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Fool Me Thrice

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 17:06
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I totally forgot about how damaging Nate Robinson could be to Jrue's psyche.

Any word on Lou Williams and whatever 'injury' he suffered on Monday? I think that's the decider in Jrue and his minutes.

PS, game today and still nothing new from Kate Fagan since Saturday night

She's off. Vacation or something.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 17:11
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Am I the only one suspicious when a beat writer takes a vacation in the heart of the season they cover?:)

I need a vacation, like one of those year-long, travel-the-world vacations Australians are always taking. That's what I need.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 17:20
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But then you'd have to be Australian - and who the hell wants that?

Lepers and criminals, traditionally.

No offense to any Australian Sixers fans out there (I think we actually had one commenter at one point from Austrlia)

Wow, we've actually had 298 visits from Australia this month: Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Cranbourne, Perth ...

I take it back, I take it all back!

(except the part about wanting to take a year off to travel, that part's awesome)

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 17:32
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There's a basketball team in australia referred to as the 'sixers' adelaide 36ers is the correct name (I just looked it up)

http://www.insidehoops.com/nbl.shtml

There's also a band called Stephen Kellogg and the Sixers I discovered when i used to use twitter and just searched 'sixers' to see what peeps were saying

Yeah, I get alerts for both of them folded into my google alerts for "Sixers."

These look like mostly regular readers coming from Australia, though.

average time on site is six minutes per visit, bounce rate is only 38%. Typically if it's accidental traffic, the bounce rate is near 100%.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 17:37
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Crap that reminds me i need to run some research on my company's web site and see bounce rates...sigh

I'm shocked that they are only 19th in defensive efficiency. Duhon and Jeffries are alright defenders I guess, but this is weird. Dare I say D'Antoni's best defensive coaching job?

Without a doubt.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 17:42
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I kind of actually feel bad for the guy. They look like they have no shot to get LeBron or anyone big. He is doing a nice smoke and mirrors job, but how long can he go with Al Harrington as one of his main guys?

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 17:46
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Yeah, I don't feel bad for the guy, he makes an awful lot of money coaching the NBA with a system that personally I think could never win an NBA title since officiating 'changes' in the playoffs regarding defense and physicality...

Lebron never made my dream come true though - I wanted him to say that he didn't think a mike d'antoni team could ever win an NBA title - not because I want D'antoni to get fired, but just to see how the knicks woudl panic

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 18:01
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I don't know, if it's about players he could have won at least once in those years. He had a lot of bad luck in 2005-2007, with Joe Johnson/Amare/The Horry suspensions. Plus his owner was terrible to him in Phoenix, the players that were given away for a little money were unbelievable. I just feel bad in that he went to New York thinking something would happen that ultimately won't. Obviously not sorry for his salary though.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 18:03
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I never thought they'd win an NBA finals with that roster...yes the suspensions suck but when you don't stop anyone you can't put anyone away - ask the sixers - ask the raptors (blew a 23 point lead earlier this week?) - you can't lock down defensively then you can blow almost any lead

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 18:13
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OK, but Joe Johnson got hurt (eye socket) against probably the weakest Spurs championship team, the 2005 version. Amare was hurt the next year and they made it 2 games from the finals by basically jacking threes with guys like Tim Thomas and relying on Boris Diaw. If Amare doesn't get hurt, I don't know how they don't win that year. He was such a monster before he was hurt and only getting better.

Here's the big thing though. They gave away Joe Johnson basically for Boris Diaw. They gave away the # 7 pick in 2004 draft for tax reasons and could have gotten... Andre Iguodala! They also traded the number 20 pick in 2006 I believe which was... Rajon Rondo! He could have upgraded his defense big time with a couple of these guys. Imagine a Bell-Iguodala-Marion 2 to 4 defensively. They could create some havoc.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 18:16
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Well yeah, once ownership starts screwing you over to save money there's nothing really you can do...which is why he left I guess...but that new ownership and stupid new GM didn't help

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 18:24
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For those interested in prospects - Kansas is on ESPN2 at 9PM, Texas is on ESPN360 (which I don't get at home but do at work) with my 'second round sleeper' who has moved up to the mid first round in the past couple weeks :)

UNC is on ESPN at 9pm eastern

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 18:31
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The guy I am really impressed with on Kansas is Sherron Collins. Obviously Henry is a special talent and Aldrich looks like a solid big although I gotta see more. Still, I would rather have a guy like Collins at the point than Lou Williams. He's all over the place on draft boards, but the guy's size and weight problems are his only negatives to me. Leadership is great, is a jet and would be one of the strongest guards in the league, and he shoots it well out to three point range. The most impressive part this year is keeping his TO's down and for some reason I am transfixed with the guy.

Evan Turner was fantastic last night as well.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 18:34
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Collins is going to get downgraded partly cause he's a senior - that's just how it goes - but he's not a lottery pick - if the sixers wanna get him early in the second or buy a late first, fine...but he's not a top 10 pick that I can see.

Aldrich is moving down my 'hypothetical' board mostly because he seems lumbering when he plays, and I've seen him get winded too often, I worry about his conditioning.

I didn't see turner play, saw the highlights, but he seems likea good guy if his back is 100%

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 18:41
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He's definitely not a lottery pick, but if they could only use a second on him, I think that he would be an absolute steal. The guy is a winner and he knows how to play and defend playing four years there. Sadly, I think he'll be a late first and help a contender. Boston could use him right now.

Turner put up a great performance while really having no help except for William Buford in the 1st half. People might be wary about his back though, which could be a mistake like Blair's ACL and Roy's knee. I would love to have him on the Sixers.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 18:43
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Here's the thing about BLair's knee - no one knows if it was or wasn't a mistake yet - it wasn't one season people were worried about - it was long term durability - so did teams make a mistake THIS year passing on Blair - sure - but long term - lottery type expectations - who knows

Didn't Granger drop due to injury concerns? Aren't those kind of surfacing now? Sometimes they get it right and people are wowed by performance and forget that there were concerns for a reason.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:13
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I believe Granger did drop due to injury concerns - but I don't know if his current injuries are the same as the concerns...just saying

It was a knee issue. What's he out with now?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:22
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I have no idea that's why i said so :)

I miss Reggie Evans (pictured above). You could always hear him cursing over top of Zumoff's commentary. Same with Marc Jackson. I think he's playing in Spain now.

I'm becoming optimistic again and I'm going to pencil this one in as a win. I'd really like to see EJ get some balls and bring Thad off of the bench and let EB start the game. Thad hasn't done a thing lately to deserve to be starting over Elton, even with Elton forgetting how to rebound the last few games.

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JohnEMagee reply to Ryan F on Jan 13 at 18:36
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I remember Marc Jackson fondly for SAM at least twice a game heard clearly no matter how loud the crowd was :)

I miss REggie Evans as much as I miss the chance to have Ebola.

As for your wish on the starting line up - no such luck according to Yahoo - same old starting five of Eddie Jordans wet dreams

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xavier reply to Ryan F on Jan 13 at 19:04
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Hi everybody,
you're right Ryan. He plays in a small club in north Spain called "Xacobeo Bluesens". They're struggling to keep their place in ACB (spanish first league, in Spain the two last teams of the league fall to the second league called LEB in the next season), but he's doing a good job 28 mpg 14ppg 6.7 rpg.

BTW
Go Sixers!
.................
And..
God bless Sammy, his family and his country. My heart is with Sammy and Haiti.

Same starting lineup, AI3/Lou in the back court. I guess whatever was wrong with Lou the other night has cleared up, though there was no mention of it during the game.

Whatever, here we go, tip time.

Jeffries is guarding Iverson, Chandler on Iguodala. I guess Danilo on Lou.

Haven't seen how the Sixers are matching up.

Gallinari just took about 5 steps across the lane, late whistle on the Sixers instead. Ugh.

They're going to Chandler in the post and really exposing the defense with that mismatch. Bad start here.

Iverson looks gimpy. He's playing well to start though.

Excellent contest by AI9 on that Gallinari missed three.

Lee looks tough down low.

Bad shot by Lou, hate that 20-foot jumper w/ 20 seconds left on the shot clock off the dribble.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:22
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Is anyone defending David Lee?

Not really, they have to double Chandler every time to help Lou out, really poor rotations.

On the other end we're settling for too many jumpers. this is bad.

Iverson's jumper is so much better now. Sammy is all over the offensive glass.

Offense has run through Lou's man pretty much every time down the floor now. This is a bit embarrassing.

Great cut and finish by Sammy. He's finishing well with that hook shot.

Defense is awful so far.

Sammy is doing well.. BTW Jeffries 4/4 FG

Wow, Knicks 13/16 from the floor so far.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:27
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Galinari out early - hurt?

The zone might not be a bad idea here. I liked that they couldn't iso on Lou. I'll take Harrington shooting contested threes.

Sammy is so active on offense.

5 dimes for Sammy.

Zone isn't a bad idea w/ this group out there. Just make sure it's harrington or Jeffries winding up w/ the three.

Danillo wasn't hurt that I saw.

5 dimes for AI9, I meant.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:33
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30 footer from Iguodala at the end of the quarter? Definitely not a guy you want with the ball when it counts, not only that, what the hell NO points :)

No subs at all in the first quarter for the Sixers. Nate Robinson comes in and starts jacking right away, shocking.

Sixers down 30-26 after the first.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:34
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He's an energy guy off the bench, he fills up the basket AND he messes with the psyche of rookies.

All things being equal - would you rather have Nate or Willie?

Whichever makes less money, because neither one cracks the rotation for my team.

Wow, what a terrible shot by Nate on that possession. There was 6 seconds left on the clock, AI9 really could have made them pay for that.

Well, he's not a leader, so you had to expect he'd miss that shot.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:35
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Trade him right now!!!!

I believe that's the first time this season Jordan's gone an entire quarter without making a substitution.

Nice lefty hook by EB.

Wow, EB with the lefty hook.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:36
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Holiday first guard off the bench again

It's official - has Jrue passed Green in the rotation?

And was that Ed or ED

Damnit Lou. 4 on 1 fucking break and he charges.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:38
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I admire Lou's aggressiveness and desire to take shots, that's the kind of guy I want on my team

Give the ball up Lou! Jesus.

Brand with his second block, starting another break. Still slowing us down, even off the bench.

I don't know if Thad is very efficient, but he's getting to the line and very aggressive. Good sign.

Willie and Rodney in for AI9 and Lou.

+7 since Jrue/EB came in. Still staying small, though. Not crazy about that.

God, Nate just loves to shoot, huh?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:43
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How else will he help his team and break his cold streak?

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:44
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I'm worried about Jrue guarding him, could hurt his confidence.

Please, I beg of you, keep the ball in Jrue's hands in the half court. Willie's out there begging for it.

Way too many slow developing plays tonight. An example would be having Willie bring it up and having him run off three screens. Run stuff that gets EB in his sweet spot or in the P and R with Jrue or AI9.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:47
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Sam has 10/7 - if he doesn't play the entire second quarter - argh

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xavier reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:50
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Totally agree

I love how Clyde only cares about makes when he talks about shooters. Iguodala is our best three-point shooter because he's made the most.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:51
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When I'm in New York, listening to Frazier and Breen is a very enjoyable experience. Not always factual, but Clyde has such a carefree attitude that makes watching a team that I could care less about is not bad.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:51
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I love how clyde makes up words - i hate him as much as heinsohn

Sick pass from Jrue, but that scrub missed the three.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:53
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There's no reason for Iverson of Sam to have zero second quarter minutes - 6 minutes of game time - get their asses back in

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:55
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Especially with AI's shooting against a lazy zone.

Of course Jordan doesn't leave EB in with Sam. I would have liked that.

Damnit Brand, put a body on him. That was just lazy.

Sammy back in.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:54
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and iverson

just keep thad on the bench

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:55
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Brand wasn't to blame for that offensive board. Iggy was pouting because he left his own man and nobody rotated...he didn't box out his man from what i saw.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 13 at 19:57
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Everything is really Iguodalas fault cause he 'pouts'

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 20:00
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Everything? No. but dropping your hands to your waist, standing in the post and assuming the shot is going in because nobody rotated over to the guy you left...he boxes out, that's a Sixers rebound. yeah id say thats an example of hurting the team. Believe it or not AI9 isn't immaculate

Brand was a foot away from him and didn't put a body on him, just sort of swiped at him with his hand. Had nothing to do with Iguodala.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 20:00
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Do you see how much money Iguodala makes? Come on man...COME ON

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 20:06
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I only ask for a fair evaluation of Iguodala. Don't laugh it off when he clanks wide open shots, forces things, makes the occasional lazy play on defense. Everyone is all over his nuts when he does something positive, but call it both ways. He isn't above criticism

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 13 at 20:34
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Show me a player that doesn't take a play off every now and then...how about appreciating what Iguodala can do - he had 5 assists in the first quarter but you said nothing about him until the offensive board, and no offense, i trust brians opinion more than yours because it comes with less bias

Green is shooting 3PT well

A little under 8 minutes for Jrue in the first half.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 19:56
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Yahoo has him still on the floor with 8:54

They're wrong.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 19:55
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What did Speights do wrong?

Nothing but threes for AI9. Ugh.

Sammy has a double double already! Wow, what's gotten into him?

My main man willie. Dont hate, appreciate

Take it easy AI9, that's not a 3PT contest.

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Alvin reply to xavier on Jan 13 at 20:25
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Just because he's in a matchup with Gallinari doesn't mean he has to jack up 3 pointers like him.

That being said, AI9 is one of very few players in the league who can score score 0 points in a half and be doing more good than harm.

Look at the sour face D'Antoni's making. He's such a bad leader.

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xavier reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 20:07
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that post is more appropiate for "The Greek" who thinks a face tells him about leadership...

Sixers up by 1 at the half. Look at it this way, at least they don't have a double-digit lead to blow.

Not a second of burn for Speights. Not a second of a big lineup either. Jrue played fewer minutes than Lou, AI3 and Willie.

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Jesse reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 20:09
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Jordan hates playing Jrue against the Knicks for some reason.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jesse on Jan 13 at 20:35
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well he played 8 minutes in the first half - but it has something to do with psyche and Nate Robinson

Ugh, I thought the Sixers ran zero offense that quarter. Back to the dribble handoffs and bullshit with Willie running off screens and initiating the offense. I didn't like what I saw compared to the other night.

8 minutes for Brand? Come on, Thad doesn't need to play 21 minutes all at the four. That's stupid.

1st quarter points allowed- 30 Lou Williams Minutes- 12
2nd- 17 Lou's Minutes- 3

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 20:11
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I like when they try to sneak in a princeton set or 2 in there every once in a while, it usually ends with Sam turning the ball over or firing up a crazy shot as the clock expires after 85 dribble handoffs

Sam is matching David Lee every step of the way. The way he's playing, I wouldn't want to trade him. I'd rather keep him here and play him with Brand.

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Rich reply to Alvin on Jan 13 at 20:22
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If only Jordan would play them together. Or EB at all for that matter.

Terrible offense being run here. Nothing but jumpers.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 20:23
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1st good set in a LONG time there, but Thad got blocked.

AI heating up...

Iverson's jumper is pure tonight.

Nice pass, Lou. That's fucking lazy.

Sammy!

Excellent look from Lou.

Wow! Iverson is on fire

Anyone else think Sam got a chance for 20/20 again?

Jeebus, he has 19 boards already. Can he get 8 more points?

There we go my favorite lineup

EB and Jrue for Lou and Thad.

Wow, dare I say a great sub by Jordan!

Really good lineup here. Take advantage.

Iguodala finally makes one, and it wasn't a good shot either.

Jrue 4 3.

Zone against zone.

Jrue!!!!!

Bad shot by holiday but it went in and as always if holiday makes a three he's going to shoot another

Don't really have a problem w/ the first corner three, didn't think he was set on the second from the opposite side.

I'm pretty sure that was the first pick and roll I've seen.

21 second chance points for the sixers

Sick assist from Jrue to EB.

Jrue 4 3.

Wow! what a play!

This unit is playing with a swagger. Look at the fancy passes to set each other up and the good defense.

Jrue made three entry passes to Brand in about a 2-minute stretch that no one else on the team EVER attempts.

Do you guys think Speights isn't playing because EJ is thinking more in defense?

Personally, I think he isn't playing because ES is thinking more defense.

4 fouls on Sammy now, all in the 3rd quarter. Wonder when we'll see him again, and how many points we'll be down by at that point.

Jrue thought EB was going to zig on that one, but he zagged. Didn't mind the first turnover, that one was sloppy.

BS call on Brand.

That looked like a walk to me rather than an offensive foul. Either way, have to go up strong.

0/6 from three for AI9 now? Don't think he's attempted anything but a long jumper. Get to the rim for fuck's sake.

Thad, PASS!!!!

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 20:44
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What's with the 3's Andre?

Thad's pretty useless right now. He's only 3-11 from the field. AI9 gotta be more aggressive against this zone. They want us to take tough threes.

Bad end to the third, 68-68 heading into the fourth.

Really, really curious to see how the minutes are doled out here. I'd probably start the quarter with Sammy in there, if he picks up his fifth, then you protect him, but you need to get this lead back right away.

Anyone taking bets on whether we see the Lou/AI3 back court for significant time?

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 20:46
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Admittedly didn't watch a lot of Clippers games when Brand was there, but the guy gets destroyed whenever he tries to put back an offensive board.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 20:48
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Young, Holiday, Brand, Green Carney to start the fourth...that's kind of AWESOME

Lasted 48 seconds. Lou back in.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 20:50
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For Holiday - so now I feel better - less defense - less passing - but more early shots

The middle of the zone is open and perfect for EB to do damage. We aren't patient at all offensively. Jrue was open there though.

too many 3PT shots.. that's BS agaisnt defensive zone

Thank God for Nate Robinson, huh?

Rich, totally agree with you

AI9 has taken 5 more threes than Gallinari and has made none. Shocker.

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Alvin reply to Alvin on Jan 13 at 20:54
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Ok, it's 3 more threes, not 5. But still.

That Brand jumper was the first good shot in a while, he missed it, but that spot is wide open for him at the foul line. Flash there, get a pass and a cutter should be open for a dunk if they collapse the zone on EB.

EB didn't make that, but he was open and the whole zone collapsed and really lost its shape on that possession. Gotta keep going there.

Sam better be back in out of this timeout.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 20:56
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Speights - you know we need more offense to win this game

We need Sam in there now, and oddly this time it's because we can't score.

Come on. Hit your free throws.

Get Lou the F out.

WTF LOU? 20-foot jumper in a 1 on 4 transition. That's fucking awesome. Douche.

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xavier reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 21:02
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yeah, he plays like a chicken without head.

Looks like AI9 and Sammy are coming back in. Probably for Carney and Brand.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 21:02
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Now we need Jrue for Lou. Sadly that's not happening.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 21:04
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I'll take Iguodala for Lou

Carney is shooting hot tonight he gets to stay in

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Alvin reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 21:06
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Anybody, even Mo Cheeks at his age, rather than Lou at this point.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 21:03
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If the sixers shot selection tonight weren't so bloody awful they'd be killing the knicks

AI9 for Lou. Sammy for Brand.

I know Carney is playing well but it's gotta be Iggy or Carney on the floor at this point. The Jrue/AI backcourt combo is our best chance.

that was so lucky. What is Carney doing under the hoop helping? Sammy was right there. Left his man wide open for a corner three.

Sick pass from AI to AI for the reverse slam.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 21:07
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It was Jeffries though, could have been worse, but he was WIDE open. Right guy to leave I guess.

Yeah, but there's no reason for anyone to be left right there, all he did was get in Sammy's way.

Good move by Jordan, actually. I like this lineup to close. Stays big, and Carney, who earned the chance to close, doesn't hurt on D.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 21:08
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Well carney can't do worse than he did in the first half - 3 fouls in 3 minutes is sam like

He's got 11 in the fourth, I think.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 21:06
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At this point, since it's a mismatch from the start anyway, Lou and Jrue should switch spaces in the rotation, Lou sucks defensively and he's just not an NBA starter at any position, let alone point guard

Sammy just grabbed his 21st board. Hoping for 25.

CARNEY!!!

Attaboy Rodney.

Nice drive by Speights. Big hoop.

Ugh. Five on Sammy, FT to cut it to one.

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:14
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Speights is an offensive savant.

Gotta get a stop now.

Not confident in it though.

Speights can't be stopped.

NY should milk this clock, I think. They can almost eat the whole thing up.

Up 1, 26 seconds to go. Need defense here, let's see what Jordan puts on the floor.

Speigths!!!!!!!! OMG!

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:16
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Sixers wont make the defensive sub here if Jordan is actually in charge and not ES

Yup, that's what I thought.

That's his fucking defensive lineup.

God damned idiot.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 21:18
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Speights took way too long to rotate and didn't even contest.

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:17
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EJ at his finest.

No chance to get a big stop when needed. If that was tipped that was definitely a goaltend.

Iverson or AIG9?

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 21:17
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Why would you have Iverson on the floor if you need defense?

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Alvin reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 21:19
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Because you're Eddie Jordan.

Just take the 20-footer at the buzzer, end the misery. make/miss, win/lose.

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:18
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Not sure any other coach in the league has Speights in over Brand there. I know he's going good but come on its not even a question what to do there

"They were playing with harmony" (licks braces) "and effort."

They tried to go to Speights, he got doubled. Wound up with a Carney three at the buzzer, missed. That last play isn't where the game was lost, it was lost on the other end of the floor when Jordan didn't make a defensive sub. Fucking pitiful.

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Steve reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 21:28
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Don't you think AI9 deserves alot of the blame for this loss? He pretty much pulled a Tim Thomas on offense by barely going inside the three point line all night long. Jordan could've put Jrue in for AI at the end but I dont put this loss on the coach.

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:20
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Hey that was actually a nice desperation pass by Speights and Carney got a really good look. Lost the game on the other end, whats new...

Carney for 3????? 1 DOWN and carney for 3????? EJ playbook for final moments is a comic book.

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johnrosz reply to xavier on Jan 13 at 21:23
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I actually liked that the ball was in Mo's hands out of the timeout, Carney was hot all night and had a wide open look, don't see that as a bad shot at all off of a broken play

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:24
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Guys triple teamed and the team is down one...yes a last second 3 at the buzzer is a bad play...but many of the sixers had bad shot selection all night, why should the last play be any different

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 21:32
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It was a broken play that produced an open look for a guy that was shooting the ball well. It doesn't matter though, that possession shouldn't have ever been needed if EJ had pulled some other strings correctly

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:33
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I don't think passing is something Speights is good at - just not instinctual - i didn't see the play - but if he's triple teamed - at least 2 guys are open - i don't know how long it took him to realize he needed to pass or who the other guy was - i think going to speights is a coaching mistake cause you KNOW he's going to get doubled/tripled and he's not a good passer

Speoghts made the correct pass. Cross court to Iverson with 5 sec left. That is exactly who he should have passed it to.

No one was wide open because the Sixers had cleared the side for Speights. They had all 4 players bunched on the other side, so none where wide open.

Knicks score on their last 5 possessions. Not surprised.

11 points in their last 5 possessions.

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:25
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Stefanski had to go over this whole defense/offense thing with EJ...

They didn't run one shred of offense tonight either. In the first quarter they were just making shots and it was mostly AI.

That performance against the zone was um... not good.

bench outscored the starters, and brand really didn't do a whole lot either.

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:28
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It's like a given for Jordan that the Knicks were gonna score on the other end. His thought process must have been "alright, well after they score here, they'll be up 1 with 12 seconds left, now what play am i gonna draw up?" Speights and AI in on that defensive possession is absurd.

EJ Offense is BS too...

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eddies' heady's on Jan 13 at 21:39
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Sure would be nice if Andre could find some of that 'pride' that Sam seems to have discovered.

4 pts and taking a third of our 3 pt attempts? No trips to the free throw line? Can you say "star"....?

I know something tangible he doesn't do for his team - lead them to wins, coach be damned.

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johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Jan 13 at 21:47
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I think Iggy has a lot of pride, just doesn't have the natural stroke. Not gonna kill him for one terrible game, but he really needs to recognize his shot isnt falling and try to take the ball to the rim. Guy with his speed, strentgh, and athleticism needs to be living at the line on a regular basis

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Jan 13 at 22:00
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Well said.

Agree with johnrosz, eddy's heady is off base, as usual. The thing about Iguodala is that even when his shot isn't falling, he's still helping you. 5 boards, 8 assists, 1 steal, 0 turnovers. And he didn't keep shooting, either. Only 9 shots in 40 minutes.

Terrible shooting night, didn't like his shot selection in the first half, but was still +1 on the floor, that's the benefit of having a guy who contributes more than just scoring, he's still helping you even when he has a night when his shot just isn't falling.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 22:52
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Yeah, if it doesn't fall straight in line with your line of thinking it's always off base. Nothing new there. Like your view of the Sixers and players on the Sixers is the only one. Please...

All those other stats you provided ring mighty hollow when your team lost. You know, stats are for losers, which they were tonight.

And if you're so 'on base' with the tightly grasped stat of +/- and Dre's being +1, then I guess Lou sure provided a lift too with a team high of +4. Please again...


Lou was terrible, how about the 3 turnovers on 4 assists? Lou was 1-7 too, and you know he was terrible. You watched the game and Iggy shot bad but everything else was good. He didn't play well but I mean for shooting so bad, he made a nice impact on the game.

You just kill Iguodala at every chance, that's why people disagree and respond. He's our best player.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Jan 13 at 23:45
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And you know what, it's within everyone's rights to disagree, but you don't see me dismissing anyone else's views on particular players around here.

If I am going to be falsely accused of 'killing him at every chance' then I guess I have to direct you to the proof. Check the game thread from Mon. night and look at how much 'killing' him I did. Oh.....there wasn't any was it?

Go check the archives somewhere around a few days before Christmas and another thread within the last few weeks (when I mentioned blowing it all up from front office to players) and see what I said about the guy when I broached the subject of trading him. My exact quotes were something like 'it pains me to say this..' and 'he's your best and most valued piece..' and 'he gives you the things that every team needs..'. So, can we please tone down the hyperbole?

Look, I don't disagree he's the 'best' we have now. But that's the problem here, to me. If he is our 'best' and getting that big of a portion of our salary cap (btw, I don't blame the guy at all, himself, for getting as much as he could - that falls on ES's lap), then we're in deep shit for the duration of his contract.

Meaning, he somewhat resembles the Iverson scenario before he was shipped out - in the sense that Allen wasn't going to lead us anywhere after getting that huge contract so we would be better off without him. Same thing here to me.

I have watched every game this guy has played with this franchise except for maybe ten games. I don't give a shit about how good his numbers across the board look and his stat-stuffing. He doesn't put you over the top within games, whether tangible or intangible. He doesn't lead you to a victory or provide those crucial, toward-the-end-of-game plays. Screw the clutch shots or buzzer beaters. For as many of those he has, he has nearly double or triple the turnovers on a break or clanged wide-open jumpers.

It's certainly not his fault they gave him so much money, but because they did and the timing of it, the target is on his back - fairly or unfairly. I love the guy and what he can bring to a team, but for my favorite team, at this point, he's nothing but a gimpy hamstring. Because this franchise is hamstrung paying him as a lead gun - with an assembling of pygmyish bullets around him.

Fair enough, and that is a point that I get, but don't totally agree with. I won't dismiss the view though, that wouldn't be right. Number one, I think the argument that we should trade him for McGrady is bad for everyone. It is making people as extreme on both ends as possible.

I don't want people killing Iguodala because he is more than a Shane Battier. He is a creator, and a solid second guy on a championship team. I mean, can we all agree that if we draft/trade for a scoring/shooting wing to be paired with Iguodala, we might have something here? Most also feel that a new coach is needed and a solid team direction, which I totally think is the first step?

My problem is when people attack him personally as a player. There have been a lot of remarks about his leadership, but would anyone argue that the top scorers that they want instead of him are great leaders? That's a valid view, but I don't want to hear that Kobe is a leader, Carmelo is a leader, Joe Johnson (stoic) is a leader, Wade (lone-wolf type) is a leader, Danny Granger is a leader, Monta Ellis is a leader. They really aren't outward leaders and guys like LeBron and maybe Durant (this would be generous) are the exception rather than the rule.

My view is that if he would be paired with a natural scorer/shooter, his stats would be even more valuable. His stats are not hollow either, would you like him to stop rebounding, passing, and taking care of the ball to focus on shooting and scoring. Everyone could argue that Boston is one of the favorites in the East this year and could win the title. Pierce is leading them with a lesser scoring average than Iggy. So it's not necessary to have a guy that fills it up at the 2.

The big thing with Iguodala is that it would be a huge mistake to trade him for simple cap relief. He's way too valuable.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Jan 14 at 1:10
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Sure, if we can move him back full time to the three and get a bonafide two guard that can shoot, damn right we could have something. But only in a perfect world. And with the money they gave him, that makes it a not so perfect world and probably never will be.

If I say something negative about him, I don't consider that 'attacking' him 'personally' as a player. I just call it both ways when I see it. Now, he does seem to be too sensitive a subject for some, but to me, it's no different than when I call out Lou, or Thad, or Sam. They all are players that make up my favorite team. None are above the others, or get free passes for lack of a better term.

It's hard to pinpoint 'leadership' as a whole because it really is abstract to us fans. But particular qualities that I like to see from my lead dog, he just doesn't possess them consistently. All leaders don't have to be outward, as you say. But leadership will typically peer through itself, whether embedded or not. I could go into specifics but it's unnecessary.

His stats very well may not be hollow as a whole. But for this particular team they are, because it hasn't translated to anymore than a .500 team (and a lot of that could be credited to Miller). With even a possible sub-par staff, if his stats carried that much weight, they would overcome their deficiencies and lead us directly to more wins. But when you are maybe the main one tuning out the new staff and new systems almost from the jump, while being the supposed leader, all you'll get is a smidgen of success, if any.

Scoring average and ppg is irrelevant to me. It's more about timing and situations within games. And in this league, you're not going to get 5-10 footers with ease or dunks or layups all game. So no, you don't have to have a guy who fills it up at the 2, but you do have to have a guy that can make those timely jumpers and convert those wide-open looks at a consistent rate at the 2.

On the cap relief point, I agree that you don't give the guy away for just that. He is WAY too valuable. And if this franchise pulls some shit like that, it will take me back to sadness I haven't experienced since we choked in defending our title in the 1st round of the '84 playoffs vs. the tired ass Nets.

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Tray reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 23:03
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Brian, that's true of Shane Battier. On a night when his shot isn't falling, he still helps you. And helps you a whole lot, according to the advanced stat guys. But you can't build around Battier. Or prime Ron Artest. When your best player is a player capable of scoring just 4 points against the Knicks, you will never go anywhere, unless that best player happens to be a brilliant point guard or a great defensive center, like an Alonzo. 5 rebounds and 8 assists are very nice out of your two guard, but these aren't massive contributions that are going to win big playoff games for you. It's not like he's going out there and running the offense for us, or impacting the whole opposing team's play on the defensive end the way a great big man can. He guards one player, and does so very well some nights, pretty well others. Good for him. But it's just one player. Jrue Holiday, if he fulfills your expectations, has more franchise player potential than Iguodala does. He guards a more important position and he plays a position where he doesn't have to score to dominate a game. A shooting guard who's not a good scorer but does everything else really well is sort of like an offensively challenged but defensively brilliant first baseman or leftfielder.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Tray on Jan 13 at 23:28
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Outstanding post. Well said.

Funny how you use my baseball analogy as your own here when you had no response for it when it was originally used in an earlier post.

I expect this type of logic from EH, but I thought you were capable of a little more. I think I know how we can settle this argument, because we're talking about two different things. Whenever you say "best player," I'll just read it as "best scorer," because that's what you really mean. And while Iguodala leads the team in scoring, he is not the team's best scorer. That's a flaw of the roster and probably the system.

I'll even go a step further and admit that by your dense definition of "best player" the Sixers will never win a title if Iguodala is that guy (their best scorer). I'll go even a step further than that, since Iguodala isn't on a max contract, the Sixers could even (if they can move Brand) go out and get a "best player" by your definition (best scorer) and pay him more money than Iguodala. Hence, this new higher-paid player would immediately become the "best player" on the team, by your definition, while anyone who cares to examine things a little more closely can continue to call Andre Iguodala our "best player," because some people actually value things like defense, rebounding, involving teammates. Pedestrian stuff like that.

Fair enough?

Honestly, he forced a couple, but they were sagging off him majorly once they saw him struggling. Jordan never gave him any post-up sets.

This offense is very stagnant about getting the ball to guys in prime position if they are slashers instead of shooters(i.e. Dala et al)

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Rich reply to rswknight on Jan 13 at 22:51
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I think against the zone, a lot of that is on Iguodala instead of Jordan. You can't really post-up against the long zone the Knicks had out there. He's gotta be more aggressive in cutting against the zone and maybe penetrating. Yes, he was open for those threes, but he was just standing there and not actively trying to get to the rim or penetrating. 8 assists and 0 turnovers is nothing to sneeze at though. He played very good defense as well.

Now, if you wanna complain about the offense he ran against man and being under-prepared against the zone, I'm all ears. They didn't run shit offensively.

They were running a basic zone, there are ways to create post touches against zones. Plus, the coach should have been running dive cuts.

Of course, this cuts to one of the many problems I have with Jordan's offense. His system has no way to manufacture easy & cheap looks for anybody. The only look his system will "provide" is an open jumper. Everything else, the player has to get it on his own, or depend on their teammates to create it for them.

As opposed to Mo's offense, for instance, which provided numerous designed chances at layups and lob dunks in the half-court.

That's what I mean. In Jordan's O, if you go cold from the outside, he'll just shrug

depressing loss but hey, the pacers won!

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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:41
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On a positive note, i think these losses reflect terribly on Eddie Jordan. Stefanski has to be irate with the way EJ handled the last minute of the game. If the meeting I'm assuming they had doesn't start to yield some positive results EJ's tenure will be short lived.

i feel for sam. he put out an unbelievable effort tonight and we know what is going on in haiti. it feels so weird to say that he is the only one playing with heart.


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johnrosz on Jan 13 at 21:51
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Anyone catch the shot of the bench after Speights hit that hook shot to put them up 1? Everyone was on their feet cheering except for Elton, who was just sitting there with a smirk

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eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Jan 13 at 22:40
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Yep, and Jrue was leaning over pumping his fists sort of feeling the emotion while EB sitting right beside/behind him was like "Screw his soft non-defending/rebounding ass". lol

And truthfully, with the game EB had, he had no reason to be in pout mode b/c Marreese was on the court.

I think maybe Elton knew, like we knew, that we were just gonna give up a basket at the other end and lose the game. Which is incidentally what happened.

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eddies' heady's reply to Alvin on Jan 14 at 0:20
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Yep, and Speights just parted the water for David Lee and tokenly challenged (if you call watching him come at you and half-ass throwing your arms straight up, token) the converted layup.

I know he didn't want to commit a foul there but he didn't even allow his 6'10" frame and however-long-arm-length to leave its feet. Just grounded. Pitiful.

Probably Iguodala's fault.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 14 at 1:20
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That play? No, he was on the other side of the floor following Gallinari with terrible positioning if there were a missed shot and rebound.

The game? Yes, because if he just doesn't jack one, just one, of those threes, instead creating for himself or someone else which he is more than adept at doing or getting to the line off of said creation, it may be a different outcome. I mean, I know that's under the microscope but that is usually the refrain here if it pertains to the coach or a sub or Willie or Lou, so why not him too.

Like I said, Iguodala's fault.

The only streak left I think is how many Player of the Game nods for Sammy. He can't be doing much better than he has in the past several games.

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JohnEMagee on Jan 13 at 23:10
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The ability of some people to diagnose a persons thoughts from a one second glance at their facial expression without EVER having met the person fascinates me...it's unique to a certain kind of sports fan.

I've noticed he tends to like Howard Eskin as well

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eddies' heady's reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 14 at 0:01
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Kind of like diagnosing a person's character and personality from just reading their posts on a message board?

Oh, that's kind of unique to only you isn't it?

Oops.... unique along with you knowing who people have met or talked to in their travels or lifetime. You really should try tarot cards.

I was at the game again. What a horrible game. Was surrounded by Knick's fans. The guy was sitting next to me talking about if the Knicks reach the finals, how he is going to buy alot of souveniers.

Anyway, Jordan reverted back to his way of coaching. What a pitiful rotation for the end of the game. I hope he and us are put out of our misery soon by Jordan being fired.

It is so hard to watch this team play this way.

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eddies' heady's on Jan 14 at 1:04
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Sure, if we can move him back full time to the three and get a bonafide two guard that can shoot, damn right we could have something. But only in a perfect world. And with the money they gave him, that makes it a not so perfect world and probably never will be.

If I say something negative about him, I don't consider that 'attacking' him 'personally' as a player. I just call it both ways when I see it. Now, he does seem to be too sensitive a subject for some, but to me, it's no different than when I call out Lou, or Thad, or Sam. They all are players that make up my favorite team. None are above the others, or get free passes for lack of a better term.

It's hard to pinpoint 'leadership' as a whole because it really is abstract to us fans. But particular qualities that I like to see from my lead dog, he just doesn't possess them consistently. All leaders don't have to be outward, as you say. But leadership will typically peer through itself, whether embedded or not. I could go into specifics but it's unnecessary.

His stats very well may not be hollow as a whole. But for this particular team they are, because it hasn't translated to anymore than a .500 team (and a lot of that could be credited to Miller). With even a possible sub-par staff, if his stats carried that much weight, they would overcome their deficiencies and lead us directly to more wins. But when you are maybe the main one tuning out the new staff and new systems almost from the jump, while being the supposed leader, all you'll get is a smidgen of success, if any.

Scoring average and ppg is irrelevant to me. It's more about timing and situations within games. And in this league, you're not going to get 5-10 footers with ease or dunks or layups all game. So no, you don't have to have a guy who fills it up at the 2, but you do have to have a guy that can make those timely jumpers and convert those wide-open looks at a consistent rate at the 2.

On the cap relief point, I agree that you don't give the guy away for just that. He is WAY too valuable. And if this franchise pulls some shit like that, it will take me back to sadness I haven't experienced since we choked in defending our title in the 1st round of the '84 playoffs vs. the tired ass Nets.

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eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Jan 14 at 1:05
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Sorry, this was a reply to Rich above.

Jeeze, Dwight Howard is just terrible. 1/7 from the floor, only 8 points. He's no superstar.

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charlesbrooks on Jan 14 at 23:24
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