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In EJ's defense, everyone fibs a little bit when they are trying to get a new job.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 8 at 13:42
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I'm going to say Tom Thibodeau :)

If only EJ could stress those defensive aspects to the team and actually abide by them.

I know who said those quotes... but I won't give it away.

Hint, June 4th, 2009.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 8 at 14:05
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Sigh

Winner. What a jackass.

When I read the quotes, my initial guess was Jrue. Probably not right but he seems to understand defense. If he could only get the ball enough when he is open, maybe he could score so EJ would keep him in the game.

It's Eddie Jordan. Those were his answers to a couple of pointed questions about defense that were asked during the blogger conference call back in June.

Not real bad answers, correct. Just proves he is an horrible coach using his quotes!

"rockets send tracy mcgrady to 76ers and send joey dorsey to kings. kings send kenny thomas to rockets and send sean may and sergio rodriguez to 76ers. 76ers send samuel dalembert to kings and mareese speights and jason kapono to rockets."

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=14911

I pull this trigger in a second. Hate giving up Mareese but it is worth it.

When you boil this deal down, the Sixers are trading Speights to get under the luxury tax level next season, and possibly be able to spend MLE-level money on a player. You're getting out from under one season of Dalembert and Kapono's deals, but you aren't creating enough cap space to make a legitimate improvement this summer (between $5M-$8M).

Is it worth trading Speights to simply avoid paying the lux tax to you?

What a horrible deal. You lose a potential stud PF, and your best trading asset... all to save money for 1 season. And you still have 3+ more seasons of Brand/Iguodala at 28-33M per year clogging up what the team can do. That would represent a kill shot for me as a Sixer fan until management was gone.

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Inviolable Fandom reply to T on Jan 8 at 15:30
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Me likes.

I'm starting to think we covet our own guys way too much. To quote Jack Donoughy from last night's 30 Rock "you gotta climb deeper into the cravass"

What do you like about the deal, specifically?

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Inviolable Fandom reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 16:01
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Specifically, it gives us 3 veteran all stars. 3 guys that can impart a lot of wisdom onto the jrues and thads. We are dead in the water right now. We wait and wait for development but how are they going to develop. Playing with other inexperienced guys. I don't know any team that became contenders on development of youth. Baby bulls? Nope. Portland? Jury's still out. If mcgrady can mature his game to the same level as iverson it would be a competitve squad.

Most wouldn't agree but I would then try trading iggy for dunleavy and hibbert.

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JohnEMagee reply to Inviolable Fandom on Jan 8 at 16:07
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Seriously? You want to pay guys for that? If one of those guys is Tracy Mcgrady I want him NO WHERE NEAR any of the guys who are expected to contribute when this team is ready to win

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Inviolable Fandom reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 8 at 16:13
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What do you mean? He's a salary dump. It's obsurd to think there's nothing mcgrady has to offer young players. Remember ai has an awful rap as well.

McGrady is about even with his cousin on the "imparting my wisdom on young players" list.

If they trade for McGrady, they aren't trading for McGrady the player, they're trading for the expiring contract.

From McGrady's perspective, if he comes in here he's playing for a new contract next season, period. He's going to be jacking shots left and right, playing no defense and praying he can prove he can still score 20 points-per-game.

You're basically reciting the company line we'd hear from Stefanski if the deal was made, but the fact of the matter is they wouldn't give a crap if McGrady never put the uniform on.

Oh, and if you're talking about this team being better this season, it's 100% not going to happen if they trade Dalembert without getting a defensive center in return.

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Inviolable Fandom reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 16:39
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Is iverson jacking up shots? Is iverson playing for a contract? It does make since think the guys is gonna come out and just try to score to the teams detriment. It makes more sense for him to show he can make a team better doing whatever it takes alla ai.

By the way speights jacks up shots and tries to get the ball back with tenacity so he can Jack another.

And regarding the center I'd try trading iggy for hibbert and dunleavy. You can't build a team around a guy like iggy. But if you had a young center and point guard with some vets to learn from all with high bball iqs. I think that would be the quickest way to the promised land.

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Inviolable Fandom reply to Inviolable Fandom on Jan 8 at 16:41
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Doesn't make sense...

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JohnEMagee reply to Inviolable Fandom on Jan 8 at 18:37
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You can't build a team around guys like hibbert or dunleavy either...not sure what you hatred of Iguodala is but it sounds like you're one of those who doesn't get what he can do and what he does do and expect him to do things that hae NEVER been part of his repetoire and expecting him to do so is not a flaw of him but a flaw of the fan.

I'm not sure what your iverson comments have to do with anyone else - there''s no transitive property of behavior

But the team's biggest problem is trying to get out from under Brands Phillymax deal. While this deal is a win/save now move that further pushes rebuilding back to never. Might as well finish it off by sending Thad + Filler for Redd and have a compete older/broken/overpaid roster of:

AI/Redd/Iguodala/TMac/Brand and Sam.

Talk about a great roster for 4 years ago.

But I do agree that we overvalue our young players. They have potential (offensive for Thad/Speights, Defensive/creator for Jrue), but none look to have superstar potential. No one should be seen as untouchable on the roster. But all things equal, I'd rather keep the young guys. At worst they are good assets down the road and you have to start somewhere.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 8 at 16:00
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Whether we do or don't over rate young players is debateable.

Speights has been in the league less than a season and a half and had 3 coaches already - including the wasteoid of a coach this season...and he's how old? Giving up on a kid after that little time is short sighted...

And his career per 36 min stats:
18pts, 8.5reb, 51%, 1.5blks... and numbers better this year compared to last.

Compared to otehr top offensive bigs:

http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2009-12-22/Speights-offensive-productivity

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Inviolable Fandom reply to tk76 on Jan 8 at 16:09
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I don't agree that brands contract is our biggest problem. Our biggest problem is that we have a coach unwilling to take advantage of our strength contrary to what he said in the quotes above. Also Andres contract in my opinion is worse that brands for the simple fact of what has our other young talent expecting.
If I'm speights and look at what iggy and Sam are making I'm expecting $10 mill easy. Wewill not be able to pay our youth when the time comes. And yes I realize brands contract comes into play there but he's a career 20-10. He's earned throughout his career even I'd he might not deserve it now.

Our biggest problem this year is E.J.

Our biggest problem trying to contend in the next 4 seasons is the Phillymax contract for a non-superstar.

Basically you're saying send Sam, Speights and Igoudala out the door to bring back Sergio Rodriguez, Sean May, Roy Hibbert, Micheal Dunleavy Jr and minimal cap relief.

So a...

- solid defensive center, albeit overpaid
- a young raw offensive juggernaut
- one of the most well rounded players in the NBA

for a...

- backup PG
- taco stand
- injury prone aging player
- Good young center
- couple bucks

Madness

Question/hypothetical/Challenge:

Lets say you can't/won't trade away Brand and Iguodala. Those are the constants on the roster.

Withing the restraints of the tax, build the best starting 5 you can with non-superstar players as the other 3 starters. Who would fit best with those two over the next 3 years? Try and add players who are conceivably obtainable (but you don't have to give a trade scenario.)

Maybe:

Ty (pushes pace, hits jumpers, good pick and roll player)
Rudy (Great shot, pushes pace, but maybe not enough D?)
Iguodala
Brand
Camby

Can's have two useless defenders the guards in my opinion, I'd actually like that lineup if it was

Jrue
Gay
Iguodala
Brand
Camby

Then you're only hiding Gay, the other four are good defenders. Gay is going to be your primary weapon on offense most likely, with Brand as your inside threat, but probably not enough outside shooting.

I'd actually prefer this to that, thinking twice

Jrue
K. Martin
Iguodala
Brand
Camby

Not sure you could fit that under the tax.

Generally teams commit 40M to their top 3-4 players. Those teams would be closer to 50M over the course of the next 3-4 years. But I guess you could do that if the rest of your roster was inexpensive.

You'd have to get rid of Lou's contract and get Camby for the MLE (which is a distinct possibility this summer). Then fill out the roster w/ cheap pieces. This is the payroll for 2011:

Brand: $17M
Iguodala: $13.1M
Thad: $3.9M (QO)
Speights: $2.7M
Jrue: $1.7M
J. Smith: $3.3M (QO, though I'd let him walk and draft another big)
Kevin Martin: $11.5M

Plus two first-round picks, one in his second year. That's $53M for 8 players. Actually, probably cheaper than the lineup you had w/ Gay in there instead of Martin. I think Gay gets a big deal this summer.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 16:20
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A lot of guys are going to get big deals this ummer and it's going to be funny - there''s only one lebron, one wade, one bosh, one amare - but LOTS of teams are clearing cap space to sign them and i think at most 2 of those 4 leave their teams (bosh/amare) - so you'll have teams with a lot of cap room who then over pay to justify to their fan base clearing that cap room...joe johnson is good but he's going to get over paid, so is gay and david lee and probably even nate robinson will get too much money.

Yeah, I guess that works if you sign Camby to the MLE. I was assuming he could demand more, or at least and escalating 3 year deal, but who knows what happens this summer.

I was mostly curious in trying to see how Iguodala and Brand could be maximized on the right roster.

Where do you see that team finishing? My guess would be 52-58 wins an 2nd round or ECF.

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The Greek on Jan 8 at 16:11
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Trade speculation is just a waste of time. Easy Ed doesn't like to work before the trade deadline, he prefers to wax his shiny head in various oils instead.

What we should be talking about is the draft.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jan 8 at 16:14
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No reason intelligent people can't discuss both

But I can only discuss one... so what are you saying? Momma always said...

The Korver trade came significantly before the deadline.

Has Ed made any deadline trades?

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deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jan 8 at 18:28
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My lineup would be Jrue, M.Ellis, Iggy, Elton and Aldrich.

In regards to the overrating our own players thing, yes I do think we that. I know that I myself have unhealthy expectations for Thaddeus that will probably never come true. I do think that we have to give up one of our young guys eventually, and getting rid of Sammy D AND clearing space for a guy who doesn't play a lick of defense might be something we should look into. After all, if all 3 of our young guys develop like we hope there's no way we could pay them.

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bebopdeluxe on Jan 8 at 19:10
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I do not want to trade ANYBODY of value until we have a real coach on this team.

fair enough point


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