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Since the Nets seem to have officially claimed last place, I would like to see the sixers finish 14th.

I'm going with high lottery pick over more Eddie Jordan. They're not really learning his offense anymore and he is coaching against his will.
best case scenario: they get a high pick, I trust the sixers FO with drafting, they get rid of Sammy and Willie Green after next year and stand a chance to build a contending team.
worst case: another first round playoff loss, more Eddie Jordan, and the team wastes Iguodala's prime years with tight budgets and young players who can't develop under a fundamentally sound coach.

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Jeff reply to Jeff on Jan 13 at 8:22
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The most difficult part of all of this is voting against your team winning. I always want to see the sixers win, but I just think losing is for the better good for the above mentioned reasons.

Can this team be successful under a controlled Jordan?
I would like to hear other peoples' thoughts on this.

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Duracorr reply to Jeff on Jan 13 at 17:42
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Eddie Jordan is NOT a championship-caliber coach.

As long as we have EB and AI9, we'll be a middling non-elite team with bad contracts. We won't get a high draft pick, and we'll keep EDDIE JORDAN TO FURTHER DEVELOP HIS OFFENSE! SIGN ME UP!

I voted wost case. 9th-12th seed.

Another season of lousy start, New Year's/Spring run, late collapse. That would make 4 straight years?

Look at my post from last January: http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2009-01-06/The-stages-of-a-Sixers-season-2006-present...-tk76

"The stages of a Sixers season: 2006-> present

1. Expectations
2. Confusion/rationalization
3. Anger
4. Doubt
5. Despair
6. Changes, youth movement
7. optimism (early part of run)
8. Enthusiasm (late part of run)
9. Reality (season over with or without 1 round of playoffs)
10. Excitement over mid 1st round pick with potential

Return to step one"
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This would be the year to break the cycle and get a high lottery pick- but they won't.

hey if any of you guys are in nyc, lemme know, would love to catch games with fellow sixer followers (i'm reluctant to say 'fans' at this point).

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Shawn reply to joeykey on Jan 13 at 10:21
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Same - anyone in DC?

I'm in NYC, planning on going to the Sixers/Knicks on 3/19 and maybe Sixers/Nets in the Swamp on 1/31. Don't have tix for either yet, though.

hey brian and rich - sounds good! i got a guy at the garden, i was able to get three free tix for the knicks season opener against the 76ers on halloween. lemme talk to my guy about tix for 3/19.

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Rich reply to joeykey on Jan 13 at 13:09
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I'm in NYC and would be good to go to the Knicks game on 3/19.

I chose 9-12. Want EJ to continue to play D/Big. Prove that his Offensive rotation was the primary reason for our underachieving but fall short of the playoffs and be in the lottery; However, I suspect, if the D/Big approach works we should do well enough to make the playoffs. I want a lottery pick.

By the way. Phil Jansner has a good article in todays DN. He rips into EJ without coming on too strong. Kate should learn from him in order to keep good relations with the sixers management.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20100113_Phil_Jasner__Handyman_special__Fixing_the_Sixers.html

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JohnEMagee reply to sfw on Jan 13 at 10:33
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Or Phil could learn something from Fagan about writing the truth and being honest as a journalist should be and not cowardly waiting until someone else writes it.

Fagan has neither a twitter nor a blog post since the detroit game

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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 11:00
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Like I said on another blog yesterday, Fagan is the only journalist in Philly with a set balls.

Yeah what up with no posting since the Detroit game? Maybe her big balls are making her too lazy to get to the computer.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jan 13 at 13:11
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Seriously, what's wrong with you?

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 13:53
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I would look into the mirror, criticizing Jasner for anything he's done this year. He's not the beat writer right now, obviously. Do you know how sick he is? Have you seen a picture of him?

I know you are probably going to say he was terrible in the past too, but he never wrote stuff that was untrue. You meant this year too. He confused stuff from time to time, but stop saying he wasn't honest. That's BS.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 13:56
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Dude was and has been a mouth piece for the sixers for a long while now, he only calls out the sixers AFTER someone else has the cojones to do so...whether or not he is sick doesn't matter to me regarding his integrity - i never thought he had any, he would apper on DNL (oh look a show on comcast television) and he would sugar coat how bad the sixers are because he seemed more worried about the sixers liking him and getting on tv then doing his damn job...he's not the only one...just todays.

Didn't know he was sick, and i'm sorry he is, but that doesn't excuse doing a shit job as a writer

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 14:08
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The fact that he's writing and working at all is amazing with how sick he is. Did you see him interviewing Arenas the other day???? It does excuse him from being "late" as you say though. I totally disagree with everything you said, especially the "mouthpiece" part. Didn't agree with a lot of his assessments as far as players went, but he kept it real for the most part and never wrote anything that wasn't true.

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 14:22
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Oh "the getting on TV" thing is wrong too. Come on, an old guy like that is too worried about being on TV? You are killing the guy for no reason now, just making assumptions. What's wrong with DNL by the way? Just because it's on CSN, the only time Comcast people complain is when Conlin makes an off-color remark. The only people who TRY to manipulate the media are the Eagles.

DNL is a waste of time and one of the reasons I am glad I don't have Comcast anymore.

The hosts(especially, especially Michael Barkann) don't know much of anything about sports. Instead, they speak in surface generalities and loud, obnoxious opinions, much like WIP(which I don't listen to anymore either).

Their NBA talk is lacking substance and depth. The difference between Fagan's critiques and most of the other media is striking, because the rest apparently lack the comprehensive knowledge to get to the root of the issue decisively while also communicating that to the public.

I regret to say I think we'll fall in the 9-12 range. Washington may well blow things up, New Jersey and Detroit ought to finish with worse records than us. Indiana could finish worse than us too, although Granger should help there.

I would love to see the 76ers lose every game till the end of the season for a better draft pick.

But, in the last 2 games, EJ has found how to win games. I can't help but think he will continue down that road.

As a fan, I have mixed feelings. Enjoy seeing good basketball on the court but know we EJ gone and that will not happen unless they keep losing.......

At the risk of pissing of a certain fellow poster of quality...

here is a fantasy trade that won't happen, but I'm interested in hearing peoples opinions on the general idea for each of the teams involved:

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 13 at 11:59
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What do the sixers get for the 400 nexus one cell phone?:)

Bulls/Sixers:

Iguodala + Brand (27M) + Thad (2M)

for

Miller + James + Thomas + Pargo (27M expiring)

Maybe the Bulls would consider my deal if they new they had no shot at Lebron or DWade?

They would be left with:

Rose/Iguodala/Deng/Brand/Noah starting
Bench: Hinrich/Salmons/Thomas/Gray

They would be up against the tax (over assuming they resign Thomas.)
Would that team have a shot at contending?

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The Sixers would be left with:
Jrue/Lou/Kapono/Speights/Sam... which gets them a top 5 pick probably 2 years in a row.

They would have 37M committed for next summer and only 17M committed for the following year. So basically allowing an entire rebuild in 2 years while only giving up Thad (and Iguodala)- and have unlimited cap space, some young talent and probably a few years of top 5 picks while they rebuild from ground zero.

I'd be 100% on board with that (and new management.)

please ignore the typos/grammar... as usual.

I think I'd actually prefer the Cleveland blowup option to that one, simply because it included a young piece coming back to us and did't involve Thad going out, but whatever.

If you're going to blow it up, one nuclear weapon is just as effective as another. The team would basically be unwatchable for the next what, two or three years? And then we'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel to get a c-list free agent to come here and play with our shit roster.

The great part is we can then develop an all around stud like Jrue only so the fan base can talk about how he isn't good because he doesn't score 20ppg and we can start talking about trading him away in his prime. To blow it up in the hopes that we can get a guy like Kevin Martin in the draft.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 12:08
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So you aren't pro tyrus thomas?

No, not really a fan. Plus, he's not really cheap anymore, even his rookie contract is expensive at this point, though he's probably due for a pay cut in free agency, unless one of the teams with cap space does something dumb when they don't land one of the big names. Does Detroit have cap space this summer? That sounds like something Dumars might do.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 13:08
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Shame we can't come up with a package with Thad/Speights to get the real Kevin Martin...

Add him to Jrue/Iggy/EB - with a real coach - and you might have something.

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Tray reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 14:13
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"To blow it up in the hopes that we can get a guy like Kevin Martin in the draft."

Stars do exist, you know, aren't a once every ten years type of thing. If you get a high draft pick for a couple of years, chances are decent you'll get one. (A lot more decent, at least, than the chances an Iguodala-led team will one day defy all basketball wisdom and win a title.) And the only way to assure yourself of getting a high draft pick is tanking. This is how Cleveland got LeBron, how Denver got Carmelo, how Boston got a high enough pick that Seattle valued it enough to take it for Ray Allen. The year before Denver got Carmelo, they blew things up to the point where James Posey was their leading scorer. You always say that we draft so well that it doesn't matter how bad a pick we get, but can we really say anymore that Thad was the 3rd best player in that draft? He's easily been superseded by Noah, and arguably by Horford, Green, Brooks and Landry as well. And even if he was the 3rd best player in the draft, we're not going to get very far drafting more players of the caliber of a Thaddeus Young. Unless you're the Spurs, teams that never get high picks become teams of role players.

It's funny that you mention LeBron and Melo, who have zero rings between them.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 14:29
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And so do karl malone and John stockton

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 14:55
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Come on man...Lebron got to the Finals when he was 22 years old with a horrible supporting cast. Melo took Denver to the 7th game of the conference finals last year against a great LA team...

This whole ideology of "well...teams that draft superstar players in the top of the draft DON'T win rings..." is ludicrous, you know who else doesn't win rings? The Sixers drafting 12-16 every year after getting eliminated in the 1st round.

I didn't say they don't win rings, I wasn't even the one that brought up rings. The original statement was that getting a top pick is a more likely route to a ring than to hold on to Iguodala. My Melo and LeBron comments were in response to him using them as examples.

But since we're talking about how getting a top pick is the only way to build a contender, how 'bout them Clippers? Blake Griffin done for the year. He's destined to join Andrew Bogut, Andrea Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden and Kenyon Martin as transformative number one picks that teams were lucky enough to get after winning the lottery.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 16:25
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That's a real shame about Blake Griffin, oh the Clippers...To be fair, Kenyon Martin was very integral on the NJ teams that went to the finals, he was a spectacular athlete/defender/game changer before the injuries...This argument about moving Iguodala is a moot point to me anyway, he's not going anywhere unless they send EB packing with him. I don't think one team in the league is going to bite on Brand, thats just my opinion

I also never said we draft so well it doesn't matter where we pick. What I did say was that had we tanked the past two seasons odds are we wouldn't be much better off than we are right now, talent-wise, and I stand by that.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 13 at 12:04
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Well, I'm not the poster of quality, but I do realize you feel the sixers have a desperate need to get rid of Elton Brand above everything before anything good can happen to the sixers so I see where you're coming from.

And really, the only thing the sixers get back of any value aside from the expiring contracts is Tyrus Thomas, who as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on but isn't he about to become a restricted free agent...if you aren't sure Thomas is worth a long term deal you've dumped BOTH your above average wings to get rid of Brand for only cap space. It seems like an overly high price to pay to dump brands contract (which you keep calling phillymax for some reason)...you've stripped the sixers of most of it's immediate talent and left them barren at the 2/3 going forward - and that roster won't appeal to any big name free agents (even if the sixers had enough cap to afford them, I don't know if they would still)...

So in terms of 'future' - this is a tank move - pure and simple to me - this puts the 'compete in 2011' plan in the crapper and while improving their chances to have a better shot at John Wall I'm not sure dumping Thad AND Iguodala is the way to go (even to get rid of Brand :)

As for the Bulls, i think there's this comment about a snowball and hades that comes to mind...They're gearing up for an off season run of trying to get wade to come home or lebron to try and rebuild the legacy michael built, they're a pretty young core and Brand throws that off just as much as he does in Philadelphia. Plus you're taking ALL their expiring contracts - it's been well reported that Hinrich has been on the market for a long while - put him in there and take out the equivalent expiring and maybe it has a slightly better chance of happening but then I don't like it as much for the sixers...

I know what you're trying to do but I just think giving up Iguodala AND YOung just to get rid of Brand seems like a bit much

The upside isn't just getting higher draft picks which have more value than 11-20 draft picks. but it may also help us get rid of ed stefanski or eddie jordan. huge positives. This organization needs real leadership and basketball smarts

baby...bathwater?

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Shawn reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 12:21
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Why does that bastard have braces? My goodness I really hate him. I'm starting to enjoy the Elton Brand snarl - very enjoyable. Also on tap, isn't it obvious Dalembert is playing well before the trade deadline? This guy was such toxic waste for the last 3 years, and all of a sudden he's just been a dominant player trying to get the hell out of here. He's got as much trade value as anyone right now, and here's hoping we get draft picks or young pieces for him. This is why HOU is not a good deal. They don't need expiring deals for this year because EB is still on the books. They need someone who is on their rookie contract looking to get better. Who is that? I don't know, but lets discuss these players. How about I start you all off with - Anthony Randolph. He's a great piece of interesting upside, and may just not be clicking with his current team, and you could add Biedrins awful contract if you get a draft pick as well.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Jan 13 at 12:24
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Sam Dalembert has less trade value than every expiring contract on the market this year, and any GM worth his salt isn't going to be fooled by a few weeks of good play compared to the rest of his career, so someone needs to hire Isiah or BK quick to get Dalembert moved

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johnrosz reply to Shawn on Jan 13 at 15:00
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Maybe Jordan benches Elton because he is jealous of all that gum EB chomps on throughout the game. If i remember correctly, when i had braces chewing gum was a definite no no.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Jan 13 at 12:15
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Actually, if Comcast agrees to it, a trade like this probably prolongs the Stefanski Jordan era because the team will be god awful and everyone wil EXPECT them to be godawful thus if they 'surprise' (like the 07/08 sixers who were predicted to be the worst team in the league - what a load) and do slightly better Jordan and Stefanski would get credit.

Plus a trade like this would probably also lead to a 'face lift' where the sixers are made over in the image of their head coach who is a good friend of the GM.

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Shawn reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 12:26
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You're right, which is why they MIGHT do it. But a fan base gets bored, and gets a lot more fickle in 2 straight years of badness. I'm leaning to them getting rid of ed and ed like they did to mo cheeks and billy king. Same siutation after iverson was dealt

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JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Jan 13 at 12:29
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Well, if you're planning to fire the ed's - then you do so BEFORE a roster decimating trade like the one tk suggested...allowing ed and ed to make the trade suggested is a commitment to their vision whatever it be to build a franchise.

At least that's how I see it.

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Shawn reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 12:32
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Who said Comcast was logical? I don't think there is a knowledgeable person anywhere in that ownership.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Jan 13 at 14:17
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Comcast is logical if you think about the fact that saving money is more important than fielding a good basketball team right now.

A few quick points...

1. Meant TIM THOMAS as an expiring contract. I guess you could flip in Tyrus and either cut or trade him.

2. On second thought I'd probably see if they do the trade without Thad. We need a SF and they are coming out with all of the talent. Do you think that would make the Bulls a contender?

3. I would NOT use the cap space to make a "Philly-max" type signing this year or probably next. I would use the cap space to steal some extra picks and talent by helping out tea,s that need us to absorb short term salary to stay under the tax. We can always cut those guys but keep the picks (similar to what OKC and Portland have done the past few years.)

4. I would market the team as a fresh start... join us on the ground floor. Cheaper tickets. Promotions like free BB instruction with an assistant coach and one of the young players. Like Moses/Speights and a boxing out. That would highlight what the team is working for in a good light.

5. Hire a tough nosed, defensive oriented coach. keep them at least 3 years.

6. Make AI player/coach.... just to have him run "practice."

7. Do not focus on a specific style of play until we know what talent we have (depends on how our next 2 top 5 picks turn out.)

8. Plan on keeping cap space clear for 2-3 years from now and hopefully "go uptown" at that point.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 13 at 14:52
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How do you feel about this one - which doesn't get rid of brand

Dalembert/Iguodala

Howard/Dampier

Just a chat rumor but the kind that scares me cause I can see Comcast making this kind of offer and the mavs saying yes...howard and dampier BOTH can be off the books after this season

I though Dampier had a player option, but I guess Hoopshype says its a team option.

Sounds like a cash saving move like the TMac trade. Doesn't help the team or really open up short or long term cap space. So agree that's its a scary/bad move.

I'd be open to this type of move if Brand was moved first. But If you can move Brand then probably should consider holding onto Iguodala.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jan 13 at 15:20
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Yes it sounds exactly like the Houston trade

Except I don't think houston would make such a deal and I believe the Mavs WOULD

Dampier had vesting options - he didn't make them - contract expires this year
Howard has a team option for next year as well

This is the only 'proposed' deadline trade by anyway I think the 'opposing' team would do...

My plan B- less nuclear:

1. Fire as many Ed's as possible by the end of this summer.

2. Next winter package Brand with a bunch of expirings and maybe one young player in exchange for contacts that end the following year (you would no longer be a player in Summer 2011.)

3. By summer 2012 you would have a ton of cap space, and a maturing young roster. If the team seems ready then you make a trade or signing of a major vet FA. if not you keep building smartly.

This way we keep our young talent. we get out from under Brand's Phillymax deal next year, and clear off a bunch of other bad contracts by summer 2012. Entering fall 2012 you would have:

Jrue/Iguodala/Thad/Speights/Lou and the 2009/10/11 first round picks and about 30-32 M of salary (based on Thad getting 70(M his 2nd year of a new deal.)

I don't know, I mean, right now are you comfortable extending Thad? And at what price?

No, I don't know. If he's a bust you can deal him, cut him, sign him for less... sort of not part of the big plan.

The big picture is using the expiring deals we have next year to trade away Brand. take back extras that expire one year later and maybe some more picks or talent...

That's why I said in 2012 I go after a big name IF THE TEAM IS READY. If our current young players are busts you are under no pressure. You just continue building.

Right now their is a ton of pressure because of the growing contracts of Brand/Iguodala/Lou.

Brand/Iguodala/Lou account for 37M and 39M in 2011/12, 2012/13. Take 18M away and the franchise has some breathing room to make winning moves instead of tax driven ones.

Would be more like 35-37M consider the salaries of the three 1st rounders. But still a solid core of 21-27 year olds and lots of flexibility that we would not have in the final 2-3 years of Brands deal.

Yeah, I'm with ya on moving Brand. I don't really think expiring deals are going to be enough sweetener to get it done next season, though. I also think Pritchard is a pussy w/ the way he used his cap space, Presti the jury is still out on.

I think it would work. You would actually be taking on a bunch of salaries by swapping your 20M of 2011 expirings for 2012 expiring. That is a large incentive if you can find the right trading partners.

By saving the other team 20M through players that expire one year earlier they would basically be getting Brand for the first year Free in exchange for paying his final year of salary. And the Sixers would get out of Brand's deal 2+ years early.

Does this make sense?

I'm just not sure teams who are going to be motivated to take back expiring contracts will want to take back a hefty long-term contract in the deal. Defeats the purpose, to an extent.

I don't think you can be confident with any of the young players yet. Jrue and Speights need more run, and Thad, I have no idea where his best fit is. Is he like a Pietrus type player?

I agree. That's always the case with young players- but even more so when you have been picking in the mid 1st round based on raw potential (Thad/Speights/Jrue.)

Not to be a broken record, but therein lies the biggest mistake with the 2008 signings. They committed to winning in the next 2-3 years based on a financial comittment of 200M in salaries that all grow over 5 years. So if things do not work out with either your young players or the players you signed (Brand/Iguodala/Lou) then you are stuck.

You just can't make major commitments when you roster is so young and in flux. If you are going to make a major signing, at least go for someone like Josh Smith who was only 22. That way there's a better chance someone still will want him in 20-3 years at age 25 if it does not work out. But no one will want a 31 year old with 4 big contract years if he did not work out for you.

...O.K., I'll leave the dead horse be for a while. Sorry :)


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