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Trade For Prince?

deepsixersueder on Jan 11 at 14:06

What if Jrue is who he wants?

Then you tell him to go eff himself

Lou gets bashed a lot, but I think he brings good value for a productive 23 year old scoring guard making 5M/yr. Every team needs a guard who can flat out score, and unless you see AI staying long term, I think Lou fits the bill.

I would sacrifice Young to get out from under Brands contract. It would hurt, but is necessary.

eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Jan 11 at 14:21

Lou could be alot less ridiculed if he wasn't exposed being a starter. He is the proper guy to be your scoring punch off the bench with a not-so-bad contract. He is much better suited to play off the ball coming off the bench instead of lead guard though because his decision making and court vision is sorely lacking.

If they aren't going to eventually move Thad to the bench (where he could thrive along with Lou), then if he had to go w/Brand to free up that money, I would feel about as bad as trading Ivey.

deepsixersueder reply to tk76 on Jan 11 at 14:36

Do you ever think he will give up less than he gets ? If he can hit the 3 for league average he is worth keeping, to me but otherwise ?

His shot selection is my biggest beef. he needs to either hit 3's at a good percentage or not take so many.

As for defense and pure PG ability- he is what he is. I agree with eddie's that he is out of place as the starting PG of a defensively challenged team. And I feel Lou brings some unique things to the table in terms of applying pressure to a defense and drawing fouls. His defensive effort needs to improve, but I think he's worth having at his current contract even with his below average defense.

The way I see it, $5-6M under the cap is more valuable than Lou at that price. When you have the money under the cap, you can use it to sign and/or trade for an impact player. Then you can go over the cap to bring in a comparable player for the MLE if that's the finishing touch.

Personally, I think Lou's probably a luxury for this team, at this point. You can add a guy to fit the role he'd ideally fit later down the road, probably at a lower cost. I'd love to his contract off the books for the summer of 2011.

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jan 11 at 16:20

Flip Murray is available every year for just a bit more than the minimum.

I think the Pistons would start with Jrue Holliday. Jrue Holliday & Sammy for Prince & Kwame? Close in salary. Wouldn't want to go there.

The only way I even think about doing the deal is if we get one of the longer contracts off the books (Brand or Lou). Doesn't make sense at all to do it for Sammy

I'd trade Lou and Willie in a millisecond...without a thought.

I would consider Brand for Prince + deadbeat contract.

Anything else would be a no-go.

I am thinking any deal involving Brand and a team wanting a guard would have to include Jrue.

At this point I am thinking Brand + Jrue and/or Thad is the only way a team takes Brand under any circumstances.

I'd do just about anything to get rid of Lou so the first deal you proposed works for me. I like it also because it moves Thad to the bench, which is where I think he belongs anyway and it nets us Detroit's 2nd and 3rd best rebounders while not hurting us financially long-term.

Also, why exactly does Dumars want a point guard all of a sudden after he traded away a finals MVP point guard for no good reason? I can't imagine he is looking for merely a long-term back up point in a deal involving Prince.

As I've said befoer, I'd trade away anyone in order to get out from under Brand's Phillymax deal. Even though I am starting to appreciate what Brand brings to a team now that he is rounding into form. But don't see the team contending built around Brnad and Iguodala's big contracts.

I see Jrue, Thad, Speights and Lou as all being good players that can help a good team. I'm not in a rush to unload any of them. But you would need a carrot to find a taker for Brand's big contract- even though he could really help some teams.

What do you think the outside perception is for the Sixers young players in terms of value. I am thinking teams would rank our players (team specific positional needs aside):

1. Speights
2. Jrue
3. Thad
4. Lou

Tough because probably a wide range of opinions amongst GM's. But given you only have to find one GM to deal with:

1. Speights: near Al Jeff value- so could be part of a superstar deal.

2.Young: Despite major struggles this year I think some GM's are still very high on his upside.

3. Lou: Again, a GM who wants offense will value Lou. His numbers in isolation are very strong this year.

4. Jrue: 16 teams passed on him last summer. A player taken a few picks later has already been given away as part of cap relief. Personaly, he's the player I most want to watch, but I doubt he's worth much.

JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 11 at 16:25

1. Speights: near Al Jeff value- so could be part of a superstar deal.

Talk about fans over rating their players...

I think Speights projects out to produce near Al Jefferson type numbers. Neither guy is a stud defender or a good/willing passer. Both specialty is putting the ball in the whole with Jefferson's rebounding numbers being slightly better per 36.

I don't think it's overrating, I just think when considering a trade for a young, non starter, non big minute player all you can do is project out what he could be if given a bigger role. For Speights, in terms of production Jefferson isn't a bad comp.

JohnEMagee reply to Dannie on Jan 11 at 16:37

I think it's a bit much - because teams will learn that when the ball goes to Speights, he doesn't pass, so you double team him and force up a bad shot...jefferson doesn't pass 'a lot' but he averages 2 assists per game - whereas 2 assists in a game for speights might be his career high.

At this time - Jefferson is an 'is' - and Speights is a 'might be' - they do not have equal trade value.

I think speights is closer to Charlie Villanueva then Al Jefferson right now. His lack of effort/concentration on defense is a red flag. He's a black hole(probably encouraged by the coach)on offense. I think he has potential and that's it right now.

God, Charlie V is the last comp I want to hear for any guy on my roster. I'm not saying it's inaccurate, just that it depresses the hell out of me, and we have two guys playing like that right now.

In terms of value around the league right now, I'd say they're in this order:

1. Speights
2. Lou
3. Thad
4. Jrue

Mainly because it's pretty clear that more than half of the teams could care less about defense, and "scoring" is all the rage these days. Plus, people seem to think it's easier to teach young players to defend, but scoring is an innate ability. Whether that's true or not is another debate, though.

Inviolable Fandom on Jan 11 at 15:41

Lou and Willie deal is my fave for two reasons:
1.) I hate Willie.
2.) I love Jrue.

I like Lou a lot but he's more an, uhhh, accessory, like rims on a hoopty. Losing him would be collateral damage but its an exceptable loss.

Our D would be sick!

the sixers should probably not make this deal considering both thad and ai play the three spot. What they really need to do is pickup a center that can shoot the three like andrea bargnani. Jordan forces brand to play the center because hes on the blocks and you cant have a center and power forward playing the blocks at the same time. A stretch center would work with brand and its probably too hard to move brand.

JohnEMagee reply to paul on Jan 11 at 16:40

Or you just fire Jordan, hire a better coach and stop making this team softer...

Inviolable Fandom reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 11 at 16:52

If you got a center that shoots threes on occasion, he better grab 12 boards regularly and block like 2 shots per game. Basically, he needs to be more of a Sheed than a Frye.

johnrosz on Jan 11 at 16:40

Has anyone heard the story in the Washington Post about Gilbert Arenas taking a dump in Blatche's shoe as a rookie prank a few years back? That doesn't sound like harmony and effort to me. No players respect Eddie Jordan, can you imagine something like that happening in Adelman's or Phil Jacksons locker room? I sure can't....

The article went on to mention that EJ got on Arenas to become a better defender too, so i guess take the whole story with a grain of salt...

JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 11 at 16:45

If it was in the Washington Post there's a link right?

If I was on his team, I'd take a dump on Jordan's clipboard.

It might make his game-plan stink LESS.

johnrosz on Jan 11 at 16:48

Like the first deal, but Detroit would never do that. Stefanski guarantees his future if he could do that which would: a. Upgrade in present and b. Clear more space for 2011. A Williams/Stuckey back-court (maybe Rip at 3) would be laughable defensively. If I were Detroit, I would keep Stuckey and get him a good defender and shooter and the 2 who doesn't need the ball. Maybe like a Raja Bell. Lou Williams (and Willie) are not close to what they need. Dumars was stupid enough to make the Denver deal last year and then turn around and get Charlie V and Ben Gordon.

Though it would hurt, I'd also move Young to get rid of Brand's fat contract. Assuming the deal you outlined is the one they make (heck of an assumption), I'd ask for a future first or one of Jonas Jerebko, Austin Daye, or Dajuan Summers along with the deal. A young, cheap small forward to ease the loss of Young that can develop into a solid player, or a pick we could use in the future.

In my mind, however, the odds of us getting Prince are pretty slim. The first deal would be lovely though.

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