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Jordan On Jrue

I loved Iguodala's quotes about him too. Talking about how Jrue reminded him of him back in the day. He raved about Speights in a similar fashion last year if I recall.

I read a great quote from Iguodala saying that Jrue was such a good defender that Iguodala had to give him an elbow in the face (sounds like something Kobe would say.) He talked about Jrue's strength, which is impressive when you think of how strong Iguodala is and how Jrue is only 19.

I have very little in the way of expectations for Jrue this year, but am ecstatic that they drafted him. I remember posting how they should try and trade up and get him when he slipped out of the top 9 picks...

On the other hand I've also read how Green forced Jrue into an 8 sec violation, and how Jrue has turned the ball over a bunch despite overall having a good handle. Sort of have to expect big growing pains.

Found the exact quote from Tom Moore's blog:

"He's a tough defender," Iguodala said. "I had to elbow him in the face because he was on me. His basketball mentality is really good. He’s strong."

Real and Speightacular on Oct 3 at 6:51

We already knew this tho. Jordan's talking up Jrue's strengths some of which (he seems to be saying, imho) aren't an ideal fit for this system. But, anyway, mebbe this is good news for you b/c now you can breathe easier that Jordan is not fact some Jrue hater nor incapable of seeing talent when it's right in front of him.

Maybe this Jordan guy isn't a total idiot afterall. But, it's early ;-)

eddies' heady's on Oct 3 at 10:42

So are we suppose to continue traveling on this flight of optimism and giddy man-crush on the rook?

I mean, it's as if he is like the backup QB - the fan's favorite player that they can't wait to see get in the game. That is, until he actually does get in the game.

Even if Jrue is struggling mightily (I'll take Kate's word), do we really think Jordan or management or teammates are going to publicly rip the kid, possibly damaging his probably already fragile confidence? Me thinks not, too.

Instead of this sweet lull of a quote by Jordan on Jrue, something that is more telling to me is Kate Fagan's multiple references of Sean Singletary maybe securing that last roster spot. This, in and of itself, is a huge indictment on Jrue and his lack of.

I know you feverishly love this kid, but right now, sadly, all he is offering is the beloved upside. Which does nothing for the team in the interim and, potentially, nothing in the future.

On Sept. 30th this blog was in pumped-up mode concerning the new season, but since, it's like a box of Kleenex's are being kept near because of the new coach's decisions over a damn rookie. A freaking rookie. If your weekend getting off to a good start revolves around some minor quotes about a rook, then I am beginning to wonder the depths your fandom has sunk to.

Can we all admit he is not that vital to our success this year, so in turn, he is so undeserving of all this unbridled attention.

Sheesh... The Sixers are in camp, not Jrue Holiday.

bebopdeluxe reply to eddies' heady's on Oct 3 at 11:35

A BIG +1 to this post, bro.

Holiday's a great defender. Yay. Holiday's the future of this team. Great. But it seems pretty clear, in listening to the beat-writers who follow the team, who are watching the practices and who may just know a little about the game (like Kate Fagan), that Jrue's offense is simply not ready for prime-time. It's not an overall indictment of the kid...it is simply understandable REALITY.

You want to wreck his confidfence? Then rip him in public, Eddie. Put him out there in situations where you (and the players) know he's just not ready. If the slam on Speights last spring was that the coaches (and players) were concerned about his D, then why the @#$& would we force Holiday to play if he can't run the freaking offense yet?

ANd I absolutely agree about keeping SIngletary...although the bigger indictment was Stefanski not having a reliable vet backup PG to shoulder the load for at least the 1st half of the season.

Oops - I forgot...that's looking BACKWARDS.

I'm sorry...I promise to try to do better...now, where is that Kool-Aid pitcher?

eddies' heady's reply to bebopdeluxe on Oct 3 at 14:06

I don't know where that pitcher of Kool-Aid is, but I sure as heck know the flavor --


Real and Speightacular on Oct 3 at 12:41

Bunch more interesting quotes in this piece from SI...

"Guys in this offense are held accountable. Guys know where they are supposed to be. Last year we didn't have that. At all. This is youth basketball. Everyone touches the ball. You're part of the offense and that makes you want to be a part of the defense."
~ Elton Brand (not, you might wonder, Sammy)

It's interesting the different takes from the various medias and players. Cauldron's all a-bubble. Friday, Friday, how soon can you come?

I enjoy hearing everyone's differing opinions. Not sure why things have suddenly turned so adversarial.

I think the expression is trying to disagree without being disagreeable. It should be interesting to see how things play out during the season.

Take a step back and look at this post, guys. Jordan said something somewhat positive about a rookie. I said that was good news. Please tell me why that sends you into a frenzy of anti-Jrue rhetoric.

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Oct 3 at 16:22

Oh come now, Brian, don't feign exasperation. If Jordan had some great stuff to say about Iggy, would it have been post-worthy? No. We expect him to have great stuff to say about Iggy. It'd only be news if he panned him.

Look guys, Jordan thinks Iggy is a great player! Yawwn. Right?

Same for Jrue here. This is only newsworthy if we were mostly expecting Jordan to have negative things to say about Jrue. But I'm not sure if we think Jordan's a complete idiot yet. Of course he'll have something good to say about Jrue.

This only has some oomph in the context of this blog where there's considerable (though now frowned upon) debate over the potential of Jrue's immediate impact.

What is notable (in the context of DF hagglin) is the bit he didn't say, namely that Jrue has solid court vision and makes smart decisions with the ball. Now THAT -- THAT! -- would've been news. Or, wait, do I need to get stats for that?

So that's what I was saying here. Brian has enough ego and fanbase to withstand some mild heckling. I sometimes agree with him, but often enough I don't. I keep him on his toes, if not honest.

If detractors weren't here, Brian'd have to invent some because that makes the site more interesting. There's little more dull than an echochamber. I keeps it real, but I don't get personal. If that's not appreciated, no worries, I might as well go get some work done.

I'm not sure he's feigning anything...it's sad to have seen it deteriorate so badly so quickly because of a few posters who seem determined to turn everything ever written into the argument they want to have whether the original post is about it, says anything about it or whether the argument even matters.

Real and Speightacular reply to John on Oct 4 at 15:58

a "few," John? I guess you're including yourself as your comment above has nothing to do with the original post either. I kept mine on point. Read again.

Tk76, agreed. I enjoy reading peoples thoughts and especially Brian's. What makes this one of my favorite blogs is all the work Brian puts into his work. I know Brian does not want to 'BLOCK" or remove any ones thoughts but it is becoming absolutely a waste to read comments based upon certain people's egos.

I am getting sick of all the criticsm of Brian's thoughts without any backup. If you documentation, provide it and state it. But, please do not bloaviate.

So, I am asking all of you to STOP mocking, stating opinions that don't have any base over and over that are contrary to Brian. If you have backup, state your opinion and move on. If you don't like what Brian writes all the time, just delete his blog from your favorites. Please for the sake of ones who love this blog, don't ruin it. Thank you.

Real and Speightacular reply to DeanH on Oct 3 at 16:08

DeanH, please be specific. Are you referring to me? If so, I'd be happy to go elsewhere (or nowhere, as I spend too much time in these cyberspaces as it is).

NO, my point, I hope, is I get tired of reading over and over, as Brian pointed out, criticism over and over of the SAME thing (ie Ty L which I thought they should have taken also but this is my only and first statement of this). I appreciate all the work Brian puts in w/ his stats and references and others that do the same (which I believe include YOU!). What I don't like is just rambling on and on opinion w/ no basis other than they disagree.

And, finally, maybe I am out of line with my comments but so be it. And, once again, I want to thank most of the people here for making this a great Sixer blog!

Dutch reply to DeanH on Oct 5 at 9:15

You're completely in line, Dean. Thanks very much for posting this... I can only hope people read it and pay attention to it.

bebopdeluxe on Oct 3 at 16:00

Sorry, guys (and Brian)...not trying to be a forum terrorist...I guess that - after the last post on this forum (with the Jrue-vs-Willie discussion within it), I thought that this post felt like an agenda-pusher - that's all.

Don't get me wrong - I am VERY happy we have Holiday...relative to needs, he was WAY better than I thought we would land in the draft. I really like his future - I just think I am being more realistic about his PRESENT (i.e. what we can realistically expect to get from the guy for at least the first 40-50 games) than Brian and others around here think...that's all.

John reply to bebopdeluxe on Oct 4 at 15:07

Hmm...'agenda pusher' - irony of ironies

deepsixersuede on Oct 3 at 18:59

Good stuff guys; TK76 I agree with your Willie comments about his play the last 2 years, safe is a good word for it.It reminds me of Redick, who through better defensive effort is finally earning some p.t.. My backcourt depthchart would be as follows: shooting guard [Iggy,Carney,Willie];pointguard [Lou,Royal,Jrue]. I hope they don!t sign Singleton because Iggy and Willie can play a little at both guard spots if needed and any extra practice courttime I want to go to Jrue. I consider Royal a vet p.g. so they have addressed it even though he played more wing last year.

Sounds like Carney is earning some minutes early on with a good showing in training camp. Before camp I thought Carney, Ivey, Brezec and #14 roster spot would be out of the regular rotation unless injury or specific circumstance gave them a shot at minutes.

I think Jrue might get some early minutes based on defense and them wanting to develop him. Basically he gets the minutes Ivey might normally earn, unless Jrue really seemed not ready. On the flip side, Jrue should be in a position to dramatically increase his minutes if he shows he is ready.

eddies' heady's on Oct 3 at 20:57

Being as passionate as I am, when you need your Sixers prescription filled, and you get the same drawn-out storyline for THREE straight days when the 'posts should begin to write themselves', then, sorry for the thirst.

But we've been on the 'damper my unfounded enthusiasm' for quite a few minutes now... over miniscule quotes...

Some of us could use the enthusiasm too. But to give so much attention to the Willie/Jrue debate is so short-sighted to what this team could be becoming: Rod's on a tear (glad he's back), J Smith is at least looking fluid (surprising), Singletary possibly playing at home (just), Dala most likely receiving the entry pass from Lou at 3/4 court and creating off of his versatility (good sign), and so on.

But because a thought or counter-thought doesn't tow with the company line, then it is thought to be contrarian?

The thing that is interesting to me is the seeming contradiction in the quotes about Jrue.

Publicly there has been a decent amount of praise for the annotated point guard of the future, but what matters is the fact that Jordan has said he isn't even in his top 10 of rotational players at this point.

My question: why isn't the "best ball-handler, who can get into the lane well, loves to defend and is a secret weapon" not in the rotation? Why aren't we hearing the flaws or drawbacks along with the praise?

So it makes one wonder how much of this praise is truly real and how much is deliberate overstatements and purely promotional.

Time will tell when the real indicator of the coach's perception of a player begins - minute allocation in real games and then subsequent production.

According to Martin Frank, Jrue has already moved up the depth chart:

He began the week playing point guard on the third team during the scrimmages. By Thursday, he was on the second team. While that may or may not mean anything this early in the preseason, Jordan has said that he wants Holiday "to earn his way."

The comment Jordan made about the depth chart was on the first or second day of camp, so things may or may not have changed since then. Who knows. Iguodala has some things to say about Jrue in that story as well.

I don't know if it is really a contradiction. Basically, you can have a great handle and good court awareness, but still turn the ball over too much to be ready. It just means the raw skills are there, but the player has to adjust to the new level of the competition.

The kid is 19- I can go to a college game and marvel at a player's handle, jumper, defense and BB IQ- but that does not mean he is ready to jump into an NBA roatation the next day (and Jrue was not exactly dominating at the college level.) You don't have to be critical to know most players that age will need some seasoning to be ready for the next level.

I just read the high praise as:

1. Trying to build up a talented player's confidence who is making the "right kind of mistakes" as they adjust to their new level.

2. Suggesting once Jrue moves up the necessary learning curve his skill-set will make him a "secret weapon" as a surprise impact player sometime this year.

For the record, I really don't want to do anything to discourage differing points-of-view. I actually enjoy a fair amount of back and forth here, and if everyone agreed it wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable for me.

That being said, if every time I write Jrue Holiday's name the Ty Lawson fan club is going to chime in with their rhetoric, I'd rather they just keep it to themselves.

Jrue is a rookie, I realize that. We've been spoiled over the past two seasons by the play of Thad and, to a lesser degree, Speights, so my expectations are probably unrealistically high for Jrue. However, before anything else, I'm a Sixers fan. I'm heavily invested in the future of this team, and excited about Jrue's future in particular. I will be writing about Jrue, because honestly, to me he's the most interesting story right now. We aren't going to know if Brand's explosiveness is back until the regular season starts. We aren't going to know how PO will change things for a month or two after that. Right now, I'm really interested in how Jrue is progressing and whether or not he's going to inch his way up the ladder before the season begins.

I'm going to write about what interests me. I do my best to show both sides of things, when I can, and my only agenda here is to try to spark intelligent conversation and debate about the Sixers, by Sixers fans.

If you think I'm ignoring a certain aspect of the team, or there's something you'd like me to write about, let me know in the comments or shoot me an e-mail. Anyone who's been reading this blog for a while knows the comments section spawns posts very, very frequently. In the near future, everyone will be able to contribute their own posts here as well.

The back and forth of the past couple days is fine with me, but I don't really want to go any further down that road. Keep it civil, make sure it doesn't get personal and always keep in mind that everyone here is a Sixers fan. Even when we can't agree about anything else, we do have that in common.

Sorry for the interruption, you may now resume your griping.

Real and Speightacular reply to Brian on Oct 4 at 12:07
"That being said, if every time I write Jrue Holiday's name the Ty Lawson fan club is going to chime in with their rhetoric, I'd rather they just keep it to themselves."

No tales out of school, at draft time I said it plain and straight that I think they should've chosen Ty over Jrue. But I've moved on from that, no use cryin over spilt milk. But please note I was NOT the one lookin to get some Jrue insurance via trades a few weeks back. That was your idea, and I bugged you about that, too. I say we have him, we're "stuck" with him, let's move on.

My commentary in the last little while has been around tempering enthusiasm for this kid. It's not deserved right now, he's still exhibiting the flaws we (the non-hype buyers) expected to see. The talk for now is not anymore about how soon he'll be taking over from Lou, but hoping he might be a net positive in the near future, trusted to earn minutes from Willie Green (Willie Green!), who is continuing to flaunt is lucky summamabitchness by fluking into a situation that works to his meagre strengths.

That's where we're at. Jrue should be on everyone's way backburner for the time being. If we see great signs at some point in the season, awesome. Till such time, we should be fretting over how Brand's looking, how Speights is looking, if Jason Smith is for real and if Sam really is passing well from the pivot. We have enough right pieces and a solid system to help us maintain, if not improve our standing from last season. It's going to be tougher sledding, not easier.

Jrue, in my view, is at this point a non-story and mainly pressed for the controversy juice squeezed earlier in the summer. Alright, so we've established this as a potential running theme for this season, guaranteed to get the natives buzzin and clickin up the page views. Fine. Next!

(grumble grumble gripe gripe)

At the risk of keeing this going, this is EXACTLY where I am as well. While I am happy they got him (happier than had we gotten Lawson...sorry, Real), I think the ink this kid is getting on the forum is WAY out of whack versus what the real story lines are (and you mentioned them all very well).

But, as I said above, I am ready to move on from this...

deepsixersuede on Oct 4 at 10:48

Brian, I have no problem with your topics or writing but to me the most interesting story going into this year is our new starting p.g.. Everything I here from our new coach is telling me they don!t want him to change much from what he is; they talked the other day about him giving the ball up, getting it back and attacking the basket.It scares me because L.Will. seemed to take the instant offense role to the extreme.If I was the coach the "being a distributor" role would be hammered into him first and gradually have him look for his points, similar to what Holliday!s mindset seems to be.We have a chance to have an interesting p.g. combo for the next 10 to 15 years with Lou eventually becoming our bench sparkplug again.I am curious to here what you guys think of having 2 different personalities handling the p.g. duties, I like the idea.


This isn't a discussion forum folks...it's a sixers blog...it's Brian's sixers blog. He can write about whatever he wants, if you don't like what he writes about, you don't have to read it, you can start your own blog, do your own research, take your own time...'push your own agendas'...no one forces you to read or comment here...watching people get bent out of shape out of some sort of idea of how this blog should be run is ridiculous. Brian is allowed to run the blog anyway he wants...seriously.

Plus - I mean he's going to have to watch his yankees choke in the playoffs - so feel bad for him a little :)

As for the Jordan quote - while it's a nice quote and everything - I'm not really sure how I feel about the first part...I'd need to know more about it - if he is passing to an open shooter with a better look then the contested look he has - who cares if he's passing it 'too much'. Personally, I've always wanted a pass first point guard (and I know Lou ain't gonna be it) on the sixers when they went to replace Andre Miller. A guy is who a guy is and there's only so much adjustment you can do to a guy before you 'ruin' what he is...I think that's what went/is going wrong with Louis Williams...the sixers trying to take him 'too much' away from what he is.

I hope Jordan isn't going to do that with Jrue, I hope I'm reading too much into the implication that he 'passes too much' - on a team with too many guys who shoot too much a guy who passes too much is a pleasant addition to me.

Real and Speightacular reply to John on Oct 4 at 16:05

Brian invites commentary, it's what helps keep the clickership up and feed his fams. It's about finding the right balance between too much heat and too little. And here's a tip for the blog's master irony monitor: you don't need to respond to a comment if you don't like it.

One other note before this becomes another theme going forward, unless you're referring to some other quote, Jordan actually said, "he loves to pass," not that he "passes too much," as you've quotified.

Now - if you're looking for a quote that seems a little out there :)

"In some ways, Elton reminds me of Willis Reed," Jordan said. "He's a good shot-blocker, good rebounder, good defender. He can play at the elbow and can play on the box. He's going to have so many different angles and spots on the floor and little jump shots that are going to be there for him. It's going to take him a while to find the niche in the offense. Forwards are going to run pick-and-rolls, though probably not him. Forwards are going to post up, and that's probably going to be a lot of him. He'll find his place."

Per Fagan:

" Jrue Holiday is struggling. He's not getting a ton of play in the scrimmages and when he does he is clearly off a beat on the pace/physicality. After practice, Jordan said basically that he's being hit hard with what being a rookie is all about (i.e. having his eyes opened to the pace of the NBA game). This is specifically noticeable because last season's rookie, Marreese Speights, earned playing time so quickly. Of course there were times Speights looked like a rookie, but rarely to the point where you thought it would impact his playing time. Jordan said Holiday will make a breakthrough soon and things will get easier. I'll keep you posted on such a breakthrough."

Although I guess you could put me in the pro-Jrue camp... this does not really surprise me or bother me. the kid is 19 and trying to be the PG of a new offense (for him and the whole team.) It would be great to hear that he is ready to contribute right away, but I'm not going to make a conclusions about him as a player until he is closer to 21.

Yeah, just saw that. It's the second blurb she's had in the past couple days, in the first she was saying they need to keep Singletary because Jrue looks so bad. Disappointing.

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