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PSA: The Ty Lawson Fan Club

JohnMagee on Nov 5 at 18:50

Not an inconvenience but the first thing that truly made me laugh all day long - just the title.

And thank you for your support

Thank you, Brian. All the more reason why I enjoy reading your posts.

Oh thank God.

I was one of those who wanted Lawson before the draft, but I do believe the team made the best decision since Jrue fell to us.

I sure don't want to see people making noise on random posts here every time Ty Lawson makes a basket.

hahahaha this is hilarious. well done brian.

Brian, How about Jeff Teague?

Only kidding...............

Thanks for your efforts!

Brian - do you think you could check your email, I sent in a tryout a couple weeks ago and you still haven't replied. Thanks!

Check your e-mail, Ryan.

I agree 100%. Nothing wrong with being a Ty Lawson fan (or a Tar Heel fan.) But he is not a Sixer, and unless there is some possible trade for him out there his success or failure is about as relevant as filling up posts with complaints about not drafting Rondo. Sure it has some relevance when measuring the teams draft success, but does not warrant a constant revistting.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I'm not innocent here, though, I played into it and sometimes I even enjoy the arguments. I just don't want any more posts hijacked with an old debate. If I'm feeling particularly argumentative, now there's a proper place for it so everyone not involved doesn't have to wade through it to get to the relevant stuff.

Real and Speightacular on Nov 5 at 22:53

LOL! Funny and appropriate.

i will say one thing; every kid thinks the treat that his/her friend is holding is DEFINITELY tastier than theirs. both might be identical but the allure of something see from afar is quite enchanting.

i'm sure he will be a good player.

Thank you, Brian.

Well done, Brian!!!

JohnMagee on Nov 6 at 9:28

One thing

there is something wrong with being a NOrth Carolina fan...

Well in the fun spirit of this thread, I'm here to tell you that Ty Lawson, the future of the point guard position, has done absolutely nothing in the first half of today's game besides commit a foul - yet, in a game where his team is trailing by 12, he has a +/- of +1 in 8 minutes. Ty Lawson - his mere presence makes his team win.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 6 at 22:49

And keeping with the fun, the mere presence no way relates to victory, BUT, if +/- is the barometer (which is useless and shouldn't be) then, that +18 sure is looking pretty good.

Real and Speightacular reply to Tray on Nov 7 at 8:17

Might as well finish off this line (geez, bringing him up prematurely can be dangerous)...

Guess coach threw him in with against the scrubs because he wound up with a decent line, 5-10 FG (11 pts), 2 boards, 2 assists (no turnovers) and a +18 on the night.

Is this thread going to be up for three years straight? Surely this won't be as itchy as a Rondo 'miss' but this could be death by 1000 cuts over time. I say the one year then let it die.

+18 when he was in, -26 when he wasn't. -26! That's a 44-point on-court/off-court differential. And while we're told Lawson has these defensive limitations, Curry fouled out in 21 minutes trying to guard either Eric Gordon or Baron Davis, I'm not sure which. Both had monster games. Curry, though, he made one of his five shots so at least he chipped in on the other end.

Zero turnovers for Jrue against the Nets tonight. He's a non-turnover machine!

Something interesting I've discovered about plus-minus, as measured on online box scores - if a player subs out in the middle of foul shots, the second foul shot, if made, won't count in favor of, or against, his plus-minus, even though in reality his being on the floor has nothing to do with the making of that shot, while his being on the floor may have had something to do with the fact that his teammate or opponent got fouled. He may even have done the fouling. Making that adjustment to Lawson's +/- tonight, Lawson has done next to nothing tonight in the first half (actually, he has a couple rare turnovers), but his +/- when in is -2, whereas his team's +/- with him on the bench is -8. Which is consistent with his outrageously high Roland Rating of +14.3, a rating higher than that of any Sixer and all but a handful of players in the league.

Yeah, that's always bugged me about +/-. In the rotation charts I do, I count free throws for/against the players who were on the court when the foul occurred.

Actually, I was looking through last night's game chart and I think ESPN calculates +/- the same way I do. Not 100% sure, need to look over a few other games to be certain.

JohnMagee reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 10:36

It's like not counting SF for BABIP - the ball is in play right? And something happens right? It's an out and should be counted so and when I dtermine a pitchers BABIP i count SF's as outs

And Denver, getting blown out again, plays Lawson a little over half the game. -19 in the half of the minutes he didn't play and -6 in the half he did. 10 pts on 3-7 shooting, 5 assists, 3 turnovers, and at one point scored on three straight possessions. The turnovers are a career high for him. Possibly his worst game yet.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 7 at 22:10

10 pts and 5 assts with 3 turnovers (one being a late travel in garbage time and another an at-the-basket strip by Teague, forget what the other one was) -- if that's his worst yet, I'll take it.

So the turnovers don't count because they were garbage time, but the shots made against the other team during garbage time do?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 7 at 22:31

Nitpicking:) He didn't make any in GT did he? Can't remember but I did see that late travel.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 8 at 18:38

Well actually the shots he made were in the third quarter, when they were within a dozen. The assists mostly came in garbage time.

eddies' heady's on Nov 7 at 22:46

On a serious note though, after the publicly stated looking for the first guard off the bench yesterday, then Ivey and Willie G getting those minutes, that was pretty disappointing in Jrue's case. Not distinguishing yourself from those two can't be good, no matter how you slice it. And I have confidence that it is warranted too, and not the staff just jerking him around.

eddies' heady's on Nov 8 at 18:20

"Again... one player is 22, the other 19. So you wanted the older guy because the Sixers are ready to contend right away? You can't compare a 19 year old and a 22 year old after 5 games in the NBA. Especially if you are a fan of one and have never seen the other play."

tk, the above is from you earlier today and since you went there unprovoked then I will now take the time to respond:

Taking a player based on age is silly and a foolhardy method. Just because player A is younger than player B doesn't exactly mean that player A will somehow be the better player. I didn't want the team to draft a guy based on when we may be ready to contend or his age. I wanted us to draft what I felt is, and will be, the better player. And, most importantly as stated before, the better fit with this current team and core. If a guy can make you better NOW and in the FUTURE then why wouldn't you take him? It sounds crazy to think you would draft a project (or as you say, a younger player) instead of a more ready player because you feel your team is a few years away from contention.

And for the millionth time, I am NOT comparing these two based off of a small sample of five pro games. My evaluation is from what I have seen of the two in college (20 games for Jrue, around 100 of Lawson). You and others feel they know the game well enough and know player's abilities. Well so do I. I have my opinion and others have their's. If my opinion isn't respected around these parts (which apparently it isn't) then it is no sweat off my back because I am still entitled to it. It's no problem if some disagree but there is absolutely no need to hold an opinion against someone personally. Because I feel a certain way about a decision this franchise made doesn't make me less of a man or passionate fan.

And please let this go for the record and always be referred back to; I dislike the UNC Tar Heels just as bad or worse than I do the Celtics (probably worse), so let's squash the assumptions that I am a 'fan' of Lawson, as has been referenced several times. I just know talent when I see it, no matter the college allegiance.

Real and Speightacular reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 10 at 9:14

Eddie, you sound like a guy who's expecting a little too much from the internet. I've been there. There's just some dudes who refuse to actually read closely what you've actually written because they get themselves so invested in being your enemy that what you say after a time doesn't even matter anymore. They'll simply invent things even when the truth is right there in the thread for anyone to see. You might think they'd be too embarrassed to invent shit, but that often plays in their favour since there's a lot of lazy people about who'd rather just take someone else's word for it than google/scroll things themselves.

You will become subject to personal attack and attempts to otherize if you don't get with the bully's program (or the sermon from the bullypulpit, depending on the proprietor). This should be just some tomfoolery, armchair make-believe and mostly fun, but some dudes take every position seriously -- a different opinion constitutes an affront to their ego and so they'll respond as if you're stealing away precious IQ points. The responses are irresponsibly, outlandishly mean-spirited if not plain infantile with projection as a typical weapon (some believe being crass adds IQ points when it only robs them of EQ, the silly gooses).

They are the reason why people with full lives, and an abundance of friends and loves in good old meatspace have a poor opinion of bloggers.

Continue if you like, but methinks you doth expect too much.

A bit back on topic...

A popular statistician who's often quoted around here had this to say about Lawson the other day (like any other expert, he's only quoted and lauded as an authority when he happens to agree with an opinion):

"Again, it’s early. But do you think decision-makers in Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia – the three teams that took a different point guard than Lawson last summer – are regretting their decision? If I understand human behavior, I would say no. ~ The Wages of Wins Journal: Feeling Lawson Regrets Yet?

p.s. one other possible interpretation re Jordan's announcement that he's waiting for a point guard to step up might be that it's his way of saying that he'd normally prefer to go with a steady vet but perhaps it's a shot across the bow to Ivey and Willie that he's willing to go with the rook if they don't do more. I'd normally agree with your interpretation Eddie (that it's likely Jrue who's lacking) -- and this is all we're doing here, remember? just speckoolatin our asses off -- but this is another valid way to look at it, too.

Today is not a good day for the Stephen Curry fan club. Curry, continuing to suck time away from the markedly more talented Anthony Morrow, is 0-2 at the line, 2-6 from the field, with 5 turnovers, 3 assists and 4 fouls, in a game where his team is somehow getting blown out by a Kevin Martin-less Kings squad. Curry, by the way, is the third-worst player on his team in plus/minus, while Morrow is the second best.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 9 at 0:02

Who? Curry?.... Where are the members of his fan club? Another thread for him?

Since this is quickly turning into the premature "I told you so" thread, thought I'd chime in on the Washington Wizards. 2-5 now with 4 consecutive losses. Arenas is back to his gunning ways.

JohnMagee reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 10:38

I find it surprising that people were so excited when they obtained two bench players and a guy who shoots more than iverson

With Jrue in the lineup +11. With Jrue on the bench -15.

He's starting to show that knack for attacking double teams, getting into a defense and setting up the right look for guys. You know, natural PG stuff.

I read a write-up comparing his STYLE to CP3. Saying physically they were night and day, but at least in HS Jrue probed and picked apart defenses in a similar fashion.

he is not a low risk/safe PG like Calderon or Snow. he's a pro-active creator who generates open looks by drawing the defense to him.

But to be successful in that role he needs to establish some things:
-That he is a threat to score
-That he won't make to many TO's (right now by underestimating defender's athleticism)
-Show he has the quickness and athleticism to break down NBA PG's

By the way, I never said Jrue wouldn't be a good player. I just said I'd rather pick Ty. No one's ever doubted Jrue's defense, energy, athleticism, etc. Curry, however, I never thought would be that great, and it was another bad night for the Curry fan club. His team shot 57%, 60% if you take his numbers out, but he went 2-8, 1-7 from inside the arc, couple turnovers. Did have 5 assists though. At this very early point in the season, Toney Douglas is looking better than him.

So he shot 100% from three? :)

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 12:57

No wait, 1-6 from inside the arc. 1-2 from three. A good percentage there, still.

Jesus, Morrow is unbelievable.

JohnMagee reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 12:23

Azuibuike or whatever FINALLY has a good game, the day I waive his ass

God i should have known better - the warriors are a friggin mess.

If you're looking to dump sam and take advantage of a team i bet you could get rid of sam and willie and still get some talent back from the warrios for the privilege of taking steven jackson off their hands...of course then you have to arrange for steven jackson to have an 'accident' - but there's some guys in south philly who will help out

That was the first guy I looked at for the post I wrote today, but Jackson's contract is just beyond insane. Jackson + Morrow for Sam wouldn't even be worth it.

JohnMagee reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 12:27

Oh - hi contract sucks - hence the 'acccident' in south philly that leads to retirment and insurance paying off the deal.

But the warriors probably have the largest collection of talent with no idea how to use it in the league.

Be interesting if you work out a 3 way with a team that actually WANTS jackson (some exist i'm sure)

And Curry's playing heavy minutes for a bad team. Shooting 45% from the floor, 45% from three, averaging 5.7 assists and 2.1 turnovers. That's not bad production from a rookie in those circumstances. Not his fault he's starting over Morrow.

JohnMagee reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 12:26

Tim Kwamakami points out in his blog posting (I follow some writers on twitter) than Monta Ellis said he and curry wouldn't work together - so that's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy :)

Yeah, I remember that from the preseason.

Morrow would probably be a perfect fit to play back there with Monta, who can't shoot the three.

Ty continues to have great +/- numbers (+9 when he was in the first half, -6 when he was out), and he continues to make threes - 2-3 thus far. One wonders, though, if his plus-minus is partly a function of the fact that Denver's second unit is just playing better than the starters (Chris Andersen, for instance, is a better player these days than Kenyon Martin), especially when they're matched up with other teams' second units.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 10 at 21:56

While I put absolutely no weight in +/- as a barometer, your mentioning of the Nugs second unit playing better than their starters sounds very similar to our Sixers at the moment. Jrue's effort and fiestiness was welcomed to see, so do we equate his +11 last night to the same mentioned above with Ty, with him going against the second unit and Goran Dragic in particular?

Sure he would not have done as well against Nash... but I felt Jrue was the most impactful player on the floor during his run. That's saying something for someone who has been buried on the bench.

The kid sort of took the game over on both ends and did not exactly back down to Hill or anyone else. i was surprised, and don't expect that type of play every night or against starters- but that is what we should be looking for in a few years. Sort of like how Speights abused 2nd teamers last year and now is just a beast regardless of who he faces.

1:2 assist to turnover ratio for Ty tonight. That's pitiful. Dalembert-like.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 23:12

Pitiful indeed. The impressive thing though about Ty to me is that he's yet to have anything you could call a bad game, or a game where he isn't productive. You rarely see a rookie, particularly a rookie point guard, who does something every night - usually the pattern is occasional flashes followed by stretches of non-contributive or bad play. Ty's already this fairly dependable role player on a very stacked and veteran team. Every night he plays his 20-some minutes, takes care of the ball, makes some shots, provides a nice change of pace. Maybe he'll just always be solid, but the learning curve's been unusually rapid so far.

So how would the 22 year old do right now on a non-vet laden Sixer team (Speight 21, Thad 21, Smith 22, Lou 22, etc.) I'm sure it would be a bit tougher task but it would be interesting.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 10 at 23:51

That 50% shooting overall and 66% from deep isn't too pitiful though. And one of your fav's in +/- at +11 ain't shabby either.

Real and Speightacular reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 0:47

and what was one of the glaring needs from last season? a guard who has a decent jumpshot, esp from deep. instead they went with a kid who would need a total overhaul on his jumper. mind you, for jrue, so far, so good...

75% from three for Jrue. Averaging 3.1 made threes/36 minutes.

An impressive 50% for Lawson, but only 1.4 made threes/36.

Looks like they made the right choice after all.

eddies' heady's reply to Real and Speightacular on Nov 11 at 9:21

Really? Is that fact or just speckoolation with the overhaul of Jrue's jumper? His form and mechanics look pretty much the same to me. And good at that. I especially like his knee-bend, which is the base anyway.

JohnMagee reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 9:41

Any evidence no matter how small sampled or unproven that Lawson was the better overall pick than Jrue - 100% accurate.

Evidence that says Jrue was a better pick than Lawson - 100% inaccurate

While you may put no credibility in +/-, people much more legitimate who know about basketball do put SOME credibility in it, so I'll apologize if I take nothing you say seriously since you have a point of view you don't think could possibly be wrong (about anything) - what's the point in debating with someone who doesn't think they're wrong, ever, no matter how much evidence that they are presented with.

Is speckoolation anything like speculation?

He's actually not disagreeing with me, he's disagreeing with R&S. He also happens to be right.

No one ever said they had to rework Jrue's jumper. In fact, they said his jumper was fundamentally sound and they expected him to be a very good shooter. All he needed was repetition.

JohnMagee reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 10:47

Doesn't matter who he replies to - the tendency is always the same...he's made his decision, and no matter how much information he's provided now or in the future it seems that he'll never change his mind...Holliday played amazing the last game I see no indication that the 'it's jrues fault he's not playing' thought process has changed.

He's complementing Jrue in this particular comment, though. At least give him credit for that.

Real and Speightacular reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 11:16

Not sure what you're saying there, Eddie--that Jrue's jumper was pretty darned good in college? A form may look pretty but if it doesn't result in ball in hoop (esp at a bad clip) then it needs a lot more work, yes? That's all I meant. We know that by senior year Ty's jumper was PDG. Just sayin.

If there's stats that say Jrue's jumper was near Ty's (or better), I withdraw the comment.

"Any evidence no matter how small sampled or unproven that Lawson was the better overall pick than Jrue - 100% accurate.

Evidence that says Jrue was a better pick than Lawson - 100% inaccurate"

And vice versa, right? It's the unfortunate nature of the thread. Friendly discussion drewlz, polarization rulez.

eddies' heady's reply to Real and Speightacular on Nov 11 at 20:57

His jumper in his freshman year looked to leave a lot to be desired, so no, I wasn't saying it was pretty good in college. A pretty form that doesn't result in made baskets doesn't necessarily mean it needs a lot more work either. Mostly, as has already been stated, repetition.

Really don't like to say whose jumper is better between two players because jumpshots are such a feel-and-rhythm type of thing that can come and go, which can lead to inconsistency.

Quick Wizards update for those believers out there:

Gilbert Arenas, 7/20 from the floor in 42 minutes. He did fill out the box score, though. 5 boards, 8 assists and 12 turnovers. Yup, Gilbert is all the way back and leading the Wizards to a sparkling 2-6 record.

Flip Saunders' solid coaching is really paying dividends for this Wizards squad. 40 minutes for DeShawn Stephenson, 10 minutes combined for Randy Foye and Nick Young.

This has been moved here from another thread. Written by R&S:

"He showed more in his 15 minutes of action on Monday than any other guard has shown off the bench at any point through the first seven games."

Well, not strictly true. I know we try not to look at Willie too hard, but he did put up a pretty nice line the other night vs Detroit....
in 23 mins, 13 pts (6/10 FG, 3 rebs, 4 assts, 0 TOs).

Then there's Ivey's game vs. the Nets. *shrugs* We're dealing with tiny samples, it'd be convenient if two of the guys just absolutely stunk out the joint each and every time they stepped toe on the court. But it's tricky stuff. Just about every coach likes to rely more on vets because they at least know what they're going to get more consistently (even if it's not likely to get a lot). Lawson is making Karl lose sleep in Denver because he's consistently doing more than his vet Carter, a known quantity. Fans are always excited to their new guy play, coaches need dependability.

So far though, no doubt, Jrue's making his case and should be giving Jordan cause for furrowed brow.

I think it's premature to make conclusions about how good an NBA shooter Lawson may be, and beyond premature to say anything about how good a shooter Holliday will be.

JohnMagee reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 12:20

I'ts premature to make any conclusions about who was the better draft pick

Then again, people have been making said conclusions since before the draft :)

My bad, I thought this was the thread where sample size doesn't matter.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 16:24

Oh no, I'm not saying it's some kind of certainty that Ty will be a great NBA player. I think the most I've said is that he's the most NBA-ready of the point guards in the draft, which isn't too premature to make claims about, because all NBA-ready means is whether from the first day you're ready. I do think initial signs are pretty encouraging. David Thorpe, for what he's worth, has Ty #1 in his rookie rankings. As far as Holliday goes, I don't mean to disparage him at all, it's very possible he'll be a really good player. I do mean to disparage Curry a bit because I don't see him being that effective a scorer on the NBA level, I do think turnovers will be a problem, and I've never bought into his being the most incredible shooter in the world.

Real and Speightacular on Nov 11 at 13:28

Amazing. I had exactly one line on Lawson re how he's making things tough for his coach (who has already admitted that he's losing sleep over it). One line as part of a larger point and looka all this chatter. You were right to plop it here, B. The sensitivities over this topic is beyond measure.

Well Real, observing from afar, it seems that the majority of the loyals (Tray, tk, eddie, yourself, and Brian) are having some good natured fun with this permanent front-page thread. Just a little I-poke-u, u-poke-back ribbing going on. It just looks like Mr. Internet-tough-guy (we all know whom I'm referring), front-seat-shotgun-rider, spell-checker-extraordinaire appears to be out of school today for Vet's day.

You guys carry on, it does benefit my daily grinning, and besides, it's not hard to bypass the hot air spewing.

Real and Speightacular reply to jsmoove on Nov 11 at 16:53


You know what's even 'worse' than my suppposed whatever the fuck you guys are talking about

The fact that you seem to care so much about it...what does that make you?

And Curry has finally played his way out of the starting rotation although, in fairness, he never should have been thrown into it anyway. Tonight midway through the fourth quarter, two points, 3 turnovers, 2 assists. GS is -14 when he's on the floor, just -1 when he's off. All Golden State needs to do is never play Curry and all their problems will be solved! (Kidding, kidding, but they could be a lot better if they gave Randolph and Morrow more minutes and Curry less.)

Ty, for his part, had 5 assists, 2 steals, a turnover and a bucket in 21 minutes tonight. (He did, it's true, shoot 1-5 - and Billups compared him to Brevin Knight today, which is somewhat damning praise. Maybe he feels threatened!) The last 3 assists came in an 8-1 run that cut Milwaukee's 4th quarter lead from 9 to 2. Alas, Lawson was pulled from the game for the last 4 minutes, and Denver lost. For the game, a +/- of +1; when off the court, the team was -7.

We'll have to see if Maynor gets any love after tonight. Its his chance to shine.

Maybe Curry is sick and no one's bothered to report it, but otherwise it would seem that Nelson has just decided not to bother playing him tonight. A strategy which is currently resulting in a 10-point lead Ton the road (against New York).

Tray reply to Tray on Nov 13 at 20:45

Curry is not going to get a DNP-CD tonight. He played for the last minute of the half when Ellis picked up his third foul, did nothing.

eddies' heady's on Nov 14 at 0:18

One game holds no weight in the next statement, but, I liked me some Maynor during the draft too. Not a bad showing tonight. He plays with acclimation when he's on the floor.

But the flipside could be, it was against you-know-who.

Ty Lawson is raping the Lakers in every which way right now.

eddies' heady's on Nov 14 at 1:16

And quite a few general managers are going to feel raped too.

Lawson was +7 tonight, but the team was much better when he was on the bench (+19).

Jrue, on the other hand, was 0 tonight, the rest of the team was -22 when he was on the bench...ah fuck it. Even this thread can't cheer me up.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 14 at 9:51

In Cris Carter fashion - c'mon man!

But really, you aren't the only one pained. Suffering is rampant here too.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 14 at 12:41

It's true that the team was just as good or better when he was out, but in the first half their offense looked way better with him running it than Billups. Seriously, Billups either looks for his own shot or dumps it off to somebody and leaves the picture; Lawson was always creating and could have had a dozen assists if some of his passes' recipients hadn't missed layups, wide-open threes, gotten hacked and sent to the line, etc. His shot looks weird, but seems to be pretty accurate, he just blows by defenders, hustles after loose balls, and on defense, he's going to get shot over by Farmar, but he played pesky defense on Fisher and seemed to make the correct rotations. He also dunked over Mbenga, and no turnovers.

eddies' heady's on Nov 14 at 18:25

On this here day, one thing is positive - I must admit, I sit back and wallow in much glee with all the love Ty Lawson is receiving around this blog. Amazing what 8 or 9 games can do instead of five.

Small sample size still yet, but Ty will just as surely keep the hits a comin'... Keep on ballin' boy... I've got the haters too. No sweat....

eddies' heady's on Nov 14 at 23:37

And with fun spirit I write:

Eric Maynor tonight on the tail-end of a back-to-back, had 24 pts on more than 50% shooting, 4 dimes and 3 boards with 3 turnovers in a whopping 41 minutes. Not bad for a rook.

Hey, could be worse. We could be the 2-7 Wizards who traded away the #5 pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye because they were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ready to compete right now.

My fantasy team loves me some Brandon Jennings as a rookie PG. 55/5/5 with 7 3s. Sure the Bucks are bad and GS plays no D, but still...

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 16 at 22:44

...I just love how everyone thinks Ty Lawson is ready... Ahhh, the memories...or maybe the archives....

JohnMagee reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 17 at 0:30

Settle down rickypryor

Sounds like Lawson is in a great situation in Denver. Since Philly is rapidly become Clippers east, I'd say things worked out well for him.

Curry had a nice game today - played nearly the whole game (Watson and Azubuike are hurt/swine flu'd out) and had 14, 5 and 7 on 6-9 shooting (just 2-6 from three though). Ty, who today was the subject of a ridiculous "will he singlehandedly put Denver over the top" piece on ESPN's First Take - even I don't think that - had 4 points, 6 assists and 2 steals in 24 minutes. 3 turnovers. +10 when on, +8 when off. Not an incredible game, but yet another good one in what so far has been a season of remarkably consistent play.

6 turnovers for Curry tonight, but 13 points (4-10 shooting, 1-4 from three) and 7 assists, along with 4 steals.

A quick Washington Wizards update. Allowed 127 points to the Thunder tonight in a delightful loss. 7/20 from the floor for $100M man, Gilbert Arenas. 3-8 on the season now.

Ty Lawson with a pretty -13 tonight in the first half. Getting TORCHED by Sebastian Telfair.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 21 at 23:47

Ended up with 12 pts in only 18 minutes and -4 for the game. 75% overall from the floor with 100% from three and 100% from the line. Only one turnover, not bad. Telfair only ended up with 8 pts, not sure about that torched.

eddies' heady's on Nov 21 at 23:51

Another guy that looked ready tonight was Darren Collison. 22 pts and 11 asts, 8-13 from the field with no misses from three or the line, but did have 5 turnovers. Big win for NO over the hot Hawks.

eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 21 at 23:56

Oh, and another guy I wanted us to get a second round pick and take was Marcus Thornton. He wasn't too shabby either. 9-16 from the floor. We could desperately use shooting like that.

Some updates. Curry had a nice night in the box score the other day - 13, 6 and 8, and uncharacteristically just one turnover, but he did foul out and just shot 3-9. Fouls have been a big problem, he's averaging 3.4 per and has picked up 4 or more in 6 of the games he's played. Lawson's had a couple of quiet but effective games, scoring 12 on 3-4 shooting with one turnover against the Clippers, and 9 on 3-5 shooting with 3 assists and 0 TO's against the Bulls tonight. In tonight's game they were +24 with him on the court and -5 with him off.

You do realize Curry's shooting numbers are very impressive, right? 47% from the field, 43% from three. He's averaging 2.7 turnovers/36 minutes, but his assist-to-turnover ratio is better than 2 to 1, and 4.1 fouls/36 minutes isn't exactly crazy.

Actually, all of his numbers are pretty impressive playing heavy minutes for a bad, dysfunctional team in the middle of a mutiny.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 24 at 23:01

He's shot the ball well and he's been a pretty decent passer, but the fouls and turnovers are a big issue. I certainly don't see whatever you saw in him. Tonight, for instance, 4 turnovers and 3 fouls in the first half. (Though to be fair, only 4 turnovers and 5 fouls by the end of the game.) He reminds me of Kevin Martin, if Martin were a less gifted scorer, a better passer, and an equally challenged defender.

Another 3-9 Wizards update. Here's a quote from fearless leader Gilbert Arenas:

"I converted my game to try to get people involved, but at the end of the day, to be honest, this is the same team since three years ago. We added a couple of pieces, but everybody else is basically the same player. I'm sitting here thinking 'Do I have to go in attack mode like I was two years ago to get us over this hump?' I hope not. I hope we're strong enough mentally that we can get over this."

Gilbert sounds like such a selfless guy, right? I mean, he's converted his game to get other guys involved. Of course, his usage rate is the highest of his career at 32.4%, and he's averaging 19 FGA/36 minutes. Also the highest of his career. Should be fun to see how bad they are when he decides he needs to take even more shots, huh?

In the first half, Curry's 1-7 with 2 turnovers and 2 fouls. 3 assists, though, with that Bob Knight approved best passing ability the college game's ever seen.

Lawson, tonight, went 8, 5, 6 and 2 turnovers on 3-9 shooting. Made one of his two threes, and continues to shoot those at 50%. Curry's now up to 5-16 for the game, with 5 assists, but he's also up to 6 turnovers, tying the career high he set a couple games back and upping his average to 30th in the league. Just three fouls, which is below his 16th-in-the-game average - an average which leads all guards in the league.

And tonight our hero had 6 assists and 0 turnovers in 17 minutes. He also had three offensive rebounds and a bucket.

Curry's admittedly strong shooting numbers dropped with tonight's effort (5-15, 1-5) to 44% from the field and 39% from three; over the past two games 10-31 and 2-9. But, 8 assists, just 1 turnover, and 0 fouls, after averaging about 4 turnovers and 5 fouls per the last three games. So that part of his game is looking more under control. On Tuesday Dell Jr. and The Great One will play each other, so those of us who enjoy obsessively litigating the 2009 Draft have that to look forward to.

A bad night for Ty - 3 assists, 4 turnovers (the latter tying his career high) in 17 minutes. The minutes seem to be decreasing a bit for him. He was 3-4 from the field though, increasing his shooting percentage to 51.4%. I wonder if Lawson couldn't ultimately become a Tony Parker with better passing numbers. Surprisingly though, when you look at his shot charts, the high efficiency isn't a product of his being an especially good finisher - he's just 46% right around the basket - but of shooting 60% between the basket area and the arc. Which is absurdly high and probably not very sustainable.

Jennings and Lawson are both going to come back down to earth in a big way. Neither can keep shooting jumpers at these absurd percentages. Jennings can finish inside, though.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 0:03

Well Jennings is already coming back to earth - he's 20 for his last 69, and has seen his percentage from the field on the season drop to 43% as a result. But as far as finishing inside though, Jennings converts at a lower rate around the basket than Lawson. Just 43%. To put that in perspective, Lou Williams is shooting 65% around the basket, and Johnny Flynn is shooting 55% there. Jennings definitely has potential, but his hot start was a bit of a mirage. He has a long way to go before he proves that he's more than a rich man's Sebastian Telfair.

what are the free throw rates for each guy?

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 3:25

I don't know where you look up rates and such, but on pure raw numbers Jennings gets to the line the most.

DenverNuggetsDrownClown on Dec 2 at 0:15


DenverNuggetsDrownClown on Dec 2 at 0:17

Ty lawson so sick.
And good %.
I cant belive he is shooting so good.
So sad So sad at least A.I will bring some light

Predictably, the Curry-Lawson matchup went better for Lawson, who had 5 boards, 5 assists, 0 turnovers, and 13 points on 5-7 shooting in 24 minutes. He made all three of his jump shots. According to hoopdata.com, he's shooting 70% from 10-15 feet and 55% from 16-23 feet. Which, as big of a booster I am of the guy, cannot possibly continue. Curry was 4-14 and 2-6 for 10 in 41 minutes, but he did have 6 assists and just 1 turnover. He's 16 for his last 50 shots for the field and 5 for his last 17 threes, and his shooting percentages have now dropped to 42.6% and 38.8%.

Thanks for that site, hadn't heard of it before. F Lawson, by the way.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 2 at 16:20

Yeah, it does seem to be a good site, better than 82games's shot breakdown (never been clear on what they mean by "close" vs. "jump"). You know, regardless of what you think of Lawson vs. Holiday, you have to at least admit that Iverson would not be here today had we picked Lawson.

Hmmn. I don't think it's a safe assumption that Jordan would've given Lawson the minutes Karl has given him. Not sure if he hates Jrue personally, or just hates all rookies.

I will admit it's a lot less likely that Iverson's here right now, but there's a decent chance we'd be in the same boat. Lawson does seem to be in love with his jump shot, though. Which Jordan would admire.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 2 at 19:50

Are you saying he's trigger-happy? I don't see that. He seems to be to be a very unselfish PG. Besides, he can't miss right now so if that were the case it'd be quite understandable.

Not necessarily trigger happy, just content taking jumpers and probably for good reason considering his conversion rate near the hoop.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 3 at 15:55

Yeah, he plays to his strengths. Looking at this shot location data, though, you see some shocking stuff. If you look at players who attempt one or more 16-23 footer a game, the second hottest player in the league at that shot is Speights at 67%. And Luther Head's #1 at 71%. And then it's Nate Robinson at 61%, and then Iverson at 60%. Telfair's shooting well from there, as is Tyrus Thomas. Willie Green's up there pretty high at 53%. What this mostly shows, I think, is that we've still played very few games.

Can't believe we're almost a quarter of the way through.

By the way, how much would Eddie Jordan love Steph Curry? Check out his numbers on jumpers.

Great site. look at the Sixers team shooting stats.

Thad 20% on jumpers 16-23 feet.

WG 32% eFG% on 3's (how is that even possible?)

Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 3 at 18:58

I guess if you shoot 21% on threes? They only get prorated 50%. Iverson has some experience with that kind of EFG on threes.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 3 at 19:00

Think he'd love Lawson a little more. How about Speights though? At least that's one good player Eddie won't freeze out.

DenverNuggetsDrownClown on Dec 2 at 22:50

At least we didnt have the chance to pass on Jennings.

DenverNuggetsDrownClown on Dec 2 at 23:37

Its not often their are any good pg's availble at 17 or 18. So dont feel bad. Beside their were plenty other teams that passed on him too. And if you have watched the summer league you would have seen that he had been blocked several times a game. But it looks like he has adjusted

Holiday will probebly pan out in a year or two just give him some time. I just red a Knicks blog and they were even beating them selves up for not picking lawson. I would have thought they would have been mad about not picking jennings.

Curry has started to shoot the ball well again, although the threes aren't falling so much, but the turnovers and fouls are back in effect. Four of both tonight, which is exactly what he's averaging in each category the past four games. During the same stretch, he's averaged just 2.75 assists per. Lawson followed up the game against us with a very quiet effort, but it was the 5th consecutive game he turned the ball over just one time or fewer. So if nothing else, he'll be an extremely fast Kevin Ollie.

Lawson, as you may have heard, had his first bad game ever (no points, 3 assists, 4 turnovers, only attempted one shot though). Curry, tonight, had 0 turnovers and 0 fouls, but just 1 assist and 6 points on 3-9, 0-3 shooting. From three he's just shooting 35.4% now, which is something like league average, not one of the best shooters of all time territory.

Our hero Tywon has recently been going through a low-playing-time, low-statsheet-contributions stretch. Hasn't been actively bad, but just hasn't been doing anything. Tonight, however, 6 assists, 2 steals and one turnover in his 21 minutes. +9 when on the floor and +1 off. 3-8 from the floor and 6 for his last 18, so maybe the torrid shooting is finally cooling off. Curry, tonight, picked up 4 fouls in the first half, now up to 5 with 4-11 shooting and 0-2 from beyond the arc. Just 1 turnover though, and 3 assists. -12 on the floor and dead even off, with the Spurs.

Meanwhile, Jrue has 15 assists, 5 steals only 4 turnovers and a +/- of +20 in his two starts since returning to the starting lineup. Not to mention exemplary defense against a string of solid perimeter players, Westbrook, Monta, now Mo Williams and Delonte West as well.

Billups got hurt, so we may get a chance to see what Lawson can do with starters, against starters.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 18 at 19:22

I could be making this up, but I don't actually ever recall me being critical of the Holiday pick. Do you? I've always felt like Holiday had a very good shot at being a better player, but that Ty was basically a sure thing. And given our somewhat bleak short-term future, Holiday was probably the better pick.

I didn't accuse you of that, did I?

I will note that even with Billups out Karl doesn't trust Lawson to start, even though he's 23 and "the most nba-ready point" in the draft. In fact, his contributions have been minimal in Chauncey's absence.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 27 at 13:14

Until he started starting and they stopped being minimal (see the 16 points on 7-11 shooting, 6 rebounds, 5 assists game in 25 minutes against the Hawks). Meanwhile, Stephen 'Grabass' Curry's ascended to 14th in the NBA in fouls per game. The next guard is Stuckey at 44th. He's committed 4 fouls or more in 6 of the last 7 games, 9 of the last 11. He's shooting better though lately.

Tray reply to Tray on Dec 27 at 22:32

And tonight with another 16 points against the Mavs on 6-11 shooting, 3 boards, 4 assists, 2 TO's, 2 steals, 29 minutes.

1-3 w/ Lawson as the starter, huh?

outclassed by Beno Udrih, couldn't stop Jose Barea, he was so bad against Memphis they could only keep him on the floor for 17:58, had to use Anthony Carter for 34 minutes off the bench.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 30 at 5:12

Beno's having a nice year and scored 17 points on 17 shots, not a good night, and otherwise Lawson had a better game... Barea scored 13 points against him and averages 10, not exactly a disaster. As far as running the offense goes, they're averaging 104 a game in his 4 starts, which is just off a tick - the problem over this stretch has been their giving up 104 or more 3 out of the 4 games, and it's not like it's the opposing point guards that have been killing them in these losses. Against Sacramento Nocioni scored 21 on 7 shots; against Dallas Drew Gooden went 8-8. Against Atlanta Bibby was pretty much the only Hawk who had a bad night besides Maurice Evans, and in the Memphis game, where Lawson was admittedly a non-factor, Conley struggled, but Zach Randolph had 32 and 24. I think that, yes, Denver is a better team, offensively, with their All-Star point guard and second leading scorer, but not a vastly better one, and defensively they haven't been good over this stretch but it's hard to see that Lawson's the reason.

Yeah, having a pint-sized point who can't stop penetration usually has nothing to do with poor defensive performances. You're right.

Tonight Curry came out late in the first quarter after fouling Rondo three times, allowing him to score a dozen points, and going 0-4 from the field, and has yet to return, not even after halftime. (Possibly because Watson came in and stole the ball six times in the first half.) The team's + 21 since he left the floor; -16 when he was on it. Rondo's scored just 5 since. Lawson's having a bad (5-13) night shooting the ball, but did have 4 boards, 6 assists and 2 steals to 1 turnover.

Tonight Curry was again benched for most of the second half and essentially the whole fourth quarter; in his 23 minutes he had 4 turnovers, 3 fouls, 3 assists, and 15 points on 10 shots. -7 when he was on and +1 when he was off - against the Lakers.

In tonight's tale of two point guards (or rather, one point guard and a small two who masquerades as one), Lawson led the Melo/Billups-less Nuggets to an easy win over Utah, on Utah's home floor. Lawson had 23 points on 9-14 shooting, with 9 assists, 3 steals, 3 turnovers. Deron Williams has scored 16 with 6 assists. Stephen Curry, on the other hand, spent his first quarter giving up 13 points to Andre Miller, who suddenly rediscovered his offensive game, only to immediately cease scoring once Curry spent most of the second quarter on the bench. Upon his return, he fouled Martell Webster twice in 2 minutes, and now has 4 fouls in just 15 minutes of play, along with 2 turnovers, 7 points, and just 1 assist.

Ty followed up his dissection of us with a 21 point, 8 assist game/win against Golden State, again without Melo. Curry had a great night shooting the ball (10-13, 6-6) and even had 6 assists and only 2 turnovers/3 fouls. Lawson nearly as efficient (8-12, 3-5), and unlike Curry, got to the line 4 times. And he's averaged 22 points and 9 assists against 2 turnovers over the past 3 games, and is 25-39 (64%) from the field over that stretch. A pretty impressive little streak for Lawson after some early struggles as the starter. Billups may be back Friday.

Well, you kind of expected both of them to go off, considering they were "guarding" each other, right?

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 11:05

I really don't think Ty's so awful defensively. Did Lou go off against him, did Iverson? Obviously doesn't match up so well against the big guards, but I don't think he's bad covering the smaller ones. As for Ty on offense, sure, there are players capable of shutting him down, but if you're good enough to carve up all the bad or uncommitted defenders in the league, you're going to be pretty good.

So Curry qualifies as a big guard and that's why he carved Ty up?

And as for Lou and Iverson carving him up, when was the last time the Sixers attacked a mismatch?

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 23:15

Curry had a nice night, got hot. 6-6 from three. I mean, if you want to take that as proof he's a bad defender, I could say that he's good because Bibby scored just 4 points against him on 2-8 shooting a few games back. Curry, tonight, fouled out in 30 minutes guarding Johnny Flynn and Ramon Sessions, moving to twelfth in the league in fouls per game; strangely, though, they shot a combined 2-15. So I guess Curry's now a good defender (although the six FTM on fouls he committed and repeatedly leading his team into the penalty didn't help). And on top of that stellar defense, he scored 16 on 11 shots and only turned the ball over once. The fouls are pretty ridiculous though.

I know you enjoy ripping on Curry, but at what point are you going to admit he's having a pretty nice rookie season under tough circumstances. Shooting 45% from the floor, 43% from three, playing more than 30 minutes/game. His rebounding, assist and steal numbers are all impressive. He's cut down on his turnovers. Coming into tonight he was averaging 3.8 fouls/36 minutes, three sixers are averaging more than that, so I think your 12th in the league ranking is off. Can you provide a link?

I am surprised this thread continues to be active.

Anyone think Ty Lawson could've manned up on Chris Paul for a decisive fourth quarter? OK, anyone think Lawson could've done it three years ago when he was 19? Yeah, me neither.

How many years do you suppose it will take before Holiday can score 67 points in 3 games on 64% shooting? Or even 45% shooting?

How many players in the league are capable of scoring 67 points in 3 games on great shooting percentages? Maybe 50? How many players in the league are capable of defending Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Brian Westbrook etc. on a nightly basis and keeping them under control? Maybe 2?

By the way, the Sixers have 4 guys capable of doing what Lawson just did: Iguodala, Thad, Speights and Lou. Three of them could do it in exactly the same way, by scoring efficiently and playing no defense.

It took Jrue about 10 months to get 65 points in a three-game span on 54% shooting. He also chipped in 27 assists, 9 boards, 5 steals and a block over the three-game stretch.

So Lawson came back from his injury and had a nice little night. Curry is starting to play really well, 26, 10 and 6 on 18 shots today, 21, 7 and 5 on 15 shots against Cleveland, see some of the plays he made in this game,* but he does have 15 turnovers and 15 fouls in his last 4 games. In fact, against Milwaukee (a game in which Jennings shot the ball well for the first time in weeks), he fouled out and Golden State was left with only 4 eligible players, forcing the refs to invoke some little-known rule where Curry got to keep playing at the cost of techs if he committed a 7th foul. He's now 9th in the league in fouls per, which is truly special for a guy of his size.

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAA3sMcOmuE

Curry would literally be a perfect fit for this team if they could add him now. Holiday, Curry, Iguodala, Brand, Dalembert.

One guy to hide defensively, but he brings a ton to the table in the biggest area of need for the team, shooting, and he can make plays for his teammates as well. As opposed to two guys to hide who really can't shoot it. Playing Holday/Iguodala/Curry at the same time would give you two superior defenders out there, and they're both versatile enough to take whichever two matchups are the toughest on the perimeter.

Curry's going to get exposed playing next to Ellis, Morrow, Maggette etc on the perimeter in GSW.

Oh well. I'd trade Thad for him in a heartbeat.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 19 at 19:39

One problem is that he is a bit of a turnover machine. You might say 2.6 TOPG isn't much for a starting point guard these days, and you'd be right, but the guy doesn't actually have the ball in his hands much. Monta brings it up just as often. When Curry does bring it up, he usually dumps it off right away. And it's not like he uses many possessions either. Hoopdata says he has the third highest turnover rate among point guards, after Jamaal Tinsley and Goran Dragic (I don't count Livingston, Mardy Collins, and Mike Wilks).

He's young and at least nominally he's the point guard for that team. Ballhandling responsibilities would be shared by Iguodala/Holiday on this fictitious team, so I think they'd be less of a concern. It may also make a difference if he played for a team that valued possessions a little more.

DenverNuggetsDrownClown on Jan 23 at 3:58

Looks like the Pacers are mad that they didnt pick Lawson also. I love it

32 points on 11/21 from the floor for Curry tonight with 2 boards, 7 assists, 4 steals and only 2 turnovers.

Curry has started to play really well. Lawson's minutes are dropping. And we may have to make this the Darren Collison thread. What does he have, 41 assists the last three games?

And in today's action Lawson gets the start and has 20 on 11 shots through three quarters, 1 turnover, Darren Collison leads his team to a road win over Charlotte with an efficient 24, 5 and 4 effort, 2 turnovers, and Curry had a great first quarter but had to leave the game due to picking up three fouls. Curry is really transforming the game; usually the only players you see who have to leave for foul trouble in the first quarter are guys like Dwight Howard. On a broader note, though, one can wave the success of guys like Lawson, Collison, Brooks away and say that players like them are common - and common they are. But just because they're common doesn't mean that they're not something that every team needs in this era of quick scoring point guards, and our closest thing to a Lawson or Brooks is Lou Williams, who isn't good.

And last night Lawson had 13, 5, 7 and 1 turnover on 6-8 shooting, and tonight Darren Collison had 25 points, 9 assists and 10 turnovers on 10-16 shooting. And Curry will need to score 50 in Monta and Maggette's absence if Golden State is to win. So far he has 11 in 7 minutes. Should fouls become an issue, his backup is Coby Karl, George Karl's son. If Golden State gets the first pick, what would they do? Keep it and deal Curry? Trade it for... could they somehow work a sign and trade for Amare Stoudemire? I've never understood how trading picks works under the cap rules.

Curry finished with a triple double. 36 points (on 22 shots), 10 boards, 13 assists, 3 steals, 6 turnovers. In a win over the Clippers.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 11:01

And his customary 4 fouls. The 6 turnovers are pretty forgivable when you consider how much he had the ball. Yeah, he might turn out to be a pretty good player.

An interesting line for Curry, 11 points on 5-21 shooting (1-10 from three), 10 rebounds, 8 assists, 4 turnovers, and 5 fouls. He's now 8th in the league in fouls. I saw his fourth - he started beating up Derek Fisher, or trying to anyway, 28 feet from the basket for no reason. Then on his fifth he hammered Fisher with one of his frail elbows.

They give you six fouls for a reason. I'm still bitter we couldn't put together a package to get that #5 pick from WAS.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 11:25

Yeah, they give you six fouls so everyone doesn't foul out of the game. If you keep sending people to the line, it doesn't help your team.

Curry's fouls are the least of GSW's defensive problems.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:49

I suppose a bigger problem is his inability to guard opposing point guards with or without fouling. Today he has 15 on 8 shots and 10 assists at the half. Three turnovers, two fouls. Watson has 23, 5 and 5, 0 turnovers. Just 10 shots. I'm not sure which one is playing off the ball these days. Oh, and the latest rookie point guard to the party, Holiday's ex-teammate, had 24 and 9 assists, 2 turnovers. 9-23 shooting though. Quite a draft for that position. Ty didn't even make the rookie-sophomore game.

13, 6, 7 and 10 turnovers for Curry, 18 (on 7-13 shooting), 13, 12 and 8 turnovers for Collison. Both shot the ball okay. Lawson had 6 and 3 assists with 1 turnover in his 14 minutes.

I've actually seen Lawson a couple times over the past couple of weeks and to me he just seems too risk averse. Meaning, he won't take a shot unless he's pretty sure he's going to make it. He won't make a pass unless he's absolutely sure it's going to get there, etc. To an extent, this is good, but it can also be very limiting.

Tray reply to Brian on Mar 3 at 22:49

Maybe this is coaching because he wasn't playing like that early in the season. I wonder, by the way, if we should turn this into the "Jrue Holiday's More Talented College Teammate Fan Club" thread. For the month of February, 22 points on 49% shooting, 8 assists (and 4 turnovers), and the last two games 10 and 15 and 17 and 14.

Nah, I think it'd be more appropriate to call it "The guys who are several years older than Holiday, and much less talented fan club."

Tray reply to Brian on Mar 4 at 16:23

You think Curry's much less talented? I myself have even become a Curry fan.

Curry's a much better shooter/scorer than Holiday will ever be. Collison and Lawson are just older.

16 points on 12 shots, and 20 assists for Collison along with good defense on Curry, holding him to a 5-13, 12 pt. night. Game before that he scored 32 on 14-19 shooting.

The one negative I read about Ty last year is the following. It looks like maybe the 76ers did not make a mistake. The latest on Ty:

Lawson hurting, too
AM ETTy Lawson | Nuggets Top Email The injury news surrounding the Nuggets focuses on Kenyon Martin, but rookie point guard Ty Lawson has been out as well. Lawson has an injured shoulder and he's not sure when he'll play next.

"It's day to day now," Lawson told The Denver Post. "It doesn't hurt a lot, I'm moving it now, there's just one spot (in my shoulder) that catches every time I dribble and make a move. So I'm trying to work it out. ... Once it stops catching, then I'll be able to play."


This should allow you to settle the Lawson debate:


Jrue is ranked 59, Lawson is no where to be found.

eddies' heady's reply to DeanH on Apr 18 at 23:02

Sort of like Jrue is nowhere to be found now while Lawson had a rather nice playoff premier with 11, 6, and zero turnovers?

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