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Iguodala Rumors Taking Shape

Funny quote from Iguodala:

"It might be a big hole, but I think in the past nobody thought we had the talent to do it," said swingman Andre Iguodala. "I think with this group, we have a little bit more talent, so we know what we can do, and we have a little bit more confidence. We know we should win certain games."

Worse record with better talent = coach of the year.

I'd do the second trade regardless of whether Beaubois is included or not lol.

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Levent on Feb 5 at 7:20
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I don't think Dallas will do it,but I liked it.

Man, that first trade is such a bad idea. If we offered amare max money, he'd definitely take it right? What a nightmare.

I'm fairly confident that the Sixers are looking at Amare Stoudemire as an expiring contract, not as part of their long term plans.

I'm wondering if it would make a big difference to them if he opted in for next season. If he did, that would give them something like $38M in expiring deals heading into the following summer, and some of them would have beaucoup trade value.

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Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 8:24
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Wouldnt his stats take a hit if he didnt opt out this year and played for the sixers an extra year? Nash raises people's numbers, and Amare has to know that. He would not get the same pay-day if he waited till the year after.

I have a hard time believing he's going to get a salary starting at $17M from anyone this summer no matter what he does.

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sam reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 9:16
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I disagree. I am not sure what NJ's salary cap looks like, but they could use all the help they can get in regards to their attendance. Arent they the only team that promotes jerseys for the opposing team?

I think it does, with the luxury tax looming. I'd have to crunch the numbers to see how much they'd be saving next year if Stoudemire stayed on.

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Shawn reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 5 at 8:22
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This is the same guy that hired Eddie Jordan. The same guy that thought signing Brand to max money was a slam dunk. Anything is possible with this guy. Amare was 1st team All-NBA player, throws up crazy numbers when he cares, and gets a lot of media coverage. Call me crazy but his expiring deal over tracy mcgrady's expiring deal doesnt make sense because you're effectively getting better at exactly the wrong time. If they did this trade, it would be a signal that they want this guy for real.

I have serious, serious doubts that trading Dalembert and Iguodala for Stoudemire will make this team better in any way. They may score more points, but their defense will be a complete joke. They may be more fun to watch, but it's not going to translate into wins, no way.

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Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 8:27
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Good point. With the t-mac deal they might not have enough rotational depth as well. Kapono starting!!?!?!

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AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 5 at 9:11
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Both of these deals sound nuclear to me. There is no way Stoudamire opts back in for another year in Philly. the team will be a mess and he will not want to stay. Someone else will sign him to a big deal. Even if we we did extend him for 5 yrs at $18mm, i argue thats a better use of 'big money' then with either of the 2 guys we have now. stoudamire is 27 years old. but let me be clear, i would not want to re-sign him

Either way, i am happy as a pig in $hit when Iguodala brings his stench somewhere else. Let someone else pay a 4th fiddle $15mm. We will never win with that guy unless we are willing to pay the luxury tax (which we will never do). I did a ton of analysis at the end of an earlier article, which no one really saw, comparing our Iggy/Brand contract to every single $20mm +, 2-man contract in the NBA. And the mess we are in is not pretty.


Sometimes fans of this team crack me up.

1. This franchise was willing to pay the luxury tax as recently as three years ago. Saying they absolutely will not in the future has no base in reality. Honestly, can you blame them for not wanting to pay it next season, considering the team is 14 games below .500 right now?

2. What exactly do you mean by Iguodala's "stench?" Are you trying to say the guy sucks? If so, I don't really know how to respond to you, you're simply mistaken. If you want to argue that he isn't a centerpiece, or he's overpaid, or whatever, fine. But saying the guy sucks, or being giddy at the thought of riding him out of town is just sick. By any definition, Andre Iguodala is a very, very good basketball player. A player that contending teams are clamoring over right now, yet somehow he's just horrible in the eyes of Philly fans. Ironically, it has a lot to do with comparing him to the past two superstars in Philly, both of whom begged to leave until the team had to move them for pennies on the dollar.

The silver lining of a deal like this, if it happens, is that (a) Iguodala will actually get to play somewhere with fans who appreciate him and (b) the Iguodala haters will have to blame someone else for the team's shitty play. It'll probably be Brand.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 14:49
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by stench i mean a bad contract. i obviously dont think he stinks. mgmt can say they are willing to pay the tax, but have they ever? please correct me if i am wrong. We are 23rd in payroll now. have we ever been in the upper 1/2 of salary in the league? im not arguing to pay the tax or not pay - i really dont care. But as long as we plan to be in the lower tier of NBA salaries, we need to be smarter with contracts. sorry, but Iggy's is terrible. he is not worth it because he is paid like a centerpiece and he is not one. he will work out terrific for a team with 2 other stars. i just really hate the fact that we paid up and i knew he wasnt a star. now its back to the drawing board.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 5 at 14:51
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Iguodala doesn't have a bad contract either

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 15:32
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oh its not ? $15mm a year for a non-all star. $15mm for a guy who makes you cringe every time he takes a jumper in crunch time ?

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 5 at 15:35
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Logic is sometimes more useful in debates than emotional hyperbole

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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 16:20
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Iguodala does have a bad contract and the Sixers agree, since they are trying to trade him and all.

By that logic, don't at least a handful of contending teams disagree?

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Feb 5 at 16:48
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Well that's specious logic, since I believe the trades are motivated by the need to get under the luxury tax in 2011 and no one wants Elton Brand or Sam Dalembert alone.

I think the fact that teams would consider Dalembert or Brand as long as they got Iguodala contradicts the 'bad contract' theory.

Stefanski painted the franchise into a luxury tax corner and that's more important to them than basketball and Iguodala is the only piece of any value they can trade to get out of that corner.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 17:15
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i think other teams contending for a title are less concerned that the guy is worth $11mm instead of $15mm. trying to build a team around a non-star and paying him like a star makes it a bad contract for us.

you keep talking about logic, but im not going to compare other teams situations with ours. we saddled a ton of money on two players who will never get us to better than the 4 seed in the WEAK East over the lives of their contracts. hence bad contracts. i want nothing short of a chanpionship team and we havent been elite since barkley. dont talk to me about the iverson squad that won the East. that team was barely top 10 in the NBA

i have not heard one reason why Brian or JohnEMCGee think the contract is good. i simply think he is not a star

Is there any reason you keep saying $15M? His contract is $12.2M this year, averages $13.7 for the remaining years, and doesn't reach $15M until 2013.

And if you'd like some logic as to why I say he isn't overpaid, you can either search through the archives of this blog, or you can get over your obsession with points-per-game and take a look at his overall game. He's one of the best two-way players in the game right. He contributes in every area. He's a plus rebounder, plus distributor, plus-plus defender, and he's an efficient scorer. Players like him are few and far between.

If it makes you feel better to pump his salary up by $3M and then lump him together with Brand to make your argument, that's fine. I've humored you enough on the matter, though. You don't like the guy, you want him gone, and there's really no logic behind it at all. That's your prerogative, just stop pretending like this is based on anything other than your distaste for him because he doesn't fit your mold of a superstar.

I can't find records going back beyond 05-06 for who paid how much, but I believe they were over the luxury tax in the following years:

01-02 - $56M+ ($42.5M cap)
02-03 - $65M+ ($40.3M cap)
03-04 - $57M+ ($43.8M cap)
04-05 - $63M+ ($43.9M cap)

USA Today's database was the only source I could find easily.

I post this yesterday at Libertyballers:

Personally I would rather see the Ed's gone first, and the consider moves this summer...

But if they had to do a trade, the only one I’d consider is what Sixerfan1976 mentioned is being discussed with Dallas. He’s a “insider” with very debatable credibility.

"...dallas basically doesnt have a young player they would move(like Rod beaubois who is offlimits)..so they are debating taking on iguodala and brand together to make something work…we would dump all our long term salaries in that case.…"


I don’t want to deal away Iguodala and keep Brand. That only makes rebuilding harder. But I would definitely consider getting rid of Brand and Iguodala in the same deal, even if we got nothing back (I’d even take 5M of bad long-term contract back.)

That would mean by summer ‘11 the biggest remaining contract would be Lou at 6M. They would have a big hole to climb out of (and need to land a superstar in the lottery to rebuild around) but at least they would not have any dead weight and still have a bunch of young players. Much preferable to carrying Brand’s growing contract for another 3.5 years- and I’m sure Brand would like a shot to help a winner.

BTW- if they did dump Brand and Iguodala and then turn around and sign other non-superstars to long deals I'd be pissed.

They should not clear cap space just to spend it. If they are going to rebuild they need to take the long view. As I've said before, I lack faith in Ed in this regard. He has tried short cuts in the past and would be even more moticates to pull of a band-aid job.

Would prefer the blowup move of the 2 choices but getting rid of EJ would be my first move.

Doesn't Dallas have to take brand/Iggy if they can keep boob? Does that team not become the team to beat?

I'd be worried about their interior defense. In all honesty, they need Dalembert if they're trading away Dampier. They'd have to start Brand at the five.

Bob Cooney: Time for Sixers to make a fresh start
POSTED: February 5, 2010 By Bob Cooney

Daily News Sports Columnist

February 5, 2010 Bob Cooney: Time for Sixers to make a fresh start By Bob Cooney
Philadelphia Daily News
Daily News Sports Columnist

DO IT, Ed. Just do it.

Pull up the lever from the big black box, and lower it fast and with all the strength you can muster and blow up the franchise.

The trade deadline is now 2 weeks away. General manager Ed Stefanski has to take a whole new approach than anticipated at this time, since his team has tumbled to a 17-31 record.

Before this season started, fans didn't expect to contend for a title. A top-four seeding in the Eastern Conference was probably a reach, too.

What was totally unexpected was this: a season of utter disappointment and a team totally void of any type of character.

So it's time, Ed. Time to implode. Have a fire sale like no other in franchise history. Ideally, and this is not breaking news, it would be great for the Sixers to get rid of any player and as much salary as they can, and take as little back as they can.

Let's talk about the money. No significant salaries come off the books after this season. Andre Iguodala, perhaps the most attractive name as rumors swirl about possible trades, is under contract for 4 more years after this, maxing out at just under $16 million for the 2013-14 season.

I've stated many times before that Iguodala is just not in the right role here. He is being asked to be the star of this team, when actually he would be better suited as a co-star, or even better, a third option on a team that has a couple of stars. Nothing against Iguodala, who continually puts up good numbers even if his on-court personality doesn't draw in fans, but get what you can for him and do it immediately. Dallas, Cleveland, Phoenix, whoever it is, get what you can and cut ties and, hopefully, take little salary back beyond this year.

This Sixers team needs to both come into money and not make the playoffs - maybe not be in playoff contention for a couple of years, to truly turn things around from what was stubborn mediocrity that has now turned into bad.

The team is on the hook to Elton Brand for 3 more years, averaging about $17 million a year. Despite his recent resurgence in play, in which he's looked close to the 20-10 player that all tagged him to be when he signed here in the summer of 2008, no one in the league is looking to take on his salary. He is here to stay.

The play of center Sam Dalembert has been good for the Sixers, as he's been piling up double-doubles faster than Toyota can make recalls. After this season, he is under contract for 1 more year at $12.2 million. This is an interesting call. Has he played well enough that teams might want to take a chance on grabbing him? Don't forget, any team that does take him also must pay him a 3 percent contract kicker. Can't see anyone going for that, so Sam stays - at least for the rest of this season.

When guard Lou Williams signed his 5-year, $25 million contract before last season, I thought it was a great move by the team, even if he remained the first sub off the bench for the entire contract. My thinking was that if he was coming off the bench, the team had an established point guard and was good enough to have a player of his caliber as a sub. He was named a starter before the season, but appears to be a better fit coming off the pine. He could have many suitors.

After a successful second-year last season, many thought forward Thaddeus Young was poised for a breakout season. It really hasn't happened. In fact, like most of the team, Young has taken a step backward. Much of the problem is that he is the same type of player as Iguodala, thus searching for his place while Iguodala logs many minutes. I'd like to see what he could do if given the freedom.

Allen Iverson? I hear people saying that contenders who need one more scorer or an insurance policy at guard might want to take a chance, but I don't see it. I think he finishes his career this year with the team.

Forward Marreese Speights has 3 years left after this at cheap money. He is a tremendous offensive talent and could garner some interest.

Other players and their salaries would be throw-ins to match salaries and complete trades. So what to do? That is what keeps Stefanski working the phone lines.

"We've been through the league more than once," said Stefanski of his trade talk with other teams. "We've talked to numerous teams. You never know until it gets closer to the deadline whether a deal is going to pop or not. But we are looking for value back. If we make a trade, we are looking to improve the basketball team, not just to get rid of players."

That's the real problem. Is there enough core here to build on? And who is it? It seems this team is filled with role players, and if you can't get a superstar or two quickly, they'll continue to be that.

Stefanski went on to say: "We feel we're underachieving. We have to get better, obviously. We've been competitive, but we're not getting over the top. Does a move have to happen? It will only happen if we feel it's going to improve the basketball team. If it's a move that is going to take a step backward, we're not going to do that."

Like many fans who watch and root, Stefanski is a competitive guy. Accepting losses will never be a way of life for him, nor should it. But this franchise needs to start from scratch.

"Do we want to trade Andre Iguodala? No," Stefanski said. "But will we talk if people want to talk about him? Sure. It's just like if we talk to another team about another player. It's the same way.

"Where we are right now sitting, we don't have a lot that I would say is hot, but it's still plenty of time even though it's still a little over 2 weeks away. Things could heat up."

Sixers fans have lost patience, and attendance has plummeted. Solution? Nothing is set in stone, obviously. But if there is a way to take a couple of seasons to clean the slate, then build up again, isn't it worth a shot?

Send e-mail to cooneyb@phillynews.com

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/83620427.html

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ItAintEZ reply to Max on Feb 5 at 9:55
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why post the link if you just pasted the whole article?
Just sayin.

You should always paste the link for attribution. Probably shouldn't paste the whole article, though :)


I hate both these deals. At least Brian's Clipper trade proposal brought back talent; these two deals are strictly salary dumps. I still want Stefanski to kick the tires on a Clipper deal. Perhaps we can't get Eric Gordon, but at least the Clippers are loaded with assets and expiring contracts. I just found out on Real GM, that the Clippers have a T-Wolves first round pick, which will be unprotected in a couple years.

http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php

Since the T-Wolves are a bigger rudderless ship then the Knicks, that pick is practically gold. Also if we can get our hands on Camby before the trade deadline, we can then flip him again to another contender for additional assets.

Iguodala for Camby, Thornton, Minnesota's pick; plus what ever we get for flipping Camby to a contender is more appealing to me that a deal to a team that is willing to take on the final year of Dalembert's contract...

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Charlie Ace reply to Max on Feb 5 at 11:11
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"...not just to get rid of players." That's telling.

It's amazing how nobody blames Jordan's coaching, it just has to be the roster. I know coaches don't score points and all, but they can easily wreck a team, even a talented one.

Thornton is useless to me (and NBA basketball teams).

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:17
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Thaddeus Young is approaching that state too

Thornton's 26.

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 5 at 17:53
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I know he's older, but play wise, they're both sad right now

If I have to do one of these deals, I do the Dallas deal in a heartbeat. I simply have ZERO confidence that Stefanski is the guy who should be charged with rebuilding the team, when he was the guy who put us there in the first place.

If they do the Dallas deal, be ready for at least another year of brace-face.

FYI. If anyone's looking for a cut found this by accident during a google search.

C WEBB’S BARBERSHOP
267.914.0479
4125 Woerner Avenue
Levittown, PA. 19057

Stoudemire will not opt out of his contract, given the current economic climate & the uncertain labor market, nobody will offer anything close to 17 Million or a long term deal with anybody. Much less an oft-injured no defense system center.

What this organization needs is a philosophy, and to totally commit to it for a few years. Think about it, when they first traded Iverson away, it was a declaration we are going to rebuild. But they didn't trade away Miller, which invalidated the "rebuild" plan. And of course, they let Miller walk away for nothing. But Miller did give this team two first round playoff appearances.

But the Sixers had a young athletic team, who could score points running up and down the court, so a perfect player to complement them would of course be a traditional low post scorer who's coming off knee(ankle) surgery. (This is of course sarcasm).

And who would be the best coach for this team of poor outside shooting and mediocre half-court offense? Why a man who prides himself on a offensive system that relies on outside shooting and precision half-court offense.

And we really shouldn't talk about signing a non-all star to an all star contract.

AGGGH!!!!!! IF they took a plan and stuck with it this team would be in better shape. Instead of three years of middle draft picks and two first round playoff exits, we would three years of gradual improvement and better draft picks.

Or if we decided to build this team around Brand, then we would have resigned Miller, traded Iguodala & Young for complementary players.

Or if we decided to run the Princeton offense, we would have traded some of our athletes and picked up some pure shooters of a higher quality than Jason Kapano.

But instead, it's been jumping from theory to theory, page to page, making decisions that make sense only when you strip out any plans, context or long term thinking.

Get rid of Brand. Get rid of Iguodala. Get rid of Dalambert, let this team rebuild, take the lumps and rise from the ashes.

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Statman on Feb 5 at 10:35
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How much credibility do you all give to Chad Ford? I first proposed that exact Iguodala-Dalembert for Amare-Barbosa trade on Jan. 21 on these pages, but I never thought Phoenix would go through with it because of the extra salary they'd have to take on. Basketball-wise, it would be the perfect trade for the Suns, though. Basketball-wise, it's a horrible trade for the Sixers (I think Hollinger's player-rater makes the Sixers -12 wins from the trade), but they would be entertaining and maintain fans while having the salary-dump option (it seems that's all they care about right now anyway). And they could pass off the move to the less-than-knowledgeable public as "staying competitive" while actually making the team worse (and thus maintaining draft position).

On an aside, I was just thinking this morning about how Iguodala has missed out on having Larry Brown as his coach (LB had left by the time AI9 came into the NBA, then Cheeks was coaching when LB was free), but I think Iguodala would have been LB's kind of player. How well do you think the 00-01 Sixers could have done against the Lakers if present-day Iguodala could have replaced (an injured) George Lynch in the Finals (and assuming McKie didn't get hurt too)?

Brown could get a lot out of this roster, I'm certain of that. Iguodala, as he is now, would've made that 2001 team a ton better, but still probably not enough to put them over the hump against the lakers that year.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 10:40
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Tom Moore posted yesterday that 'sources' told him that Fords report was a very old news that ESPN is taking credit for as new.

Believe him or not - but he has as much credibility as anyone else - SF1976 said that Amares public comments about 'opting in' have made the sixers worried - they do't want him long term - implying that if Amare doesn't guarantee he opts out - the sixers wouldn't be interested in him.

Since I would have been willing to do andre and sam for dampier and howard, i guess brand and iguodala is fine for me - I expect right now - honestly - the sticking point is that point guard fella. The sixers claim they want talent back for Iguodala not just expiring salaries but the mavs kind of need this kid cause Kidd is aging and Barea just isn't as good.

Personally, if Marc Cuban is willing to pony up and save stefanskis ass like this, stefanski should kiss his boots...i don't care what they say publicly because until iti's done it's all kind of spin, I still think the marching orders are get under the tax and get rid of brand first if you can...just last week he was 'untradeable' - if the mavs are willing to take him on - you have to make that move...his contract combined with his age hamstrings you for a while

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Tom Moore on Feb 5 at 10:41
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Posted yesterday that an NBA source told me Stoudemire for Iguodala and Brand was an "old story."

Sorry, I've been out of it.

Did you get any indication of which side said no, or if they were legit talks?

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 5 at 10:47
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Can you push Stefanski on the Mavs rumors - cause as far as I can see - to cover his backside and get out from that horrible contract - it's a no brainer.

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Tom Moore reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 10:49
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No worries, Brian. A frontcourt of Stoudemire and Brand would not be good defensively. Even if Stoudemire picks up his 2010-11 player option, it'd still be little more than a glorified salary dump because he'd probably leave in 2011. And don't forget he's had microfracture knee surgery. Too risky for the Sixers, IMO.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 5 at 10:55
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Oh - so you still believe that the sixers are making bsketball moves and not financial moves to avoid the 2011 luxury tax?

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, since everything I've seen including a one year off er /low ball ofers to andre miller indicate that comcast cares more about luxury tax payments in the near future than fielding a good basketball team...hell signing iverson was a bad basketball move but it got them that one sell out didn't it?

Whatever their motivation is to make (or not make) these moves, they're on the record as saying their only motivation is to get better on the court, so Stefanski needs to be able to sell any trade he makes at this point through that lens. There are much larger questions that need to be answered, though.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:03
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"Trading Elton Brand with Andre Iguodala for ERic Dampier and Josh Howard, while not making us better on the court immediately, gives us an opportunity to become major players in the biggest free agent bonanaza in the history of the NBA".

It's an easy sell - you convince people you're going to be able to make a play for lebron or bosh or carmelo (they'll ignore the facts of whether it's likely or if there's enough cap room, remember, Ed moved carney to get brand, there's always someone willing to help) or even joe johnson, and people will accept the trade.

I believee moving Brand does more for the long term success of the sixers building a championship team than keeping him and adding younger talent that may achieve stardom but probably won't (cause if so why are th eteams trading them)?

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Tom Moore on Feb 5 at 10:47
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As for the Sixers' future salaries if they'd make the Dallas trade (I wouldn't), don't forget Dampier is owed $13 million in 2010-11. I have the Sixers at $50 million next year, not counting the draft pick and minimum salaries to round out the roster. Also, I was told the Sixers are looking for basketball talent and not expiring contracts, so a second year of Dampier and even Beabois (why would the Sixers want another young point guard?) doesn't make sense.

In addition, Young will have an extension with a significant raise by 2011, unless he's traded.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 5 at 10:54
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Why wouldn't you make a trade that sheds you of the 'worst' contract in basetkball.

And Dampier is only owed 13 million dollars if he meets certain incentives in terms of minutes/games played this year that it's universally accepted in NBA circles that he won't meet. For all intesnts and purposes Dampier is an expiring contract (and so is Howard since he has a team option for next year). So no - Dampiers 2010/11 contract number isnt' that relevant cause the sixers will be able to waive him after the season ends and owe him nothing, or like the mavs fans wanted - use him to facilitate a sign and trade (and the sixers have more 'assets' to add into a DUST trade than the Mavs actually). Dampiers 2010/11 salary shouldn't be a hold up in the deal unless Stefanski is dumber than I thought.

it doesn't make sense NOT do dump brands contract because he doesn't fit this roster in terms of career arc (even if you keep Iguodala) and he hamstrings the franchise that isn't willing to pay the luxury tax right now.

And if Thaddeus Young continues to play at the 2009/10 level - he may WANT a significant raise but he won't deserve it

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Tom Moore reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 10:57
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While always willing to pay the luxury tax, would Mark Cuban be willing to take on those two massive contracts? That's $108 million beyond this season -- believe it's too much even for Cuban.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 5 at 11:00
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Yeah, well I don't because I think first and foremost marc cuban wants to WIN an NBA title...if he thinks it will help him win the title, I thinkn he'll go over.

Cuban got Yahoo to give him TWO BILLION dollars for broadcast.com - he's a smart business man and he knows that if you win people show up. He's the kind of owner I wish the sixers would find, not a bottom line answerable to stockholders ownership (I think corporate ownership shouldn't be allowed in professional sports and I'm pretty sure the best run league, the NFL, agrees with me)

If Marc Cuban believed that obtaining Iguodala and Brand would bring them a title, with a certainty, I believe he'd make the move today.

Iguodala and Dalembert is a better on the court move for them in my opinion - I don't think Brand works with Nowitzki as well as Sam would.

That's the spot that I keep getting hung up on. I don't doubt that he'd make the investment if he thought it guaranteed him a championship, but if he makes this deal, he's got a huge hole at center, and he's committing to playing Brand and Nowitzki up front. I don't think that puts them over the top.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:05
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You're right, wwhich is why i think sam/andre is better for the mavs..., but marcus camby might start floating around...

Dallas is really out of chips if they make a deal for Brand and Iguodala, unless they're willing to trade Terry.

Dampier's contract only vests if he reaches minute/game totals this season, which I don't think he's going to make. The best I can come up with is that he has to play 2,100 minutes this season for next year to be guaranteed. If it is not guaranteed, there is no buyout. Right now he's at 968 minutes, so I think it's pretty likely that his contract will come off the books this summer.

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Tom Moore reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 10:59
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Was under the impressions Dampier's numbers weren't as high.

Dealing for Stoudemire and then hoping he walks away may save us money, but it's no way to tank. Salary dumps are supposed to make you a worse team.

This would make us a worse team, but probably not bad enough to guarantee a top-five pick over the next two seasons, which I guess should be the goal if you're blowing it up.

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Statman reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:16
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Again, Hollinger (within the ESPN trade machine) predicts that the Suns trade would make the Sixers worse, at -8 wins (Suns would improve by +5 wins). Then again, I'm pretty sure Hollinger's statistics don't take player mannerisms or ugliness of jump shot into account ...

By the way, the Suns' blogger on TrueHoop likes the trade, outdated though it may be.

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JohnEMagee reply to Statman on Feb 5 at 11:18
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I've been perusing the suns sbnation blog (brightsideofthesun.com) and it's sort of split there, though many of them don't like any suns deal because it doesn't 'replace' amare.

A lot of them feel sam just duplicates lopez (which I don't know if he does or not)

Though as a whole, they are more appreciative of the non points per game aspect of Iguodalas game

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:56
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The goal should be the #2 or 3 pick this year. Well that and getting enough lottery balls to have at least a shot at winning the #1 pick and Wall. Stoudemire would keep us from that, Josh Howard definitely wouldn't.

Derrick Favors is going to save the franchise.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 12:11
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Oh, probably not, but if we are dealing Iguodala we shouldn't bring in guys who can actually play. And you never know, maybe someone gives him Turner for Favors. Or take Favors over Turner. In a league where people have taken Olowokandi #1, Bogut over Paul, Darko over Carmelo and Wade, Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy, it's very possible.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 12:15
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If you're trading Iguodala (and Brand) you're starting over and you need young assets with upside to try and build towards a championship, the higher the pick the better the options

Hey Derek - is Demarcus Cousins a PF?

I don't see any reason he can't defend both positions. He reminds me a lot of Sheed from a physical/size/length standpoint.

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 5 at 12:28
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So if the sixers trade Brand and Iguodala he becomes a more 'useful' draft pick in the top 5 assuming his 'mental' issues can be dealt with since there's a spot for him...if they got cousins and speights learned to defend that could be a pretty fearsome frontcourt

pretty big "if," at least for speights

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JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 10:58
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The Memphis grizzlies want bench depth for a playoff run.

Lou Wiliams gives them bench depth :)

So does Rodney Carney (i think they have a few first round picks thi year and some cap space left)

Just saying...if you're shredding, shred as much as you can

Personally, there are two contracts I'd be happy for the Sixers to shed, Brand and Lou, that's it.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:03
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You can't shed brand without shedding iguodala - sorry

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JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 11:12
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sn't it a god damn shame, that if Iggy had learned a jump-shot,
a bit of class, and stepped into a leadership role (a role that CAN
be taught).

Ah, quotes like this, they make me psyched to be a sixer fan.

Someone on realgm came up with a deal that gives the mavs all 3 of the problem contracts and returns only one long term deal (matt carrol at 4 mil per year)

Was kind of funny

What team identity do we want? If we want to be a defensively solid team, and you give up your two better defenders, you've lost identity. If you dont have identity, you don't have a plan on who you'd like to take back. We can't just collect chips to collect chips because then your other assets become devalued with lack of team chemistry, etc.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Feb 5 at 11:35
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They currently have no single identity, they have a roster of mis matched parts, they're capped out and taxed out and have a bad coach.

This is a team trying to go in many directions at once so it's not going in any of them...i'm not sure what sort of identity you expect them to have but right now they don't have one in my opinion nor do they have the assets to fully achieve one.

In my mind, they have two assets that I'd hold onto for dear life. Iguodala and Jrue. That's it. With those two guys, you have an excellent start on a defensive identity. Everyone else is expendable.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 11:40
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Well I'd keep speights as well just on pure potential.

Unfrotunately, since many of those other assets are 'toxic' right now, you can't get rid of them without including an iguodala (expecially the big ones, Brand and Dalembert)

If I were stefanski and brand and iguodala were already gone, i'd be begging Sacramento to take Sam off my hands for spare parts, find a team that needs a bench player (Lou) for a shorter deal and or a low first round pick (or early second round pick)...seriously, once you trade Iguodala and Brand you should blow the WHOLE damn thing up.

And no I don't think Stefanski is the guy to do the job, I just think he is the guy comcast will let do the job.

I absolutely love ESPN's rumor mill. Totally worth the $40/year or whatever I pay for insider access. Check out this gem:

UPDATE: As we told you this morning, Sixers GM Ron Stefanski said this about Iguodala: "Do we want to trade Andre Iguodala? No. But will we talk if people want to talk about him? Sure."

That Ron Stefanski is sure a slippery guy.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 13:04
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From Brians favorite source

dallas deal was barea, howard,dampier,gooden for iguodala,brand,green
that was a pure salary dump type trade. they arent sure they want brand and we arent sure we want to do a deal that doesnt give us a young piece.....

Day late and a dollar short w/ his "inside" info. As usual.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 13:15
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If you say so

Of course - this isn't when he had the information it's just when he posted it :)

His source told me this is on the table.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 5 at 13:21
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jkay reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 13:54
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lol

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eric reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 14:00
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i don't know... we would lose our three point specialist

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JohnEMagee reply to eric on Feb 5 at 14:01
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All you gotta do is sign Kyle Korver to the MLE this off season

done and done

I don't want Beasley. No thanks.

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Mike P. on Feb 5 at 18:12
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No one is going to mention the irony that the suns could have just drafted Iggy like 5 years ago?

The Dallas trade is a no brain. I know you guys want the team to be competitive and all that, but they are never going to win a title with Iggy and Brand. It's that simple. We signed two second bananas to first banana contracts. Did I say Brand and Iggy are bad? No, Iggy plays very well, but is just not a superstar.

Dallas can make that trade and contend because they Dirk, who is a superstar and can carry his team. As a Dirk fan I'd love to see that trade happen just to see Iggy run the court with him and smile.

Do that Dallas trade, blow the team up, and build through the Draft. Make DiLeo Gm and have McKie coach for the rest of the year. That is what needs to happen. I'm tired of watching a mediocre personalityless team go .500 over and over again and get more personalityless draft picks.

At least Reggie "Avon Barksdale/Black Shrek" Evans was funny and tried hard.

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JohnEMagee reply to Mike P. on Feb 5 at 18:25
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Which first banana in the nba makes 14 million dollars (and isn't about to get a20 million dollar contract in this off season)

I'm just curios to see all those '14 million dollar' first bananas

Amare Stoudemire isn't a first banana either

He makes 17 million

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Mike P reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 5 at 19:30
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Yeah but Amare Stoudemire is garbage.

Look, we all know Iggy's contract isn't THAT horrible, but for THIS team, it is.

Yeah, we can compare him to other players who get paid the same amount to argue why Iggy shouldn't leave, but that is going to get us nowhere. Just like what keeping Iggy and Brand will do to us in the long run.

I'd rather have a chance to get great young talent in the next four years and build around that then be where we are with the 01 all stars, Iggy's prime being wasted, and a bunch of no D young players.

Keep Jrue, get rid of everyone else (coach and GM too) for cap room and picks and start the hell over.

And to counter your argument, Deron Williams. FACE!

PS - Kevin Durant is even better then Deron and makes about 11 million less.

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kremilin on Feb 7 at 22:02
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Suns take up-close look at Iguodala
February, 7, 2010 Feb 74:59PM ETEmail Print Share By Marc Stein

Are the Suns inching closer to a trade with Philadelphia headlined by Amare Stoudemire and Andre Iguodala?

Separate sources close to both teams caution that it’s too soon to answer that question affirmatively.

One source with knowledge of the Suns’ thinking, in particular, insisted that Phoenix was still evaluating several potential trade candidates.

However . . .

You can safely say that the Suns have ramped up their evaluation of Iguodala, whom they’ve liked dating to the 2004 draft when Iguodala turned pro after two years at Arizona.

We know that because the Suns quietly dispatched one of their lead decision-makers – senior vice president of basketball operations David Griffin – to New Orleans on Friday night to watch the Sixers play the Hornets in person.

As discussed in the Weekend Dime, Phoenix has made it known that – in spite of its longstanding aversion to taking on long-term money – it has serious interest in Iguodala (even with four seasons left on his contract after this season worth $56 million) and would also be willing to acquire Samuel Dalembert (due to earn $12.2 million next season) to clinch the deal.

The Suns, though, would undoubtedly want Philly to take back Jason Richardson in such a swap. Even though the Sixers would have to surrender another player to make the salary-cap math work, such as Jason Kapono or Willie Green, they wouldn’t realize any significant savings in this trade configuration until the 2011-2012 season if Stoudemire follows through on this week’s suggestion that he will not become a free agent at season’s end and plays out his contract at $17.7 million in 2010-11.

You can also expect Philly, if these talks go any further, to insist on Leandro Barbosa instead of Richardson to make it a simpler two-for-two trade: Stoudemire and Barbosa for Iguodala and Dalembert.

Phoenix, furthermore, appears to be the team driving these discussions anyway. The Suns, by all accounts, like the idea of trading for Iguodala more than the Sixers like the thought of gambling on Stoudemire, who remains an undeniable force offensively but comes with that well-chronicled injury history in addition to the opt-out conundrum.

The optimistic view in the desert goes so far as to suggest that Dalembert – shopped by Philly without success going back to last season – would be better than ever playing alongside Steve Nash, not only because Dalembert holds a Canadian passport but because Nash brings the best out of mobile centers.

Yet we should also pass along the warning that came from one front-office executive whose team has expressed its interest in Stoudemire. The exec believes that the Suns could well choose not to move Amare before the Feb. 18 trading deadline if they start playing well again … and Phoenix just went 4-0 on a four-game road trip during which Amare averaged nearly 28 points and 12 boards.


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