bringing someone like Bibby in. The drop in the cap, and the threat of a further drop next season may have pushed them to be even more frugal.

I don't think it's out of the question to believe Jordan thought he'd be getting one more starter to work with in the back court.

Tray reply to Brian on Jul 18 at 0:27

I mean, we were always getting some point guard in the draft, and clearly Holliday won't be ready so fast that a short deal with Bibby wouldn't make some sense. So I don't know that that's the change.


Andre Miller. That reported sign-and-trade of Miller to the Knicks for Chris Duhon? “Never happened,” a source close to the situation told SN Today. “That was something that someone simply made up. Probably Andre Miller’s agent.”
The only real possibility for Miller to join the Knicks would be a one-year deal worth the midlevel ($5.85 million). Other than that, Miller’s choices are limited. He can hope that Portland loses out in its offer for Paul Millsap and that, afterward, the Blazers chase Miller.
Or he can hope that the Sixers make a generous offer, as the Lakers did for Odom. Hopefully, Miller paid enough attention to Odom’s situation to know he should quickly accept a decent Philly offer.

I read tonight that the Jazz plan to match the offer sheet for Millsap. Still doubt the Blazers want Miller, but I guess they're back on the table as a sign-and-trade partner, at least theoretically. I seriously doubt he'll be back in Philly this season, though.

gun to my head, i say there's zero percent jrue starts... even if he outplays Lou. i don't think EJ starts a rookie.

after hearing EJ's comments, i see bill green starting at the two again. it sucks, but i think that's the way it goes down.

personally i'd like to see the lineup you tweeted about. jrue, andre, thad, brand, sam. who needs shooting when you can play D like those 5 would?

Corso reply to Jordan on Jul 17 at 8:55

Yeah, defensively that lineup would be killer... I honestly would like to see us go with that one. If Thad's 3-point range keeps improving and either Jrue or Iggy can knock down an open shot when called upon to do so, it could be extremely effective.

It all comes down to whether EJ wants to go with the hand he's dealt (i.e. playing Sammy at center) or put his best players on the floor (i.e. moving Brand to center and Thad to PF and thus playing people out of position).

Putting his best players on the floor would be playing sammy at the five.

Corso reply to Brian on Jul 17 at 12:00

You know, upon reflection, I'll give you that. My brain and fingers didn't quite synch up there. Our top three players are Iggy, Thad, and Brand... thereafter, based on his defensive intimidation, it's pretty fair to argue that Sammy must be one of the next two. Of course, that would mean that two of these three (Lou, Marreese, and Kapono) lose out. Are Marreese and Kapono the two? I guess so.

Anyway, back to my original post. I was probably thinking that, if EJ doesn't go with Sammy, it'll be a result of his estimation that Sammy isn't one of the five best players for his system. The characterization (right or wrong... probably right) that Sammy's low b-ball IQ won't allow him to function well in the P.O.

Brian, I don't think Kapono can start, reguardless of the position (to me he's a SF more than a SG)

A starting back court of LW + Kapono would be the worst defensive combo EVER, talking about 55-60 points allowed to their opponents every given night.

I agree with Jordan (the reader) that Jrue SHOULD not start. and I also agree that unfortunately we will see a lot of Willie Green again, if something doesn't change. Yes, maybe even as a starter.

The fisrt line up you wrote is the better to me, with Andre at the two. I hope after training campo Jordan (the coach) will be convinced to use this line up in Game 1.

I strongly dislike Brand at the five also, I would play that for no more than 5 minutes per game, and only vs Golden State...

Brian, how about CARLOS ARROYO at PG?

I've discussed this with some guys on the board of Philly.com and I think it could be a good short term solution, for cheap. Guy can play, has NBA experience, also in good teams, and would come for few $ I think.

if Andre is going to be locked in at SF, I would rather see Thad at the 2 than at the 4, given who else is on our roster. His handle is improving, and I think his shot's actually better than Dre's. Yes, he would have some trouble staying with smaller shooting guards, but a) so do our smaller shooting guards (remember making Courtney Lee famous?), and b) we have entertained on this board the possibility of bringing in Mike Miller at that position, and he is slower than Thad at about the same size. Overall, still prefer Dre at the guard spot (if paired with Lou "I am ALWAYS in the act of shooting" Williams I think he'll be more of a point than a two, as someone has to pass the ball), but if that's not happening, Thad at the 2 is the next best option...

Either way you slice it, Iguodala and Thad need to be on the wings as far as I'm concerned. If they aren't we're going to have 2 guys out of position, minimum, and it's not like they'd be making these concessions to get a good shooting guard on the floor. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Sigh...none of these are any good, but willie green can't be allowed to start, and elton brand should not start at the center.

paul reply to John on Jul 17 at 11:21

Actually, Willie seemed OK as a starter - for the first 10 to 15 minutes anyway. It was after they would take him out and put him back in that he seemed to accomplish little of value.

john reply to paul on Jul 17 at 11:39

To meWille Green is an NBA bench player, a 7th/8th man on a team that considers it self a contender to even win one round in the playoffs. If he's only good for 10-15 minutes per game they shouldn't be at the beginning as I see it, guys like that are built to be used in spot moments where they do the most good...continuing to start a bench guy and 2 (or 3) guys out of position versus putting the best guys in the best spots just would point to a deeper flaw with the sixers and me giving up complete hope that Ed Stefanski has a clue HOW to build a winning basketball team

I still think that the team will bring in another veteran point guard even if they can't make a sign and trade deal. Maybe somebody like Marbury. Maybe somebody of a lesser reputation or someone who has been playing overseas. Who knows? Maybe even Iverson. Stranger things have happened. I just have a hard time seeing the team trusting Lou Williams as a full time point. I could see them using him part at point and part at shooting guard.

Iverson and Marbury would be terrible ideas and probably cost more than the sixers are willing to spend right now, I hope a vet point is brought in but it doesn't have to be a 'star name' to be a solid edition. Just has to be a guy whose skills fit Jordans system and realizes he's placeholding

Real and Speightacular on Jul 17 at 11:56

Not to be too heretical, but if you have Brand, Iggy and Sam as your frontcourt, that's one terrific defensive front. Put Jrue on the point for defense, primarily and green at the two for mainly the same thing and you've got a starting squad that's got some scoring thru Brand and Iggy but largely going to depend on its bench to overwhelm the other team's bench. Bench is Thad, Lou, Speights, Ivey and rehab guy.

They showed last year they could hang in some games with defense. Perhaps a PO and a stronger Brand will give them juuust enough offense to hold the fort for an overwhelming bench mob to come in and destroy.

Give Thad some minutes at b/u 4 and SP8s some mins at b/c center and both those guys can regularly see about 25 mins a game?

Just spitballin.

I think Thad deserves 35 MPG, that's the best way for him to develop.

Real and Speightacular reply to Alvin on Jul 17 at 12:41

Perhaps that's the plan after December. Mebbe at that point he then moves into the starting 3-spot and they move Iggy to the two as Jordan's more or less stated.

If Willie Green starts, I will consider becoming a NY Knick fan! I will be extremely disappointed and will not go to many games, may just sell my season ticket for what I can get for it. Not even worth paying for parking if Willlie Green starts.

Just to be clear, I am a sixer fan and will always be a sixer fan. Just not happy if that happens.

tom moore article out that says that the pacers are interested in miller. he said that the pacers do not have the money but would be interested in a sign and trade. but who would ed be interested in getting back? foster is the only player that we would not have to add a player from our roster to get.

Real and Speightacular on Jul 17 at 21:16

Earl Watson's available! Nab! Nab!

Do you have a link? Is this something new?

Real and Speightacular on Jul 17 at 21:29


If you're going to burst my bubble with some technicality why we can't get him, save it til tomorrey.

No bubble to burst. I was thinking CJ Watson before.

eddies' heady's on Jul 17 at 23:38

If we get him. ummmmm-hmmmmm!..... Wow.

eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 0:02

oh. please, please..... Then we can start him and Lou at the 'guards' (even though this offense is somewhat position-less), and Dala and Thad as the small-ball wings in a sense, and EB at the five. The team oriented defense they could employ could get EB by.

If they're going to go with Lou, and sadly Willie again, then just let Lou run with the starters for that 1st and 3rd quarters and end of game if it presents itself, and let Willie get some of those 'bench' minutes during the end of 1st/midway through 2nd and maybe 3rd/4th interval type time. Just switch them and see if the rest of the talent from the starters can calm Lou down.

eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 1:23

Ed, Ed, Eddie, and Earl....it's alot of E's...... but its'a gettin better...

Um, sure, I guess, at least he's a point gurd nd a veteran with an above 2:1 career A:TO :)

In a conventional offense the 2 and 3 have very similar roles. But this is not the case with the P.O. Not a P.O. expert, but I think the 1 and 2 are the same and the 3 and 4 are the same.

That is why they want Iguodala to start the year at SF, because SG is a hugely different position in the P.O. Then when he is comfortable in a few months they will give him minutes at SG.

I am just surprised they are not bringing in a vet guard with some working knowledge of the P.O. Is no one available? Because it could leade to a very bumpy road with any of the 4 option you presented trying to implement a new offense. Sort of wastes the high end talent of Brand/Thad/Iguodala if the ball starts in the hands of the likes of Jrue/Lou/Green. Scary stuff IMO, but then again I'm always sounding like a pessimeist these days.

Overall, I'm still hopeful for later in the season, but those first few months could be ugly.

That's my understanding of the PO as well, but I see this as two very good reasons to start the season with Iguodala at the two. The first being the team is better off with him at the two and Thad at the three, long term. The second is that Iguodala is probably the team's best ballhandler/playmaker right now, so using him at one of the guard position should help smooth out some of those bumps.

I agree on both counts. Just think this is the Sixers thinking- not mine.

I think starting Brand/Young at C/PF is unreasonable defensively. Almost as much as starting Lou/WG at PG/SG is poison to an offense.

Remember my "all out of position" Sixers team?

Yup. It may come to pass.

I'm so convinced the team is gonna put a crap lineup out there. My 2 cents (based on current roster):

ideal: dalembert/brand/thad/iggy/holiday

acceptable: dalembert/brand/thad/iggy/lou

awful: brand/thad/iggy/green/holiday

There are even more awful ones possible, but God forbid.

Add my 2 cents to yours, because I agree.

Indianapolis Star reports that Watson has already agreed to sign with the Pacers once he clears waivers.

So Watson not available for the sixers (I doubt they would have talked to him) and the rumored (but I never believed) interest in Andre Miller probably fizzles out

I don't agree with Dwyer on this. Two things you can criticize Miller for (1) skipping the exit interview, (2) taking the summer off and having to play himself into shape. But during the season last year, I don't think he was dogging anything. He played hurt for a long stretch and you can obviously look at tape and see him playing less-than stellar defense, but I rarely if ever thought he was coasting out there on the floor.

I think this is a perception thing because he's a quiet guy and his game looks lethargic. Don't really think it's fair to say he mailed in this season, though. He played hard with nagging injuries.

eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 13:16

*Sigh*....Excitement tempered quickly.

So the Pacers have TJ Ford, who is a very capable point guard, and they are farther away from contending than we are, yet, they want to sign Earl Watson.

We have no proven points, and have a roster playoff-ready approaching contender status, but we don't seem to make it to the head of the line for Earl.

Ed, where did you leave your black top hat and rabbit?

Frown beginning to form....

eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 13:36

Btw, since some 'round these parts want to compare summer league numbers as if they really carry any weight, and the mockery and ridicule delivered this one's way over the "only person in the country to have Wayne Ellington 'rated' above others etc."; that FG % and 3 PT % sure look like something this here Sixers team could use.


eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 16:30

I mean, what do I know? I ONLY watched maybe around 100 of this kid's and Lawson's games in college. But, of course, the Draft Express' and the like certainly know best. I mean, they do get paid to evaluate. As if being compensated somehow certifies an opinion.

Who wouldn't take the highest 'rated' kid with the most 'upside'? Instead of, selecting the best possible 'fits' considering current personnel.

I would think after the JOhn Salmons event sixers fans would realize how little summer league results mean.

eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 16:58

Tell that to the compadre that you ride shotgun with - aka the calculator guy...

eddies' heady's on Jul 18 at 23:54

On a side note, for those with NBA TV, you can watch the replay of Ty Lawson's Nuggets and his near 69% shooting overall from the floor, and his 50% shooting from three, and his five boards and five dimes with only 2 turnovers, against the Trail Blazers at 3:30 on Sunday afternoon.

Wonder if they will replay his stellar outing going on right now against the D-League Select team on Monday?

eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 20 at 0:29


Lawson's five game totals finished at -

45% shooting
50% 3 PT shooting
84% free throws
4 Rebounds and Assists per game
2.2 Turnovers and 1.2 steals per game
17.2 points per game

'I just love how everyone thinks Lawson is such a sure thing.'

Me too, but hey, it is ONLY Summer League.

Real and Speightacular reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 20 at 7:53

EH, more sympathetic to your case I could not be. I wasn't the least bit worried about Ty's tough start. Lawson's proven that he can adjust and improve weaker parts of his game. This is a mentally tough and determined guy.

The Sixers haven't been perfect with DiLeo in the mix (see Carney, Rodney). I mean, who is? Possibly the Spurs, who weren't about to let a proven performer like Blair Force One pass them by as did six other second round GMs before them. Sometimes, as in the game, you don't need to go for the high-risk, potentially dazzling play when the solid, low-risk-yet-highly-effective, dead-simple one is right there to be made.

But it's true, it's just summer league and it's not easy to make predictions based on this stuff. All our guy's shown is that he can handle things at this level. A quantum leap of difficulty lies ahead. I'm betting he figures that one out too, sooner than later. But if you're expecting some kind of mea culpa from BJo, the twin-headed beast of supreme rationality, you're wasting time. Holiday may yet pan out. Lawson may yet meet his Waterloo. Couple more years to go, mate.

deepsixersuede reply to Choo on Jul 19 at 10:31

Choo, can!t argue with that, good stuff!! Brian, I expect lineup #2 because,Dei Lynum stated after the Kapono trade that she expects Kapono on the court 20 to 25 minutes a night and our coach talked about weak defenders being covered for if they"solve " a weakness down the offensive end. D.Lynum has been right a lot since the summer started and seems to get a lot of inside info from her pop, it must be nice.

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