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I Don't Have Words

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JohnEMagee on Feb 16 at 21:40
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There's definitely some sort of boris and natasha joke about moose and squirrel in that look stefanski has - it's definitely b-movie villian

How did Lou not make the cut?

Did his defense save him from partial culpability?....

All of a sudden its been almost 10 years since the finals team. Almost 10 fucking years of mediocrity and wasting away. A good season or two mixed in maybe. Some bright moments. But mostly mediocrity and now we've fallen off the cliff. The most painful part is - its like the sixers don't matter anymore. You don't ever hear us mentioned in the mainstream at all. This is a storied franchise we are talking about. Not some bargain basement expansion team. Its embarrassing and sad, really. Nothing else to say.

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johnrosz on Feb 16 at 21:56
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Guys, lets not be too hostile. There's still plenty to be hopeful for. EJ has had those braces for a while, I'm sure theyll be coming off before the end of the season. I for one am excited to see that million dollar smile

Wonder if the team was upset that EJ wasn't canned during the allstar break and this was their statement game.

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johnrosz on Feb 16 at 22:19
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I'm going to get killed for this, but when are we going to acknowledge that Elton Brand is now an average player at best? Sure wish there was a refund on that Philly Max...

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Tom Moore on Feb 16 at 22:25
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Jordan: "It was a “classic butt-kicking. It was probably our first one of the year here."

In fact, the Celtics beat the Sixers by 31 at the Wachovia Center on Nov. 3 after leading by as many as 34.

More Jordan: "Every team is going to go through it. It was our time tonight."

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 16 at 22:26
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Seriously - could someone please ask Mr Stefanski how he can justify this guy still being employed...I'm curios as to how he avoids "Well we offered him a lot of money, coaching contracts are guaranteed and we're still paying Mo"

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Tom Moore on Feb 16 at 22:29
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Liked this from Miami coach Erik Spoelstra: "It seemed like they were off tonight," referring to Sixers.

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johnrosz reply to Tom Moore on Feb 16 at 22:53
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Great quote. I'll put that up there with when Flip Saunders called Eddie's Wizards teams the worst defensive teams in the league over the past 5 years.

Get tired of people acting like this team is the worst Sixers' team in creation. It isn't. Far from it actually.

If this team had a competent coach from the get go and used his players properly, they would be mearly what they have been the last 2 years - a below average offense team that plays enough defense to win around 40 games. Not great by any stretch but usually enough to get them in the 1st round in the mediocre Eastern Conference.

Problem with the Sixers though is one that about a dozen teams have have - one or two bad contracts and stuck in a position where they can't grab a top 2-3 lottery pick or draw a premier FA who really is a difference maker even if they clear out enough salary cap.

Jordan does need to take some criticism if this teams only winds up winning 30 games (which they are on track to) and fails to really develop any of their younger talent. Stefanski too. This is really his mess now and he can't hind behind King's contract ineptitude after this season. This is really his team with the exception of Dalembert and Green.

I am wrong for saying this but I was glad when Green limped off the court. People despise Green in Philly for his deficiencies (e.g., outside shot, etc). The thing that has always frustrated me with him is his general demeanor & decision-making on the floor. Whether it is heaving up a dumb shoot or deciding not to fight his way through a screen/pick, I always kind of wondered if Green really that foolish of a player or if at times he just isn't a bit apathetic too. Dalembert drives me nuts for some of the same reasons too but Green makes as many questionable decisions on the court.

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johnrosz reply to MG77 on Feb 16 at 22:39
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If you really hate WG you should be disappointed with the injury, he probably will no longer be used to match salaries in any potential deadline deal if he is injured

I was at the game tonight. Our awesome coach called timeouts twice when the game was getting out of hand. Smart move, yes. BUT, THIS IDIOT DID NOTHING TO CHANGE THE LINEUP AFTER THE TIME OUT!!!

I am sick and tired of this incompentent coach. I do not believe this team is that bad IF WE HAD A COACH. Yes, just a coach.

We have become the laughing stock of Philly in just a few months since this clown has been hired. Please, for the health of your fans, fire, terminate, this coach. Ed Stefanski, if EJ was your friend, he would quit tonight so you can keep your job.

Just to clarify, we were only 2 points behind after an horrible 1st period (when genius put the scrubs in).

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JohnEMagee on Feb 16 at 23:06
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Not sure where else to put this - but i'm fascinated and it gives something else to think about.

Knicks are rumored to be working on a deal involving T-Mac to shed Jeffries - Mannix says it's down to 'pick protection' basically.

Curry
Galinari
Chandler
Douglass

That’s it – that’s the players the knicks have under contract for next year IF they complete all rumored deals.

Assume Curry is useless….they have THREE players – for a minimum of 12

Why would any big name sign with a team with so many questions?

Money

Package deal with another big name (LeBron+Bosh/Amare/Wade/JJ and use bird rights to resign Lee for example - I imagine the Knicks have no problem paying the Luxury tax)

New York City

Face of a storied franchise and bringing it back to relevance

I think they all might play into the reasoning if something were to go down.

They're going to have to renounce Lee to be able to sign 2 max deals, losing their bird rights.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 19:16
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If they get t-mac do they have to renounce lee?


Even if they do - they don't have to renounce him until they come to an agreement with someone

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Tyrone Hill reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 18:54
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Thats sick. Curry is a team option, so if they dont pick up the option and let get rid of Jeffries contract they will only have a 9mill payroll next year. Thats almost 40 mill in capspace

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JohnEMagee reply to Tyrone Hill on Feb 17 at 19:04
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Curry is a player option - if curry had a team option for next year - the knicks could move him in a heart beat.

He has a player option for over 10 mil - anyone think he ain't picking it up?

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MylesKong on Feb 16 at 23:12
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Note to Stefanski:
Tonight we have witnessed what a superstar can do. Please do whatever it takes to acquire such a player. It's not to late to start now.

I thought we were going to be the next "Pistons" and win sans superstar?

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ItAintEZ reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 4:33
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No, thats next year when LB takes over as coach.

Haha, I enjoyed this more than I should have.

Told you guys we should go for the Beas. Look at what he did to us because we spurned him.

Yes he only scored 12 points, but he used his Beasley mojo and curse the team.

Even if the Knicks don't sign anyone, they are in great position to finally start over after having the roster be in such bad shape for so long. Sure they lose their draft pick this year, but they will have everything finally cleared next year. D'antoni and Walsh will have a clean slate to construct a team as they see fit.

First game all year I didn't stick around to watch the full thing. Maybe I'll fire up the DVR and watch the remaining quarter + in the next few days if I get bored.

Ditto. I am really upset that I did not, however. They had a loud Fire Eddie chant around the 3 minute mark in the 4th period.

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Tom Moore reply to DeanH on Feb 16 at 23:47
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Started with a few people across the court from the Heat bench. They continued, then a group not far from the Miami bench chimed in. Grew pretty loud late in the game.

Maybe Friday we should try to get the chant going in the first half ?

(Not you Tom, I mean we as in fans :) )

Sure, when do you want to start? Do you want to text?

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Tom Moore reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 17 at 0:17
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Could help you to feel better about yourself if it's a bad day (knowing somebody else is worse off) ...

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Tom Moore on Feb 16 at 23:43
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If Kapono, who's shooting 38 percent from 3-point land, can't get off the bench with the Heat going heavily to a zone defense, when will he play?

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johnrosz reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 0:00
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Tom, do they ever attempt to run anything that looks like the Princeton offense in practice anymore? I'd like to hear Jordan talk a bit about why he thinks it failed and whether or not he will take the blame for it. Seems like a distant memory now, but since it was his main selling point as a coach, and it completely FAILED, just can't grasp why the guy is still running the show...

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Tom Moore reply to johnrosz on Feb 17 at 0:09
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Jordan said they had to scrap it when Iverson got here because it's tough to pick up right away, but they had pretty much stopped with the Princeton before Iverson arrived. The only back-door layups I've seen in months are by Sixers' opponents (the Bulls, the Heat had one Tuesday, etc.).

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 0:16
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See - Iverson provides built in excuse

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johnrosz reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 0:25
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With the Sixers "defense" I've also seen a lot of front door layups. Sigh...what a disaster.

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Tom Moore reply to johnrosz on Feb 17 at 0:27
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No question.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 16 at 23:51
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Brian was correct

If the heat scored 0 points in the 4th quarter - they would have won by one point

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eddies' heady's on Feb 17 at 0:02
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Is Iguodala bitching at Snider and smacking Jordan in the eye at the same time?...

While Sam is whispering in Snider's ear, (in full Haitian accent) "..you didn't go live TV on tonight and say any us are getting traded?"...

While EB is curiously looking to his left, back to the West coast saying, "This is just like the fucking Clippers!"...

While Thad is concentrating on the rim saying, "Why in the hell won't you let me make a layup or a bunnie. Just one, just one"...

While Stefanski is gathering his thoughts saying, "Wait a minute, I've seen this before....it reminds me of something. It's eerily reminiscent of the dang mortgage bubble. Except in that one I made out like a bandit and in this one I AM the damn bandit!"...

(AI was purposely left out here, the man deserves no jokes at this moment)

I was at the game tonight. Elton had 0 in the first half and AI9 scored 0 in the second half. Thad's TWO missed dunks was the low point of my Thad watching days. Just a horrible all around game. Still somewhat a game at the half DWade came in and did what superstars do. Scored in a flurry and put it out of reach while Iguadola dissapeared. The last gripe I have was that down by 30 (30!) In the fourth Jrue sat on the bench till about 4 and a half minutes left. Really EJ? Hit the bricks my friend. Had there not been the mass exodus of fans towards the end the "fire eddie" chant would have been deafaning with probably a 66% capacity crowd. Turn it around. With all this talk of a lockout and possibly losing teams I don't want to have to watch a 76ers gate documentary.


More Jordan: "Every team is going to go through it. It was our time tonight."

This is a common theme for Jordan. I remember after our first loss of the season to the Magic, he said the were just hot. On another occasion he blamed us getting killed from 3 point land was some bad luck(he said something about guys who don't normally shoot the 3 well shooting it well against us-- CAUSE THEY WERE WIDE OPEN). It seems like he figures out a way to rationalize everything into not being his fault.

I'll have the rotation chart sometime Wednesday, probably in the PM. Just a disgusting, disgusting loss. The type of game that could wake Snider up from his coma to do something (whether that something helps or hurts is anyone's guess).

I might even go to the game on Friday if there is gonna be some sort of coordinated "Fire Eddie Jordan!" chant going down. I want in on that...

I was at the heat game and was in on the fire Eddie chant. Then of course when it started to get loud they played music over the fans.

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bdownbear reply to Pkel on Feb 17 at 8:03
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I guess Eds back up plan worked. ..............
BRING BACK CROCE AND MIX............AND FIRE THE EDzzzzz.. After hearing all these trade rumors and then finding out that Ed would rather stay put....I just lost complete confidence in Stefanski.

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Shane reply to Pkel on Feb 17 at 9:56
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I was also at the game. I heard two Fire Eddie chants and both times they were stamped out by music pretty quickly. One in the third almost instantly. I had just enough time to recognize what they were saying. And then the fourth that got pretty loud.

I DVR'd the 4th qtr, put it on after AI(American Idol- family time), Saw they were down 30 and went to view the BLOG instead of watching the rest of the horror. I'm dissapointed to have missed the Fire EJ chants. Maybe, when the Sixers make appropriate change(s), I'll skip family time and watch the entire game. Just can't watch entire games when I'm rooting for a loss.

I'd love to go back to the summer when there was an air of optimism about the team. Jordan brought a glimmer of hope that maybe we could be a team that ran good offensive sets and he talked a decent game. Stefanski was still in good graces because his moves still looked good on paper but were just unrealized on the court because of some injuries (Brand) and youth. Just to have the hope that our leadership actually had a clue and was building something competitive would be an amazing feeling.

Does anyone else feel like they're reliving the mid-90's Phillies in the form of our current Sixers organization? Hopefully they can make the same turnaround the Phils made.

One question to ponder: When can we say we've hit rock bottom and how far away from it are we?

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Shawn reply to ryano on Feb 17 at 9:55
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Still room for rockbottom. Next year they could be even worse if they get rid of Dalembert / Ig. Lockout looming, this is a strange time.

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Tom Moore reply to Shawn on Feb 17 at 10:03
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I thought there was much more optimism going into 2008-09, but most folks picked the Sixers to win 36-42 games (think I went with 36) this season.

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ryano reply to ryano on Feb 17 at 10:27
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Maybe a better question is: what does rock bottom look like? Maybe this?

Two years from now, Eddie Jordan still coaching. Lou Williams running point, Willie signed to an extension and backing up Gilbert Arenas who signed with us because he knew Jordan would let him get away with anything and give him all the shots he wants. Peja Stojakovic playing SF. Thad starting at PF, broken of any inclination to attack the rim and without motivation or a clue of how to defend any player in the league. Brand backing up Thad for 16 mil. Mehmet Okur "spreading the floor and making teams pay...while leading us uptown."

That looks like the crap shoot Jordan could potentially lead us to. If we get there...I think that's rock bottom. Because with that line-up I think Jordan may actually want out and leave US.

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Mike P. reply to ryano on Feb 17 at 10:32
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I dunno, that team would be fun to watch just for the hilarity of it all.

No D all THREE!: The Eddie Jordan Story.

Top lottery picks and payroll flexibility are a teams chief weapons against sustained mediocrity. The sixers have neither.

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Charlie Ace on Feb 17 at 10:46
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I've been watching pro basketball for almost half a century and I know a decent team when I see one. This is a good team. It is being held back by its coach. I don't know what Jordan's agenda is, but it's not winning. And the players have no confidence in him, no respect for him at all - it's obvious. For that reason alone, he should be fired. Stefanski is being irresponsible by keeping him on the bench because of their personal relationship.

Honestly, the only players I'm disappointed in are Lou & Kapono - everybody else is doing what they can. Carney, Smith and Jrue can't help it if they're not playing (unless they're really not bringing it in practice, which I doubt). The veterans are disgusted and frustrated - they're only human. I keep hoping that Brand will call up Stefanski and ask for a private meeting so he can unload on Jordan. And what's DiLeo thinking? Does he have any power?

I believe Peter Luukko is running the show. Snider is the principal owner but Luukko is calling the shots. He is the one that fired King and hired Stefanski.

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Shawn reply to Charlie Ace on Feb 17 at 11:06
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I wish Elton Brand would do his best kareem abdul jabaar impression and start draining sky hooks, but it aint gonna happen. Nor will any of these private meetings.

This is a simple situation, one we're all privy to. No direction form the top, Stefanski trying to keep his job by not unloading salary and keeping this unfortunate team and eddie jordan refusing to develop young talent nor playing winning basketball. Get used to it, Eddie Jordan may leave, but another scrub coach will come by. Don't be optimistic until you see evidence that Stefanski can make good personnel decisions on a consistent basis.

Stefanski lost pretty much all credibility with the EJ signing. We're locked into 3-4 years of an old elton brand, an overmatched iguodala, 4 years of a career 6th man in lou will, 4 years of a career 6th man in thad, an underdeveloped PF who has crazy eyes, and a rookie point guard who looks extremely sad all the time.

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Shawn reply to Shawn on Feb 17 at 11:08
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sorry, maybe 2-3 years of mr. thad

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 10:53
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According to a source with first-hand knowledge of the situation, the Houston Rockets were willing to trade McGrady and rookie guard-forward Chase Budinger for Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert. In fact, the Rockets wanted to do this deal. The money works and the Rockets were willing to take on Iguodala's $56 million remaining contract and Dalembert's $12 million next year.

Kate Fagan

Yeah, I saw that last night. Of course the Rockets wanted to do the deal, look at the garbage they're rumored to be getting from the Knicks/Bulls for McGrady. I'm not sure why people sound so astonished that teams would gladly trade an expiring contract and a borderline NBA player for our best player and the #4 per-minute rebounder in the game, #2 shot blocker, behind only Dwight Howard (trailing Howard by 30 blocks, having played 500 fewer minutes).

The shocking thing is that people seem to think it's such a good idea to trade both of those guys away for nothing.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 11:07
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The sixers have had Sam Dalembert on the market for over a year and no one wants him - while some fans may be bedazzled by his recent play, GMs probably remember the entirety of his career, and thus the sixers have been unable to move him.

Capped out, poorly constructed roster, fear of luxury tax, godawful coach.

The shocking thing to me is that people seem to think the sixers should get more than what's out there...they have one good asset they are trying to pair with one of two bad assets - cause really sam has little to no value until next years trade deadline really because of that god damn trade kicker making him earn more money - and somehow they think the sixers should do better than the offers made public that are available to them.

Sam being an excellent rebounder and shot blocker isn't a new development. Nor is Sam being a durable big man, which is extremely rare in this league. You can keep talking about how bad he is and how bad his contract is, but the fact of the matter is that he helps you on the court, pretty much always has. He's got the same stigma Iguodala does, he doesn't do it in a pretty fashion, he doesn't score a ton of points, so he sucks.

This talk of moving Iguodala with Sam for an expiring contract is idiotic. Plain and simple. It accomplishes absolutely nothing if Brand and Lou are still on the roster.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 11:29
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All those nice things about Sam Dalembert that you just said.

So why haven't the sixers been able to trade him in over a year since he's reportedly been on the makret (according to the sixers themselves)

Sam Dalembert - oh boy - he's probably around league average (http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHI13.HTM) - you value defense - but you seem to think half a player is a good player - sams half a player just like speights is - he's just much more expensive and has a stupid contract.

CONTRACT MATTERS
PERCEIVED VALUE MATTERS

Ignoring the realities of the situation means you won't be happy with anything the sixers do....ignoring the realities of how your team does business means you'll tend to have unrealistic expectations of what they're going to do - it's living in a fantasy world.

Sam has little to no trade value - because of his kicker probably more than anything - until it's at it's minimu - which is a year from now...if the sixers want to shed him sooner they have to provide a team incentive to take him. The sixers really only have one 'incentive player' and that players value is dropped when you pair him with a contract that teams don't want....you seem to think it's all about basketball, and that's a foolish way to think about it because it's not all about basketball...it's like people looking at the clippers trade yesterday and examining it from a basketball point of view, the clippers owner doesn't give a crap about basketball point of view - he cares about the 3+ million that goes into his coffers instead of to players.

Whether you want to believe it or not, Sam has little trade value, Elton has close to none, and the incentive to take either of them is Andre Iguodala which depresses his value as opposed to trading him alone.

Ed Stefanski isn't going to be fired any time soon
and if Joran hasn't been fired yet -it's doubtful he will be either

And both those decisions might have more to do with saving money than building a winning basketball team - and that sucks - but that's how the sixers are operating

You're really having a hard time with comprehension recently. I don't care about his perceived value. I don't care that the Sixers haven't been able to move him for the past year. My point is that there's no reason to move him. There's no reason to sweeten the pot with your best player simply to get out of the last season of Dalembert's contract. It's moronic. This team isn't going to be a player in free agency this summer unless they move all three of Brand, Dalembert and Iguodala. They aren't going to have enough money in 2011 to get a player of Iguodala's caliber unless they move Brand and Iguodala before then.

Trading Iguodala and Dalembert is like having gangrene on your left arm and amputating your right arm to cure it.

And if we're talking about perceived value, Sixers fans seem to be the only ones who perceive Iguodala and Dalembert as having none. Phoenix and Houston certainly want them.

Moving Iguodala simply because he's the only one you can move doesn't make it smart. It makes a move for the sake of making a move only, consequences be damned. And "getting rid of sam's contract" is an asinine reason to trade Iguodala at this juncture.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 11:42
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swap brand in that deal instead of iguodala and im doing that in a heartbeat. brand and sam for mcgrady

Haha, you're kidding right?

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Shawn on Feb 17 at 12:38
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why am i kidding? sam stinks and brand is way overpaid. some changes need to be made. something of this core needs to be ripped apart. i think the best thing is to build around iguodala and pretend Brand never happened. Iguodala can be successful if we put better pieces around him - a great shooter/scorer and better-value PF. i like brand but not at $17mm. wouldnt you rather build around Iguodala than Brand? Iguodala is young and brand is injury prone and past his prime.


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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 17 at 12:42
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So dalembert stinks and so does brand

so why would the rockets do such a deal?

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 13:07
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im sure they would not.

I don't want that deal either (I won't even repeat my typical rant.)

The problem is, its hard to even know what to want. Its pretty clear what we won't get:

-We are not going to see Brand moved yet because it is supposed to be impossible.

-We likely won't see EJ fired until the end of the year for financial reasons.

-We won't hear from any of the 3 Ed's an admission that the franchise is fundamentally broken (can't spend all your cap on Brand/Iguodala and contend the "Piston way."

-We won't hear an acknowledgment that short term wins/playoffs are no longer the top priority.


So what do we want? I think most people want things blown up at some point, but how? I guess I'd like to see a new GM to start, but beyond that there probably is no available deadline trade that I'd be happy with.

Word, bro.

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Shawn reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 11:09
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I want to see the Sixers version...

So I will give you our best player Iguodala and our best defender Dalembert... what elde do I need to give you? Zumoff... the Liberty Bell... Mayor Goode... the Eagles?

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Shawn reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 11:28
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Do you know who I am? I am the wizard Morey.

OK, you can have Halladay, that's enough right?

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Shawn reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 12:52
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You should be thanking me profusely for getting these awful players off your hand. and zumoff. and the liberty bell. bow to me.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 11:31
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"I'll give you the contract I've been trying to trade for a year that no one in the league wants"

Ignoring the financial aspect of players and the financial needs of each team is a ridiculous way to look at things.

If the sixers motivation is to avoid the 2011 luxury tax as many think it is - then other teams know it as well as the fans do and of course they're going to lowball the sixers - and they're going to KEEP low ballign the sixers until next February - and if the sixers are STILL over the tax line - oh boy are they going to get violated....making people LONG for the trade offers they are getting right now.

I love how you have a direct line into the front office. Mind asking them when they're going to fire Stefanski and Jordan next time you guys have a chat?

They didn't re-sign Andre Miller for too much money/too many years. They didn't use their MLE on middling talent this past summer. Those are the two things they've done, period. They did make a trade to take on an extra $1.5M in salary in June, which you conveniently ignore whenever you decide to go down this path of faulty logic, but whatever.

In your mind, and your mind only, the Sixers are so afraid of the luxury tax they're going to get bent over some time between now and next February, so they better trade their best player now.

Completely ignore the fact they handed out almost $200M in contracts 18 months ago and talk about how cheap these owners are. Makes perfect sense.

They are not cheap. They are pretty typical.

They will spend up to the tax but only go over if they have a contender that sells out the arena. Only a few owners routinely go ever the tax even when they have a non-contender.

They had between the 4th and 8th biggest payroll for most of the AI era.

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Mike P. reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 12:29
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Cheap and Dumb are very different things.

Lots of owners aren't cheap.

Lots of them are obviously dumb because of allthe horrible contracts around the league.

Three of them on our own team.

We just have two options, each of them involves the team not winning a title. Blow it up and start over. (not happening) or stick with our guns and continue to tread water.

Even with a "real" coach, this team isn't a winning a title.

I agree with your point that ownership certainly seemed willing to give Stefanski enough checkbook to sign Brand, Iguodala and Williams - this is irrefutable fact.

What I don't understand, however, is how money DOES seem to be playing a role in the decision-making around the head coach. While I am sure that Stefanski liked the comfort of hiring a guy who he knew (and a guy that he knew would let Stefanski call the shots), I have to believe that the subsidy from the Wiz was a major factor in the hire as well (given that the Sixers are still paying Cheeks this season). I also believe that one of the key reasons why EFJ is still coaching this team is that he is still owed $8 mil for the next two seasons (and if they blow up this team before tomorrow afternoon, you can be asured that EFJ will be back next season as well).

Given the fact that virtually every rational observer of this team believes that EFJ has been an absolute disaster, the fact that he is still coaching this team can only be linked to MONEY...right? And if the ownership of this team really cared about trying to right the ship, then before they make decisions on players (that have both talent and financial repurcussions), why not just fire Jordan? Take the financial hit - there are no tax implications...no complex salary-matching parameters...

Fire the coach.

Stefanski won't do it, because it will probably be the last straw for him as well. This is a call for Snider to make - and it is a call that would have happened TWENTY FUCKING GAMES AGO if it was his beloved Flyers (the man takes ZERO shit wihen it comes to THAT organ-I-zation). But he allows this cancerous tumor to grow and fester...corrupting the players and fans alike...taking the franchise to levels of irrelevence even below the subterranian levels of years past.

The sheer amount of 2-for-1 and discount promotions that the Sixers are resorting to right now are pathetic and utterly embarassing (I am waiting for the Wendy's "buy a Extra Value Meal and get a lower-level seat for free" promotion to be rolled out any day). It is time for Ed Snider to salvage whatever remaining dignity he has here...sack up...and clean fucking house.

Any shot of that?

Nope.

Why?

Because we still owe Eddie Jordan $8 million after this season...and Stefanski doesn't have the cojones to do the right thing.

I honestly have no idea why he hasn't been fired yet. Could be Stefanski can't fire him and keep his own job. Could be Snider said he won't pay three coaches (Jordan, Cheeks + replacement) for a 30-win season. Could be Stefanski likes Jordan too much. Whatever the reason, it's ridiculous.

I wrote about this extensively a little while ago, but if Jordan was chosen because he was the cheapest option with HC experience, that's just stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does...

Sammy is playing much better basketball this year. Using thoughts on trading him last year verses this year is like trading Elton now verses trading him on his last year of his contract. Last year Sammy was living up to his "Dumb" name, this year he is playing decent basketball. Comparing Apples with oranges.

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Cheesesteak on Feb 17 at 12:43
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Okayy. LETS WAIT THIS SEASON OUT.. SAY WE GET LIKE THE 4TH OR 5TH PICK.. TRADE OUR PICK.. AND ....SAYYY IGGY.... OR INSTEAD ONE OF THE YOUNG PGS(LWILL OR JHOL) AND DALEM EXPIRING CONTRACT OR SOMETHING.. FOR THE NO.1 DRAFT PICK... YAYYY... JOHN WALL..HE WILL BE THE SUPERSTAR WE CAN BUILD AROUND.. I SAY WE SHOULD DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO DO THIS.. THE PLAYER WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR SINCE IVERSON 96... JOHN WALL = 2010 VERSION ALLEN IVERSON..WITH BETTER D LOL CUZ HE'S 6'4"

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ryano reply to Cheesesteak on Feb 17 at 12:49
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Nobody's giving up John Wall.

Lou, Smith and Willie all missing practice today. Ankle, ankle, shoulder in that order.

I guess Lou tweaked his ankle late in the fourth, that's the reason Jordan finally put Jrue back in the game.

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Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 13:00
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Smith out for Friday and Saturday, while Williams and Green are listed as day to day.

Curtain is open at practice.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 13:23
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Excellent opportunity to easily insert Iverson back into the starting line up

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhk5fbx

I think I'd do it, and I'd think they'd do it.

Anybody?

how do you view beasley? Is he going to be the piece you build around, or are you going to let him walk after next season?

Problem here is you're still building around Brand, though trading Lou and Iguodala makes more sense than trading Sam and Iguodala, IMO. At least you're getting rid of Lou's deal.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 13:27
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Realistically, it's not building around Brand, it's getting even younger to build after Brand.

I think if you're going to get rid of Iguodala, you have to move a bad contract, Sam doesn't count to me. He is playing well and next year he'll have maybe enough value to either a) fetch a good player from a bad team trying to shed salary or b) If Brand is still playing moderately well, convince a fringe contender to take him. Or possibly, you resign him for a much better figure, because I love what positives he can bring to a team. So next is Brand, which isn't going to happen, and next is Lou, who while playing okay is a great bench player on a good team, and nothing else.

I like Beasley. He has some personality issues, but he's young so as he ages you would expect his maturity to rise as well as his game, and he's already a solid NBA player at 21. He's versatile and puts up solid numbers for the minutes he is given. I think he could maybe be a solid number 1 option, scoring wise anyway. he at least would generate some buzz around here, because for some reason these fans love shitty personalities.

I like Dragic, he's young has decent size, can shoot, and play off ball even though he's a "PG", and I would only do it if PHX would part with him. Evry time I watch a PHX game I'm impressed with his energy and decision making.

That to me, gets people out of the way for Jrue, brings in talent to POSSIBLY build around, brings in a "2" that can shoot, and softens the cap restraints. All very very desirable things for this team.

I'm the same as you, I really admire Iguodala, love his game, and would like him to stay, but its starting to look like he's going to have to be the option to move going forward. This team has to try something, we are just treading water. If it means they fail again, so be it.

I really hope they're shopping Lou hard. Getting him out of here for a contract that expires after next season would be a positive move, imo.

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Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 13:15
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With pretty low impact. you still have to replace his scoring, even though we all hate him. you leave yourself open to an even worse contract when the contrac tyou get back expires. who would you sign that would be a better 6th man than lou?

Ryan's trade's main problem is that we get much worse as beasley / thad are now imperfect 3/4s. and still have brand on the books. then you're not 1 piece away anymore. you're 2 - 4 pieces away cause you got rid of iguodala and lou.

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Ryan F reply to Shawn on Feb 17 at 13:43
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My next move would be try to move Thad for a more traditional player. I don't like his game and haven't since he's been here. I don't think he'll develope much more than he already has and I think the best move would be to trade him while other teams are still impressed. Possibly package him with Sam next year to bring in some talent.

Eddie House, Flip Murray, Shannon Brown, Jamal Crawford. There are plenty of guys out there who can give you offense off the bench who you won't have to lock down on super long contracts. Lou doesn't make an insane amount of money, but he's also a guy who you can replace at that dollar figure for his role pretty easily.

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Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 13:22
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(with only 1-2 piece flexibility when you dont get rid of brand)

One idea that I have heard put out there (with little, if any, media substance) would be trading Iguodala to Portland for Rudy, Pryzbilla and something else (either a player like Batum or a pick). Now this would be a deal that would make sense to me...salary relief, a potential starting PG and another asset (player or pick) for the future.

The thing About Beasley is he is only 21. So, by the time Elton Brand is an expiring contract, he will only be 24. I haven't watched enough of Beasely nor do I know enough about his mental/personal issues to know if its a good idea to get him, but having Brand here isn't that much of a deterrent to bringing him in. The other issues are what i would focus on in making the decision.

Beasley isn't cheap now, and he's actually going to get expensive before his rookie contract is up, unless you decide to cut him.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 14:49
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But unless he has a "breakout" year next year, you're not going to have to give him anything near a "max" contract and probably end up with a good production/dollar value. Then if he gets better and you have him wrapped up for 5 years cheapish, you have a quality 2nd tier player with more wiggle around him financially.

You don't really have much time to make up your mind, though. He's making $4.9M next season, and I believe you have to pick up his option for the following season ($6.2M) very early. Then if you don't make a qualifying offer the following summer ($8.17M) I believe you lose his bird rights and you can't go over the cap to re-sign him.

So essentially you're basing the $6.2M decision on whatever you see of him for the rest of this season and then you either find a taker to trade him or you let him walk, having paid him $11M over 2 seasons.

Personally, I'd be fine with all of that if I thought he was a building block, but I just don't. He's soft, doesn't really have a position, he seems like a gunner to me, he doesn't defend and that's just on court stuff, the off court stuff is just a nightmare.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 15:32
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I still think he's a better building block than any of Hickson,Green, Budinger though, don't you?

Well, being the best of a bad bunch isn't much a distinction :)

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Jesse reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 17:53
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I like Beasley. He was a beast in college, he's improved from his rookie season, he's a multi-dimensional offense player, and he's only 21. Seems like he's worked out his off-the-court issues too. Is he as good as Iguodala? Not even close. Will he be in 4 years? Quite possibly.

Besides firing Jordan, I would love to see Lou shipped out around the league. As recently as a few Chad Ford rumors ago, he said that he still has value around the league. If we could get a decent expiring for Lou, that has to be done in a heartbeat. I think he can't be a part of a successful team playing anything more than a minimal role.

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The Greek reply to Rich on Feb 17 at 14:39
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I just read in the papers today that Stefanski would like to add a shooter, why not trade Lou for a shooter? And if we can't get a shooter I would take an expiring or even some of that soul glow gel that Michael Cage used to rock.

Mgeee, I am surprised that you havent defended Lou today...

I've been looking at contracts this afternoon to see if there was a deal that expired after next season we could reasonably swap Lou for. Sasha Vujacic is one. Vlad Rad is another. There are bigger deals we could make, obviously, but I think it would be very, very positive to make a move to get out of the final 3 years of Lou's contract, if you can get back a usable piece in the process, even better.

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CT reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 15:51
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Boy, I'd love to see either of those deals go down. In my mind, moving Lou should be a priority for Ed. It's obviously doable... there must be at least a few suitors out there. So, if it doesn't happen, which it probably won't, I'll be very disappointed.

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The Greek reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 19:24
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Brian I would love to get Vujanic back for Lou.

Mggee, I am ashamed that your don't remember defending Lou last week. Personally I think that Lou is a waste money but you fancy Sweet Lou, don't hide it John.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Feb 17 at 19:26
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Now i'm positive that you're rickypryor

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Feb 17 at 16:29
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Mgeee, I am surprised that you havent defended Lou today...

Cause I've long been known as a defender of Lou Willliams....this just clarifies that you don't read what anyone says.

In fact I remember trying to convince you Lou had decent potential as a lead guard.

I guess I was wrong on that one.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 16:42
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And early in the season, it looked like I was wrong - but now not so much.

I value Lou Williams as a sixth man off the bench when you need points (only) and very little else...I think having him AND willie green on your bench is kind of silly and almost redundant and would prefer lou OVER willie (cause I just hate willie that damn much)

But I can't ever remember defending Louis WIlliams.

In fact, I might have wanted the sixers to just let his ass walk two off seasons ago

Yeah, I was referring to 2-3 years ago. Back before he got many regular minutes and looked to be trying to learn to be a PG.

Then, about 2 years ago the team decided he should just focus on being a scorer. Maybe they saw that when he tries to create it limits his effectiveness since he lacks innate PG ability.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 16:50
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Does one usually start a player at point guard if they want him to be focused on being a scorer?

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Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 14:42
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Jordan said "I didn't even hear" fans chanting "Fire Eddie" in the fourth quarter. It grew pretty loud toward the end of the game.

I can't wait for the "What do the fans know?" comment from Jordan. You can just feel it coming.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 14:47
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Yes - ignoring the problem is the best way to go about it...sixer games are pretty empty - to not hear it he'd have to have been deaf?

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Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 14:52
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Asked if he has the players he needs to win 24 hours from the trade deadline, Jordan said, "We’re going to pretty much stand pat, from what I understand. That’s not for me to answer. That’s an Ed Stefanski question, not mine. I’ve said from the beginning, I’m coaching the team that’s in the locker room."

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 14:53
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A franchise with a GM and a Coach who don't talk about roster decisions is definitely headed for success

"We aren't going to do anything. Whoops, I'm not supposed to answer that."

I have a friend who is a Heat fan currently telling me that if the Heat trade for Amare they could somehow resign Amare and Wade to new contracts this summer and still have enough cap space to add another major piece, possibly with a max deal.

I responded that he is completely incorrect, but he claims that there is something about "Larry Bird rights" with how a team can resign FA's which makes it possible. Something about resigning a FA to the same team doesn't affect your cap the same way as it does if you were to sign an FA from another team.

Does anybody know whats up with these "Larry Bird rights?"

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JohnEMagee reply to scott on Feb 17 at 15:04
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You should read the Coon Faq

But as i understand it 'bird rights' mean that if a player of YOUR OWN that was under contract for a certain period of time (regardless of how long he was on your team) is a unrestricted free agent you can offer him a big base salary, larger percentage increases and ignore the salary cap in terms of going over it to offer him the new deal.

The team that obtains Amare Stoudemire via trade will have a leg up over any other team trying to sign him (if he opts out) because of the bird rights...bigger raises (percentages) and an extra year (6 versus 5) and salary cap can kind of be ignored in

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scott reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 15:11
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John, thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

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Shawn reply to scott on Feb 17 at 15:06
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the bird rights were invented so that teams could go over the salary cap to sign their own stars. So wade would qualify as someone who's registered enough years to have bird rights. So miami could theoretically sign up to the soft cap, and then sign wade to go into the luxury tax territory.

Yes, they can go up to the soft cap, but Wade and Amare's cap holds will eat up basically all of that available space up to the soft cap.

Yeah, he doesn't know what he's talking about. If you're already over the cap, you can use the bird exception to sign your player, but if you're under the cap, it counts against your cap space. Basically, players you have bird rights on still count against your cap number until they sign with another team, you rescind their rights, or you sign them, then they count against your cap at their new salary.

For example, if Amare and Wade both opted out of the final years of their contracts, Miami would have bird rights to re-sign each, but they would also have huge cap holds for each until one of the three resolutions took place (mentioned above).

So they'd have about $13M in actual salary on the books (in Beasley, James Jones, Cook, Chalmers, Anthony), but their cap number would be well over $50M in total, because Amare and Wade both have giant cap hold numbers.

You can read about it here.

Yes, you can sign both Amare and Wade using Bird rights... but both count as a cap hold, leaving them not even the MLE to use.

What they can do is re-sign Wade, drag their feet w/ Amare, knowing they hold the trump card of being able to offer him more years/money than anyone else, and still actively look to add LeBron or Bosh, if they land one of those guys, they can renounce Amare and free up the cap space to sign the other guy to a max deal.

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Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 15:17
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Then wade wonders if amare or lebron or bosh dont sign, he's then stuck on an awful team with no cap space, making his decision very difficult.

awful.

as a fan of the nba, i'm extremely excited to see what happens to the knicks, the bulls, and the heat.

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Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 15:10
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Yes, it's basically an unmitigated disaster for both Miami and the Knicks.

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scott reply to Shawn on Feb 17 at 15:14
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Wow. Lots of great info from everyone. Question answered.

Thank you.

This confirms my belief about Stefanski. he is committed (either by choice or necessity) to building upon the framework of this current team.

We need a new GM who believes the team needs a superstar to build around instead of the “Pistons way” of trying to contend around a number of good but no truly elite players.


"Stefanski isn’t a student at that school though. He’s received plenty of suggestions from friends, fans and the media on how to best “blow it up,” but has rejected them all... So the Sixers are a team looking to retool, rather than rebuild."

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 15:21
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The worst thing about a manager is not knowing what they don't know...it's a killer

In my mind, we need a new GM who will clear out this coach before we need one to decide between the current path and a new one.

Agree. New GM, then new coach... then work on the roster.

No urgency to give away Iguodala or even Dalambert or Lou. None of those players will have less value this summer or next year- if anything they will have more value.

It would be different if this was their l;ast, best shot at moving Brand. But that is not an option.

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johnrosz reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 15:29
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Nothing like trying to build a title contender after the one team in the last 2 decades that didn't have a superstar, great odds... Seriously, I knew it was a red flag when he became enamored by the Pistons after they smoked a bad Sixers squad.

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Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 15:16
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Iguodala, on if he feelz like he'll be here after tomorrow's trade deadline: "I don’t know that. I can’t answer that question. I’ll prepare like I will be. I got here (to practice) early, as usual, this morning – same routine."

Tom, good to see you are down with the new way of talking :)

Any NEWZ on the trade deadline?

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Tom Moore reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 15:51
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Ironically, it was a typo. But, hey, I'm hip to the jive ...

Hearing nothing is imminent. Understand Sixers talked to a few teams yesterday that seemed willing to imprve their previous offers. That's what it'll take for a major deal involving the Sixers.

Figured as much. And if that was an "Airplane" reference, then Roger that. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.

Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.

Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?

Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!

Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.

Tower voice: Over.

Captain Oveur: Roger.

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Tower voice: Roger, over!

.....

Also, about jive: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes?qt0484164

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Statman reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 15:51
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Tom, has Iguodala actually come out and said, "I'd prefer to stay in Philly?" I don't recall that he has, and I find the omission interesting.

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Rich reply to Statman on Feb 17 at 15:54
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No inside source here, but I don't think he would mind being traded. I think he originally liked the thought of being the man here, but he plays for an idiot coach, in an arena that's half-empty, for people who criticize and tell him what he isn't. I don't think he hates it here, but he already got paid, so moving to a contender and being the 2nd banana wouldn't be too bad for him. I don't blame him.

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Tom Moore reply to Rich on Feb 17 at 15:56
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Some wonder if Iguodala thought he was going to be moved and now thinks he'll stay. He hasn't really said what his preference would be.

Did you know that on Iguodala's twitter, his location says : "uptown, downtown, midtown"

that's great right?

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Tom Moore reply to Shawn on Feb 17 at 16:04
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He does some strange things, at times.

He didn't like Wednesday that Sixers PR director Mike Preston told him to take off his ski hat for interviews, even though it saved him a fine from the league.

Yes, the GM has to be the first one to go in my mind. He has to be tied to Jordan or he would have fired him by now. I really liked Stefanski, but the hiring of Jordan was indefensable. If he has free reign to try and adjust the roster to Jordan's tastes, then it will be harder for the new GM or coach to remake this mess.

My sense is that nothing is happening and that we'll all wish that something had happened when we get stuck with Cole Aldrich or Ed Davis.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 16:37
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If nothing happens and I wish something happened that'll be the same as last year, and the year before, and not this past draft but the draft before that.

My sense is that if something happens or something doesn't happen, Sixers fans will find a way to lament what could've been if it had only gone the other way.

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Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 16:33
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Just heard from Stefanski. He said the Sixers are "no closer" to a deal than they had been the day before. "We’re still working the phones."

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 16:40
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Don't suppose you could ask hi mpoint blank about the rumored rockets deal and why he turned it down?:)

He wants more than salary cap relief.

You'd probably get the same answer he's already given 20x in the past week.

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 17 at 16:46
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Just want to see him put on the spot about a specific deal - see if his spin fails him or something.

He keeps saying he wants more than salary cap relief - and while that may be true now - fast forward a year from now - when not making a deal guarantees a luxury tax payment - anyone think 'salary cap relief' will be a gift from heaven?

Maybe by then someone will trade for some and his marvelous kicker (which should be down to under a million dollars by next years trade deadline)

sixers fans all over the world -- gettin a little nippy

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 16:49
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"D'antoni wants house and Boston really wants Nate" - Wojo Twitter

Um, why?

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 17:19
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My buddy is a Celtics fan and he thinks Nate Robinson helps put them back in Finals contention. He's an idiot when it comes to sports, but I couldn't even believe that he would think Nate is the answer to his prayers.

I hate Eddie House, and I'd be kind of happy to see him miss out on the playoffs in NYC. Otherwise, the deal doesn't mean anything to me. Nate is garbage, House can shoot.

Trade Idea:

Lakers are looking for another guard...would you do Lou for vujajic and a first?

I don't think they'd throw in a first, nor would we really want it (late first rounders are basically guaranteed contracts for fringe players). I'd do it straight up, or with a 2nd rounder, not sure LAL would be willing to take back the extra years on Lou's deal, though.

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ItAintEZ on Feb 17 at 17:41
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Just watched DNL. It's no wonder this orginization feels no heat. The most coverage they get from the media is from a show that is on the network that owns the team and who's team corispondant is the daughter of an assistant coach.

Mike Mis is the only guy that I hear talk about the team on a regular basis. My head hurts from this team and it's lack of direction. Wish I could be like the majority of the "fans" and just pay attention when things are going good.

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JohnEMagee reply to ItAintEZ on Feb 17 at 17:42
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Mikey Miss is also an idiot :)

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ItAintEZ reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 17:51
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Your opinion, but he does seem to care about whats going on with sixers. It's one of the only talk shows that doesn't only talk about McNabb and pitchers and catchers reporting. Hell the other station employs ex football, baseball and hockey players and have at most 1 or 2 guys on whole station who even know a little bit about hoops.

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JohnEMagee reply to ItAintEZ on Feb 17 at 17:53
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He's also the only guy I ever heard who built an 'all time' team in every sport based on skin color...

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ItAintEZ reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 17:56
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Sounds like you listen to the "idiot" more than I do.

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JohnEMagee reply to ItAintEZ on Feb 17 at 18:00
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I listened to him once...that's what i heard...i realized he's targeting the eskin moron/closet racist demographic - and turned it off

When MM first came on, I really enjoyed listening to him. But, the more I listen to him, the less I am convinced he knows AND he does not research or try to understand. He still roasts the 76ers about EB or JJ signing, he loved AI coming back (when I asked him how it will hurt Jrue's growth, he just basically walked away from me) and in preseason, he didn't even watch a preseason Eagle game (hosting show next day he still had his opinions).

But, as you stated, he is the one who talks more basketball than any other host.

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johnrosz reply to DeanH on Feb 17 at 19:28
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why wouldn't he still roast the Sixers about the EB signing? I'd venture to guess aside from a stretch of 10 games in 2 seasons, Elton has been nothing short of a disaster

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 18:12
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Darko MIlicic for Brian Cardinal

Someone give me a reason why

Shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 18:31
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Actually, it reduces the knicks tax payment SLIGHTLY.

So the washington post is reporting that the cavs have gotten jamison.

If the suns really are motivated to get rid of amare - they are left with the heat or figuring out how to convince the sixers to trade their 'priamry' target in iguodala.

Could get interesting

Is PHO rumored to have any interest at all in Beasley?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 18:41
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Supposedly from what I've read is that Miami wants Amare more - but they have very little that the suns want (including Beasley) and we've been told the suns 'primary' target is Iguodala.

i gotta think that when team a really covets a player on team b and team b really covets a player on team c - team c is in the drivers seat isn't it - at least take the car for a test drive?

Yeah, they are, but say the Sixers ask for the moon, what is the moon where these two teams are concerned? If you get draft picks back, they aren't in the lottery. The young talent on each team pretty much amounts to Beasley and Earl Clark?

I don't know, maybe if a fourth team gets involved something that I consider valuable could come back to Philly, but a four-team deal just seems highly unlikely.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 19:14
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If the heat really want amare and the suns really want iguodala - then someone is taking elton brands deal or nothing gets done.

I know you want young talent back, but this team is fracked no matter what talent they get back as long as they have all the money tied up in 3 players.

I would give up iguodala to phoenix if it got rid of brand to miami or phoenix.

Iguodala and Brand go to phoenix
Amare goes to miami with richardson
JO (expiring) comes to philly

I'm just saying - the suns to me are in that corner where if they don't do something they'll get nothing for amare

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Tray reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 19:23
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Unfortunately (or fortunately if you're Brian), that's apparently not how Stefanski thinks.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 19:25
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I don't know that brians against it if it moves brand.

Flip sam to sacramento for flotsam and you've reset the roster

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Mike P. reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 19:28
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This would be spectacular. To get rid of our most ungetridable contract?

Even better if we got Beasley too.

Am I saying Beasley is a great piece for a championship team? No, not right now.

But two years out of Wade's shadow away from South Beach could do wonders for him.

I guess Amare isn't going to Cleveland now, so us helping the heat get Amare just got bumped up a few potential points.

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JohnEMagee reply to Mike P. on Feb 17 at 19:30
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It all depends on Steve Kerr's motivation.

The well is drying up for Amare
The extension talks are dead

If he opts out this off season and the suns get nothing for him - kerr looks horrible

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Tray reply to Mike P. on Feb 17 at 19:31
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Beasley will always have to be in somebody's shadow. At least on a good team he would. For instance, if we were lucky enough to draft Wall, he'd be in Wall's shadow. I don't like complementary players who can't play well unless they get out of someone's shadow.

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Mike P. reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 19:36
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I just that as in getting away from Wade would help him. Not that he needs to be the man.

Coming close to home and getting away from all that South Beach mess could do wonders for his psyche and maybe give him that "F*** the world" motivation.

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johnrosz reply to Mike P. on Feb 17 at 19:34
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I don't think anyone is willing to take Elton under any circumstances. He has the worst contract in the NBA right now, PHX is a fairly cheap franchise, i just don't see them taking on that much guaranteed money for the next few years. They'll more likely just take MIA best offer than going anywhere near the Philly Max

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Feb 17 at 19:37
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I don't think anyone is willing to take Elton under any circumstances. He has the worst contract in the NBA right now,

I think a guy suspended for the entire season who makes more than elton brand probably has a worse contract

I'm actually kind of tired of the 'worst contract in the league' meme - arenas contract is now on year longer than brands AND for more money

is it a good contract - no - but the 'worst int he league meme- has to stop - arenas contract is much worse for a guy at a much less hard position to fill

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 19:47
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They're both awful, team crippling contracts. If it really makes you feel better that we have the second,third,fourth worst contract in the league then okay i stand corrected. My point is that you aren't going to sell a single team in the NBA on Eltons contract at this juncture.

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terr reply to johnrosz on Feb 17 at 23:31
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what about rashard lewis?

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JohnEMagee reply to terr on Feb 17 at 23:35
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Rashard Lewis is over paid that's very true - but he's a bit more productive than Gilbert Arenas and possibly more productive than Brand (though Brand suffers from being on a poor roster for him with a shiz coach

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 18:42
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Ok...now smells fishy - from windhorst I do not have confirmation, working on it now. Post reports 3-team deal that would send Ilgauskas/pick to Wash. D. Gooden also involved.

CAN gooden be involved? Hasn't that window passed?

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Tom Moore reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 21:28
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Gooden can only be traded 1-for-1, I believe.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 21:29
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Gooden was traded to the Clippers by himself. I believe the rule is that HE can't be traded in combination with any players but multiple players could come back to the team?

The original announcement lacked the 3 way input of the clippers - it all makes sense now

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 18:44
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The Chicago Bulls held guard John Salmons out of Wednesday's game at New York in anticipation of a trade, sources said.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 18:49
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Windhorst

Trade is not finalized, but sources have said all parties have agreed in principle.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 18:52
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Yahoo Wojo

Cavs get Jamison and Telfair, Clippers get Drew Gooden and Wash gets Illgauskas, Al Thornton and Brian Skinner and Cavs 1st round pick.

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Tray reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 19:16
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Good news for fans of the NBA in my view, a LeBron-Kobe Finals looks more likely than ever. Should be fun to watch. Although I think at this point it's pretty honkingly obvious who the better player is.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 19:17
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To John HOllinger it is

The the 710espn.com audience (and hosts) it isn't

Why would the clippers get rid of Thorton?? He was only making 2mill and they gave him up for nothing.

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JohnEMagee reply to stan on Feb 17 at 19:40
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Same reason they traded one expiring contract for another

to save money

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stan reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 19:48
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This was the last year of his contract

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JohnEMagee reply to stan on Feb 17 at 19:56
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No - it wasn't

He's on the same rookie deal as Thaddeus Young - he was drafted the same year

next year he (and telfair) are on the hook for about 5.5 million - the clippers get gooden - buy him out at a discounted rate so he can go back to dallas - and they save money this year and next,

Seroiusly - most clipper moves are about saving dollars - they saved more money this year AND shed another 5.5 million in committment next year.

Sure they'll make a move every once in a while like B-Diddy or matching on brand - but in the end - if they aren't making the playoffs - Sterling only cares about profits - and he just saved another 5.5 million for next season

As a lifelong fan of the Sixers I have cared less and less over the last decade. There is no hope for this sad sack franchise. No draft pick to save them, no one to coach, manage or own them on a competent level. Its been this way for a decade. Ed Stefanski is the current franchise ruiner and before that it was Billy King. The Elton Brand signing set this franchise back by at least a few years and the hireing of Eddie Jordan a few years more. What can you say...If we move five years into the future I dont see a damn thing changing. Poor ownership, shit management = mediocre team.

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 21:23
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John Salmons to Milwaukee in a salary shedding move - kurt thomas and francisco elson?

The bucks WANTED John Salmons?

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Jason reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 21:32
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I kinda like the trade from their stand point, they aren't going to bea ble to make a run @ any FA's this year and are taking on a salary that expires next year along with Michael redd's 17 mill salary so they get something for nothing and it's not a long term commitment of taking on salmons money.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jason on Feb 17 at 21:40
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Hmm...that almost makes sense...if only the sixers had some contracts expiring next year they could have used to help Milwuakee out.

Yet again, John Salmons gets chosen over Willie Green by the smarter team :)

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 21:33
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stan reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 22:33
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Link doesnt work. what is the trade?

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 21:44
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So there's a rumor floating that the grizz were interested in ellis and willing to give up OJ Mayo in the deal...

Who likes Mayo here?

i haven't seen him play enough to know if he's good enough but he's young and an early pick so i imagine he's somewhat ok...why do that though the grizzlies would still be far away from contending

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JohnEMagee reply to Tyler on Feb 17 at 21:50
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The grizzlies are in the playoffs this year - I have no idea why they'd be interested in ellis for mayo - but Iguodala is a better PLAYER than Ellis :)

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 22:34
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Different type of player though, if they're looking at Ellis they want a high volume shooter at the guard spot. Iggy definitely won't fill that need but I agree that Iggy is a better all around player. Maybe we can get them to take Lou Williams off our hands for a bag of basketballs

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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 22:24
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Me, he is on my fantasy team and I have seen him play many games on the grizlies and also when he was on USC. Mayo will have a better career then Iggy In my opinion.

Well, Iguodala only averaged 7.5 shots/game over his first two seasons and had almost double the win shares Mayo is going to wind up with. Mayo's only statistical advantages over AI9 are the number of shots he put up, three-point percentage and free throw percentage. Here's the comp.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:22
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I think we'd all be satisfied if some kind of Iggy Mayo swap went down though...Mayo is a guy that could grow with thad and jrue. Not sure why Memphis is shopping Mayo in the first place, they're playing good basketball for the first time in a loooong time

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The Greek reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:24
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Thanks for the stats Brian, and in no way was I trying to disrespect Iggy by saying that I prefer Mayo over him but wouldn't a Jrue/Mayo backcourt be nasty?

That's some dreamy shit right there!!

i'd nab mayo in a minute. he seems like the player we would need. shoots the lights out, great distributor, pretty good defender. may tend to rely on his jumpshot a lot, but hey at least he has a jumpshot.

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Anonymous on Feb 17 at 22:09
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Does the below make any sense given: 1) PHX has to move Amare now or lose him for nothing this summer; 2)CLE is no longer an option for PHX; 3)PHX supposedly loves AI9. AI9 and EB for Amare and Barbarosa? Yes, its mostly a financial move, but removes the albatross contract. Would PHX take on EB's contract to get AI9?

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Jason reply to Anonymous on Feb 17 at 22:21
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Doubt they would, not sure EB fits in Phoenix's run and gun system and EB has a few years left.

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JohnEMagee reply to Anonymous on Feb 17 at 23:02
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Yes, it makes sense for the sixers and it's why is uggested a similar thing already.

It's only if Kerr is really backed into a corner. There's no guarantee that the suns don't re-sign Stoudemire - it's not looking good - and they're getting waxed tonight - but i doubt even kerr is that stupid.

Might he up his offer for iguodala and dalembert - sure - but what else do they have to offer?

OK, here's my four team offer.

Miami gets Amare and Jason Richardson from PHO.

Phoenix gets Iguodala and Brand from PHI.

Sacramento gets Beasley from Miami, Lou Williams and Sam Dalembert from Philly.

Philly gets Kevin Martin and Kenny Thomas from Sacto, Jermaine O'Neal from Miami.

Sixers are left with this roster for next season.

Jrue/Ivey
Martin/Willie
Thad/Kapono
Speights
Smith
1st round pick

and their cap number is $37M, so they have between $13 and $19M in cap space.

The following year they have these players under contract

Jrue
Martin
Thad (qualifying offer)
Speights
Smith (qualifying offer)
2010 1st rounder
2011 1st rounder

Assuming they don't use their cap space this summer they have $27M on the books. Even if they acquired a player in the $10M range, and factoring in cap holds for Thad and/or Smith, they could add another player in the same salary range the following summer.

That's a way to take advantage of both Miami and Phoenix's desperation (if it exists). You're making both teams do something they don't particularly want to do (MIA take Richardson, PHO take Brand) to get what they really want (PHO gets Iguodala, MIA gets Amare). You're giving Sacto two things, 1) Dalembert who they seem to want, 2) A palatable way to get rid of Kevin Martin and get a young "building block" in return in Beasley. Their long-term commitment is cut in half (lou's contract vs. martin's contract).

The Sixers reset the franchise, but this time they start with a guy who can really shoot and really score on a decent contract. Of course, you have to worry about him being able to stay on the floor, but if you're willing to trade away Iguodala and Dalembert durability doesn't really mean much to you anyway.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:33
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Wow - I would have just flipped Sam to Sacto for spare parts - you took it one step beyond...that's why you're the man in charge I guess.

I'd rather not have kevin martin - but I know you think the sixers have to get some immediate talent back...

Over under on games missed as a sixer would be set at 50%

My head hurts :)

Here's the link. The Sixers get 12 games worse, PHO gets 6 games better, Sacto and Miami lose a game or two.

Looks like the trade machine is broken atm, though. Saved link isn't working.

You can't really compare Washington to us, but I think it's sort of interesting that now that Washington's traded their whole starting rotation away and is forced to play its young guys, Andray Blatche went off for 33 and 13 tonight on 14-22 shooting, and Javale McGee had 14, 11 and 5 blocks.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 23:13
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Andray Blatche has had good games before

He's also had games where the coach wouldn't play him.

He's got talent - he lacks consistency (which is like the watchword for all the wizards guys)

They still are paying Arenas more than the sixers pay Brand, but they accepted their doom and conceded...the sixers haven't conceded yet so won't trade Iguodala for a package similar to what the wizards got for Jamison...even if it means getting rid of sam and or brand.

Maybe the wiz have a better GM?

The Wizards also traded away the #5 pick because they were sure they had the pieces to compete this season. I'm not giving them any votes of confidence.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:49
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He had some help by arenas being an idiot - but he realized his team - even with arenas - wasn't good enough to compete - so he started to dig his way out

Stefanski is still blinded enough to think that this team can somehow contend for something that matters

I'm kind of making my point for you, but if he had realized it last summer, or at least realized he needed to start looking to the future, he could have curry right now, or jennings, or anyone else picked below #5. Point being, he dug the whole, much, much deeper than it needed to be only 7 months ago.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 18 at 0:31
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And Isiah dug a hole so deep that no one thought they could get out of it in time.

If they get tyrus thomas and swing the mcgrady deal - the knicks will accomplish what everyone thought was impossible.

While idiot boy will continue to think he can tinker with this mismatched roster to build the Pistons model (I must have missed that quote cause i would have crucified him at the time - I can't believe the media didn't pick up on that and point out that more often than not the pistons model fails to win a title)

All the Knicks will have accomplished IF they pull off all these deals is to clear the cap space. They've done absolutely nothing with the draft picks they've actually kept (and they don't have this season's, and apparently they're going to swap next season's w/ HOU and give up another number one). If they don't wind up landing LeBron and either Bosh or Wade, they're just going to be a talent-less team with no picks for the next couple of season trying to win a championship with a team built around Joe Johnson and Amare.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 18 at 0:39
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Their goal was to clear enough cap space to make two max signings in the off season - to hope that the lure of leading the knicks back to prominence would be enough for two big names.

That was their goal.

Few thought they could clear enough cap room.

If they pull of the mcgrady deal (and add a young talent like thomas) they'll have achieved that goal...they had a goal they achieved it - do i think it'll work - i absolutely do not - but they've cleared cap space to be a significant player in 2010 which was what walsh was hired to do and many thought he couldn't.

I wish i had heard that Pistons comment at the time of the brand signing - because it would have saved me aggravation - since a GM who wants to build on the exception not the rule is a fool anyway and it would have saved me a lot of time thinking he had a clue.

The sixers goal is to 'win by the pistons model' - which worked only once...in the last 30 or so years...

That's not technically true. The Pistons model is really dominant defense and distributed offensive responsibility. That's how the Celtics won in 2007, that's how the Pistons won, that's how the bad boy Pistons won, there are a ton of examples. People hang their hat the nebulous superstar, but the Pistons weren't the first team to win with dominant defense and team offense. A lot of teams have won because their "superstars" took a step back to spread the scoring load out, which is essentially the same formula.

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Tray reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 23:44
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Yes, the Wizards have a better GM, that was the idea.

no offense but that was a pretty bad ms paint job :)

I'm offended, and I used Adobe Fireworks :)

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:47
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Oh come on - learn a little photoshop - it's not hard

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 23:22
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Where's my axis of evil cube?

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Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 23:44
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Hear there are some teams wary of Kevin Martin.

Your proposed deal, Brian, would clear a ton of cap space, but Stefanski insists that's not what he's going to do -- though he'll need to get rid of perhaps $5 million from next year's payroll to avoid the luxury tax in 2011.

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Feb 17 at 23:47
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See Stefanski's problem is that he doesn't realize how bad he messed up - so he can't admit his mistake - so he's going to keep trying.

The Wiz GM REALIZED how fracked his team was - and he just dug in to fix it.

Stefanski is in his own way - fire him

Yeah, I don't think it's something he'll do. I was just looking for a palatable deal that (for me, maybe) that would leverage two teams' desperation (MIA to get Amare, PHO to get rid of Amare and get Iguodala).

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 18 at 0:28
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I know it's not ideal for you brian - but the sixers have to do something - or they're just stuck in neutral no matter who the coach is - upside is 7/8 seed right now.

Andre/Dalembert to Pho
Amare/Jrich to Mia
J O'neal, beasley and one of dudley or lopez to PHI

THEN

FLIP O'neal to NY for a lesser deal than what the rockets are getting for T-Mac (but get jordan hill)

Hopefully that still keeps em under the luxury tax for next year but adds quite a bit of youth to a roster

Yes, brand isn't gone, but that's not going to happen - but something has to happen - this roster can not win

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JohnEMagee on Feb 17 at 23:54
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A now ironic quoted from Brian interviewing Stefanski 2 years ago:

"We are under the cap and our options are much, much more liberal than they would be if we were over the cap. We can use this money either to sign a free agent, or to trade, with a player or without a player, to another team in a situation where that team doesn't have to take money on. If you look around the league, there are always teams that are unhappy with what went on. They're spending a lot of money on their players, and you know, it's just not working so let's see if we can get rid of a guy or two. We'll be situated in the Summer so that if an opportunity like this arises, we can seize that opportunity. We feel that it's really important that with the team we have, it's crucial that we have this flexibility. We also got extra value in the future draft pick."

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jkay reply to tk76 on Feb 18 at 1:11
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TRULY IRONIC. TK. SO SAD.

They wound up trading that pick in the Carney deal (did it wind up being Ty Lawson? Might have. Or maybe it's this year's Utah pick).

This year's pick, FWIW.

Just funny to see Ed be so wise, and then find himself on the other end of it.

Yup. I'd love to buy the guy a beer and just be able to find out what his real thoughts on this mess are. No spin, no covering his ass, just seriously, what would does he think needs to be done if the only goal is to make this team a contender.


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