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The Moment of Truth

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Court_visioN on Nov 30 at 13:16
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hit the nail on the head, right down to whatever animal that is with braces picture. I will never understand why Eddie Jordan doesn't play to this roster's strengths. My high school coach knows you have to play to the strength of the personnel.

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JohnMagee reply to Court_visioN on Nov 30 at 13:18
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It's a goat?

It's sad that I agree Thad would be the weak link in the lineup you proposed, since I remember vividly during his rookie season Thad was active defensively and was a semi-decent rebounder. And I certainly was so excited about the prospect of Iggy and him dominating in the wings.

I've been clamouring for the Jrue/Iggy/Thad/Brand/Sammy lineup all year, would be great to see it happen. Even now I think that's the way to go. Lou is having a great season but he'll be a great sixth man for this team, especially when Speights returns. The two of them can make an entire bench, kind of like how Brad Miller and Kirk Hinrich do for Chicago.

"It's sad that I agree Thad would be the weak link in the lineup you proposed, since I remember vividly during his rookie season Thad was active defensively and was a semi-decent rebounder. And I certainly was so excited about the prospect of Iggy and him dominating in the wings."

Well the other 4 players on the court are positive defensive players, at least they should be (and have been throughout their respective careers).

And I think Young's problems are mostly correctable, as his biggest problem seems to be over-eager help defense. Then again, that's been his biggest problem the past two seasons (and 3 coaches), so I'm beginning to wonder why it's a continual problem.

I rarely say these words but:

I HATE EDDIE JORDAN as the 76er coach. I never thought I would say Mo Cheeks coaching was the good old days. We have truly gone from the frying pan into the fire.

I hope I am over reacting and wrong. Just got my 2 free lower level tickets to next Monday Night (Denver) and I may just sell them on Ebay. I have been a 76er fan since the days of Wilt. I can accept losing but I cannot accept the reason being the coach.

I'm not saying Jordan is the only reason they're 5-12, with the injuries they may very well be where they are right now anyway. My point is that I think he's making things worse right now with his questionable coaching moves/attitude/style and he's really going to do long-term damage to the franchise if he continues down this road.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 14:19
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Agree 100%

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sfw reply to DeanH on Nov 30 at 14:01
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Dean, could be AI's first game. If so, you may be able to make some money on the sale.

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JohnMagee reply to sfw on Nov 30 at 14:05
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well if he sells tickets he paid zero dollars for for any amount of money then he'll probably make some (illegal) money :)

Even if Iverson comes back I don't expect the sixers will sell out

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tenson reply to DeanH on Nov 30 at 15:15
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How much are you selling the tickets for? If you're selling it for a really cheap price I am interested.

Maybe, we are seeing first hand why his teams do lousy during his first seasons coaching them. It may have very little to do with the PO. Could just be his tinkering with the lineups/personel on the court.

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deepsixersuede on Nov 30 at 14:38
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Guys, is there any possible way E.S. rethinks this move and gets rid of Jordan? Deleo would seem to be a move up at this point and our g.m. has preached a defensive team that runs since he got here, I just don!t get how he can look in the mirror. And are his hands tied in this situation?

If he can fire Eddie Jordan right now and while still keeping his job, Snider must have just an abundant amount of confidence in him. As for what would the team allow him to do, financially? I don't know.

My best guess is the only way we see Jordan gone before at least the middle of next season is if (a) Stefanski is gone as well or (b) A truly marquee name becomes available, like a no-brainer we have to hire this guy type of name. Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, etc. I'd put Jeff Van Gundy in this category, but I'm not sure anyone else would. Otherwise, if Jordan leaves, it's going to probably be someone within the organization, like DiLeo, to take over for the remainder of the season.

In short, don't hold your breath.

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Max reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 14:56
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It seems to me that there is a disconnect between Jordan and Stefanski. Stefanski has confidence in this roster while evidence suggests Jordan does not. How can there be this disconnect if Jordan was Stefanski's "guy"?

I think I remember hearing something about Teague. Also that if they moved up to #12 it was to get Jrue. Heard something about Jennings as well, can't remember what.

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Sean reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 15:19
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Actually, the question might not be Snider, but Peter Luuko, who has stepped to the forefront ever since they fired BK, for the most part. Most commentary above Stefanski tends to come from him, and he & Stefanski are tight, from most accounts.

If Stefanski can sell Luuko on a Mulligan here, he might get the chance, especially with the subsidy from the Wizards. Of course, you are probably talking an in-house replacement, like you said.

I think a possible cheap, in-house dark-horse might be Aaron McKie, with Lynam/Ford as his Yoda.

Can you even ask for a mulligan this soon and not get handed your walking papers? I mean, this was his guy, essentially not only did he hire him, but he had a history with him and vouched for him.

I can't see Stefanski being happy with the way this team is going, and I'm not just talking about wins and losses, the guy has always seemed to have a really good grasp on what was happening on the court. Deepsixersuede was right above, it was Stefanski who championed the defend and run strategy. After 17 games it's virtually gone and it's been replaced with take as many 20-foot jumpers as possible and hope the other team misses open shots.

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Sean reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:28
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"Can you even ask for a mulligan this soon and not get handed your walking papers? I mean, this was his guy, essentially not only did he hire him, but he had a history with him and vouched for him."

The interesting thing is that your first paragraph also applies to Luuko & Stefanski. That fact might enable Luuko to give him the Mulligan, maybe

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deepsixersuede reply to Sean on Nov 30 at 15:35
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Ford would be the best choice as far as experience. I love how he stood up to A.I. but can E.S. do what Croce did ?

Eh. Ford's winning percentage is better than Jordan's, but that's not saying much. Of the in-house options, if we're talking interim, I'd go with McKie. Someone brought it up a while back, but he's got experience w/ the triangle, which would be a better half-court option for this team, and he's also a defense-first guy (based on how he played and what I heard about his responsibilities with the team last year).

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Sean reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:34
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Agreed. 100%. McKie has played for 4 Hall-of-Fame caliber coaches dating back from HS(Bill Ellerbee at Gratz, Chaney, Brown & Jackson) while also playing for quality coaches like Doug Collins as well. During his basketball lifetime, he has had intimate exposure to the PO, the Triangle, Larry Brown's defense schemes & the Matchup Zone.

He'd be my guy.

Eh. Ford's winning percentage is better than Jordan's, but that's not saying much. Of the in-house options, if we're talking interim, I'd go with McKie. Someone brought it up a while back, but he's got experience w/ the triangle, which would be a better half-court option for this team, and he's also a defense-first guy (based on how he played and what I heard about his responsibilities with the team last year).

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deepsixersuede on Nov 30 at 14:57
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It just seems a shame that 2 of the additions [Carney, Holliday] and returns from injuries [Elton, J.Smith] seem to fit the defend and get out and run style for the most part. Something tells me Jordan was fighting E.S. in the draft room for Teague over Holliday.Wasn!t it rumored Teague was their 2nd choice ?

Brian, just posted a poll at realGM that I think would be the basis for a good topic either here or on the radio show.

Here is the link: www .realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=963013

Also put down my feelings here www. realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=942773&start=1755#p21425459

"The Sixers are meeting in Dallas to discuss whether or not to bring back Allen Iverson.

Head coach Eddie Jordan and president Ed Stefanski are meeting with Iverson to discuss the possibility of bringing the 10-time All-Star back to Philadelphia.

The meeting, as of 3 p.m., had been going on for about an hour."


http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Sixers-Iverson-Holding-Meeting-in-Dallas=1&blockID=97079&feedID=704

As much as I am a fan of AI, I think signing AI in order to sell a few more seats and eek out a few more wins (and lose any legit chance of winning the lottery) qualifies as a fireable offense.

That type of desperation where you cut off your nose in order to spite your face drops the Sixers to a lower staus than Memphis or the Clipper IMO.

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deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Nov 30 at 15:50
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If it is as a temporary replacement for L.Will. I don!t mind it but my question is, other than 10 day contracts are there other options?

Can't do a 10 day contract until after the new year.

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scott reply to tk76 on Nov 30 at 15:57
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I completely understand anyone who doesn't want us to bring Iverson back. Logically, it doesn't make sense.

With that said, I cried the day he was traded to the Nuggets and I would do anything to see him put on a Sixers jersey, cup his hand behind his ear, and be back on the squad once again.

Just seeing him play for our team again would make any setback it caused in the long-run completely worth it. We talkin bout Allen Iverson!! Talkin bout Allen Iverson!!

This is going to happen. Do you think there was a voice of reason in the room?

The reason I think its grounds for firing ES is that it means he fears for his job to much to let a talented but flawed young team lose. That means he is either shortsighted or too insecure to do what is best for the team long term... meaning he should not be running the team.

ES's previous moves have all been in good faith in terms of what would be best for the team in the long run. But in my mind an AI signing would be breaking his faith with the fans.

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Nov 30 at 16:06
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I simply refuse to believe that the hiring of Jordan was a no-strings-attached, he's-the-best-guy decision...it was more a "semi-name" HC picked off the recycling heap for cheap (including that $2 mil subsidy from the Wiz). The decision to not have a Knight/Vaughn/Ollie-like PG option as a CYA for something like Williams being out for two months wasn't exactly inspired brilliance, either.

His last two coaches (DiLeo and Jordan) both made lineup decisions that were/all about "win now" - not about long-term player/roster development, and signing AI is right in line with that...yes?

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deepsixersuede reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 30 at 16:12
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The " playoff experience is good for our young players " argument was used I believe.

I agree playoff experience is invaluable for young players. That has nothing to do with signing AI, though. He's not taking them to the playoffs. This would be strictly Eddie Jordan appeasement (he can go right back to DNPCD'ing Jrue and sacrifice even more defense for offense) and trick the stupid fans back into the Wach with false hope and nostalgia. I'm sick to my stomach right now and this feeling will only get worse.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:24
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I agree it is good but my biggest issue with E.S. is his plan; go young,lose and build like Okl. City or sign Elton which keeps you just good enough, which is it?

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 15:56
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What is your impression of Iggy!s comments about A.I. ? On the outside he seemed for it, does it mean he thinks this situation can!t get much worse?

I don't think you'd ever get him to publicly say something bad about a teammate, or a possible future teammate. He doesn't strike me as that type of guy. Pretty much all of the Sixers said some variation of, "He's a great player. Why not?"

If you talked to a couple of these guys in private, I think you'd get different answers, but how many players ever take a look at the whole picture? I mean, half the basketball writers out there never get past points per game as the God stat. How many players are deeper thinkers than the writers?

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:07
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Very true. Dennis Scott on N.B.A. TV just said," Lou Will. and A.I. running up and down the court together shooting 3!s ," ; I just threw up my lunch!!!

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Statman reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:17
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Suede -- I saw that comment too and found it interesting. I think Brian is right that Iguodala's public reaction is be different from his private one. If there is a grain of truth to what Iguodala said, it might be based on the assumption that bringing Iverson in would mean the end of the Princeton offense (could you imagine Iverson fitting into a patterned offense?), to which Iguodala is not well-suited, and the return of an isolation-based or dribble-penetration-based offense, to which Iguodala is much better-suited. Ironically, though, part of the reason Iverson left in 06-07 was that Cheeks wanted the offense to initiate through Iguodala more (one of Iverson's tirades had to do with just that). I'd be just as curious to read what Lou Williams has to say about Iverson's return. The signing of Iverson can't end well when Lou is ready to return, because they do many of the same things at this point.

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deepsixersuede reply to Statman on Nov 30 at 16:21
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Lou also "said the right things" mentioning that he was his mentor. The other side of the "signing A.I." argument for me is the frustration setting in with each loss, especially in Iggy!s play.

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deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Nov 30 at 16:29
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My hope is that if E.S. signs A.I. that it is with the caveat that he and Jrue are the backcourt. If Jordan wants him he plays with the rook, that to me would be alright. Otherwise no, I don!t want him. Would you be okay with that?

Iverson, Holiday, Iguodala, Thad and Brand as the starters?

Ugh. I don't even want to cross that bridge yet.

I'm 99% sure signing Iverson means Jrue is immediately buried on the end of the bench, maybe he plays 10 min/game until Lou gets back, then we only see him in garbage time for the rest of the season.

How does, Iverson, Lou, Iguodala, Thad and Brand strike you? One guy who doesn't have a size mismatch for his position in the starting lineup. Awesome.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:41
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Thad would be my odd man out, but your right, our coach sees things very differently.But A.I. for Thad probably makes us a better rebounding and playmaking team. You have replaced L.Will. with A.I. and Marreese , off the bench, with Thad.If returning to the playoffs is a goal ,that works,but when our players return is my main issue.

So you think he'd play Iverson, Jrue, Iguodala, Brand and Dalembert. Then go with Thad as the first guy off the bench?

That's not horrible, definitely better than going small. But I don't see any way Jordan would do that. Then when Lou and Speights get back you'd have Lou in the starting lineup instead of Jrue?

Ugh.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:54
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My issue is more with our coach than bringing in A.I. actually. If surrounded by the right guys, no Willie or L.Will. next to him, he could be effective here and our star ,Iggy, is getting more frustrated by the minute.

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Sean reply to Brian on Nov 30 at 16:48
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Sounds like EJ's wet dream, until Iverson breaks out of the PO to go ISO 30 times in the 1st game

I'd bet on AI, Iggy, Thad, Elton & Sammy with Iggy playing point in the 1/2 court offense. AI off the ball. Willie/Smith first off the bench depending on the opposition. Jrue behind them.

First: Brian, you are literally the only reason why I'm still interested in the Sixers. Never in the 20+ years of following them have I been more disgusted with this team.

Second: While I'd love for it to happen, there's no way Stefanski is going to fire Jordan of his own volition. He can't - especially after preaching defense coinciding with the availablity of Tom Thibodeau.

Thanks for the kind words.

I tend to agree with you. No way a general manager can bring in his guy after raving about the chalk talk that got him hired, then turn around and fire him before even a full season goes by without taking the heat himself. Unless a bonafide stud coach suddenly becomes available and interested.


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