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Twelve is Looming

Remeber this game: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200703180PHI.html

The Sxiers have beaten Hou 4X sin a row since that beat down.

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JohnMagee on Dec 11 at 16:40
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I'm gonna say they win tonight, cause realistically they really have no business winning this game...

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Kingtizz on Dec 11 at 16:41
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Yea i was thinking that the key to tonights game is rebounds too. But i know that since houston is small Eddie Jordan will play follow the leader and play our small lineup the majority of the game. Which is why we probably will not win the rebound game and are going to have to fight to pull out a victory

Interesting, my feeling is that the Sixers matched up better with the Rockets when they had McGrady and Yao healthy -- in recent years, those two really struggled on defense. Iguodala had one of his best games of the season being guarded by McGrady last year. With the current no-name Rockets roster, I don't see a single matchup that the Sixers can exploit among the starters (Brand vs. Scola might be the closest). I hope I'm wrong, but it's looking like a double-digit loss tonight ...

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JohnMagee on Dec 11 at 18:36
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Do you think it causes Eddie jordan actual pain to put the right starting line up out there?

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Kingtizz reply to JohnMagee on Dec 11 at 19:03
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I just think playing the right lineup infuriates him. This is the same guy who said that the detriot game was a break out game for Elton Brand. I guess he didn't see the 5 other games Elton played better than he did in detroit. All he knows are three's if its not a "small" shooting a jumpshot then its a horrible shot for EJ

Good offensive start for AI9

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JohnMagee reply to Rich on Dec 11 at 19:20
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Not positive about anything until i see them avoid their '3rd quarter slump'

We get off to an 18-5 start and we yank AI and Sammy for.... Primoz and Willie.

Eddie Jordan everybody!

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JohnMagee reply to Rich on Dec 11 at 19:28
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Sam has two fouls and jason smith sucks - aren't really any other optoins

And Jordan said Iverson makes his own calls as to when he comes out - so iverson did that

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Rich reply to JohnMagee on Dec 11 at 19:33
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I'm dissapointed with Smith but if he sucks, then what does Primoz do? Definition of a stiff, but maybe he's buying a few minutes.

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JohnMagee reply to Rich on Dec 11 at 19:33
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maybe he's got 'basketball smarts' that jason smith doesn't....sorry couldn't finish that setnetnce and not crack up

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Rich reply to JohnMagee on Dec 11 at 19:41
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Yeah I feel you. That was stupid for me to argue, they both suck, but man Primoz is hard to watch run. Same thing with Smith catching.

Sweet move by EB to draw a three point play on Hayes by spinning to his left.

AI9 to Thad for a sweet oop in the half-court. Why is Primoz in to guard Scola?

Hated that shot by AI9, a long, contested two with 24 seconds left on the game clock and the shot-clock still with over 15.

Still, this is the best quarter I've seen from this team in a while, but the ending was sloppy and they cut it back to 10. AI9 was spectacular offensively.

I like AI getting rest and playing in shorter spurts. Maybe it can keep him fresh.

Thad's been a beast on both ends early. 2 great def. rebounds early on. AI and Jrue in the game now.

That being said, Budinger is killing Thad. Thad's gotta get in his grill and make him a driver. I hate when he plays passive on-ball defense.

Got stuck on a train for 2 hours on the way home. Watching on DVR, hopefully I'll catch up and join in 2nd or 3rd quarter.

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JohnMagee reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 20:03
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your icon is broekn

Damnit Sammy. That's a stupid 3rd foul.

AI with a 4-0 run with the second hoop coming off a good decision by Brand. If we can get AI open mid-range jumpers, that'll be where he helps them.

Unnecessary fouls are keeping them close.

AI9 drilling jumpers and besides the fouls, the defense has been excellent so far. Fingers crossed that continues.

Smith sucks though, he's no upgrade over Primoz.

Jrue looks rusty but he just dropped a great dime to Thad on the break.

Their bench has killed us tonight. Lowry is going to be a solid NBA backup for years.

Fuck, that last basket sums up our season so far.

Very good half though. AI9 and Thad (except for the stretch on Budinger) with 12 and 8 are the big positives. Alas, the Rockets played pretty terrible by their standards and find themselves down 3.

Really sloppy start to the 3rd. This is becoming a trend.

Get Brand's ass on the blocks. That's all day if we give it to him.

This is so frustrating. The offense since AI has been here has gone absolutely cold after the break. Rockets by 6. UGHHH

This team has to get some freakin pride at some point. They just let these 2nd half beatdowns happen to them.

Oh man, Brooks has freaking killed us with rediculous shots.

You'd think that they might want to try Jrue on him, since Green is getting killed by the screens...

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Rich reply to rswknight on Dec 11 at 20:53
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Yeah that sounds good, but not yet though.

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Rich reply to Rich on Dec 11 at 20:58
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From EJ I mean.

13 point quarter, that's just unacceptable. 26-13 spread that quarter, horrendous. This team is giving me daily headaches.

Good work by this unit to cut it to 7 with Thad shooting 2. AI just can't get anything to drop.

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eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 21:09
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Same crap, different game. Blow this roster up already. We all tend to overvalue our own players. If there are any that think this 'core' will be contending in however many years, hate to dampen the outlook but it is nothing but a pipe dream.

The damn starters are just as lethargic as the bench. Two games in a row where they just go through the motions and come out flat in the 3rd quarter. No pride, no heart, and definitely no leadership.

AI has killed us tonight. There I said it.

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eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 21:18
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Within five. Should I believe and get excited? I don't even know myself.

Still fighting with an 8-0 run. Down 5, let's go!

Damn we gotta finish that possession. We need that board EB.

Great high-risk outlet pass by Sammy leads to AI getting 2 at the line. Down 5, 3:30 to go.

Man, EB is struggling with Landry on the defensive end. Outscored 44-6 by their bench so far, wow.

Awesome defense by Willie Green!!! Awesome!

Fuck me. Very similar to the Rondo shot that ended the Boston game. Perfectly defended play with a BS shot at the end.

Sheesh,we find yet another way to lose.

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eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 21:35
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EB with a timely o-board, but why in the hell does he seem so not confident that he can just go straight back up? Consistently pump-faking so many times - just giving the defenders a chance to recover and collapse. It has to be mental, has to be.

And what do you know, a meaningless three from Dala at the buzzer that goes.................clank!

....at least i'm smiling but it is a dozen..

I wonder if it's a coincidence that in our three Iverson games we've averaged just under 87 points.

96-91. The third quarter, bench, FT's, and Brooks just making tough shots did us in. Why was Willie in at the end of the game for Thad who was very good tonight (15-11). Just another frustrating loss.

Can someone, seriously, explain how Willie Green can play over 24 minutes, shoot 1-7, can't defend and play more than Thad that shot 7-11 and did not play the last 5 minutes???

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eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 21:41
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^ Like it would have made a difference who played....really.

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eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 21:44
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Ah, gotta love it. The life of a favorite-team-on-a-twelve-gamer fan.

Sweet, just sweet.........for my viewing pleasure.

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Duracorr on Dec 11 at 21:43
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How many consecutive losses until ES HAS to fire EJ? Or should I switch to rooting for a high lottery pick? I don't think they will win more than 25 games with EJ as coach.

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eddies' heady's on Dec 11 at 21:53
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They won't win much more than 25 with a new coach and this same exact roster though. This may have seemed like the same team from last year because a few parts carried over, but it is missing crucial parts - on AND off the court. The coach may need changing but the personnel has to change too.

It may be as drastic as another trade your best player and get better trade. I love the guy and what he gives, because every successful team needs someone to do that, but it is just something about his on-court demeanor (or lack thereof) that doesn't suffice. Really can't pinpoint it, but dude just has issues, and they are pretty consistent.

He would be the chip with the most value - and free up big money just like when Allen was sent packing.

because a few parts carried over

A few parts equals 9 of 14 on the roster.

24 points on 13 shots and somehow it's Iguodala's fault again. Is there anyone you won't blame just so you can ride Jordan's jock?

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 22:31
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Pick and choose as you may. There is so much more being said there. Don't let the trees get in the way.


But if you insist on emphasizing particulars - 9, 14; 14,9; it doesn't matter the numbers when the head of the snake is gone.

Yes, you know who I'm talking about - that heady (no pun intended) guy.

Why are you speaking in riddles? Iguodala is very easily the best of a bad bunch, and yeah, I don't like his on-court demeanor either, he's hardly the picture of a team leader/go-to guy/franchise player, but it's not his fault that he's forced into that role. If we had never spent money on Brand we could've afforded a real franchise guy.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Dec 11 at 22:47
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You speak of riddles, but in the same breath speak of "ifs". Heh.

"but it's not his fault that he's forced into that role."

But see, the problem is, that he isn't forced into that role - he thinks he's worthy of it. He feels entitled to it.

But after multiple diversions and picking-and-choosing, the gist was those missing crucial parts. That guy on the court and others off of it.

I don't see entitlement. I see a guy who works hard in the summer, who plays unselfish basketball and plays both ends and who is the best player on the team by a comfortable margin.

How do you get entitlement? Is there somebody else that deserves that spot that 3 different coaches have encouraged him to take, especially since all 3 have said at different times that they want him to be MORE aggressive, not less.

Does he complain to the refs a bit too often, sure. Can he be better about correcting his teammates in public, sure.

Somehow, I don't see Iguodala as the problem or an issue.

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eddies' heady's reply to rswknight on Dec 11 at 23:03
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When exactly was he ever referred to as the problem or the issue?!

It was more of, he is a major part of the solution. Did you not see where I stated I love the guy and the aspects he brings.

You have to start somewhere. Why not your best piece?

How about you start with the Coach who has a mediocre career record plus a long, distinguished history of bad defense?

That would be the place to start, right?

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eddies' heady's reply to rswknight on Dec 11 at 23:29
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Yeah, that's the place to start - if you want to keep going in circles. You know, being happy with roughly 45 wins on a yearly basis. It will not matter what coach is brought in to coach this roster - they will not be a contender.

My coach comments have been taken as defensive of him, when it was nothing more than the chance given.

But the coach is the trees, blinding you from the other organizational indescretions.

Following your own logic, the coach is a smoke screen making it impossible to properly gauge what pieces are worth keeping. You want to make wholesale changes based on the idiotic decisions this guy is making.

I don't think anyone here is saying the roster is perfect, what we are saying is that this ridiculous system is (a) making them worse than they actually are and (b) completely obscuring any chance to get an accurate feel for this roster's strengths/weaknesses and there's no way they're going to be able to properly assess what they have and what they need as long as this guy is coaching the team.

You're doing a fine job of trying to talk in circles here, but your point has consistently been that the play we're seeing on the court is not Eddie Jordan's fault, it's management's fault for putting this roster together. The implication being that ANY coach stuck with these guys would have a 5-18 record right now and be playing some of the worst defense we've ever seen. That's just bullshit.

For whatever reason you have a raging hard on for this guy and you spend all your time either grasping at straws looking for something other to blame other than the obvious cause for this shit play, or deflecting blame onto the players. It's tiresome.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 0:02
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Still hung up on blame?

As I said below, I'm past placing blame. My argument runs so much deeper than that.

But first, my wholesale changes have absolutely nothing to do with the friggin' coach's decisions. It has to do with the body of work I have seen over a period of time with these players they have assembled and put together.

You're so busy trying to pass judgment and pass rule on "someone's point" amidst your own frustrations, that you often bypass the overriding message. Get off the zoned-in-blame mindset.

What we've seen from these players, who you seem to loathe so much, is over-achievement for three straight seasons from a young roster. We've seen continued development. Up until Jordan got here, they had improved consistently ever since Iverson's departure. So when they go from a .500 team, and really more than that if you factor in missing Brand for the entire season last year, to the laughing stock of the league, yes I'm looking to blame someone and you should be as well.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 0:33
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In no way do I loathe the players, I loathe the collection and fit of the players.

And whether we win 5 to 8 games more than .500 each year, or show development from the youngins, so what? If you are not amongst the few elite with a chance at the title, and your core personnel as currently constructed won't come close to getting you there, and you're in csp purgatory for at least 3-4 more years, blame can't just be placed singularly.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 0:09
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Tiresome? Tell me you just didn't say that. If you are tiresome of an alternative viewpoint, whether agreed or not, you have to be totally exhausted at the ink and thought given to the chosen one. Seriously.

Just find a consistent way to deflect blame from your boy instead of bouncing all over the place and I'll find you slightly more tolerable. Right now, tiresome is the only way to describe your act.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 0:53
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This isn't deflecting blame, it is a call for substantial change from top to bottom within this three ring circus - the front office, the coaching staff, and the players.

My intent isn't to be tolerated. And you still are caught up in passing 'judgment' on one's 'act' instead of respecting one's voice - dissenting or not.

You are absolutely right. Andre Miller is the difference between a .500 team and a .217 team. He's the difference between the #14 defense and the #29 defense. Missing Miller and his stellar on-the-ball defense is the reason the Sixers are well on their way to setting the record for worst three-point defense in the history of the league. Oh, I forgot about Miller's "leadership" and how he took all these young players under his wing, worked out with them all summer and was such a great locker room guy.

He's such a great leader Portland's had enough of him after 22 games and they're looking to trade him.

You know, eventually you'll get around to blaming everyone but Jordan for this mess.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 22:50
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But see, this isn't about placing blame. It's about enacting change - on multiple fronts.

Changing when translated into moving the best player for no real legit reason is just wrong, especially when the majority of the responsibility rests with the coach who is simply performing to his history.

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eddies' heady's reply to rswknight on Dec 11 at 23:12
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I won't argue you on the coach, but with that said, a chunk of that responsibility is on management. Some really bad moves have been made here for a number of years.

They wait too long to tweak rosters or just, for some reason, don't tweak them at all. Or when they think they're tweaking, they usually blow all of the cap.

It really does go beyond who the head coach is.

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Duracorr reply to eddies' heady's on Dec 12 at 17:20
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I missed this discussion last night but feel compelled to share my opinion and add some data. In the last 20 years, NBA titles have been won by only 7 coaches. Jackson 10, Popovich 4 Daly 2 Tomjanovich 2 and Brown and Rivers 1 each. I suggest that this argues that having a "Hall of Fame" quality coach is as important as having a "superstar". From that, I suggest that recycling experienced, mediocre coaches is an exercise in futility. If a coach does not produce after a year or two with a decent, team, give a new guy a chance. The Sixers question should be "Who is the next Jackson, Riley or Popovich. (The coach statistics hold if you go back further and include all of Riley's titles and look at Auerbach.) In all 47 titles have been won by the 12 coaches with multiple titles and only 16 by coaches who have won just one time. Forget about the hundreds of other s who have coaced and not even one one title.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_championship_head_coaches#Coaches_who_won_a_NBA_Championship_.2828.29

testing.

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Chris reply to Brian on Dec 11 at 22:48
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See your message. This is depressing (pun intended).

How long before the media and/or fans turns on Jordan or Stefanski if this continues? This may be the year we get a high lottery pick but, other than Wall, who else is a franchise potential talent? If this were the Flyers, Jordan and Stefanski would be done already.

Jrue (an ugly) 8:15 with no 2nd half minutes. I'm guessing we see 5X more minutes combined for Green and Iverson from here on out (50min to 8 tonight.)- because Green and Iverson are so important to this teams past... I mean future (:

I was trying to watch how Houston ran its offensive sets given they run a version of the Princeton Offense. Also tried to watch how they played defense, since their assistant, Elston Turn was a candidate for the coaching job.

I didn't notice a lot of useless dribble handoffs, so apparently their version of the offense isn't as evolved as Jordan's.

Looked like quite a bit of pick and rolls to me, and in the second half they ran simple plays that stressed the defense a little bit and led to wide open threes. Just like every other team.

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bebopdeluxe on Dec 12 at 0:08
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"We're not going to play a perfect game," Sixers coach Eddie Jordan said. "But we did play hard and we did play smart, for the most part."

The smartness might have come into question in the game's final 2:15.

Although Andre Iguodala had 24 points and Iverson his 20, while the game was being decided, only one of five shots went to those guys: a made pull-up jumper by Iverson with 1:06 remaining.

In that time, reserve Willie Green missed 22-foot and 19-foot jumpers. He finished 1 for 7.

Another shot went to Elton Brand, who finished with 19 points and 10 rebounds. The remaining shot went to Samuel Dalembert, who grabbed 14 rebounds and scored seven points.

"I didn't have it from outside," said Green, whose bucket accounted for a third of the team's bench contribution.

Down the stretch, Jordan kept Green on the floor instead of Thaddeus Young, who scored 15 points on 7-for-11 shooting. "Willie was playing well," Jordan said.

______________________________________________________


I really don't have anything to add. That pretty much says it all.

Yep, the coach has nothing to do with it.

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eddies' heady's on Dec 12 at 0:15
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Quote from above -

"..there's no way they're going to be able to properly assess what they have and what they need as long as this guy is coaching the team."


Ummmmm, isn't that why they canned Mo early and inserted DiLeo last year? To properly assess?

Actually, no. They canned Cheeks because they believed, like 99% of the world, that they had assembled a group capable of contending, or at least headed in that direction, and Cheeks failed to integrate Brand into the offense, or vice versa.

Feel free to rewrite history, though.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 0:40
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Again, pick and choose.

You expound on Cheeks. But the insertion of DiLeo for the remainder of the season was for assessment purposes and you know it. There's no rewriting in that.

This game reminded me of the Bulls loss earlier this season. The Sixers jump out to a huge early lead (27-10 after 9 minutes.) Then they start smiling and congratulating themselves for their intensity... and next thing you know they lose.

Clear signs of a young team without leadership. Their leaders are Iguodal- who sulks, Brand who has always played on losers, AI who is AI and Eddie Jordan.

It actually went downhill earlier than that. They got off to an 18-6 start in the first 7:10 of the game, then Primoz Brezec and Willie Green entered the game and Houston scored 13 points in the final 4:50 of the first quarter.

It may pain us, but I'll be fine if Jordan is fired next year and we hire the coach we should've hired from the beginning: Tom Thibodeau.

He had a very impressive resume to me, and clearly wouldn't have(or accept) this team being one of the worst defensive teams in the league.


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