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On the Roller Coaster

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Duracorr on Feb 22 at 7:19
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I've loved the Sixers for over 40 years, but right now I'm trying not to care anymore. It's hard.

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deepsixersuede on Feb 22 at 7:48
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I haven!t posted much because the same issues continue to haunt this group; if our g.m. believes in our core than A.Miller should still be here, and Jrue couldv!e been brought along properly. From not playing to thrown to the wolves without a vet to learn from while Lawson has one of the best in front of him and is used situationally. I like Meeks but why limit your options with a 2nd rounder and more importantly , isn!t L.Will. our scoring 2 guard off the bench. I still think our G.M. plans on starting L.Will. next year at the s.g. spot.And the worst part we are getting in Sh. Wright territory; he was a 6th pick in a 5 player draft and there are about 10 solid players in this draft and we are teetering near the edge of that group also.

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The Greek reply to deepsixersuede on Feb 22 at 8:30
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Lou Williams, E.Jordan, Stefanski, Snider, Brands Contract, Speights lack of giving a shit. The problem is that we are saddled with a bunch of losers.

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The Greek on Feb 22 at 9:16
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I love it whenever I read...... Lou Williams was given the keys to the team after it was decided not to bring back Andre Miller.


Lou you drunk driving selfish little turd, you went and crashed the team bus you little prick.

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Jeff reply to The Greek on Feb 22 at 9:53
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I wouldn't say he crashed the bus, but he certainly failed his eye test and shouldn't have been given a license.

Metaphor Mondays!!!

Andre Miller was a great player.

Lou has stepped up big time this year and played some good basketball. He is having career years in eFG%, TS%, TO%, AST:TO.

I think people need to get off his back for not being a great player like Andre Miller was.

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JohnEMagee reply to Joe on Feb 22 at 10:29
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ANdre Miller was not nor was he ever a 'great' player...to call him that is to diminish every great player who ever played the game.

Lou Williams is a defensive liability and really all he can do is score - he's a 20 mpg sixth man when you need points (only, he can't defend worth shiza) - but he has no 3 point range.

He's slightly better than Willie Green in terms of scoring efficiency

Outside of that, he's pretty much just as fungible.

Andre Miller was a great player. He was a top 5-10 PG for quite a few years of his career. That qualifies as great for me. If that isn't great for you, ok.

Lou's defense isn't good or anything, but it isn't crippling.

After all is said and done, Lou is a good player, productive player. The numbers really do speak for themselves here.

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sfw reply to Joe on Feb 22 at 12:18
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Joe, Lou Williams is a horrible on the ball defender. Teams are intentionally running pick & roll on him when he's in the game. I personally viewed this against the TWolves. Every time they got a good offensive opportunity when they ran pick & roll with the player Lou was defending. His effort on 'D' is his main flaw as far as I'm concerned.

The offensive numbers speak for themselves this year, not so much last year.

Agreed on Miller being a top 5-10 PG for most of his career, don't think he's there anymore, though.

Portland had to get him off the floor last night after he got repeatedly abused on the defensive end in the second half. Portland blew a 25-point lead and wound up losing in overtime. I definitely don't miss his defense on the ball.

One thing we sometimes forget to mention is the lack of financial motivation for many of the players. Kaponos chillin, lou's chillin, brand's trying a little bit, thad believes he's done enough to get paid, but i dont know if he's chillin. willie green's paid, and knows he'll never get paid again - chillin. carney is sad.

strangest case so far though is speights. maybe he's just crazy though. he does have crazy eyes.

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The Greek reply to Shawn on Feb 22 at 9:35
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I'm done with that guy Speights, we need to trade him for a SG or Center. Lou also needs to go, I will even take back a box of shit for him.

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deepsixersuede reply to The Greek on Feb 22 at 9:52
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They keep putting guys in roles they aren!t meant for, I won!t put it all on the players, with the exception of Marreese. Lou [6th man], Thad [s.f.],Jrue [ come in behind a vet.] are all common sense things but Marreese should wake up and smell the coffee.His minutes are down and he doesn!t seem to care. I wonder if Tom sees enough of practice to see if he is going hard, like Jason seems to do. Spieghts is a major key to this core group ever becoming a contender, and that is scary.

I'm 100% on dealing Lou away.

I don't know what to think about either Thad or Speights. They're both bench players, for sure, and bench players can be somewhat one-dimensional and still contribute to their team's success. You just have to limit their minutes, play them at the "right time", and put them on the court with players who'll complement their game.

Jrue
Good SG
Iggy
Brand
Sammy

Could Thad and Marreese be suitable bench players with this starting lineup and a decent coach? That's a good question.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to CT on Feb 22 at 12:01
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i think everyone in Sixer Nation wants to trade Lou away. But what can we get for him ? no one has ever proposed a trade that might work. this deadline just showed us that you cant always get fair value or any value in return.

Below is Lou's remaining contract. Seems pretty steep for what he brings (or at least what he has brought to the Sixers). And the contract is a 3 year committment. A team is really going to have to believe that Lou will be much better in a different situation.

2010/11: $5,445,000,
2011/12: $5,917,500,
2012/13: $6,390,000

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 22 at 12:09
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Easy - cap space - the sixers will give someone a draft pick this summer to take lou's contract so they can get under the tax

I think there are teams that want Lou. We could easily get back an expiring for him.

I also expect Lou to opt out of his final year. He may not make as much, but guys will take a 1st year pay cut if they can sign a 5 year guaranteed deal- of course the new CBA could change things.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Feb 22 at 12:48
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Unless the contract taken back is much lower than lou's it doesn't help you get under the tax if it's expiring

The goal - getting under the expiring - is easy to meet this off season when all these teams with extra cap room miss out can absorb a contract without sending stuff bac k.

It's unfortunate these teams won't have cap space until after the draft. You may find a team willing to give up a pick for him after they miss out on landing LBJ/Wade/Bosh.

I just looked it up, and essentially to play the same role, Nate Robinson has better career numbers than Lou in every meaningful offensive category, save assists. Nate returned Eddie House's expiring contract, and he's going to be a free agent this summer, so it may be harder than I originally thought to move Lou, especially if there's a better option on the FA market who you may be able to get cheaper.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 13:24
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The problem with Lou is the years, but if you look at the deals a team like NO made this year where they traded a 2nd round pick they'll never give up (or vice versa) that's the kind of deal I see made.

However, since it's a multi year deal - if it's Lou - i expect a protected first round pick has to go with

If it's willie or kapono - then it's one of those moves similar to the moves made by various teams earlier this season

I think Kapono or Willie is more likely as a strict dump. If they move Lou, I think they get something in return. Not that it's likely, but I doubt Stefanski is going to give away a young guy he signed without getting something of some value in return.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 13:53
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If he can get value in return, I'm sure he will

I'm not sure he can

Lou's also never been flat out benched (dnp-cd) by his coach for en entire month immediately preceding his trade. That probably had a slight impact on his trade value.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 22 at 18:33
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so because the Sixers want to get under the cap, another team will take Lou? why does a team want Lou and 3years/$17mm?

He's saying the Sixers would have to include a draft pick of theirs in the deal to entice someone to take the remaining three years on his deal. If that's the case, I don't think they move him. If there's a market, which there has been according to rumors, then I'd move him for something of some kind of value.

I'm always shocked when I read about how teams want Lou. That contract looks bad to me, but maybe I'm in the minority.

He's probably the guy who has benefited the most from Jordan's system, followed by Willie. Offensively, he's definitely taken a giant leap forward this year. His offensive numbers are impressive in some areas, and they're important areas.

Whether these improvements are sustainable or not is another question. This is a guy who shot under 40% from the field last season and under 30% from three. He also led the team in FGA/36 minutes, FTA/36 minutes and usage %, and he led by a large margin in each category. His improvement can be traced to a couple factors, statistically:

1. He's taking fewer shots. Down to 13.2 FGA from 15.8 last season per 36 minutes.
2. He's taking fewer long jumpers, including threes. Down to 7.2 long jumpers from 8.9 last season, per 40 minutes.
3. He's finishing better, FG% inside 10 feet is up to 60% from 49% last season.
4. A drastic drop in usage percentage, from 27.7% to 21.4%. Meaning, he isn't hogging the ball as much as he used to.

The oddity is that he's going to the hole more frequently, and converting at a higher rate, but his free throw attempts have dropped precipitously, from 8.0/40 minutes to 4.8/40 minutes.

My problems with Lou come on the other side of the ball, but as a scorer, he is having a fine season. The level of production he's at right now is a sure positive, I just don't think the whole package is worth the money he's being paid. If there's an opportunity to move him in the offseason, I'd do it. Mainly because at this level of production he's basically a swapping buckets zero sum game, possibly trending a little toward the positive. If he reverts to how he shot last season, or even splits the difference, I think he's costing you being on the floor.

Looking at the numbers for shooting guards (because he really is not a point), you can get this level of offensive production for less or equal money without the defensive liability on the other end.

If the next coach can motivate Lou to play 'D', I would leave him in his current role and turn him loose. If not, outtahere.

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JohnEMagee reply to sfw on Feb 22 at 13:06
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WHy does a coach need to motivate lou to play D - this isn't new - this is Lou his entire career in the NBA

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johnrosz on Feb 22 at 14:46
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http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64937/20100222/sixers_consider_severing_ties_with_iverson/

I know a lot of you on here think this would be great. Honestly, i think its a complete nightmare from a PR standpoint. AI is probably the only liked figure associated with the franchise in the last 15 years, and they're going to cut him while he tends to a hospitalized child?

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Feb 22 at 14:47
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Yeah, it sounds like he's gone for the year and maybe his career.

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johnrosz reply to Rich on Feb 22 at 14:52
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This franchise needs to be sold. If they actually do this to AI and its not a mutual decision, they will have managed to alienate the remaining 5000 sixers fans in the city

I did not want them to take on AI in the first place. But you don't cut a guy because his daughter is sick. He is a part of the Sixer family forever.

I certainly would not guarantee him a starting spot. I would not even give him more than 15 minutes a game (even in ideal circumstances, since we need minutes for Jrue and Meeks.) But you don't cut him. That is just classless.

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johnrosz reply to tk76 on Feb 22 at 15:03
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He can go hang out with Mo Cheeks after he gets cut, seems like this regime is trying to do whatever they can to alienate Sixers greats. I haven't been too hard on Stefanski, I've focused most of my blame on Jordan, but the fact that this story even got out is a blemish that this franchise doesn't need right now. WTF are they doing?

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Rich reply to tk76 on Feb 22 at 15:07
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If they cut him, they eat the rest of his salary, correct? This is BS it should be money spent to get rid of Jordan. If you are willing to just eat AI's salary (which really is not a necessary move right now), then you better be able to get rid of Jordan, which is freakin imperative.

I didn't want AI back simply because I wanted to develop this young team, but I feel that he gave a world-class effort. I will always hold him in a positive light, because he played his ass off for every minute he played here (Minus the few games before he was traded, but it's the NBA so I'm not going to hold that against him).

what about michael redd. He would fit in well for the sixers. A SG that can defend and hit 3's consistently. He's only 30.

Redd can't defend, and hasn't really done much of anything else either for the past couple of seasons. I'd trade EB for him, though, because his contract expires after next season. Highly doubtful MIL would do it, though.

made michael redd for elton brand and willie green


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