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A Decent Loss

deepsixersuede on Jan 30 at 8:17

L.Will., the court has two ends, if you don!t believe me, ask Marreese, while your sitting next to him on the bench.

lol Lou is killing me!

officially worried bout Iguodala now. he doesnt really seem to be IN the game as much.

AI9 has checked out. Put yourself in his shoes, we can go on w/ life while Jordan is his life. What a miserable life!

JohnEMagee on Jan 30 at 11:23


The coach turned on him
The franchise has turned on him
and more and more fans are turning on him

Call him out for being 'sackless' or heartless but when the writing is on the wall at your job and you know you're 3/4 of the way out the door, how much 'full effort' do you put in.

It's completely understandable if the guy who played his heart off for his entire career here and is about to be unceremoniously shoved out the door has a few off games.

Sure - that makes the fans more anxious to trade him but at this point, losing him and watching him win in another town is what most fans deserve

eddies' heady's reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 30 at 16:56

Well I've been in this situation before, in that a previous job gave a layoff date but 180 days away. I continued to give full effort til the very last day because 1) it was still my 'job', 2) that's just my character, and 3) if those previous two were lacking, a retention bonus was offered.

Since he obviously can't find the heart to give 'full effort', like T.O.'s publicist said about the infamous overdose incident, I can think of 80 million reasons for him to show 'full effort'. And if those 80 aren't enough, I can think of 12 others - his teammates.

Iguodala quote below:

"You get asked about it by family and friends," he said. 'What's going on?' 'What can happen?' There are a lot of different scenarios that can come up, and 95 percent of them are just rumors. I think the most important thing is, wherever you are at that moment in time, you'd better give 100 percent of your time and focus on the job you have."

Maybe he should practice what he preaches, no?

MG77 reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 30 at 20:18

Please. People in Philly are unduly harsh on Iggy and probably have unrealistic expectations of him as a player. Still, he is getting paid top dollar to play and 'checking' out is just unacceptable.

I still like what Iggy brings to the court on both ends (except the nights when he tosses up 5 or 6 3s and lazy jumpers). Of the court, he leaves a lot to desired. Talks like a leader but has had some notable instances including Game 5 last year where he played terribly and largely passed the buck.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 11:44

I liked that Jordan stayed with Iverson in the fourth quarter and kept Williams on the bench. Iverson was going well and the Lakers' size made playing two little guys a bad move.

Iverson was fun to match, but I was struck by how easily Kobe scored his points in the second half and how hard Iverson had to work to get his.

JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 11:51

Playing two little guys who are both GENEROUSLY listed at 6' tall is always a bad move...playing two shooting guards in th back court is a bad move...Eie Joran loves him some short shooting guards

Yeah. of all the games this season, this is one of the ones I have the least amount to complain about Jordan on. He kept Thad at the 4 limited almost exclusively to when the Lakers went "small" with Odom at the 4. I don't think Iverson/Lou were on the court at the same time together once, and he kept one of Jrue/Iguodala on Kobe for most of the night (sans that short stretch where Thad was on him), and he resisted the urge to play Speights and his offense and actually played Dalembert/Brand an extended amount of time.

Was it perfect? Well, no. I would have preferred more Jrue instead of Green, and honestly I don't think I would have played Young at the 4 at all, but I grade Jordan on a curve, and last night he got an A.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 11:45

*Iverson was fun to watch

The Greek on Jan 30 at 12:03

Hey Lou Williams:

Shut your fucking mouth and learn how to play some defense. Before the season your bragged how you wouldn't change your game and just play Lou style offense and now your surprised that your coming off of the bench?

And now you want to go and bitch on Twitter? Shove your tweet up your ass little man If you get traded I will volunteer to drive you to your next destination and hopefully your good guy friend and the columnists sweety Terrible Willie Greene will be riding in the back seat.

Willie Greene, dude has a stretch of 2 good games every season and then the reporters come out with some bullshit Willie Bringing energy and leadership article.

Tom More I respect the hell out of you but your guilty of this as are others. I remember accusing Narduci of this 2 years ago before he hid in the woods and quit his blog. I am thoroughly convinced that Willie interacts and hangs out with the media more then any other sixer player and that's why the reporters love him. Good guy I am sure but on the court he is a Dooshbag, write that.

Tom Moore reply to The Greek on Jan 30 at 16:48

Willie Green is a role player, not a star. He has been in the rotation of every Sixers coach during his time with the team. He tends to be a streak shooter, but he can get his own shot and is a decent defender and a good teammate. I'm not sure why so many people are so down on him. To paraphrase what Jim O'Brien used to say, "He is what he is."

JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 17:00

Why are people down on him

1. He has a horrible contract - players like him shouldn't get 5 year deals - not his faults
2. He gets way too many minutes -= whether he's hot or cold
3. He's not better offensively than louis williams because he doesn't draw fouls and he doesn't pass all that much
4. Being a better defender than lou williams is like having better foot work than Sam Dalembert - you're better but you still might suck.
5. HE TAKES AWAY MINUTES FROM JRUE HOLIDAY - because the head coach is a moron

Ryan F reply to Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 17:04

I feel the same way. Willie is a decent player and I'm sure he would fit on some better teams quite nicely in the proper role. He gets a hard time because he is forced to play extended minutes because our other "2 guards" are always too small to guard a HS player, and some guy gave him too much money. Oh and some of the fans are just dicks.

I think my biggest problem with Willie is this rotation. When we start with Iverson and Williams for a large majority of the season, by the time Willie comes in off the bench I'm sick of midget, streaky shooting, penetrating shooting guards masquerading as points.

If Iverson wasn't signed, and Lou's traded, and our starting backcourt in future years is Holiday/Iguodala (or a similarly sized 2 with Iguodala at the 3), and Willie's a 15 minute per game bench player, I probably have little problem.

Most of my problem with Willie is more how he's used than anything actually having to do with him.

JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Jan 30 at 17:13

Willie's a 15 minute per game bench player,

And that's really the primary point - not really his fault the coach is an idiot - but Willie Green is a 15 minute per game bench player.

To add to what others have said:

Green annoys me because he makes so many stupid decisions on both ends of the court. Bad shots, bad switches, bad ball handling decisions. He seems like he is always overestimating his capabilities by a wide margin.

MG77 reply to Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 20:23

Are you kidding me? Willie Green is a 'decent' defender? Adequate at best and Willie shoots jumpers (and makes a ton of shaky decisions on the offensive end) whether or not his shot is going down.

Am watching this one right now.

Love the fact that Jrue was on Kobe early, and twice Kobe got in the lane but had Jrue right in his face with both hands up and tried to lay it off to Bynum/Gasol and it resulted in a turnover. Kobe didn't score in the first six minutes. One way of looking at it is that Kobe looks to let his teammates get going early, but I think defense has a bit to do with it. Of course, I know that Jrue didn't get much playing time for the rest of the game. Oh well.

I'm a quick, undersized shoot-first point guard who is a streaky but not lights-out shooter. Bigger guards abuse me on the blocks, and quicker ones abuse me off the dribble.

I'm Lou Williams. No wait, I'm Allen Iverson.

Sorry Lou, but bringing back AI3 made you redundant. He does all the things you do, just a little bit better. And any competent coach would realize there just aren't enough minutes for two players who fit the above description.

On the other hand...if you ever played some lockdown defense, you'd be offering a valuable skill that the better you doesn't and won't ever have.

Not that it would make a difference with your coach. Sigh.

Kingtizz on Jan 30 at 12:53

Maaan I yet again saw a horribly coached game. Everytime thad is a SF while AI9 is at SG we outplay the other team, yet they RARELY EVER PLAY TOGETHER.
He takes Iggy off of Kobe and Kobe hits a spectacular shot on Willie that lights a fire under him turning him unconsious. The team has cohesion and is making a run (i think 72-67) then he takes BRAND out, why? Willie Green is not scoring yet plays extremely extended minutes, if hes not scoring WHAT ELSE IS HE DOING. Early in the game when iverson wasn't scoring (and playing fairly bad) and Jrue was playing smart on offense and hard on Kobe, he decides to have WILLIE "brings nothing to the table unless i make contested shots" GREEN in for who else but Jrue. The only thing that i can give kudos to EJ for is leaving Sam in the game. The only reason that E.J's idiocracy didnt translate to the boxscore was because Allen Iverson went biserk.

johnrosz on Jan 30 at 14:49

How dejected have we all become that we are almost "satisfied" with Eddie Jordan and the Sixers last night? The team loses by 20 points if AI doesn't go into 2001 mode.

Iguodala looks to be on another planet right now, Jrue just sits on the bench wide eyed and confused. Speights is a cheerleader, Thad seems to have given up on the concept of defense. Lou sits there with his head in his hands.

Is it fair to blame EJ for the regression of our young players? I dont know, but I think it's hard to argue that he has helped them in any way,shape, or form.

ANother grim loss in my mind...

Totally agree about Elton and Sammy playing really well last night. If Cleveland were to get them and Iggy in that blow it up type of move, I think last night is indicative of them waltzing to the title. That would be worst case scenario, but I just need Jordan out of here, though he coached alright by his standards last night. The Jrue thing still boggles my mind though.

No way he or any coach looking for wins would have done it...

But it would have been great to see EJ send Jrue back out there in the late 3rd when Kobe was going off with instructions to lock him up. Jrue would not have slowed Kobe down, but that type of experience is invaluable IMO.

Along the same lines, when the wheels are coming of during a 2nd or 4th qtr run the coach should say "Jrue go in there and settle them down."

Again, its a a lot to ask for from a 19 y/o, but that is the type of experience you want him to get. Challenge him to be a leader that gets the team back under control.

This is what I mean by player development. Along the same lines, if the team is being killed on the boards, send Speights in with the orders to take over the glass. Physically he can do it. Mentally he likely will fail, but until you challenge him and let him know that he can earn minutes this way he'll never improve.

That's what good player development coaches do. They identify an untapped talent and then find ways to challenge the kids to earn time by tapping into it.

And desperate coaches will always go with the vet with lower upside. They'd rather have a bad Willie Green who they no will execute then risk a more talented Jrue that might make mistakes. Coaches want to minimize uncertainty so they can feel more in control. Especially coaches who feel that the next mistake could cost them their job.

Rich reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 15:54

2 things on Jrue:

1. Jordan said after the game that Andre did as good of a job you can do on Kobe, he just makes shots on everyone like that. Well, what would be the problem with Jrue having the same shots hit in his face? Give the kid a chance. I would have thrown him on Kobe for one main reason, Kobe would have went into "I'm not giving this up mode," and that gives you a fighting chance even though they still lose that game. But here's the big thing: Did anyone else see why Artest hit those threes last night? They had EB on him and he went way under on the P and R. For the life of me, I don't know why you wouldn't take Thad out and let Brand play Odom and Iggy/Jrue get Kobe/Artest in any order. Or let Artest be played by Thad, IDK why EB was on Ron Ron there.

2. Yeah, let Jrue settle us down. How much pressure is it to settle down a terrible team, you know? He's a gamer, he can do it.

johnrosz on Jan 30 at 15:52

If there's anything to be encouraged about with this team, Elton seems to be rounding back into form. Give him another week or 2 of improved play, and maybe you can find a taker for that contract. If we have to give up our first round pick in order to unload Iguodala+Brand...would you guys do it? I might, considering it's so hard in the nba to be able to hit the reset button, these opportunities don't come along that often

"Andre Iguodala had his second bad game in a row. I'm really worried that the swirling trade rumors are bothering him and he's taking it out on the court with him. He needs to put that stuff out of his mind and do his job."

Don't see how this is something to worry about, it just makes us better in the loss column. You have finally quit on this season, right? My only fear would be that he could diminish his trade value.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 16:50

Brand was extremely active last night. He was blocking shots, running down loose balls, getting steals.

On the other hand, I didn't think Young played well again, especially in the second half. He seems a bit off.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 16:52

Thought Holiday did a good job early on Bryant. While I would've liked to see him out there in the fourth quarter, don't know how much he could've done with the way Kobe was hitting jumpers, several of them vs. double-teams.

JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 17:01

"While i would have liked to see him (holiday) out there in the fourth quarter"

It'll be surprising when that ISN'T a comment that can be made about a sixers game.

Again, I'm less concerned about beating the Lakers. More concerned about finding ways to develop our young players.

So forget about sending out a vet with a hope of stealing a win. Find spots where our young players can have specific goals that help them improve. Whether that is trying to D up the other teams focal point when they are on fire, or grab some boards when the other team has gone big. Find definable goals for the young players in each game at let the, succeed or fail.

Much more important than wins or losses at this point. In fact its the only important thing right now- and its the last thing ES or EJ have on there minds. Their top priority is finding wins to justify their continued employment.

Its incredibly hard to be a fan when the management and Coach have goals that run counter to those of reasonable fans and the long term needs of the team.

Rich reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 17:31

This is even dumber because Willie is not even a guy like Iverson, who while old and declining, still realistically should be in the final rotation. The Willie thing is even worse because on a day-to-day basis, Jrue gives us a better chance to win than Willie. Sure, every five games or so Willie will have a shooting streak that will help you win. The rest of the time, not so much. Jrue gives us a pure point guard and a way better defender who does not shoot a lot and usually takes pretty good shots. He makes EB way better and he gives them a better chance to win right now.

You hit the nail on the head. Why is it that the 76ers cannot get it. Look, NYC has the stadium full based upon expectations in the future. Play the young guys, let them work and learn together, and the fans will enjoy the energy out on the court.

Willie Green is not young and does not belong on the court taking time from the other young guys.

Duracorr on Jan 30 at 18:41

While not related to any previous discussion, I just watched Kentucky play Vanderbilt. I tuned in to watch Wall because of all the PR. I was more impressed by Demarcus Cousins, the KY power forward. He is a beast - on both ends of the court.

I keep hearing good things about Cousins. Wonder how high he'll climb in the draft.

He's a beast. If he can control control his inner-Rasheed (did you see the elbow he threw today) and inner-DC, he's a top 3 talent.

Look I think Lou's attitude/work ethic (especially on the defense end) are suspect but I can understand why he is frustrated too.

He went from being the starting PG, getting injured, and then being used erratically due to Jordan's hair-brained rotations and use of the bench. Hell, one night Green plays 25-26 minutes and the next he plays 11-12. Being doing the same thing with several other players too.

I would prefer if Lou would shut his mouth, work hard, and bear down a bit. I can understand though why he is frustrated with what has transpired this season in terms of his role & PT.

c reply to MG77 on Jan 31 at 9:48

That is simply not true. lou's attitude and work ethic are not at issue, where do you get that from? Fine hes is not a good individual defender. he is a decent team defender and there is no evidence to support him having a bad attitude or work ethic.

JohnEMagee reply to c on Jan 31 at 12:00

He's a bad defender, period

Just checked your stats, and u r getting career highs in points, assists, fg% etc. Whats so bad about that??

hahaha that's a post on lou williams' twitter. somebody said that to him and he replied ask eddie...lou is probably pissseeeddd

...if AI9 really is on his way out, who's the next Philly player to get the McNabb Treatment until he's run out of town?

can it PLEASE be either Lou Williams or, if it has to be someone in another sport, Scott Hartnell?

Lou is a better defender than AI and his defense has improved as this year has gone on. AI is never asker to guard the better player when both are in the game. The sixers need to defend better as a team. You dont allow a 6'6" player to repeatedly post up a six foot player. Lou is not lazy he always plays hard. So greek, shut your fucking mouth!!!

Jeff reply to c on Jan 31 at 10:29

I have an idea, how about next sixers game let's make careful observations on Lou's defense, and more importantly his team defense.
Some specific things to watch:
1. How many times he leaves his defender to overhelp when it's completely unnecessary.
2. How many times he completely loses track of his man he's guarding.
3. How many times he allows the man he's guarding to blow right by him to the hoop.
4. How many times he fails to rotate quick enough to contest a shot.
5. How many times he runs up to contest but fails to actually put his hands up in the opponent's face.

Once you add up all of these mistakes you will see that he is both not a good individual or team defender.
Granted, there are some games where his defense is not too bad (against the Hornets, for example), but most of the time he is a defensive liability. Hence: why he is not starting anymore.

The Greek reply to c on Jan 31 at 11:52

lol is this Lou WIlliams writing back under the alias of C? Your a god awful defender Lou, you do know that right?

The Greek reply to sfw on Jan 31 at 11:58

I was kidding around saying that was Lou who commented above but know I really believe it. Being that this is the sixers blog with the most traffic i am sure that he probably surfs here. Maybe after he got done crying on twitter he came over here to gauge the pulse of the fans.

Hey Lou, your jumper sucks, your passing is pathetic due to your shitty court vision, and there are dead people that you couldn't cover 1 on 1.

Like I said I will drive your dumbass to the next destination, gas and tolls are on me.

check out my trade on espn!!!!!!!espnhttp://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg3qqx9
We give away iggy and sammys contract.
We trade away lou to give jrue more minutes.
We get tmac's expiring contract.
We replace iggy with ariza which can defend exceptionally and can shoot the 3 better but not as good passing and rebounding.

rchap13 reply to rchap13 on Jan 31 at 11:42

actually try this one

JohnEMagee reply to rchap13 on Jan 31 at 12:02

Yeah, any trade that swaps out Iguodala and gets the sixers Ariza instead I hate

rchap13 reply to JohnEMagee on Jan 31 at 12:37

but u get rid of sammy's horrible contract and you also get 22m of expiring contracts and jrue and ai get more pt

Sam expires after next year. Other than saving Comcast a few dollars of possible tax, getting rid of him one year early does nothing.

I'm a Sixers fan and not a Comcast fan. So if a team wants to take Brand's contract then great. But taking a productive player who comes off the books next year is not doing the Sixer fans any favors.

rchap13 reply to tk76 on Jan 31 at 12:50

yeah that is true.

JohnEMagee reply to rchap13 on Jan 31 at 12:56

Sammy's contract isn't horrible

The sixers only have ONE bad contract

they do have a poorly constructed roster, an idiot coach and an incompetent GM but to me only ONE bad contract.

Tk76 hates it :)

Ugh. Not much civil discourse.

Can't wait until the trade deadline has passed.
Can't wait until EJ is gone (and ES)
Can't wait until the draft.

This season and the discussions around the team continues to get more unpleasant.

I'll watch todays game as a glass half full. If they win it will be enjoyable to watch. If they lose it will just be further evidence that change is needed.

But the wrong changes scare the hell out of me.

JohnEMagee on Jan 31 at 12:55

On a side note in the sam Dalembert universe, I believe there is 'little enough' money left on his contract that the trade kicker is close to or less than 3 million dollars, which means comcast could kick in close to the entire value of said kicker when moving him.

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