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At Least They Made It Interesting

i'm over this team. I'm past my threshold of how bad i thought they would do....

good look all you fans, i'm depressed out.

bon chance

This game was the one that pushed you over the edge?

Eric reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 7:30

wasn't this game as a definite point...more like the amalgamation of all the games so far. Alot of ups but more downs...been a few years of this same pattern...

what is more depressing is this team has the potential on paper..but always something makes things go wrong. Yes it happens to all teams...but it's about the only consistent thing that happens for this team. I Love iggy, but his scoring is really inconsistent...and wtf is happening with thad??

also over the past years, we've always been not bad enough to land a top 10 pick, and not good enough to advance past the first round...

i just can't take the disappointment anymore...

sorry guys

"One quick word on your player of the game, Elton Brand. He's back. I'm convinced."

It's conceivable, but do acknowledge that if he weren't a Sixer, were not a player you were actively rooting for, you would wait much longer than 3 games to pronounce him back. Imagine he were Jermaine O'Neal. Actually, you don't even have to imagine, look at Jermaine O'Neal's game log. He started the season with two consecutive 22 and 12 games and shot, in them, a combined 17-25. Since, he's averaged 12 and 6. Now, after you saw those first two box scores, did you entertain any thoughts that Jermaine O'Neal was back? I'm sure some Heat fans did, but I'm sure you didn't. Brand just might be back, but a few games isn't much of a basis to be sure of that.

I'm not claiming to be an unbiased observer at all. Looking at it from your perspective, have you been impressed?

Apathy. Thats how I feel about this team. I barely watch any games because the result is always the same.
Less than average team putting up a "good effort" against elite teams, barely beating rebuilding or franchise disaster teams(nets, knicks) and losing to everyone else. All the teams you may mention before a game against the sixers as inferior or just not that good winds up beating our ass. (grizzlies anyone ?)
The sixers are one of the 5 worst teams in the league, are maxed out on their cap and are not rebuilding. This team was supposed to be a top 3 team in the eastern conference...THIS YEAR. I'm near Philly and I can tell u this town is a Eagles/Phillies/Flyers/Temple college ball town before the sixers. No one talks about this team on sports radio,they get no respect on espn, they are basically a non entity in this league. I HAD a lot of respect for Ed Stefanski...but maybe it was all the people around him in New Jersey and not HIM. Because the losing culture of this team has not changed, its only gotten worse. If you listen closely, you can hear Billy King laughing his ass off.

deepsixersuede on Nov 22 at 9:13

Individually there has been improvement;L.Will. [under control]; Iggy [better jumper]; Elton [looks healthy]; Carney[ definite factor at both ends];Marreese [rebounding better];J.Smith [looks healthy and very active; E.Jordan [slight improvement the past week ]. But it is all about effort and teamwork and I hope the offense does come together by the allstar break.Watched Memphis game twice, it had to be the defensive end our coach ranted about [guys on their own,not helping each other] so that has to improve but after the last 2 seasons [good 2nd halves], I can!t give up on this group.

deepsixersuede on Nov 22 at 9:50

It looks like the bench roles are starting to be defined; J.Smith is a good energy guy who does the little things well [hard fouls, doubleteams,screening];Carney is actually rebounding the last 2 games and looks active defensively; and hopefully Jrue can win the backup p.g. job from Willie and Royal by the 2nd half of the year.

While I am encouraged by the play against Cleveland I still am having a hard time getting over the loss to Memphis. And I know some guys had bad games but I lay that one on the coach to have as much responsibility as the players for that loss. If the players were truly "splintered" as he said that is the coach's fault.How about more in game adjustments and less motivating through the media. His rotations should be getting close to set right now. A couple of things bother me:

Holiday is the future of this team. The Memphis game was a great time to get him 20 minutes.

Please I beg of you have Willie Green as a DNPCD. It is ok. I know Green is a nice guy and a great teammate. He hurts the team when he is on the floor.

Kapono needs to be in the rotation somehow. In the Charlotte and Memphis game didn't play until late 3rd quarter. Then EJ left him in for 6 minutes and 17 seconds of the 4th quarter when you needed defense.

We really need SAM on the floor.

The Memphis game almost pushed me over the edge but as they say in poker I am pot committed and all in so I guess I wasn't going anywhere.

I kind of agree with Eric. Same core of player back plus your key signing of last year is back and this team should not being going backwards or even staying the same. When Orlando signed Rashard Lewis everybody thought it was ridiculous money for him . He is certainly a good player but not a superstar. That being said I still don't have a problem with the Brand signing. What I have a problem with is that we can't use the young team excuse anymore. I give them about 7-10 more games to work on some wrinkles and then they need to start Winning, period the end.

deepsixersuede reply to Rob_STC on Nov 22 at 11:23

Kate Fagen wrote an interesting article about Thad!s adjustment to the s.f. position which made me feel better about the adjustment period of our 3 players [Iggy,Thad,and Lou] to new positions.Now they may have a new #1 scoring option to go to [Elton] along with the new offense and coach.I am trying to be patient but I hoped for a similar record or slightly better by seasons end so are they that much worse than the last 2 seasons record wise?

Brand is playing much better. I think he is learning what he can and can't do physically and turning his frustration into effort.

I'm still not sure that translates into "the Brand of old" or even a tradeable Brand.

Was glad to see Thad have a good bounce back game.

I am very encouraged with this game. If the first quarter wasn't so shitty we're in a tight one at the end of the game with a lead. I mean, we didn't win the game, but we were competitive as hell against a team who often rolls teams in their own building:
1. If EB keeps playing like this, we're gonna be fine. I was down on him but he's finding his touch and starting to use his great strength to benefit the athleticism.
2. Our 3 point defense was very good after the first quarter. Against Cleveland and all their shooters, they were 4-13 (or 14, I can't tell) in the last 3 quarters from 3. They were encouraging misses too because if Gibson, Parker, or Williams got a skip pass, someone contested that 3.
3. In the middle two quarters our P and R defense was very good. Elton played them smart and Jason Smith plays them better than anyone else on the team. I was very encouraged with his effort. No more DNPCD for him, I hope.
4. Thad was much better. A few ball-handling mistakes, but 21 and 6 on 9-15 is pretty damn good in 46 minutes! Wow, I hope he slept well last night.
5. Concerned about Iggy's role in the offense. It seems to facilitate him to take contested jumpers with the shot-clock winding down. We gotta get high-percentage, open looks for him. Hopefully, as Lou and EB develop, we can do that.

Watching 13-plus games this year as well as practically every game, including preseason, over the last several years, I had a thought.

One wonders why they even need the Princeton Offense. Don't get me wrong, I can see the value of a read&react scheme, like the triangle or Adelman's Offense, that enables the team to flow into the openings and slice to the bucket, with more off-ball screens and such. Especially if one can create a motion scheme that somewhat replicates the open floor feeling you get during transition.

However, the Princeton, even the pro-style version EJ is a disciple of, was born to take advantage of certain skills while negative certain weakness. He often references the 60s Celtics as running a Proto-Princeton, yet that team had a great high-post big who could pass pretty well(Russell), surrounded by skilled players who could shoot or cut very well. Princeton's teams were smart, unathletic groups that could shoot.

But when you are actually more athletic then most of your opposition and the opponent sags off in order to prevent the driving threat that most of the roster represents, why run a system that requires the overplay/backdoor in order to thrive? It makes no sense, honestly. Why would anybody overplay any player on this team? And without the overplay, some of the staples of this offense are nullified, especially without bigs who are natural passers.

This is just a bad experiment. If Stefanski wanted a more intuitive-based motion offense, he should've went with Turner out of Houston(Adelman's disciple) or Shaw(Jackson's student). Even Aaron McKie has been exposed to the triangle.

At least with the Triangle, there would be a innate tendency to create more postup opportunities among Iguodala, Thad & Brand, plus Speights. In the Triangle, you would not have Brand hanging out at the 3-point line playing hot potato while time runs off the clock, which makes no sense.

This team takes too many jump shots by design. They need a scheme that creates more driving angles and closer opportunities. When Mo was here, this team was about relentlessly driving to the paint. Now, its more about finding the open jumper. They don't get to the line nearly as often as they used to. I hope they can adjust this offense to the actual personnel on the roster, instead of hoping for skillsets not present.

All valid concerns. It really bothers me seeing Brand getting dribble handoffs 30 feet from the hoop. They serve no purpose at all. I did like it when he took one of those and drove right to the hole, though. I'm pretty sure it pissed Jordan off.

Sean reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 2:59

I love it when he just drives it, because it forces the defense to react, that's what you want. But EJ's schemes seem to be about constant facilitating. Brand's a score-first, playmaker-2nd type. Trying to turn him into Webber is not good use of personnel

Good post.

It gets to the hearth of the issue. The team comitted 160M to Iguodala and Brand. They need the right offense for those guys (if there is one.)

Sean reply to tk76 on Nov 23 at 3:01


As mentioned, they might want to incorporate more Triangle, Triple-post action. That keeps Brand(& Speights when he returns) in prime scoring zones as well as putting Thad in the same areas.

i like sean's comment...

maybe this offensive system just isn't working? as brian has mentioned before, sometimes the PO just isn't even evident!

i'm gonna lay off this team for a while...and go watch the eagles

JohnMagee reply to Eric on Nov 22 at 21:32

They don't run the princeton offense very often so who knows if it's working or not?

It seems to confuse Thaddeus Young though

Two plays from last night's game stand out in my mind. One saw Sammy get a pass at the top of the key, hold the ball looking for somewhere to get rid of it, and eventually finding Lou Williams cutting baseline for an easy layup. It was actually a really pretty pass, and one that Sammy completes maybe 2% of the time.

The other play had Brand in the low post, Sammy in the high post and Iguodala on the wing. AI9 fed Brand in the post, Sammy dove to the hole, then cycled out of the lane, created a void right in front of the hoop. Brand made a strong move right in Sammy's wake and hit a pretty lefty runner. That second play is pretty much textbook triangle, right?

Sean reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 2:56

You hit the nail right on the head on the 2nd point. The Triangle would have Brand running in either the low block, elbow or high post, all areas he would be dangerous in. Also, Speights would live in the same zones pretty much.

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