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My favorite quote from Jordan in the post game,

"Antawn Jamison gets loose for some threes, which he's known to do, from the four position."

Meaning, I couldn't play Elton Brand because he doesn't get out and guard fours beyond the arc.

In reality, Jamison attempted two threes all night, hitting only one of them. And the one he hit was on an atrocious broken play at the end of the first half, and had absolutely nothing to do with Brand's rotations, or lack thereof. He mentioned that and the team's inability to stop dribble penetration, notably Nick Young, as the team's problems on defense. So one was fictional and the other was only a problem when he decided he had to have Lou Williams back in the game. Brilliant.

Kenneth on Jan 6 at 3:23

When will the 76er front office decide to fire Eddie Jordan? I can't stand him. The sight of him makes me sick now. I think we've all reserved judgement for the first 20 games or so. But with everyone healthy, they're still losing and losing to bad teams. And the few wins they've had are to teams w/o their best players...hardly a satisfying win.

I wish there's a way to impeach the coach like you can do with presidents. I'll bet that the vote will be unanimous to FIRE EDDIE JORDAN.

There's just no excuses for him left...the Sixers are losing and it's all because of EJ.

They fire EJ when Washington is no longer paying the bulk of his salary... so this summer or very early this year. He's not on the clock because we are not paying him yet.

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Jan 6 at 13:24

Why wait? If you are going to fire him when the Wiz aren't paying his salary anymore, you are going to be on the hook for the other two years anyway...right?

Let's say - for the sake of argument - that you fire both of the bozos and go with DiLeo/McKie for the balance of the season. What would be the pro-rated $$$ that you would have to give them for their increased responsibilities? Let's say its $500,000...or roughly 12,000 to 15,000 tickets sold. You have 25 home games remaining...if you sold more than 700 more tickets a game (or prevented 700 tickets a game from not being bought, at the rate things are going), you pay for the move to DiLeo/McKie. Even if the Sixers are paying some nominal fraction of Jordan's salary this season, just establishing some semblance of normalcy on this roster would equate to enough wins and nominal fan interest to offset whatever the Sixers owe Jordan.

I really believe that, if the basketball that EFJ is orchestrating continues for the remainder of the season, I think my estimate of 15,000 fewer seats sold for the remaining 25 games is WAY, WAY low.

Tonight started out well for me. I was going to my first 76ers game of the year and on the hunch from my dad, I brought my two tickets from the snowy Clippers game which I couldn't attend and asked if they could compensate me in anyway. The guy at the the ticket office said that he didn't exactly know the deal but he would check. He came back with two 12th Row tickets, so at least give the Sixers that credit. They at least treat their fans well as far as tickets are concerned. They said that you should mail them back but if anyone else is in the same spot I would just bring them to the ticket office and you'll get the same seats. I was near one of the baskets in the 12th Row.

OK, now to the game. First the positives and there actually are a few. I might have witnessed Sammy's best game that I have ever seen as a pro. I was sitting with my cousin and I looked up at the scoreboard expecting to see 10 rebounds for Sammy. He actually had 15 and then the best part of the game was watching to see if he hit 20/20. He did, so good job Sammy. I thought AI9 was excellent tonight, just a complete leader who made some tough shots. I understand people wanting to blow it up, but how could you want to give this guy up. He affects the game in countless ways and it is even more noticeable in person. If we traded that guy for something that wasn't fantastic (This doesn't mean you, Tracy McGrady), we would end up regretting it. That is my official position.

Now let's get to the bad. Eddie Jordan is an absolute idiot. First, the rotations. Instead of using a highly effective Speights/Carney combo which stretched the lead in the first half, HE GOES TO FREAKIN KAPONO AND SMITH. From watching Kapono in person, I'm fairly sure the guy is worthless on offense too. He doesn't even look to shoot when he's open. He just wants the ball out of his hands. AND HE PLAYED 7 KEY MINUTES IN THE 2nd HALF. Speights played 12 minutes and had 5 points and 3 boards in that run. He was pretty active too.

Lou is absolutely useless defensively. Here's something that is amazing. In the words "Lou Williams," there is no common letters with the word "defender."

EB was bad tonight with a ton of missed free throws, but he should never under any circumstances play less than 30 minutes. BTW, Jrue was the only person on the team who looked for him in the post. Lou also does not even know what an entry pass is.

EJ's defense is some of the most reactionary horseshit that I have ever seen. At the end of the game, we switch everything, double everything and jump anything. It's like, "Instead of giving Caron Butler a contested 20 foot jumper coming off a screen, let's double that and not rotate at all, which will give Jamison a dunk. Everyone is just scrambling and a defense needs to be confident and dictate what the offense does. Not only do we not do that, the defense just dictates madness. They got an open shot whenever they wanted down the stretch.

Here's the biggie: Thad looks lost. Since AI has returned, he is shooting 13-44, with 7 and 4 in 22 minutes per game. This is giving me a migraine just thinking about it. I thought that AI would negatively affect a few people a little bit, but actually AI has negatively affected no one except Thad, who is feeling the brunt of 5 people.

Worst part is that the Sixers didn't score 100, I wanted a free Big Mac. I even made a call to ESPN 950 to vent about how much I hate Jordan. The guy basically agreed with everything I said.

This team shoots way too many jumpers. Way too many.

Rich reply to Rich on Jan 6 at 3:36

Oh, and Fire Eddie Jordan. Simply put.

Statman reply to Rich on Jan 6 at 7:49

In the words "Lou Williams," there is no common letters with the word "defender."

Now this is hilarious! (and true even if you use his full first name of "Louis")

Glad to hear you got something for that ticket.

they announced the attendance at 11,000+, the actual crowd had to be smaller than that. It's so sad seeing the place so empty. The Sixers have no one to blame but themselves, though. Put a crappy product on the floor in this city and that's what's going to happen.

Hope your night wasn't ruined by EJ.

Kenneth on Jan 6 at 3:43

When Eddie Jordan is eventually fired (hopefully sooner than later)...everyone on this blog should all head to a bar and celebrate. I'll buy the first round of drinks!

Hi everybody,
I'm from Barcelona (Spain), but a great sixers fan since I was a kid (and I love the NBA too). I've seen some bad coaches in FIBA and NBA, but nothing like EJ in this decade. I can't stand him.
Brian I like your blog. Good job.


Vaughn on Jan 6 at 7:45

Worse than Kotite.

Dave reply to Vaughn on Jan 6 at 9:38

Amazing... I was thinking exactly the same thing, dude.

deepsixersuede on Jan 6 at 7:56

I think McKie, with no coaching experience, would look like L.Brown here if given the chance. This is a 45 win team if coached properly.

It is funny to look at "fire eddie jordan" in a google search and then look at the results from 2-3 years ago. The comments are exactly the same as those said over the last month.

Brian I think it's time to take a break from the (deserved) Eddie Jordan bashing and point the fingers to the players. You did it well underlining Lou Williams' awful game (despite the boxscore). I think the same should be said for many others.

I think there is no way a player like Brand grabs 1 rebound in 23 minutes, or that Thad Young does absoluely NOTHING in 25 minutes, or that Iverson completely misses Nick Young in the key moment of the game, to let him score 8 straight points.

I think a team like these Sixers can hold a 18 point 3rd Q lead vs the lousy Wizards even coached by Tim Floyd, John Lucas or Johnny Davis, REAGUARDLESS OF WHO IS PUT ON THE FLOOR.

It's not like we had D-Leaguers in there, or that we had to face the Lakers, it was the freaking Wizards for crying out loud... it wasn't Jordan to throw stupid alley oop passes in transition down the stretch, or simply, and kindly, giving the ball to the opposing guards in the 4th, or missing free throws.

Again, not defending Jordan of course, just trying to make players accountable, like they should

I believe the Sixers almost always loose their first game back from a west coast trip. They had no legs down the stretch run of the game. That being said the coach should have prepared for that. Lou Will & AI should not have been in the game together when the team desperately needed stops. Typical EJ.
Also, I really think there is an issue between Elton and Iggy. Seems, they never pass the ball to each other. Possibly, because Iggy believes it's his team and EB has stepped up his leadership role in the locker room and on the court? Don't know. Curious to know others opinion.

Charles Shackleford's Top Hat on Jan 6 at 9:21

I had a completely new feeling last night. I was in the gym watching the game and when he brought the starters back out, i got off the treadmill and ended my workout. I hate the starting line up so much i fugured i could shower and get home by the time Jrue, Speights and Brand were back in the game. I actually hate watching the starting line up. I am not rooting for any of those guys. That is the difference between this year and years past. I always had some combination of players to really focus on and that would allow me to enjoy even a loss. Now, the Lou and Iverson backcourt is such a disaster, that I can't even enjoy watching Thad or Iggy because i am just reminded that they are playing out of position. Jrue, Iggy, Thad, Speights, Brand is the lineup i want to watch. Even if we lose, we can get some data points for the future. Not only is Eddie Jordan 100% responsible for games being lost, his rotations and philosophy have completely lost me. I actually hate this team now. I hate myself for watching and i hate myself for caring.

We should all just bail until Eddie Jordan is fired. Last night was the straw that broke the camels back. Washington is on a run and in comes Lou, in comes Kapono, in come Jason Smith???? What??? I couldn't believe what i was seeing. After actually having a little continuity in the first half, he tries to match offense with offense. It's unbelievable. He is totally random. And the switching. All that needless switching on D is going to make me go on Prozac.

Stefanski, man the F up. You made this hire and you need to fix it or we are all gone. With the mental energy we spend thinking about this crappy team we could build a wind powered car.

This sucks.

CSTH is out. Chao amigos!

CSTH, feelings mutual!

JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 10:37

I can't get this aggravated this early in the morning - but


JohnEMagee reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 10:49

Sorry - that's the clipper post game even though it shows up on the wizards post game page - i didn't have the heart to actually watch the video


Says Jordan postgame and yet it's the clippers...what are they hiding?

Really well put. I hope TrueHoop on ESPN picks this up because it needs more national coverage. Lou will is despicable, and so is iverson

Here's the stat of the night:

Sam Dalembert in his 32 minutes of work grabbed 62.5% of all available defensive rebounds and 19.7% of all available offensive rebounds. Overall, he grabbed 40.5% of available rebounds.

Unreal production on the glass.

Shawn reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 11:21

Hahaha, first time I've seen Dalembert care in the last 4 years. I think he knows he's on the trading block and trying to get the hell out of Philadelphia.

JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Jan 6 at 11:29

He knows he's been on the trading block for a while now - and so does the entire NBA - Sam has flashes every season of having a clue - then reverts to sam

He's been on the block for close to a year no, at his request

Statman on Jan 6 at 11:20

After last night's debacle, I went back and charted three things in the game: Iguodala's possessions, Sixers' defense on Jamison, Sixers' 4th-quarter defense.

First, Iguodala's possessions. This post is an addendum to yesterday's discussion about Iguodala as a "slashing wing player." To review, Derek B. wrote a post http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2010-01-03/Mythbusters-Iguodala-the-Slasher with extensive analysis to conclude, "Iguodala's not a slashing wing player." That conclusion can be taken to mean (1) he doesn't penetrate as much as people think and (2) he's not effective when he does penetrate. Derek's article implies both are true. My rebuttal was that the analysis was incomplete because it did not account for free throws or passes off penetration.

Now, Iguodala had one of his better games this year last night, so the following can be considered on the "high end" of what he does -- but it is not a "once a year" type aberration. I charted all of his meaningful offensive touches, listed below. Those not in parentheses came off penetrations; those in parentheses were something else (transition or halfcourt non-penetrations). I defined a penetration as taking at least one dribble toward the hoop before doing something. I defined transition as first six seconds of the shot clock.

- drew non-shooting foul
- 14-ft jumper missed [2 secs]
- (FB=fastbreak turnover, Oberto stripped)
- (give-and-go lay-up with Sam)
- pass to Sam for dunk
- pass to Lou, swing to AI3 for open 21-ft missed
- (swing pass to AI3 for open 17-ft made)
- (3-pt made, AI3 assist)
- near turnover (PHI ball)
- (1 of 2 FT off steal)
- lay-up off drive (JHol assist)
- (FB alley-oop to Speights for dunk)
- (swing pass to Lou for 3)
- drive and lay-up plus FT made
- (FB pass to Thad for 2 FTs, 1 of 2 made)
- lob to Sam for guided lay-in
- (missed 3-pt [3 secs])
- (off. rebound lay-up made)
- pass to AI3 for open 17-ft made
- (FB pass stolen)
- 15-ft fadeaway made
- pass to Brand under hoop, Brand hesitated and got stripped (PHI ball)
- (steal + dunk)
- pass to AI3 for open 21-ft missed
- scoop pass to Sam for 2 FTs, 2 of 2 made
- pass to Brand for open 13-ft made
- (missed 18-ft [8 secs])
- (turnover off fumbled pass, bad pass from AI3)
- (off. rebound dunk)
- pass to Thad for 4-ft hook missed
- (missed 3-pt [5 secs])
- (pass to Lou for 3)

So first, the shot distribution:
2 of 6 jumpers
4 of 4 lay-ups
2 of 2 dunks

How the shots came about:
4 halfcourt penetrations(1 of 2 jumpers, 2 of 2 lay-ups)
6 halfcourt non-penetrations (1 of 4 jumpers, 1 lay-up, 1 off. rebound dunk)
2 transitions (1 dunk, 1 off. rebound lay-in)

So Iguodala doesn't penetrate much, right? Wrong, if you account for passing. Here is how the above 31 possessions break down.

halfcourt penetrations (15 possessions):
- 1 of 2 jumpers
- 2 of 2 lay-ups (plus 1 FT)
- 2 assists for dunks/lay-ins
- 2 assists for open jumpers
- 1 pass leading to shooting foul (2 of 2 FTs made)
- 2 passes leading to open shots missed
- 1 good pass, mishandled
- 1 good pass, indirectly leading to open shot, missed
- foul drawn, non-shooting
- near turnover, Sixer ball (no actual turnovers)

non-penetrations in halfcourt (10 possessions):
- 1 lay-up off give-and-go
- 1 of 4 jumpers
- off. rebound dunk
- 3 swing pass assists
- turnover off fumbled pass

fastbreaks (6 possessions):
- 1 shooting foul drawn, 1 of 2 FT
- 1 off. rebound lay-in
- 1 assist for dunk
- 1 pass leading to shooting foul (1 of 2 FTs made)
- 1 bad pass turnover
- 1 dribbling turnover

If you look at the halfcourt penetration possessions, there are a lot of good things Iguodala does off penetration that don't show up in Derek's analysis (like free throws and assists) or don't show up in the boxscore at all (passes leading to free throws for others, passes leading to good shots missed, passes leading indirectly to open shots [assists of assists], non-shooting fouls drawn). In this game, he made a whopping 9 good passes off penetration (to 4 FG attempts). Even if he had gone 1 of 4 in his penetration shots instead of 3 of 4, he would have been an effective penetrator in this game because of his passing. So I reiterate: to conclude "Iguodala's not a slashing wing player" while only taking into account FG attempts is an incomplete analysis at best, and in this game (admittedly one of his better ones this season - though, again, not entirely atypical) would have grossly underestimated his impact as a penetrator.

JohnEMagee reply to Statman on Jan 6 at 11:30

You can't draw any conclusions from one game - derek's analysis is more than one game - you have to examine all the games, and not just this season, to see the truth

Statman reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 11:40

Here are the Jamison possessions in the game.

- 2 of 2 FT (fastbreak)
- goaltended lay-up (switch/Lou)
- penetration (Iguodala) + pass to Arenas for 3
- stolen pass (Iguodala)
- 22-ft jumper (Brand)
- 4-ft scoop missed (Brand)
- 3-pt missed (Brand)
- open 3-ft scoop made (Brand)
- 6-ft hook missed (Thad)
- 5-ft hook missed (Thad)
- 3-ft hook missed (switch/SD)
- 5-ft floater (Thad lost on switch)
- 3-ft hook off drive (Brand)
- stolen pass (Iguodala)
- 18-ft jumper made (JaSmith)
- 2 of 2 FT (JaSmith)
- 4-ft hook made (JaSmith)
- 7-ft blocked (Brand)
- off. reb. score + 1 (Brand)
- open 3-pt made (fastbreak)
- 3-ft hook (Iguodala lost on switch)
- 22-ft missed (Thad)
- turnover off drive (SD steal)
- open 22-ft made (Thad lost on P/R)
- lay-up (switch/Lou)
- off. reb. lay-up (Thad)

overall attempts:
fastbreak: 1 of 1 3s, 2 of 2 FTs
vs. Iguodala: 1 of 1, 1 assist, 2 turnovers
vs. Brand: 4 of 7, 1 of 1 FTs
vs. Thad: 3 of 6
vs. JaSmith: 2 of 2, 2 of 2 FTs
vs. Dalembert: 0 of 1, 1 turnover
vs. Lou: 2 of 2

So Jamison didn't really try much while Iguodala was guarding him for 1.5 quarters (part of Iguodala's good defense is ball denial), and actually Thad did pretty well on him when he could challenge the shot (Thad lost him a couple of times and gave up an offensive rebound score, both being his defensive bugaboos). Chief culprits in the Jamison explosion were Brand and Jason Smith. Brand is too slow to guard Jamison on the perimeter (Jamison drove by him several times). And putting Jason Smith on Jamison for any possessions is Exhibit A as to why Eddie Jordan is a historically bad coach. [p.s. Jamison scored 7 points on 1 of 6 shooting while being guarded primarily by Thad in the 2nd meeting this year. He really should have been guarded by Iguodala or Thad all game, but especially after he started to get hot.]

Statman reply to Statman on Jan 6 at 11:44

Whoops, this was not meant to be a direct reply to John.

To me, this highlights the difference between Flip and Eddie. Flip not only exploited mismatches, but he created them with his rotations. Jordan, on the other hand, doesn't believe in attacking mismatches and simply won't adjust on the defensive end, no matter what.

I'd bet if you did a breakdown like this player by player, you'd see how the ball found the guys with the big mismatch, and it found them in a place where they could take advantage (Jamison facing up on Brand or Smith, closer to the hoop w/ Thad), Nick Young anywhere on the floor when Lou was on him. He tried to get Caron in the post with Iverson on him early, but I don't think that's really Butler's game.

Statman reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 11:43

Not drawing conclusions from this game, just pointing out there's a whole lot that goes on that makes the original analysis incomplete. I'm not going to chart every game, and I don't expect anyone else to either. But FG attempts is not the only thing that determines whether someone is an effective penetrator, that much should be clear.

JohnEMagee reply to Statman on Jan 6 at 11:48

You make the analysis with the data available to you...

1) I ammended it to include Free Throws
2)I don't have the data for assists broken down by % of half-court drives.

To my defense, I:
1) Stated that it was based off of field goal attempts, so not trying to be misleading about it
2) Held all players to the same criteria. So Kobe, Pierce and LeBron aren't getting their assists counted either.

In all honesty, the post was meant to cover scoring. You're making an argument I wasn't arguing against.

This is the last post I want to make on the subject, because I'm arguing a point I wasn't making with the article.

Ignore the title of the article for one moment. I can see how the title might be a little too strongly worded, but I felt that when the article was read it was clear I was talking about Iguodala's scoring in the half court and not his ability to generate looks for his teammates.

That being said, read the opening of the article and the conclusion to my article, without reading the title, and tell me why you would conclude that I'm talking about anything other than his ability to score off his penetration, and where I even attempted to draw a conclusion about his ability to generate for his teammates in those situations respective to other people in the league.


"Andre Iguodala's commonly labeled a slashing wing player, requiring shooters on the perimeter to open up the lane for his forays into the paint. I've repeatedly disagreed with this assessment, including in my 2009-2010 Sixers Preview. Iguodala's first step is average (respective to the rest of his dynamic athleticism), his body control is below average, and his touch around the hoop sometimes erratic. This, in my opinion, is holding him back from being a legitimate #1 scoring option as much, if not more so, than his jumper."

The fact that I'm talking about his body control and touch around the rim make it clear, and saying they hold him back from being a legitimate #1 scorer make it clear I'm talking about it from a scoring perspective.

The conclusion:


"Iguodala's not a slashing wing player. He's a transition wing player, and when forced into a half-court game turns into primarily a jump shooter, a role he's not particularly efficient at. His best attribute in the half court offensively is still creating for teammates, as he's a great interior passeer.

Gut reaction is to say Eddie Jordan's system is moving Iguodala further from the hoop, but the data doesn't necessarily support that, as he's been primarily a jump shooter in the half court since he's been the Sixers best player.

His jump shooting, by and large, is at about the same level of efficiency as it has been in prior years, with minor year to year variations. This year has been his most efficient, but not by a significant margin.

When he does drive to the hoop he's of average effectiveness, with last year being an abnormally efficient season and this year being abnormally inefficient.

He's greatly a product of diminishing returns, and when he gets a legitimate star to play next to who can create (both for himself and for others) in the half-court, Iguodala can limit his attempts to obvious mismatches and open shots.

His drop in efficiency this year can largely be attributed to 2 things:
- He's taking a higher percentage of his half-court shots as jump shots, which are lower percentage shots than drives to the hoop. That being said, the change is not drastic from his 2007-2008 shot distribution.
- His effectiveness in transition is drastically less than his career norms."


I say, direct and to the point, that his best attribute in the half-court is his passing ability. The first paragraph. The second sentence in the conclusion I mention that.

I don't think that you can read my intro or my conclusion and say I was talking about anything other than his half-court scoring ability.

Yeah, I'm not attacking what you did, and I understand the limitations and the purposes of your post. I'm more looking to use it as a piece of a larger picture to get a handle on his overall effectiveness in the half court, scoring included. What you've done is a big piece of that, but I want the whole picture.

Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Jan 6 at 16:01

By the way, I found the original article very interesting and appreciate the effort you put into it.

So, maybe it's semantics, but while the stats you present in the article are clearly all about scoring, the commentary both before and after the stats indicates you are using the numbers to support more general conclusions, about Iguodala's overall effectiveness as a slashing wing and about his overall effectiveness in the halfcourt offense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but saying "Iguodala's not a slashing wing" is a general statement, right?

And other statements like "[his] first step is average" and "his body control is below average" would apply to both shooting and passing. My response would be that his first step, handle, and body control are all above average, as evidenced by his ability to get into the lane and make effective passes. His poor shooting numbers on drives are more reflective of his basic lack of an intermediate [shooting] game (doesn't shoot jumpers off the dribble well, doesn't shoot runners at all).

Finally, returning to the opening of your article, you wrote, Andre Iguodala's commonly labeled a slashing wing player, requiring shooters on the perimeter to open up the lane for his forays into the paint. I've repeatedly disagreed with this assessment ... Again, this seems a general statement, and I would argue that having shooters on the perimeter makes the drive-and-kick that much more dangerous. If he goes 1 for 4 but his passes off penetration lead to 5 of 6 FGs, then the team has a 120 offensive efficiency rating off his penetrations -- so could he accurately be called a "slashing wing player" then?

[Note: I wrote the above before reading your latest post. Here is my response. The opening paragraph implies that you think it is inaccurate to call Iguodala a slashing wing player. The first concluding paragraph states, "Iguodala's not a slashing wing player." Both of those statements appear more general than the rest of the article intends. So if I come back to you and say that I think Iguodala is a slashing wing player, taking both shooting and passing into account, would you agree? Again, it's all probably a matter of semantics.]

I believe at this point you are arguing semantics. If you take those one or two statements you quoted as individual line statements it may sound like I'm making a general conclusion, but if you take them in the context of the rest of the paragraph I believe the intent is quite clear.

The article was about Iguodala's scoring tendency in the half court and his effectiveness in doing so. I even mentioned his ability to create in the half court specifically because I felt he was strong enough at it that, even within an article about scoring, it had to be mentioned.

I actually found a section in Synergy that has points per possession + assist. Unfortnately it doesn't break it down by play type, so it's exactly the data I'm looking for (for example, assists off post-ups are included in with assists swinging the ball around for jumpers which are included in with penetration assists).

In terms of "% of fga's and assists in the half-court that are assists", Iguodala's actually at the top of that group I posted. Now, that's typically weighted against big time scorers (harder to maintain % of possessions that result in assists the more possessions you use), but when you go "points per possession + assist in the half court", Iguodala does move up to 8th best (out of 14, meaning 8 are more efficient than him). Meaning his passing does move help him out significantly. But, again, this isn't only assists on drives, so it's not enough to formulate a 100% conclusion on the subject statman brought up.

I'll probably do a follow-up piece shortly on his passing.

(I'm re-iterating again that the original article was not intended to be an overall analysis of his half-court offensive game but how he scores his baskets).

"so it's exactly the data I'm looking for "

was supposed to be:

"so it's NOT exactly the data I'm looking for "

Also, one of the cool things about synergy is I can then pull up the video on every assist iguodala has in the half-court. Maybe one day I'll watch every assist and chart it myself.

God, what I wouldn't give for access to Synergy. I've even emailed them to see how much a license would cost, never got a response.

It truly is amazing. Outside of the obvious (like attending the draft), it's perhaps the best perk for working with DraftExpress.

this is great, thanks for taking the time to chart it and share it with us.

My thoughts are kind of muddled. I expect if you looked at a game-by-game chart of Iguodala's touches, a much larger percentage would show him driving and involving teammates regularly than remaining on the perimeter and settling for bad jumpers (the ratio is probably worse this year than the past two, thanks to the PO, though).

But we're looking at this in a vacuum. Even if we can agree that he produces like this, and it does boost his effectiveness as a slasher, we don't have this data on the other players on the list Derek compiled for his post, so we can't really say if he's a better/worse slasher unless we could get the full body of work for everyone on the list in this format, which simply isn't available (to my knowledge).

You can look at the periphal stats and infer things, for example Corey Maggette ranked higher than Iguodala as a slasher on Derek's list, but his assist numbers are so unbelievably poor you have to assume he isn't making any plays off penetration for teammates. But guys like Joe Johnson and LeBron, they could very well make more, I just don't know.

Anectdotally, it seems to me like Iguodala makes a lot of plays off penetration, compared to teammates and compared to players on the teams the Sixers play on a nightly basis at his position. I'm not sure I can state anything beyond that with any certainty.

Statman reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 14:10

I think anecdotally is the key word. Sports fans, including serious fans (myself included), generally have preconceived notions about players and teams and will focus on and choose to remember whatever plays tend to support those notions. Sometimes the statistics exist to support or disprove those notions. In this case (measuring the full effectiveness of penetrators), I doubt they do. But my main point is that to fully evaluate any player's effectiveness as a penetrator (not just Iguodala's), you have to account for passing (and free throws, where someone like Maggette would be off the charts).

Anecdotally, having watched the pretty much every minute of every Sixer game for the last 4 years, I would say that Iguodala has been the Sixers' most effective player by far at the drive-and-dish. As I've noted before, I think Andre Miller got almost none of his assists that way (if he drove, he was shooting), so just looking at his shot attempts on penetrations would be a more complete picture of Miller's effectiveness as a penetrator. Other players around the league are good at the drive-and-dish (LeBron and Joe Johnson are good, as noted, not to mention top-flight PGs like Chris Paul or Rondo), but Iguodala is definitely in the upper echelon of wing players in that area (top 3 IMHO).

Rich reply to Statman on Jan 6 at 13:49

These are great stats and I did think from watching that he was more aggressive than usual. Maybe what we can take from this is that Iguodala is usually highly effective when he is a aggressive and a slasher. Well, at least for one game it looked like he was, and on the subjective eye test, very good when he was on the attack. I don't see how we can trade this guy. If he is not on the floor last night we lose by a lot more than we did.

eddies' heady's on Jan 6 at 11:26

Too much swagger amongst ourselves, huh Dre? You couldn't have been talking about yourself could you?

No communication on defense huh? Seems like you were referring to yourself again. The only consistent communicator on defense I've seen this season is Elton Brand.

And to above, yes there's friction between Iguodala and Brand, and anyone else that threatens to approach his self-entitled throne of being the 'star' and 'franchise player'.

His stat-stuffing is just that - stat-stuffing. It's hollow. He doesn't have the make-up to be a leader. A leader that rallies his team and helps them win. He's too damn caught up in being the alpha male. To me, the chemistry starts and definitely ends with him.

Please start with him Ed, and relieve him from his misery and relieve me from the misery of watching him. And relieve the franchise of his burdensome contract for the next four years. Hey, why not start with your best and most valued piece as other GM's probably see him.

JohnEMagee reply to eddies' heady's on Jan 6 at 11:30

Yup - it's all Iguodalas fault

Operating on the flawed assumption that you aren't talking out of your ass, I'm curious to hear your evidence to back up any of these claims about how Iguodala only cares about his alpha dog status.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 15:21

What it boils down to, basketball aside, is that Iguodala comes off like a genuine prick when hes out there on the court. That certain swagger he tries to emulate doesn't work unless you are Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. I appreciate his winning attitude, but I guess I would liken it to Jason Avant playing with Desean Jackson's attitude. It just doesn't work if you don't have the game to back it up.Iggy wants to be the go to guy when in fact hes best suited as a spectacular sidekick

JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 6 at 17:00

And that's based on your (and others) perceptions, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

Iguodala has been bad mouthed (wrongly in my opinion) for HIS PLAY for way too long

Why is their such hatred on Iguodala lately? He was excellent last night despite having to play with AI, who was useless, despite having to play with EB and Thad (who I both like a lot) but were useless. He plays defense with Lou Williams, Kapono, Iverson, Willie, and Jordan's system.

I love EB but what does defensive communication have to do with anything? First, in a good system, the back line of defense, like EB in this case, has to communicate and be the one that is active. This is no knock on EB, who is doing his job, but come on, what us there to communicate? Jordan's system is absolute madness, and all we do is switch, so what need is their to communicate. I'm just making the point, "What is their to communicate, madness?"

It's too bad Iguodala grew up in a system where he had to be the #1 option. If he grew up in a system where he played with a ball handler like Nash or Deron Williams or a Lebron James (obviously these are some of the best ball handlers in the game, you know what I mean - distributors) he would learn to come off screens, play within his abilities, maybe learn a low post game, he could STILL stat stuff and be way more efficient and have fewer turnovers.

eddies' heady's reply to Shawn on Jan 6 at 12:14

Um...didn't he play with Andre Miller the last three years?

Yeah, and he had his best year the last few years in terms of points, and fg % Which is why he got his enormous contract. But still, he's in a system now that backfires against his talent.


Oh Gilbert. Pa Chu Pa Chu! I do hope he doesn't end up with jail time. Not only will I miss his real life antics, but my fantasy team will suffer without his production.

Oh, and um, the Sixers yeah, blow up the team, EJ sucks, yadda yadda rabble rabble.

JohnEMagee reply to Mike P on Jan 6 at 12:06

he should be suspended for the rest of the year, minimumly

Come on, he was just joking around. Like Kobe that time in Denver.

Rich reply to Mike P on Jan 6 at 14:07

My favorite sign from last night was, "Let's Disarm Agent Zero." The kids who had it, got it taken away, which received the loudest boo of the night.

I can't say I believe it, because it's just too ridiculous, but has anyone really considered the possibility that Eddie Jordan could be losing on purpose??????

I know, it's a crazy theory and just unimaginable, but if we consider it just for a second there is some evidence to back it up.

How many late game leads have we surrendered? How many times have we given up more then 30 points in the 4th quarter? How many times have we seen Eddie Jordan put our worst defensive team out there late in the game for no reason? Considering what happened last night, is it really possible????

Maybe Stephanski said to Eddie Jordan, "tank the season, comcast will help as much as they can to calm the media scrutiny, and I promise I won't fire you."

I'm pretty sure denial is one of the early stages of grief, so maybe I'm just there right now. But after watching last night's game, it has never seemed more possible that they are trying to tank the season.

JohnEMagee reply to scott on Jan 6 at 12:29

John Wall isn't worth tanking for - he's a very good player - he's not Lebron james...

As I understand it, all the problems that us fans seem to have with Jordan, wizards fans had with Eddie in Washington, they just had better offensive personnel to fit the Princeton Offense.

I don't think Jordan is losing on purpose, I think Jordan is a terrible coach

Shawn reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 12:35

Worrying about who we are tanking for is a useless exercise. All you can ask from tanking is being put in the position to take the best player available at the best available slot. It's all about value.

JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Jan 6 at 12:37

Fine, but even then, I don't think the sixers are tanking, occams razor - jordan is a terrible coach

ryano reply to scott on Jan 6 at 13:02

Interesting thought, and plausible except for the fact that he is coaching exactly the same way as he did in Washington. And unless we conclude Washington's management used Jordan the same way, we have to come to the conclusion that Jordan is just a bad coach and not losing strategically.

However, another thought might be that Stefanski brought in Jordan knowing he would tank the team while actually trying to win, thus the team can tank this year while Stefanski places the blame on Jordan. The only problem with this plan for Stefanski is that he didn't foresee Jordan's incompetence being this blatantly obvious. Maybe Stefanski really is a genius just using Jordan to get to a sure fire, inside information pick we don't know about, whether Wall or someone else. I kind've hope this crazy theory is the case.

JohnEMagee reply to ryano on Jan 6 at 13:18

Jordan is Stefanski's guy - I agree with brian that his future is tied to Jordan - so bringing him in to tank would probably not work out

ryano reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 13:31

Agreed...just throwing out a crazy conspiracy instead of repeating everyone's thoughts on Jordan/Stefanski again.

do you think they are lovers?

Statman on Jan 6 at 13:45

Last big post, here are the Sixers' defensive possessions in the 4th quarter last night. A closer look confirms a lot of Brian's initial impressions (see below). On each Wizards shot, I charted who was guarding the shooter. I subjectively marked down "challenged" if the defender got a hand in the shooter's face. If the shooter was wide open, I wrote down "lost" along with the reason.

Sixers defensive possessions 4th quarter:
oberto lay-up 80-80 (Sam lost on P/R double team)
NYoung 9-ft jumper missed (AI3 challenged)
Blatche travel (Sam)
(Foye subs for NYoung)
DStevenson 3-pt missed (AI3)
(Thad subs for Kapono)
Blatche 16-ft fadeaway 82-84 (Sam challenged)
(Lou subs for Brand)
Butler 12-ft missed (AI3 challenged)
Foye 17-ft made 84-84 (Lou - bad D)
Foye offensive foul in transition (Lou)
Jamison 3-ft lay-up 86-86 (AI9 lost on switch)
Foye 20-ft missed (Lou challenged)
(NYoung subs for DStevenson)
Jamison 17-ft missed (Thad)
Jamison lost ball (Sam steals)
NYoung 3-pt made 89-90 (AI3 lost on sag/hedge)
NYoung lay-up + FT in transition 92-90 (Lou turnover)
NYoung 15-ft made 94-90 (AI3)
NYoung 11-ft missed (AI3 challenged)
Jamison 22-ft made 96-90 (Thad lost on P/R double team)
Jamison lay-up 98-92 (Lou lost on P/R switch)
Butler 17-ft made 100-92 (AI3 challenged)
Blatche lay-up 102-94 (Sam challenged)
Arenas open 3-pt missed (Lou)
Jamison off. rebound lay-in 104-94 (Thad)
Blatche bad pass (Lou steals)

vs. Sam: 3 of 3 (2 challenged), 2 turnovers
vs. AI9: 1 of 1
vs. AI3: 3 of 7 (4 challenged)
vs. Thad: 2 of 3
vs. Lou: 2 of 4 (1 challenged), 1 turnover
transition: 1 of 1 + 1 FT, 1 turnover

12 of 19, 1 3-pt, 1 FT, 3 turnovers
11 of 18 in halfcourt (1 3-pt)
- 3 of 7 when challenged
- 2 of 5 jumpers loosely challenged
- 5 of 5 (1 3-pt) wide open ("lost")
- 1 of 1 off. rebound

* Generally speaking, Washington's offensive strategy for the 4th quarter could be described simply as:
(1) run a pick and roll (P/R)
(2) if the Sixers don't defend the P/R well, take the shot that results
(3) if the Sixers DO defend the P/R well, run an isolation with whoever Iverson or Lou are guarding

Doesn't that seem all too logical? And couldn't the Sixers be trained to do the same thing by a half-decent coach?

* As Brian noted, a decent defensive lineup was in for less than a minute (1 defensive possession), where Blatche hit a crazy fadeaway over Sam.

* Every Sixer defender lost his man at least once on a P/R situation.

* Iverson actually showed good effort on D and challenged a lot of the shots against him, but he's just too short to effectively challenged Nick Young or Butler. I wonder whose fault that is?

* No shots at all for Arenas until the very end of the quarter, when the game was decided (but 5 assists).

Rich reply to Statman on Jan 6 at 14:17

Great stats again. 12 of 19 wide open shots in crunch time, unbelievable. The Wizards used pick and roll to say that the Sixers would find a way to screw it up. Any type of player movement is like reading Chinese for the Sixers defense and an Iso can get a great shot a ton of times because of the terrible defensive unit he closes with.

Here's my huge problem though- Thad is absolutely lost. His last 5 games (all with Iverson) are one of the most discouraging trends of the season. Not only are we not seeing Thad play the 3 (My bad, he actually got 35 whole seconds), but he is floundering at the 4.

Dave reply to Rich on Jan 6 at 15:56

Yep... two of our moron, EJ's, most destructive decisions, to which he is completely and irretrievably committed, are:

1) The combination of Lou and A.I. in the game at the same time.

2) Thad playing PF.

In sum, Idiot's favorite lineup (A.I., Lou, Iggy, Thad, and Sammy) has 0% chance of succeeding against anybody.

I think you should be "challenged" next to Lou, AI and Young's names. Because they are all defensively challenged and teams pick on them and challenge them to cover them.

There is a reason why so many shots were taken against AI. They went after him because he is so undersized at SG. His man may not have hit many shots, but that does not tell the whole story (other than Young did not step up his game down the stretch.) Like the other night when EJ had AI guarding players 6'6-6'9" and constantly sending help. All of the rotations do as much harm as anything else.

JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 17:13

Arenas suspended indefinitely

David Stern also advocates sixers tanking :)

Mike P reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 6 at 19:14

And there goes my fantasy season! Time to blow it up!

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