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Attitude Counts For So Much

Very well put Brian, as this deal made no sense to me either. The Thunder were turned off by Chandler over a toe issue, and it makes me wonder about Charlotte. I guess trading away money could make it easier to sell the Bobcats.

Maybe the Hornets have another deal in mind with OKC? I could Okafor fitting in well next to Durant, Green, and Westbrook.

Can the Thunder put a package together that would mean immediate savings for NO? I just can't figure this one out from any angle.

Not sure if Krstic would get it done, but he is only signed for two more seasons at around 5 mill per. Thunder does hold a huge trade chip in the un-protected Suns 2010 first round pick, but that will more than likely be kept.

Well I'd say Chandler's better than Dalembert, though of course a lot of that one good year was Paul. Benefits of playing alongside the world's best point guard aside, Chandler pulled down 12 boards a game for 2 years straight before his headcase season last year, and he's way more of a threat in transition than Dalembert. Much more efficient too, probably because Chandler doesn't have delusions about being able to shoot from beyond 6 feet and Dalembert does. Put it this way, Larry Brown would never sign off in a thousand years on an Okafor-for-Dalembert swap. And rightly so.

The Brown thing comes down to the title of this post, because on paper Dalembert is a safer bet than Chandler, whose physical killed a deal in Feb. He also only grabbed 12 boards/game once. And their efficiency numbers weren't that far off. I'll take Dalembert's superior shot blocking ability over a couple of percentage point in TS when we're essentially comparing two defensive centers.

Tray reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 8:16

You wouldn't call 11.8 12? How about this, over two seasons he averaged 12.1 a game. I haven't seen the TS but on just raw field goal percentage Chandler shot 7 points higher last year, the two years before that he shot 60-plus.

He also shoots under 60% from the line for his career, which takes away from his efficiency. Like I said, they both take so few shots that a few percentage points either way doesn't make a whole lot of difference, offense is not what you're paying them for. Neither of them really helps or hurts you, on paper, on the offensive side. Pretty much garbage men on offense.

Tray reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 11:20

Yeah, maybe all the Sportscenter highlights have gotten in my head, but I'd call Chandler a super-garbage man and Dalembert a so-so garbage man (bad hands, not the greatest offensive rebounder) who still doesn't get that offensively he's garbage.

Fair assessment.

there are also some of the things that the numbers don't say. if i do recall correctly, chandler is better than sam at hedging the pick and roll. if chandler is healthy though, no one really propels themselves to the top. yet another big name, this has no point kind of trade.

The money NO would be committing is just crazy. I still can't believe it.

There is a real possibility NO is banking on a 2011 lockout. They save 2 mil in the short term and are betting for help from the league later. Unfortunately that probably isn't the world's worst bet ...

That's possible, but I'm not sure what kind of help they're hoping for. Last time, each team got 1 get out of jail free card, meaning they could jettison one contract that would no longer count against the cap (but they still had to pay the contract out). Maybe they'd be hoping they could unload Okafor at that point, or maybe they're hoping the season is canceled? Who knows. I just don't understand the complete 180 for not that much of an upgrade. Oh well.

deepsixersuede on Jul 28 at 7:27

Maybe a buyout of Stojokovic is in the future or a backdoor ultimatum by Paul, but the Charlotte mindset has me wondering why; just a salary dump? Chandler does nothing better than Okafor and gets hurt alot. I guess Mohammed not being moved has hurt their budget and does this give any creedence to the prior Sam to Charlotte rumour?

johnemagee on Jul 28 at 10:09

Like i said somewhere else, the perception of Sam is that he's not as good as Tyson Chandler. Even though they put up close to equivalent overall numbers on equivalent contracts, Chandler is seen as 'better' than Sam.

Maybe instead of practicing he should be like fat shaq and go on the wwe instead? Would that change the perception?

Doesn't Okafor have back issues?

Can't remember if it was back injuries early in his career, but he hasn't missed a game in a couple seasons, so I'd say he's over them, if that was the case.

Sam has earned some of the bad perception and Chandler did have one excellent season, but overall, I'll take Sam's superior shot blocking, durability and childish behavior over Chandler's injuries and superior scoring efficiency, I guess.

johnmagee reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 11:53

Well talking win shares, basketball reference splits out offense and defense, sam was a defensive win share MACHINE last year (3.4) but Chandler almost doubled Sam's offensive win share numbers.

I have no idea where Okafor fits in - i just didn't look him up (ideally i went for TO%, which on career the two are close but last year sam was god awful and chandler was better) - i've often felt that the only difference between sam and chandler is one of perception - all this really shows us is that GMs aren't really doing their jobs as well as they should be as a whole - cause the differences (actual) between Sam and Chandler are slight whereas the perceived difference is much larger.

Hollinger thinks NO won big time in this deal. Of course, PER says they did so he doesn't really have a choice. I think he's also a little too psyched that they saved $2.2M over the next two seasons, and not upset enough that they're spending $40M in the following three years, but that's just me, I guess.

I just checked 82games.com, here are the defensive numbers for the three players last season (this is the production number for the opposing player guarded by said player)

Okafor: 17.6
Chandler: 16.7
Dalembert: 15.7
DPOY Dwight Howard: 14.2

johnmagee reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 13:23

That's my one biggest beef with Hollinger, he doesn't see beyond his own math - and his math is pretty offensive and box score oriented - the 'new school' of basketball has to move beyond the boxscore and find a way to integrate defensive metrics (and other things) not visible in box score. It's not the same bas baseball and can't be treated the same, and hell even baseball continues to evolve, even if Peter Gammons seems to think OPS is now the be all and end all and really can't see past that.

Try asking peter gammons about BABIP and FIP versus ERA and BAA, you might induce another coronary

That's not fair...it was a stroke, not a heart attack.

Hollinger's bread is buttered by PER, so he has to use it to the exclusion of basically all other metrics, in every column he writes. It's a shame, because I think he's a bright guy.

johnmagee on Jul 28 at 15:21

Yep, I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, if he's on the team he needs to be on the floor. Dalembert is a net positive for this team, statistically. And if Eddie Jordan can somehow not only get a honeymoon period out of Dalembert, but make it last through next season, the Sixers have a chance at being a top defensive team, thanks in large part to the oft maligned Sammy D.

johnmagee reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 16:19

My only (continued) concern is not only integrating him into this new offense but his dedication to learning it and KNOWING HIS ROLE...not just for the season but for the development of this team under Eddie Jordan.

Well, I am now, and will forever remain a defense-first guy.

Maybe it's as simple as giving Sammy something to do? I mean, what the hell did he do in the old offensive "systems?" Basically, he stood around at the foul line and once in a while caught a lob. Now he'll be setting screens and, hopefully, moving without the ball in these mini-sets that could wind up with an easy look for him. Maybe he thrives in it. Who knows. I'm just ecstatic that he's in the gym working out with the coach in July.

johnmagee reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 16:27

I worry about him and holding on to the ball - his TO% last year was 19.9% - passing is a key part of this system...I'm not getting too excited about him being at the gym until i see something tangible if even during preseason

If Gay makes the team over Iguodala I'm moving to Canada.

johnmagee on Jul 28 at 15:53

what - you didn't like his nike commercial?

Listening to Billy King on 610 at all? I missed his defense of his tenure, now he's giving baseball trade analysis.

That's awesome. I didn't hear it, wonder if he even tries to defend the contracts he handed out.

johnmagee on Jul 28 at 17:24

Billy King was a worse GM than Ed Wade - that's just sad

My only regret is that I have only six years to give...

A little late, but Dalembert was on the top 20 underrated team.(DBERRI) Anyone see the Sixer on the top 20 Overrated?


Joe reply to Joe on Jul 28 at 23:18

and RIP Jim Johnson

I don't know that there has been a coach, whether it be assistant or head coach, in this city over my lifetime I liked as much as Jim. 10 fantastic seasons.

Yup. He's going to be missed.

Hmmn. Scoring bias exposing Thad on that list. Interesting. Can't really argue against his inclusion considering how often I talk about Iguodala being screwed by the scoring bias. Thad needs to round out the other areas of his game, hopefully he'll fill the stat sheet a little more with more minutes at his natural position.

johnemagee reply to Brian on Jul 28 at 23:36

I read that one when it was originally posted - he's on my news reader - just didn't post the link to it :)

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