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Holiday Season Extended 8 Weeks

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deepsixersuede on Nov 26 at 22:56
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Brian, I think this injury helps Thad!s development and Iggy!s [playing off the ball] development and even Elton!s [more touches, more points,higher value].L.Will. has been a lot better basketball player this year and if and when he again becomes our supersub he should be more equipped to take games over for stretches. If you want to get even happier, check out N.B.A. Draft.net, there seems to be a lot of bigs coming out this year and Sam!s replacement may be among them, so a few more losses doesn!t bother me too much.

I'll bite, John Wall is the cream of the crop, you take him if you get the chance no matter what. After him, who do you like? Keep in mind, you're drafting for down the road, so you need a guy who you can pair in the front court with Speights. To me, that means defense and rebounding are more important than offensive ability. He should also be able to run the floor. Who fits that bill? Who's the ideal guy if Wall is off the board when the Sixers draft?

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steve reply to Brian on Nov 26 at 23:51
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Derrick Favors from gt hands down

Can he defend? That's the key in my mind when we're talking long term to play next to Speights. I'm not even sure I factor Brand into the equation for this pick. Don't know that he'll still be here when the rest of the team matures.

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steve reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 10:10
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At worst this guy is going to be a Josh Smith type defender. He's got that type of athleticism. His defense is way ahead of his offense as this point but he's only a freshmen. They say he's 610 now and still growing. He's freakish athletically.

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 0:04
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Cole Aldrich I think is the top big man prospect. Good size and instincts. Strange release on his jumpshot but to complement Speights and Brand the Sixers need a player who is more physical inside and I think Aldrich is that player.

Holiday
Iguodala
Young
Brand
Aldrich

I'll take Favors, Aldricth or Solomon Alabi(FSU). I especially like Alabi because he should potentially have the bulk and athleticism to be a defensive anchor AND be able to guard D12 w/o much help.

Is aldrich mobile at all?

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 2:06
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I think Aldrich is pretty mobile for a 7-footer. He's not extremely athletic but he can run the floor well for a big man and he has pretty decent quickness in the post. He can also pass pretty well out of the post and he makes the right outlet pass (something we don't take for granted with SammyD manning the middle for the past few years) Defensively he is long and is a very good shotblocker although he'll have a tough time guarding perimeter-oriented PFs in the NBA. So how that translates with him playing with Brand is yet to be determined but I think he is the top real big man in the draft.

Agreed. He could handle the high post and the outlets for a running offense focused on M16, Thad and Dre, plus defend the interior.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 6:58
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I agree with Dannie [rec. g.m.] that Monroe from Georgetown is an interesting option; he already plays the Princeton offense and is a good passer, scorer and a solid man on man defender. Don!t know if he is a good weakside shotblocker but manning up defensively, like Iggy ,Jrue and Elton seem to do is fine by me.

Brian,

I agree with you 100%. As you know, I had basically decided not to get frustrated and keep following the sixers. I was going to some games but probably just waste my season ticket on others. Now, I plan on being at EVERY game and really don't care about the record AS LONG AS JRUE plays significant minutes EVERY GAME.

And, personally, think this is a blessing in disguise for the team and coach.

1. Pressure is off on the record for the coach, he can now concentrate in building the team for the future.

2. IF the coach plays Jrue as a starter, he will mold the team for Lou to return and continue scoring. And, if Jrue comes through as I expect, we will be ready for a 2nd half run and should have an exciting 2nd half of the season.

Lastly, I would like to state that I appreciate the coach starting Jrue in Boston and not Bill Green. I was shocked but made my day!

I was surprised he didn't go with Green to start, and I believe it was a smart move for two reasons. (1) Jrue is the future and you're going to get more out of him if he's playing with the starters. He's a distributor first, need to have him on the floor with good offensive weapons. (2) Green can, on occasion, provide what Lou provided last year off the bench, an offensive spark. That's exactly what he did against Boston, and they're going to need that with this depleted second unit.

Injuries might be what gets this team over the NBA's curse of being a mediocre team.

Speights and Williams out for extended periods allow for the roster development you're talking about (by forcing minutes Jrue's and Jason Smith's way) AND should translate into enough losses in the sort term to land a high impact rookie in the off-season.

I just think back to the Spurs of 1996-97. Lose David Robinson, masquerade as the 3rd worst team in the NBA, win Tim Duncan, amass a dynasty.

Yeah, that's definitely a possibility. I just took a quick look at the schedule, 29 more games until Lou is back, significantly less until Speights returns, including the Ice Capades road trip. As I said above, I expect them to play better, but even if they do play better, 10-19 could be the result. That would mean 15-29 with over half of the season gone. Ugh. Mid-lottery most likely. If they want a shot at the playoffs, which I can't give up on this early, you have to think they'd have to play no worse than 14-15 or maybe 13-16. 17-27 to the playoffs would be a big stretch. I could also see them going 5-24, they only have 1 game against the Knicks, one game @ Minny, one game @ CHA. There aren't many pure gimmes. If they go 5-24, we could be talking about a legit shot at the #1 pick in the lottery (10-34 with 38 games left to play).

Lottery placement talk makes me a bit queasy this early in the year, though.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 26 at 23:58
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The nets situation reminds me of San Antonio, picture getting the #1 pick and Lebron; that could be scary. Brian, I don!t want to start draft talk too early, but it surprised me that 5 or 6 quality bigs should be available in the 5 to 15 range; right now they have W.Warren in our spot, a stud 2 guard. I am not a tanking person but getting Sam!s replacement is what I am most concerned with.

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bebopdeluxe on Nov 27 at 0:05
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So...let me get this straight:

Last season, when Brand went down, rather than putting Speights in the starting lineup (which certainly would have jump-started his development), we NEEDED TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS...so we moved Thad to the 4 and put Green in the lineup.

We also played Andre Miller (a soon-to-be FA who they may have already decided they weren't going to re-sign) over 38 minutes a game, and in the process gave very little PG burn to the only guy who we actually had signed for this year (Williams). Why?

BECAUSE WE WANTED TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS (and make a few more bucks)

But now - with our PG out for two months (and probably not able to make an impact again until after the All-Star Break), this ownership and this GM would rather go with a 19-year-old rookie and a couple of mediocre combo guards to lead this team for the next 30-40 games...even with an option on the street (Iverson) who would bring people into the building (paying for his salary and then some) and help the team win games...

Right?

Yup...that makes a TON of sense to me.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for Holiday getting the minutes...but if that is the case, then WHY THE F*CK didn't we do the EXACT SAME THING last season when Brand went down? If we don't care enough to try to make the playoffs this season that we would pizz the season away in the name of giving Holiday the minutes, they WHY THE F*CK did we care enough about the playoffs (and our SWEET first round exit) last season when we decided to put Green in the starting lineup and play Miller 38+ minutes a game (and not give Speights and Lou the burn)?

You want to argue that Speights' D wasn't good enough last season to give him starters minutes? Huh? Well, do you REALLY think that Holiday's game is ready to run the Sixers' offense for half a season right now?

Ed Stefanski and Eddie Jordan make me wish for Mo and BK. I am just about ready to do what everybody else in this town is doing - turn this team off until the "Eddie and Eddie" show is gone.

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deepsixersuede reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 27 at 0:10
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I totally agree with you about last year but disagree that A.I. helps this team win more this year, I actually think they may play well with a pure p.g. that defends and allows more shots for the other guys.They sure looked good last night.

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bebopdeluxe reply to deepsixersuede on Nov 27 at 0:43
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I don't have any problem with Holiday's defense...and I'm fine with the guy having a true PG mentality on offense...the problem is that Williams was arguably our best offensive player so far this season, and I don't see any way that Holiday will be able to replace that...do you?

I mean...that was a good 9:40 on Tuesday night...but we are talking about 30+ games, not less than 10 minutes.

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deepsixersuede reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 27 at 0:57
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My hope is its a group effort; Elton, Thad,Carney and Willie all get a few more per game along with Jrue!s contribution.But better defense may also keep us in games.Lou has really grown this year though and was playing very B. Gordonish lately so we will have to hope for the best.

If Jrue is a better defender, which he is, and he's a better facilitator, which I believe he is as well, then he doesn't need to be anywhere near the scorer Lou has been thus far this season to make the Sixers a better team.

Who, exactly, are you arguing with. I don't think anyone here was in favor of starting Willie last year (by the way, it was Mo Cheeks who put him in the starting lineup, before Brand went down), in fact I specifically said Speights should be getting the start.

As for Iverson, at this point of his career he'd essentially be the worst of what Lou was last season. Too many shots for his points, dominating the ball, playing no defense. They would be a worse team with him in the lineup, let the guy retire in peace.

Honestly, if this team is going to make some kind of miracle turnaround and make the playoffs, it's going to be because the coach and the players figured out you have to defend and rebound to win. There's a better chance of those two things happening with Jrue as your starting point than with Lou, Iverson or Willie. It's a longshot no matter what, but less so in my opinion with Holiday.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 9:03
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I'm not arguing with anybody - just pointing the potential hypocracy of playing a rookie after an important starter goes down - and sacrificing short-term success for long-term player development.

I am ALL FOR Holiday starting...and losing some games in the process of him learning how to play in the NBA...because this team isn't winning SQUAT this season, and I would rather see this team develop for the future. I felt the same way about Speights last season. This team (and Holiday) may surprise us and win games...and that would be great! I just wish Stefanski and DiLeo would have had the sack to throw Speights out there with the starters last season....yeah, I understand that his D was suspect at times, but he played MUCH better with the starters than with the reserves. I think that we STILL would have made the playoffs with Speights instead of Green...but we'll never know - will we?

Here's hoping Holiday is up for the minutes.

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Chris reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 13:47
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"Honestly, if this team is going to make some kind of miracle turnaround and make the playoffs, it's going to be because the coach and the players figured out you have to defend and rebound to win. There's a better chance of those two things happening with Jrue as your starting point than with Lou, Iverson or Willie."

I think you are dead on with that sentiment. This team generally defends poorly (as a team and individually). Iggy is a shutdown defender when he wants to be. Other than that, nobody else (of the main starters, excepting Jrue and Ivey) is consistently a plus defender. Sammy can be occasionally, but is erratic. Both Speights and Thad have the physical capability for being excellent defenders but neither is developing that way. Speights has gone from a non-defender to a mediocre one so at least he's progressing in the right direction. Thad seems like he isn't improving on this at all. He keeps making the same mental errors over and over. The current Sixers are sort of an inverse to the old Bobby Knight Indiana teams in that they have some phenomenal athletes / talents but hampered with poor fundamentals, uneven effort and a lot of mental mistakes.

This isn't a team devoid of talent. It doesn't have one overwhelming superstar (like LeBron, Wade, etc.) but most teams don't either. But there are a few players that almost any team would want like Iggy, Speights, Thad, Lou (for instant offense) and maybe even Jrue. It is just they are poorly fit together (at least, as they are currently coached). When they get these guys very young for 'upside' like they've been drafting for lately they have to work on developing them and working on the fundamentals. I'm disappointed they didn't get Thibodeau but that is gone now.

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Jeff reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 27 at 1:24
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This just in - Miller didn`t average over 38 minutes a game last year.

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Jeff reply to Jeff on Nov 27 at 1:33
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On another note - I really dislike when people leave comments in a manner of "arguing with an invisible person."

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bebopdeluxe reply to Jeff on Nov 27 at 8:55
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Huh?

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bebopdeluxe reply to Jeff on Nov 27 at 8:54
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He did after Brand went down.

Lou can be an effective basketball player for us. Overall he's been a pleasant surprise this season so it's tough on him to be out eight weeks.

On the positive side, I will be glad to see Jrue play more minutes. It would be great for the kid to get 30 minutes per game because I don't think he'll do worse than Ivey and Willie Green can't be that hot every night.

I'm just so excited to see how Holiday can play when given the opportunity.

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deepsixersuede on Nov 27 at 7:54
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By the way, for those of you who wanted Josh Smith, there is a 6' 11" white version of him in this years draft; check out the video clips of J. Vesely on N.B.A. Draft.net, very intriguing player.

Here is a question for all. Lou & Speights are out. Happy about losing to get a higher draft pick ? Why watch at all then ? So you mean to tell me that people will watch games in 2009-2010 to root your team to lose for no guaranteed number 1 anything ? That is ridiculous. And oh by the way just because they get a lottery pick doesn't mean that the fan base will come back or they will be good. Obviously the NBA product is flawed if this is the way fans of the NBA think.

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Duracorr reply to Rob_STC on Nov 27 at 11:22
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There is really no question that the NBA system is flawed. Even Ed Snyder said that. The league pattern for success says you must have a superstar (or two) to build around. To get that superstar you must either sign him in free agency or draft him. The catch is that having a 1-5 pick does not guarantee a superstar. You could pick the wrong player or there might be only one potential superstar and you pick third. And signing one in free agency is problematic because it is difficult to get far enough below the cap to sign one, and if you do get down far enough, there is no guarantee that the right superstar will be available or interested in coming to your team. For example, what are the chances that the Nets will get a high enough pick to get a star, select the right player, and convince LeBron to sign with them instead of somewhere else. The chances of that all coming together are maybe 1 in 5.

As Ed Snyder said a month or so ago, the NBA basic agreement needs major change if there is to be parity in the league.

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Rob_STC reply to Duracorr on Nov 27 at 12:12
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I think you are absolutely right.

"I know this for sure, I look forward to every single Sixers game. I cherish the opportunity to see them play, always have, but this injury and the opportunity to see how the team reacts to the situation has just renewed my fervor."

You're special. I'm of the opinion that taped Sixers games could be used as a legal means of torturing terrorists. Other than that, I can't see how we have a shot at the #1 spot, or even the top three. There are some terrible teams out there - Minnesota, New Jersey, Golden State, New York, Memphis. We'll never be really terrible so long as Iguodala's healthy.

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Duracorr reply to Tray on Nov 27 at 13:56
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Actually, I also look forward to every Sixer game. I'm an incurable optimist. I believe one (or more) of the players on the Sixer roster will turn out to be stars in this league. I remember that others in this forum have stated the opinion that both Iguodala and Young would be top five picks in their respective classes if the draft were redone. I think it is a given that Lou Williams (2nd round) would be a first rounder and Speights would probably be drafted between 5-10 in his class. There is talent here. (I want to scream when I read some of the insane posts on Philly.Com) A defensive orientation and a full time shooting coach might have made this a 50+ win team. Unfortunately they have already lost too many games for that and they have shown no tendency toward a defense first attitude. This surprised me because, except for Brezec (?) and Kapono, everyone else they have on the roster could, if properly motivated, play good defense. Good defense in a function of athleticism, a workable philosophy (coaching) and effort. We have the athleticism; sometimes we have the effort; I'm not sure about the coaching.

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Chris reply to Duracorr on Nov 27 at 14:20
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Agree 100% with what you said.

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Tray reply to Duracorr on Nov 27 at 17:03
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There are some talented players on this team. Not every talented player, however, is fun to watch, especially when esconced in a dull and uninteresting offense. Heat and Cavaliers games were quite a torture to watch a couple year ago. And about Thad being a top 5 talent in that draft, you could argue for Oden, Durant, Jeff Green, Noah, and Horford over him. And I suppose there are those who would take a chance on Spencer Hawes or Rudy Fernandez over Thad. In any event, he may have been a top 5 guy in that draft but he's not a very special player.

Depends on your definition of fun to watch. I enjoy seeing Iguodala grab a defensive board, beat everyone down the floor and dunk it on someone's head.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 27 at 16:20
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Is it 7:00 yet?!

Btw, loving the headline of this article. Fitting in more ways than one.


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