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Do I Want Larry Brown Back?

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JohnEMagee on Feb 11 at 12:25
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I have no desire to let that megalomaniacal shiczoid rat back near the organization...they avoided armageddon last time he was 'associated' with the sixers, hope this turns out to be what most stuff written by NBA beat writers is, nonsense.

I figured you wouldn't want him back. Put it this way, though.

You have two choices, Ed and Eddie for the remainder of Jordan's contract, or Larry Brown for three years. Which would you take?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 12:35
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As someone once referred to a Frank Rizzo / Wilson B Goode mayoral election in Philadelpia, that's the evil of two lessers.

If that's the only choice - to me - it's 6 1/2 dozen of the other - who rightly gives a shit, neither choice will turn towards building a championship contender and the rat is only around until the next 'better' situation comes around.

Let's say the sixers DO hire larry brown, and then by some miracle the clippers add Lebron and some solid pieces in the off sesaon and sniff around brown as head coach you don't think he'd jump ship regardless of how long he's been on board?

Brown cares about Brown and nothing else...his legacy, his whatever, that's why he's back, and he wants weak GMs so he can push them around even though the only time he won a title was a roster built by someone else who REFUSED to acede to his mercurial shiczophrenic roster choices.

The Sheed move actually seemed like something LB would do. And the Darko draft pick as well, doesn't Dumars blame Brown for that?

LB wanted Carmelo in that draft.

Even if "the rat" left after 1 year I'd take it, simply for what he could do to Thad and Jrue's development.

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 11 at 12:40
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That presumes he wouldn't take charge and trade thad and jrue (and speights) away for 'his kind of guys' - mediocre players who help in the short term but hamstring a franchise in the long term

Thad I could see being moved, not Jrue though. No way, not by a guy who values defense like LB does.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 12:48
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Well who he values changes on a weekly basis - so you can't guarantee that

TO me, he's a guy who values experience and getting to the playoffs sooner than later...and if he could find a taker for Jrue (he would) that returns a more experienced but less talented player - he would

You mean like he did with Prince, a second year player when he arrived in Detroit?

"the rat" definitely has his kind of players. During his run here we really didn't have all that much turnover.

I mean, we have our boob of a GM about to trade our best player to save his job. I can't imagine it being all that much worse.

Who did Brown trade away that you really regretted ?

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 11 at 12:55
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He had a strong GM in Detroit - who knos what he would have done if Dumars had given him carte blanche.

I think we can stop talking about Dumars in glowing terms at this point. He's right up there with the worst GMs in the league after the events of the past two seasons.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 13:00
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I think we can stop putting words into my mouth

I said nothing about Dumars NOW - i said it then - he was a gm who wouldn't bend to browns whims which led the coach to be job searching openly DURING their second playoff run

Where did I say that I even think Dumars is a GOOD GM, what I said was that he stood up to Brown and wouldn't let his schizoid player preferences run his roster.

Please don't turn into a second Derek

Cute.

Never miss an opportunity to take a jab.

At no point did I put words in your mouth. I simply made a statement.

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Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 11 at 13:08
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Who did Brown trade away that you really regretted?

This is also a good point. During Brown's tenure as a Sixer coach, they got the better of almost every trade; it was the drafting that was suspect. My recollection of the major trades during Brown's tenure:
- Stackhouse for McKie and Ratliff
- Tim Thomas for Tyrone Hill
- Hughes for Kukoc
- Ratliff/Kukoc/Mohammed for Mutombo
- Tyrone Hill and Jumaine Jones for Harpring
- Lynch for Coleman
- Claxton for Salmons
- Mutombo for Van Horn and MacCulloch
- 1st rounder for Kenny Thomas (only really bad one)

The last few were kind of a wash (though they helped to form the decent 02-03 team), but the first few were the ones that built the 00-01 team.

The major blunder for Brown as Sixers' GM was selecting Larry Hughes over Paul Pierce.

Don't forget the first rounder for Moiso. Ouch.

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Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 11 at 14:42
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Don't forget the first rounder for Moiso. Ouch.

I didn't even know that. Pretty bad considering Moiso never played a second for the Sixers -- although he was part of the package, with Lynch, that brought Derrick Coleman for 02-03, along with another first rounder.

As far as I can tell, those two first rounders turned out to be Dahntay Jones and Jiri Welsch, so no big loss. The first rounder traded for Kenny Thomas sticks out in my mind because it turned out to be the pick just before Danny Granger.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 12:39
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I don't believe Dumars gave Brown the control he wanted which is why he was actively prusuing jobs during his second year there DURING the playoffs....think about that for a minute - a guy so obsessed with himself and contro that a new job is something he'll focus on finding while his team is in the playoffs...

He may provide short term 'modicums' of success - but he won't help this team turn in to a real title contender and he'll raid the cupboard so it's more empty than the barest cupboard when he leaves

If Larry Brown makes Iverson the focal point of the offence again, at least the Sixers have the defensive personel to make it work...

Holiday/Iverson/Iggy/Brand/Dalembert

Larry Brown can even sign Mardy Collins to be his sixth man in the off season since he was is very similar to Aaron Mckie...

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JohnEMagee reply to Cheyne on Feb 11 at 12:31
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If Iverson is part of the roster next year the sixers should just give up

It's not 2001 any more

I don't think Brown would go back down that road, and I don't think Iverson has enough left in the tank to handle that role anymore either.

Good point about Brown's deficiencies as a personnel guy. Do you think he would accept coming here without having GM powers? What about Brown as coach and DiLeo as GM?

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JohnEMagee reply to Statman on Feb 11 at 12:41
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Brown would shred an inexperienced GM like DiLeo (and I'm not sure why people aren't just happy with Dileo as head of scouting/drafting where he seems to excel)...

I could live with Brown/DiLeo. I could live with Brown doing everything, to be honest. I could live with Charlie Brown coming in to coach this team at this point. I firmly believe Jordan is the worst coach I've ever seen.

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khouse reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 13:32
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Eddie Jordan is...by far...the absolute worst coach in the league given the talent he has to work with! Again...the supposed "NBA Mind" who can't comprehend the individual strengths that each player possesses & how to maximize them effectively! Likewise...then there's Stefanski who most of us were under the assumption, knew basketball but instead, placates us with words (...I'm not happy...blah...blah) instead of taking action! On that note...has anyone thought that maybe this game was intentionally thrown? I mean...if ES has plans to trade players/other moves...he couldn't really do it given our win streak huh? However unlikely perhaps...but it would explain EJ's bizarre abandonment of a previously successful game-plan. Not to mention his first "my bad" mea culpa after a loss this season!

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AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 11 at 13:06
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it was larry brown's 'gentlemens agreement' with Larry Hughes that made us pass on Paul Pierce. F that guy. if you cant be flexible enough to grab a 'cant miss' that falls from the projected #2 or 3, i dont want anything to do with you. passed on dirk, but that is just hindsight to blame LB for that. Paul Pierce was a no brainer.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 11 at 13:19
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I believe Brown is also the one who pushed charlotte to draft Augustin over someone else GM/Ownership wanted (Lopez?) and now would like Charlotte to trade augustin to obtain said player they could have drafted

And if I"m TOny DiLeo i tell them - i will not listen to brown if he wants to tell me who to draft - once is enough - it was a disaster

I would love to see Tony DiLeo as GM and Brown as coach.It would be perfect.

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JohnEMagee reply to Levent on Feb 11 at 14:09
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I'm trying to figure out DiLeo as GM as perfect, there's no resume to indicate he can do what a GM does

Is there a reason that indicates he can't do what a GM does?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 15:03
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Nope, but I've seen no indication that he's qualified to be a GM, and people keep saying he'd make a good one, he's not even an assistant GM...he's very good at what he does for the sixers...it's a strength for the sixers, moving him away form it strikes me as a bad idea because for all appearances he has no even assistant GM experience AND you're weakening what's already a strength.

Billy King
Ed Stefanski
Tony DiLeo

That's a strong toika of GM experience....maybe try and IMPROVE upon the last hire and not just go for who won't cost that much?

Hasn't he effectively been the assistant GM for years now?

I'm not arguing that he should take over, I'm not even sure I know how I feel about it, but to me this isn't much different from saying Thibideau is a really good defensive assistant, so he should just stick to being that and let's bring in a coach who has head coaching experience. DiLeo's a guy who has been in a front office for a long time and done a really good job, I wouldn't have a problem with him getting his shot as the head guy.

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deepsixersuede on Feb 11 at 15:35
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According to D.Lynum, A.I. probably won!t be back after the allstar break; she was on Missanelli this afternoon. If true that is good news for Jrue.

Won't be back as in will retire?

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deepsixersuede on Feb 11 at 15:38
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Yes. Seems he feels he untarnished his rep and is not happy either with how he is playing or how the team is doing.

heh. "I'd rather not play at all than play for Eddie Jordan."

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JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on Feb 11 at 16:02
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Wonder how happy he is that they 'seem' to be playing better without him

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deepsixersuede on Feb 11 at 16:07
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Does a Stefanski/ Brown tandem work?

Not sure how well Stefanski would stand up to Brown. I get the feeling that he likes to be able to tell his coaches "Do this" and that simply wouldn't fly with LB. If anything, it would be LB saying "Do this." And in the past if LB has a GM who he doesn't respect, and simply won't do what he wants, well just look at his time with the Knicks.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 16:57
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I agree with your take but wonder if they could have the same mindset, as far as goals for the team. Before this coaching hire it seemed to me our g.m. stressed the defensive end of the floor. Maybe L.B. asks Snider to bring back B.King, insert cringe !!!

I'd do anything to get a defensive minded coach for our squad. Especially a good one, which Larry Brown is. Just the idea of him coaching Jrue instead of Eddie Jordan is awesome.

As far his abilities as a possible GM are concerned, my only worry would be based on his history with leaving teams quickly without finishing the job he started. I'd be ok with him having more say then a typical coach, but I don't know how happy I'd be about turning everything over to him.

He could have more say in terms of trades, but I would want DiLeo to be given more power and the final say on draft picks (I'm assuming Stefanski is gone).

A defensive minded coach, wow that would be awesome.

Why would Larry Brown want to leave the Charlotte situation?

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Rich reply to Shawn on Feb 11 at 21:32
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Because he's Larry Brown. He does a nice job (usually) for a few years and then jumps ship for a change of scenery. This is what he does. He gets bored with his current situation, which he can't make any better, which is usually his own doing with short-term, win-now guys.

Charlotte is in the middle of an ownership change, and if a hands-off Michael (who conducts his business on the golf course), LB is out too. He's probably sick of it too. I thought he was going to settle into the front office/advisory role he had here, he seemed to like being able to go to Nova and just come when he pleased. That's why he's Larry Brown though, he can't stay still.

According to Marc Stein, Iverson is out of the All Star Game.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 17:24
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So is Kobe

Lots of drop outs this year

Just for the record, Tony Dileo has been assistant GM/Senior Vice President since 2003(with the exception, I assume, of when he was made head coach).

http://www.nba.com/sixers/front_office/tony_dileo.html

Its hard to evaluate him from the outside. Was he an advocate of bringing Eddie Jordan in, or did he argue against it? Did he think giving Green a 6 year deal was a good idea?

For what is it worth, I agree with Brian, ABOTEJ (anybody other than Eddie Jordan).

Personally, if we switched EJ for Brown, that would be wonderful. Tend to agree that all negative above is valid but would like to see what he could do w/ this same lineup. EJ has messed us up so much, we need some leadership with a brain on this team!

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JohnEMagee on Feb 11 at 17:52
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I wonder what the clamor level for Brown would be like if the sixers currently had a halfway decent coach and fans weren't just hungry for 'anyone but' to be coaching this team

Probably depends on who the coach is and how the team is performing. I can't say LB is really my first choice, I'm pretty much of the mind that anyone besides Jordan would be a giant leap in the right direction.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 18:05
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If a coach had them playing to your pre-season expectations (whatever they were) i guess is the thing.

I don't think anyone expected the sixers to be this bad

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Duracorr reply to Brian on Feb 11 at 20:03
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Larry Brown would be my first choice. He is a championship-level coach, the only one now active who might want to come to Philadelphia. I believe he could have won 50 games with this roster. LB seems to have only one absolute - defense. Beyond that, he does what anygreat coach does - uses the players he has to accomplish the most possible. I think he'd love Rodney Carney and find a way to use Lou, Thad and Speights.

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Tom Moore on Feb 11 at 18:15
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Sixers just confirmed that Iverson (personal reasons) isn't going to the all-star game. He'll be replaced by David Lee.

I say bring Larry Brown back. He won't be here for long anyway, and he'll emphasize defense enough for the young guys to realize they should actually play it in the NBA.

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Tom Moore on Feb 11 at 18:45
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I asked Stefanski about the possibility of Iverson retiring. "He hasn't told us anything," Stefanski said.

Stefanski can't get to the all-star game because his flight was cancelled here and it's snowing there, too.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 11 at 19:23
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It would be hysterical if Stefanski missed this weekend chance to meet with all the GMs and players in this whole trade bonanaza

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bebopdeluxe on Feb 11 at 23:19
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I think that it is ridiculous to think that LB would come in and trade, say, Thad for some 31-year-old glue guy.

I mean - this franchise is about ready to trade away Andre Iguodala for a bag of nuts, and you want to rip LB because he might make some changes to the roster?

Would he trade Speights? Maybe...but I would wait to see what he gets first before I would bury him there.

Personally, I think this team - assuming that DiLeo can work his magic one more time this summer - has more talent (WAY more talent) than it did during his first go-around here. Also, don't forget that LB was also the guy who traded a visible young player with potential (Jerry Stackhouse) for a couple of guys who were languishing on Detroit's bench...

How did that one work out?

Bottom line, I really think this team is not that far away from being a pretty good team....whether it is getting lucky again this summer or pulling the trigger on moving one piece (Speights or Thad) to get the perimeter scorer this team needs - I think it is worth taking a shot (before we blow it up) to bring a guy like LB in to see if he can make it work.

LB loves Iguodala. He will LOVE Jrue. Sammy can be his Theo. Brand is the kind of grind-it-out vet that you guys say LB always trades for. Thad can reach his potential as a true all-around player under Brown's tutelage. Speights can either tighten up or be the chip that gets moved.

The second move that I make is make ESnow his #1 assistant and heir apparent. Give LB a 3-year deal (which roughly corresponds to Iggy's and EB's contracts), and then hand the reins to Snow after that.

Sign me up.

NOW

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JohnEMagee on Feb 11 at 23:38
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I mean - this franchise is about ready to trade away Andre Iguodala for a bag of nuts

If the sixers were just willing to give him away - he'd probably be gone already - according to most reports - the sixers have turned away deals for Iguodala.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 12 at 11:29
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From the Racine Journal

* It’s been reported Charlotte coach Larry Brown wouldn’t mind coaching the 76ers next season. I’m hearing Brown wouldn’t be opposed to coaching the Los Angeles Clippers, either


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