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Sixers Could Be In On McGrady

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Gerry Mac on Jan 12 at 18:47
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The only way I would do this deal, is if Brand is the filler for this trade. Other than that, no way in hell I would even consider this trade.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 12 at 18:52
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Jordan said in his post game PC (courtesy of NBA.com) that lou suffered some sort of injury in yesterdays game (they were vague about what) so maybe he was just resting it.

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The Greek on Jan 12 at 18:54
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Brian I know that you love and I mean love AI2, but his contract is terrible. I know that you have several charts and lists that refute that, but all I will say when the game is on the line I don't want that guy 10 near the ball. And why does he always make the who farted in my face look? He is a good player who should be making 8 mill a year max. Trade him for cap room? maybe but the real goal should be to trade him for a real SG, you know one who could actually shoot. I know we haven't seen that since the days of the Hawk.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 18:57
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And why does he always make the who farted in my face look?

What does this have to do with absolutely anything?

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 12 at 19:11
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Some people are believers in body language. Look at the way Mcnabb acted before the Dallas game, playing the air guitar, acting goofy, constantly smiling at critical junctures of the game....I think a lot of people realized we were screwed when they saw that. You can say the same about Iggy, he's not afraid to show his displeasure with other teammates although he makes his fair share of head scratching mistakes.

To answer your question, it has nothing to do with his contract, but it's been noted that his demeanor rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 12 at 19:17
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Oh I see...well that makes things easier for me

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The Greek reply to johnrosz on Jan 12 at 20:01
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John, you hit the nail on the head. I am a huge believer in body language and leadership skills. A leader needs to have good body language if he is afterall going to leading others. Iggy's body language is that of a pure whiny bitch loser, could you imagine someone like Derek Jeter making those fart faces? No you can't because Jeter is a winner and a leader.

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johnrosz reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 20:40
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I'd prefer a Chase Utley comparison, due to my complete and utter disgust with anyone affiliated with the Yankees. But a valid point for sure

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 21:57
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I just threw up in my mouth a little

Maybe he should have been on that ESPN under appreciated poll since his own 'fans' don't even get it

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Rich reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 19:07
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That's fine that you don't want him to have the ball at the end of the game. I personally do, but if paired with the correct type of scorer, he could be the best overall player on a championship team.

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The Greek reply to Rich on Jan 12 at 19:55
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Rich is Brand that type of player? Because with the money that there both making it will be nearly impossible to bring in and pay that guy who can be a number one option on offense.

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Rich reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 20:07
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Absolutely correct, and as much as I admire his game, I don't think that he is that kid of player. That is why I believe that it would be more beneficial to move Brand than Iguodala. Iguodala is younger and entering the prime of his career and healthier. If he is a little overpaid, that's fine, but it's only 2 mil off as I would like it to be around 10 mil a year. He just does too much stuff for this team. I think that it would be more of a wing player, but Brand doesn't really have it and is the one I would like to see shopped. Hard thing to do though.

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The Greek reply to Rich on Jan 12 at 20:37
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Rich to be honest with you I am really starting to love everything that Brand is giving us. For the life of me I can't figure out what Eddie "The Malaka" Jordon doesn't play him for 35 minutes a night. I love his energy, his attitude, his hustle, his hard fouls, his communications skills on the court, and his offensive game which is getting back to the form of his clipper days. This guy is a baller, now if we could only get him in the starting lineup.

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Rich reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 20:46
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Totally agree with all of that except we can both agree he is overpaid and his contract will hurt when he gets older, no?

I love the way he has been playing for most of the year, though his rebounding has been down recently. A leader who still has a lot of game left in the tank. Just not worth the Philly Max that we gave him.

FYI:

"In every day modern Greek speech, the word malakas is mostly used metaphorically to define the targeted individual as one who uses absolutely no common sense, but instead repeats the same mistakes while maintaining an attitude of self-righteousness"

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The Greek reply to tk76 on Jan 12 at 21:20
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lol TK, yes that is the proper use for it. It also refers to my 2 friends who are Nets fans who during there glory days earlier in the last decade proclaimed Eddie Jordon as the brains behind that Nets team. Malaka is singular for what EJ is and Malakes is plural for what my friends are being that they gave me wrong info.

The description sounds spot on.

I get that you don't like him. I disagree, but I get it. You really need to do some research though. Do you realize the type of players who make $8M/year on their second contracts? We're talking about Jamal Crawford, Boris Diaw, TJ Ford, Quentin Richardson, that type of player.

I'd love to know what you think about Tim Dunan's "who me?" face. Or Kobe Bryant's "Don't you know who I am face?" or Michael Jordan's "I can't believe I didn't get that call face." Because for some reason you seem to think Iguodala invented making faces at the refs for bad calls, and you seem to think for some reason those faces make him a poor leader while with those other guys it's for some reason acceptable.

For his sake, I almost wish Iguodala would get traded and go somewhere where the fan base would even come close to appreciating him for the player he is, rather than being so blind to anything but ppg and perceived leadership.

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The Greek reply to Brian on Jan 12 at 20:33
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Brian, I think that days of scrubs being handed 8 mill a year are over. I believe that all teams in all sports have begun or will become more fiscally responsible. You make a good point about Kobe stink face, but the thing is Kobe is whole lot better then Iggy is and ever will be. Kobe is a number one guy, sadly I have given up hope on Iggy being a number one guy on a good team. I am not a ppg freak, but when your making 12-15 mill a season your expected to score points. This guy has been our leader along with Dre Miller the past couple of seasons, the problem is he hasn't led us to anywhere.

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Rich reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 20:43
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That goes back to Iggy needing another guy who can score. It's true that Kobe is a better player, but throughout his career, he has been surrounded by better talent than Iguodala has had in his career. Kobe's two highest scoring season, 05/06 and 06/07, he had terrible talent around him. His brilliance got him to a 1st Round exit both years as a 7 seed which sounds a lot like... Andre Iguodala! His 4 titles were when he always had another low-post guy with him in Shaq and Gasol with an exceptional supporting cast both times. Iggy has never had that.

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The Greek reply to Rich on Jan 12 at 21:27
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Take away Gasol from the Lakers and add Elton Brand and they still win the whole thing. Take away Brand from the Sixers and give us Gasol and we will still be a struggling club.

Rich I agree that Brand is overpaid, but I am in the minority in that I believe that he has 3 effective seasons left. Now if he could only crack the starting lineup.

You are massively underrating Pau Gasol. There is a reason he is considered the best low-post scorer in the game today.

Brand, even though he is coming on, is not at that level.

Anyone remember what Kobe did after Shaq left and before Pau got there?

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 21:59
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You mean like Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva?

First you can determine a player by the faces he makes and then you forget that crap contracts to mediocre players were just handed out last season to make your point while ignoring things like how the man plays basketball.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jan 12 at 20:42
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Those individuals all have multiple rings, and are elite players that have earned the right to do whatever they want. No offense, but who the fuck is Andre Iguodala

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Jeff reply to johnrosz on Jan 12 at 21:21
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I believe he got the award for most minutes played last year...

but in all seriousness, none of those superstars that were mentioned would have won a championship without a good coach and supporting cast.
Try to argue that as much as you want, you'll still be wrong. It's not the player that makes the team. And once again, this debate appears more and more like a ppg argument...
I'm not trying to say Iguodala is that caliber of a player, but I think most people would agree that he would perform better and be more respected if given good, veteran teammates and a fundamentally sound coach.

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Jan 12 at 21:48
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He's a lot of things (some bad, but not many), but he's a guy who hasn't played with anyone better than Andre Miller.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 18:15
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Thank you

iguodala has hit more game winners than iverson has in his entire career. not sure why you wouldn't want the ball in his hands during crunch time when all he does is produce in big moments.

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The Greek reply to mike on Jan 12 at 21:36
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How many big moments have we had recently? Thads putback versus the Magic in the playoffs was a bigger bucket then Iggy has ever had. I know that Iggy drained winners versus the lakers and grizzlies last season but has he ever really truly had a big moment?

Look I don't hate the dude, I'm just sick of rooting for a freakin basketball team that besides 2001 hasn't given me any joy since the early to mid 80's when I was just a kid.

Hinson for the number one pick and Moses for Ruland.......our franchise has never recovered....


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Rich reply to The Greek on Jan 12 at 21:40
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Game 1 vs. Magic last year was the biggest shot for Iggy and it was pretty darn clutch.

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The Greek reply to Rich on Jan 12 at 21:44
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yes your right it was, but still were talking about game one of the first round.

This argument just gets sillier and sillier. So if it was the seventh game of the conference finals you'd bitch that it wasn't the 7th game of the finals.

Do this for me, name one tangible thing that Iguodala does not do. You aren't in the locker room, so what you think about his leadership is your opinion. I'm talking about one thing, on the basketball court, that he does not do for this team. The only answer is score 20+ppg. That's your entire argument. The rest of this nonsense is just to make up for that fact that you can't see past his scoring average. You think a team's best player has to be a guy who scores more than 20 ppg. That's fine. It's myopic, but fine. You're wrong, but that's fine.

Just come right out and say it immediately next time so we don't have to waste all this time beating around the bush.

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Tray reply to Brian on Jan 12 at 22:54
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"You think a team's best player has to be a guy who scores more than 20 ppg. That's fine. It's myopic, but fine. You're wrong, but that's fine."

Well with the exception of two Pistons teams, both of which played in a much lower-scoring era than the one we're in, teams that win the Finals are typically led by a player who not only scores 20, but scores quite a bit over 20, and does so efficiently. Hoping that we too become one of the great historic outliers that wins without a traditional sort of franchise talent is like trying to win the World Series with a terrible pitching staff. It's been done a couple times, but as a matter of probabilities, you'd be much better off going out and paying for/drafting good pitchers.

Second, in all of the cases where a champion's best player was a guy who wasn't a mega-scorer - Isaiah Thomas, Ben Wallace if you want to argue he was their best player, Tim Duncan if you want to say he's not a huge scorer - they all played positions where you can have a much bigger impact not scoring than SG/SF. Iguodala may be a great defender, nice passer, nice rebounder, but he just guards one guy, he doesn't have the ball in his hands enough to make that great an impact with his passing, and he's not going to singlehandedly make you a great rebounding team the way some big men can. It's nice that he's the best at his position at doing this and that, but he simply plays the wrong position for those skills to matter that much. (Besides which, he's not really this otherwordly passer or rebounder; he's just one of the best passers and rebounders at a position where most players can't pass or rebound.) Could a team built around Ron Artest win a championship? Could a team built around Bruce Bowen win a championship, if Bruce Bowen had been a better passer? Andre Iguodala, offensively, is Richard Jefferson. A guy who, now that he's on a good team, scores 13 a game. That's what Iguodala would do if we had legitimate options around him. Is there any precedent in the history of the sport for a shooting guard with that little offensive ability leading his team to a championship? Of course not, and why in the world would there ever be?

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Jeff reply to Tray on Jan 12 at 23:32
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"(Besides which, he's not really this otherwordly passer or rebounder; he's just one of the best passers and rebounders at a position where most players can't pass or rebound.) "

...a bit of a self-contradiction?

Also, if we sum up your redundant argument, you're saying that a championship team needs to have a SG/SF who averages well over 20ppg, other skills aren't essential, and Iguodala has "little offensive ability."

???????????????????????

Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but can you explain to me why a dominant PF grabbing 1.5 more rebounds than say an above average PF is more valuable to team rebounding than a dominant SG/SF grabbing 1.5 more rebounds than say an above average SG/SF?

In the grand scheme of things, why is superior rebounding at one position worth more or less than superior rebounding at any other position. In fact, wouldn't superior rebounding at a position not associated with rebounding have a greater impact than superior rebounding at a position where rebounding is already expected? Kind of like having a short stop that hits 30 HR and drives in 100 runs, lessening the need for run production from corner infield/outfield positions in baseball?

Each day I wonder what new and exciting ways people will come up with to devalue Iguodala. This is a new one, though. It doesn't matter that he's a great playmaker and rebounder because he isn't a PF/C or a PG. That's a good one.

And one other thing, how many dominant post players are there in the league? Are there really any? Duncan is the only pure post player averaging over 20ppg, I believe. How many wings average more than 20ppg? Doesn't that put the premium on wing defenders over bigs in the "new" NBA?

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Rich reply to Tray on Jan 12 at 23:55
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When did Bruce Bowen become comparable to Iguodala? Come on, Bowen was a great 5th guy who provided two things only, wing defense and corner threes. Why are we comparing a 40 % shooter who got wide open shots with the best PF of all time and 2 other stars to a 46 % shooter who plays with Sammy an has to take shots at the end of the shot-clock. It's a lot more than passing that separates Iguodala and Bowen.

Brian,

Last year there was a discussion on a blog, do not remember which one but I remember Kate being involved, IA9 was in the top 5 +/- for most of the year with Kobe, James, Wade in the 5. I really think this has been argued for a year and it is clear the IA9 (on number facts) is well worth his money. Is he worth his money on a specific team depends on the other players on his team. Until the 76ers get a "coach", IA9 will never be able to be used to his best potential.

Anyway, I do not think people that do not like IA9 will agree with you if the Bible said it as fact.

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Tray reply to DeanH on Jan 12 at 23:54
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The fact that we get a lot better when our leading scorer, best one-on-one defender, best passer, second best rebounder is on the court does not seem to me to be a knockdown argument for the greatness of Andre Iguodala. Yes, he's our best player. And yes, there's a yawning gap between him and the second best guy on this team or last year's team. But isn't that more of an indictment of his supporting cast than proof of how good Iguodala is? Iguodala is a player, like Artest last year, like Scottie Pippen in Jordan's retirement years, who does all kinds of wonderful stuff, but is not enough of a scorer, and not playing a position where all that wonderful stuff has enough of an impact, to take his team past the second round. And he's not exactly even Scottie Pippen either. I know people here like telling this fantasy story where one day Iguodala will shut down Kobe and LeBron and Joe Johnson and Wade in the playoffs, and Jrue shuts down all the points, while Thad or Speights supplies all the scoring, these players who we don't have yet do the shooting, and Marcin Gortat grabs all the rebounds, but there is no real-world analogy to that team. Partly because there is no such thing as a defender who's good enough to actually shut down superstar after superstar. No matter who you put on a player like Kobe or LeBron, they're going to have a great series. If this lockdown perimeter defender + second-tier scorer formula worked, the Ron Artest/Kevin Martin team would not have gone 36-46. Artest and Jermaine O'Neal should have won multiple championships; after all, Jermaine was a much better player than Speights will ever be. Gary Payton didn't even win a ring with Shawn Kemp and Detlef Schremp, and Payton actually became a serious scorer.

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Jeff reply to Tray on Jan 13 at 1:09
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"But isn't that more of an indictment of his supporting cast than proof of how good Iguodala is?"

...ok here we go again...so what you're saying is, his supporting cast is unable to provide their fair share on the court, and since Iguodala is able to make up for that factor, he is somehow not really that good? Because he is able to compensate for their mishaps, doesn't that mean he is good?? How can that devalue him? Your argument makes no sense.

Also, please stop comparing Iguodala to Artest. They are not the same player.
And it bothers me that you think a championship team is made with one player. Look at any player, on any championship team, ever, and tell me they won a championship playing with a bunch of scrubs.
Iguodala is great all around and would be a crucial piece on a championship team. Quite frankly, we have yet to see otherwise. Give him a championship caliber team, and if he turns into a "Pippen in Jordan's retirement years" I will deem your argument logical. But obviously that would never happen.

You're kind of ignoring the fact that Artest was never the player Iguodala is. He was a one-dimensional defender and really a gunner who took too many shots for those teams. Plus he was a headcase who couldn't stay on the floor.

And even with Artest's limitations, that formula did amount to a 61-21 team and a trip to the conference finals before the rumble in Detroit blew the whole thing up. 61-21 qualifies as a contender in my book.

Those Payton teams, before he was a scorer, were also contenders. They won 63 games in 1993-5, and well over 50 in the years shouldering that season.

Jason Kidd took two New Jersey teams to the finals averaging less than 20 ppg while being the best player on his team. In fact, you'd have to say Kidd did more harm than good whenever he shot the ball for those New Jersey teams.

Steve Nash won two MVPs with a paltry PPG total, he only played on one side of the floor and I certainly considered those Suns teams contenders.

The point we're arguing here is moot, though. You see, what I'm saying is that even if the Sixers get a 20ppg scorer to play alongside Iguodala (be it Speights, Thad or some draft pick/free agent), AI9 will still most likely be the best player on the team. Hell, they could even potentially pay someone more than Iguodala in free agency at some point to come in here and be the primary scorer. The difference we have is that at that point you'll say Iguodala is a second banana, and I'll say he's the best player on the team because he contributes in all areas.

Scoring is not the only skill in this league, it's not even the most important one for a player to have.

I'd only move Iguodala if it was required in a trade that moves Brand. Moving Iguodala but keeping Brand is like what some idiot would call putting make-up on a pig. Its a wasted move that fails to address the underlying problem.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 12 at 22:06
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ESPN Poll "Most under appreciated in the NBA?"

Monta Ellis
David Lee
Brandon Roy
Gerald Wallace
Deron Williams

Based on the amount of verbal oral sex ESPN feasts upon them 4 of these guys shouldn't even be on the list

Well, the only under-appreciated guy on this list is probably Gerald Wallace, and he's really having a career year this season. Lee is a product of D'Antoni, Ellis is essentially a turnover machine who's really been killing his team all season, Roy and Williams get verbal head from ESPN every time their teams are mentioned. That might be the dumbest poll ever.

If you want to rank them, it's D Williams, Roy, Wallace, Ellis, Lee.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 12 at 22:54
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Wallace's rebounding is absolutely amazing for a guy his size, thrilled to have him on my fantasy team. He is the only under-rated guy on that list. Ellis and Lee are OVERrated by people trying to say that they are underrated.

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Tray reply to Brian on Jan 12 at 23:11
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Monta's scoring 26 a game on 47% shooting. That's not bad. Without him, I don't know how they ever win. Force-feeding Maggette? I doubt their defense would improve much without him. After all, their point guard is Steph Curry.

Hate to break it to you, but GSW is better with Monta on the bench, and not just a little better either. 13 pts/100 possessions better.

If the 76ers trade IA9 for McGrady, we have the most incompentent GM in the world. I thought King was bad, but that would take the cake.

As Brian has done clearly on this blog (if you read it regularly) has shown AI9 is worth his money. And, Kate Fagan, who knows basketball, agrees. Last year, when he was having an horrible start, she did a great job explaining his worth.

I am tired of his antics and honestly would not mind him being traded, but not for a salary dump.

Obviously, this is my opinion and I may be proven wrong!

\o/ is the Tim Duncan icon. That is his "FOUL?!?!?" expression.

This trade would just be a money dump/open admission to tanking.

Sammie is trying hard, but his contract is still awful. Iggy's is bad too. I'll miss Iggy, and just begin hoping we get John Wall if this happens.

If not, meh. Baseball is going to start soon.

Brian you keep saying that you see this team possibly being a contender in 2011 which i can kind of see too. i just wanted to know what you think the sixers will do to make sure they are. we will have jrue iguodala thad brand lou and speights on the roseter then (im not sure about anyone else who's on the team right now, correct me if i'm wrong). do you see that core of players being good enough to contend or do you see us maybe signing a FA with sammy and willie's contract expiring, or maybe even trades? i'm just curious because i would like to have something to look forward to with this team pretty soon

What I'm really saying is that if this team is going to be a contender, it's not going to be until 2011, at the earliest.

What do they need to do to get there? God, there's a ton to be done. First, Jrue really needs to develop quickly. He's only going to be 21 heading into that season, and he'd have to be very mature for a 21-year-old PG. Iguodala's skills also can't deteriorate over the next two seasons, which isn't really far-fetched, considering he's one of the most durable players in the league and he'll only be 28, but he's going to have a ton of miles on his odometer by the end of this contract, so you never know.

I'd say they need to find a way to get rid of Brand's contract by then. If he continues to play like this, it'll be possible.

The most important thing they're going to have to do, though, is figure out what they have in Speights, Thad and to an extend Lou (though I'm pretty sure they know what they have in Lou, a guy who can come in and get you a dozen or so points off the bench.) My guess is that one of either Speights or Thad will be gone by 2011, maybe as a sweetener in a package to move Brand.

If Thad is the guy that's gone, then they need to get a shooter to play the two who can at least defend at an average level, but really shoot it (through the draft or via free agency/trade).

They need a defensive center. A Gortat type, not necessarily him, but a guy who can legitimately clean the glass, defend the rim, and get you garbage points under the hoop without making stupid mistakes. If Speights is the one that stays, he's your PF. If not, then you need a PF.

Best-case scenario, the Sixers are able to move Brand, they make their decision on Speights/Thad, they're able to fill one of those needs via the draft this summer or next and the other they fill through free agency in 2011 when they'd have only about $34M committed to 7 players and could legitimately make a max offer to a free agent (assuming they were able to unload Brand by then).

That's a long answer, but that's what I'd be shooting for. Obviously, the key step is getting rid of Jordan and bringing in a real coach.

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zig reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 1:19
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one thing we would have to hope is that thad and speights still have their value as talented "young chips" in 2 years. ideally, the earlier they are traded in the playing careers (unless they of course they establish themselves as very legitimate players in 3 years), the higher their value should be.

If a deal presented itself now for Brand + either Speights or Thad, for a contract that expired after next season, I'd make my best guess on those guys and make it. You're right, the odds of at least one of their values to drop in the next 13 months or so are pretty high.

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deepsixersuede on Jan 13 at 8:01
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Maybe there is more to this deal than we are hearing; a third team involved? young player and a draft pick involved? Iggy is this organization!s identity now, whether we like it or not.

Brian, add depth to your list. Thad would be a nice option off the bench at this point of his career. Would be nice to get a low post beast in the draft if possible.

Brian,

The Sixers are not in the luxury tax zone this season.

Yeah, I realize that. They probably will be next season, though, if they don't shave some money off the payroll.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 9:56
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The Greek on Jan 13 at 10:32
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Brian, I spent 6 months in Greece last year watching there basketeball. The mvp over there 2 years ago averaged 13 pts a game. So no ppg is not the real issue with me. You asked me to name one tangible thing that Iggy doesn't do and I will oblige you.

He is a career 325 shooter from deep and that is just pathetic. Him standing on the perimeter when Brand or Thad are woriking down low is a joke. No one respects his outside game, and thats why he can't stick as a sg.

And what about the stat where Iggy's jumpshot gets even worse in the fourth quarter. And because of his stank high arching jumper, him and Thad cannot play on the same team together.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jan 13 at 10:51
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What's Iversons career 3 point fg %?

And because of his stank high arching jumper, him and Thad cannot play on the same team together.

Let's just work with this statement for a second and assume you're correct. If Thad and Iguodala can't play on the same team together, you think the best solution is to get rid of Iguodala rather than Thad to fix the situation, correct?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 11:56
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Sure, who cares about rebounding or defense baby, this is eddie jordan basketball, SCORING is how you win

Here's an answer to your three-point shooting argument.

Look at those PER's...
29 for MJ... wow!

Iguodala's 3 pt % is comparable or better than these guards: Jordan, Drexler, Wade, Kidd and others.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 13:06
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How About this one folks

Dalembert/Iguodala

for

Dampier/Howard


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