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Sixers Almost Blow Another One

I really enjoy that our two crunch time guys are Louis Williams the 4th and Iguodala

AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 24 at 11:14

I think you are being sarcastic, but on this blog you never know. Fellow bloggers tk476 and JonEMagee love the ball in Iguodala's hands down 2 with 15 seconds left. Magee thinks that 'clutch' is a trait that does not really exist.

JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 24 at 11:18

Someday you'll learn how to read and understand what people have said

In other news - the sixers have achieved equilibrium

According to the ESPN efficiency stats - the sixers are now 20th in both offensive and defensive efficiency

Congrats to the sixers

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 24 at 12:59

Magee , dont make me go back and find the post on Ben Gordon where you smugly backhanded his 7 buzzer beaters in his rookie year.

The Greek reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Feb 24 at 12:02

aaron I have to vouch for TK, he is a good fan.

I'm not quite sure where this comes from. But Iguodala has had his share of clutch shots over the past 2 years. But I don't think of him as a "closer." But at least he does not shy away for taking the big shot. Same applies to Lou.

I read an analyss of "clutch" shots last year. Iguodala was solid, no better or worse than a number of big names... But the guys who really came though at a high percentage were the great shooters (like Allan and Ginobli.) My guess is that those guy took more spot up jumpers that other guards created for them through penetration.

More cryptic sarcasm:

The best part of Iguodala's game in the final minutes is his ability to create and get off his 3pt shot.

He's a 32% career 3pt shooter which is good.

I cannot imagine what it must be like to play for a coach like Jordan. Jordan has ruined Kapono (shooting, that is) and now is working on the rest of the team.

Can someone please explain the reasoning for not playing Meeks so they can see if their scouting was correct?

MG77 reply to DeanH on Feb 24 at 12:04

Because Meeks is the 11th man on this roster and you don't give the 11th man meaningful minutes unless you are largely nuts.

They made the Meeks trade to dump some salary. That's all. He is just a warm body at the league minimum.

JohnEMagee reply to MG77 on Feb 24 at 12:07

They made the Meeks trade to dump some salary. That's all. He is just a warm body at the league minimum.

Except it was pretty much revenue neutral for this year and next year due to the fact that he's a minimum salary player as well.

Yes it turned into a close gam, but if a guy can't get in a 25 point game - when can he get in - how do you see what you have?

Not sarcasm:

Very strong "clutch" stats however. (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)

Production per 48 Minutes of Clutch Time

Team Player Gm Min +/- +/- Fga Fg% 3pA 3p% Fta Ft%
PHI Iguodala 42 158 47 +14 20.1 .485 4.9 .313 18.8 85%

Pts Ast'd Reb Ast T/o Blk Stl
37.1 40% 10.0 3.0 2.7 0.9 2.7

I just hate when he wings it from 3.

Are those numbers from this season for him?

My mistake, I posted 2007-08 season stats.


Team Player Gm Min +/- +/- Fga Fg% 3pA 3p% Fta Ft%
PHI Iguodala 47 182 44 +12 20.6 .474 4.2 .125 15.6 81%

Pts Ast'd Reb Ast T/o Blk Stl
32.7 45% 9.2 4.5 3.7 1.3 0.8

Interesting that his T/O rate is higher than I expected, steals are lower. It's a pretty small sample size though. 3pt % = .125

Are these from 82games.com?

Shawn reply to Brian on Feb 24 at 12:01


JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on Feb 24 at 12:03

The T/O rate being up can be partially attributed to the absence f Miller I would think?

Shawn reply to JohnEMagee on Feb 24 at 12:09

2008-2009 would include Miller.

I also think the FTA is impressive, he is ranked #11, he was even better in 2007-2008. I wonder what it is this year.

This year he's:

Fga Fg% Fta Ft%
22 40% 13.6 70%

Pts Ast'd Ast Blk
29.7 33% 4.8 0.7

The source link for all NBA players last year:


And the "game winning shots" link (through mid last season:

Data is 2003 - early 2009

Look beyond #made. Look at FG%.. Kobe 25%, Lebron 34%, Iverson 39%, Melo 48%, Gordon 35%, Iguodala 36%. League average 30%.

Shawn reply to tk76 on Feb 24 at 15:51

FG % matters a lot, I agree. However, in my humble opinion, for a guy like Iguodala, I am much more interested in how often he can get to the line if his team is down by 1 or 2 with the final possession. This is something I have gone CRAZY over because we've all seen him barrel to the basket with a strange running jumper or a no chance in hell rainbow shot in the lane. I do not think he can systematically beat someone off the dribble, which is why he shoots so many 3pointers at the end of games. I wish he could rely on getting to the line because he IS so fast.

It's one of my pet peeves.

I have high standards for Iguodala.

Iguodala has lots of strengths, but a quick first step is not one of them. He can get past his man, but more through strength and ball handling. And without a fast first step, its easier for defenses to crowd him.

For the most part, end-of-game shots are jumpers. Teams put their best defenders on the ball, they clog the lane, refs are loathe to blow the whistle. Guys use their dribble to get a jumper, hopefully from somewhere where they have a decent success rate. Iguodala can get his jumper off, using his dribble and his lift.

Last five minutes, though, is another story. You definitely want him going to the hole and drawing contact for a number of reasons. Those FTA numbers were pretty good for Iguodala last season.

MylesKong on Feb 24 at 12:38

Man that dunk by Jrue was impressive! I just seen a youtubed highlight of him doing a 360 dunk. At the time was like "I didn't know he could get up" then last night happened.
Doesn't Green have someone sick to tend to too for the remainder of the season?

Jeff reply to MylesKong on Feb 24 at 12:45

not to be the blog police or anything, but let's not make light of that situation.

3 Jrue plays I remember; 2 from last night - the thunderous dunk and the rebound he skied for an almost nabbed in the 4th quarter. the 3rd was from another game, maybe against the kIngs, that his man blew past him on a quick first step towards the rim along the baseline and I thought he was beat already but he magically recovered and knocked the ball out of the opposing's hand out of bounds.
All 3 of these really shocked me because all of a sudden he showed incredible quickness and athleticism. something he is not really known for. so we know he can do it if he wants to. if he can find a way to translate that skill to his offensive game the same way Miller got by his man by changing speeds so suddenly, it could really help him. he needs to be able to get to the rim like last night since shooting isnt really his forte. hope he continues to improve that outside shot. right now its still on Iguodala-rookie level.

Jrue's above league average (36.7%) on 1.7 attempts/game from three. Behind only Jason Smith (40%) and Carney (36.8%).

It's his two-point jumpers that have been horrible.

eFG% on jumpers is 42%. Not too bad.

Thorpe on Jrue:

Jrue Holiday, 76ers | Rookie card
A defensive talent, Holiday is getting comfortable as the starting point guard in Philly. And his offense is coming around -- he has made over 45 percent of his 3s in 2010 and is finishing around the rim better.

The Sixers still have questions about their future, but one answer seems to have emerged -- they have their point guard. And he's going to be very good.

I wish Jrue could have had a year of playing alongside Miller. He could have learned a ton about scoring (and pump fakes) as a bigger PG.

jkay reply to tk76 on Feb 24 at 14:26

true but i prefer he develop his own identity.
the pump fake Lou learned from Miller has only served to help him pass up open shots for contested ones. no point imitating if you cant use it right.
if anyone he needs to learn from its Iverson; to learn how to be aggressive all the time. its a mind set that is understated and has made AI3 who he is. the pass-first, passive Holiday could really use some of that.

Jrue is aggressive all of the time on defense. he really takes it personally. Lou stepped up on offense in the 4th, but Jrue was equally assertive defensively (although Lou had the bigger impact.)

The thing I liked about last night was Jrue playing with some anger. After a BS whistle you could see him seething, and he took it out on his man on the defensive end. I touched on him getting on Lou for leaving Morrow to help him with Curry in the game thread. Looked like he was saying, "I don't need help, man. I've got him. Stick to your man."

MylesKong reply to Brian on Feb 24 at 15:57

He was definitely aggressive early. I fell asleep at half and it sounds like he went for a dunk back late. That's awesome!

And not that I want to say anything that may conceived as positive in reference to the coach. However, maybe pushing jrue to chuck it a little bit is good for him. Not being afraid to miss is good for a young player win they are already prone to getting the other guys involved.
I'm elated with the kid. His arc is very similar to Thad in his rookie season. I like it!

My "green light" concerns about EJ are almost insubstantial compared to watching the Warriors. How many shots did Curry take BEFORE he got hot near the end?

Let's hope the similarities to Thad end at their rookie seasons, and Jrue continues to develop.

More of Thorpe on Jrue, from his chat today:

Matt (PA) - David, thanks for the chat. What's Jrue Holliday's upside? Dare i hope for Gary Payton?

David Thorpe - I'm not sure he gets that good, but I think he's a starting pg for 12+ years. He'll outlast most guys in this class.

I'm really impressed by a lot of the PG's drafted this year. Not sure how many stars we will get, but a total of 11 solid PG's who will either be starters or solid role players is amazing for one year.


Mike P. reply to Brian on Feb 24 at 16:11

Jrue getting big minutes is the highlight of the rest of this season.

If Ed S can get rid of Brand magically this offseason I will be back in the optimistic seat. Until then I am still in the "Our team is really crappy and will be for awhile because the owners don't really care" zone.

Why did the Jrue-Iguodala connection fail to make the ESPN Top 10?

BTW, all 5 Warrior defenders were between Jrue and Iguodala while the pass was in the air. Jrue threw it from behind half court, and Iguodala was behind the three point line when the pass was initiated.

Imagine throwing an alley-oop to a guy who is behind the 3 point line...


Mike P. reply to tk76 on Feb 24 at 16:40

Because ESPN cares even less then the city of philadelphia does.

The Brand contract makes me even sadder because if we manage to land a good 2 guard in the draft we'd potentially have our backcourt set for almost the next decade.


Wow. You know, that pass was the only chance they had to get an advantage. GSW was back, and the Sixers were at a 3-on-5 disadvantage if he doesn't get that pass, over the top, at the rim. Iguodala looks like he stepped on an invisible ladder halfway up to the rim. Looks like his jump maxed out right around when caught it, but someone got another foot of air to make the dunk. Wow.

Yeah, amazing play. At first glance what Iguodala did was most impressive- being able to finish on a slightly off target pass... But the pass itself, given where it was thrown and the circumstance- was even better.

Probably to risky of a play, but incredibly entertaining. Even better when seen on replays.

MylesKong reply to Brian on Feb 24 at 16:23

Coincidentally, I was saying to friends today that's he's The Glove II.

And that's cold jab at Thad, Brian. I think he's improved his ballhandling a lot this year. Before he did work when he got the ball around the hoop. Now he's seems to drive in from the perimeter a lot more. Also, not knowing what position you're going to play going into the season may stifle development a good deal.

However, it's season three so no more excuses. Get better Thad.

He's improved certain areas of his game, but overall, he's a worse player now. The uncertainty definitely isn't helping, neither is playing the four, but his hustle stats have taken a serious hit, and they were a big part of why I personally thought he had a really high ceiling. He's become one-dimensional, unfortunately.

Obviously that light could still go on, but I'd say he's been a disappointment in the his second and third seasons to this point.

I enjoy watching Jrue greatly.

Using a good, simple metric, Win Score, Jrue just hasn't measured up, though.

Jrue - 4 (5.5 since new year)
Lou(now) - 8.9
Lawson - 8.7
Rondo(rookie) - 8

It is hard for me to believe we are looking at a guy destined for anything other than average-marginally above average.(give or take a little)

Do you have a link explaining win score and showing these results? Can't really respond when I don't know the basis or scale of the measurement.

Joe reply to Brian on Feb 25 at 9:29

Win Score = PTS + REB + STL + ½*BLK + ½*AST – FGA – ½*FTA – TO – ½*PF


That is a good link for calculating it.

I would love it if Jrue pulls everything together and is a great player. I love watching him either way and will continue to do so. The issue I have is that if the numbers are telling a different story, then I think it needs to be considered. I doubt any advanced measures are looking too kindly on Jrue right now and that means at least something.

OK, thanks for the link. What's the 4.5 number you're using above, his average win score per 48 minutes?

Joe reply to Brian on Feb 25 at 14:59

Win Score per 48, yeah.

Like most stats, it is weighted more for offensive production.

Also, if Jrue was passing to Pierce, Allen and KG don't you think his assist numbers would be higher?

Do you have a link to the formula? I don't even know if it's a cumulative number or an average. I'd also like to know what each of these guys did in their first 800 minutes as a 19-year-old rookie, and also how predictive the first 800 minutes of a 19-year-old rookie's season could possibly be, but I guess that's another argument.

Points + Rebounds + Steals + ½Assists + ½Blocked Shots – Field Goal Attempts – Turnovers – ½Free Throw Attempts – ½Personal Fouls


It is dependent on minutes played. But I think there also is some sort of WS/36min type number.

I can't believe twitter has hit 10 billion tweets

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