DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan

All  

Sixers

, all the time

Lakers Outlast Sixers

Iguodala was 3-5 around the rim and 2-10 from everywhere else, Dalembert was 9-13 around the rim and 3-9 from everywhere else. Kind of ridiculous that Sam's permitted to take all those jumpers.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Feb 27 at 3:45
+/-

And it should be just as ridiculous of Iguodala taking them himself. He just is so reluctant to attack sometimes.

It's nice that he works on his craft and jumper in particular, but just don't be so damn in love with it.

He really doesn't have that many options in the half court. His first step isn't great, and he doesn't have great touch around the rim. When he doesn't have a size mismatch, his post game is minimal.

His best weapon when he gets in the lane is his passing, but in terms of his own offense, the pull up jump shot's actually about his best asset. Which is slightly scary if you're asking him to be a #1/#1a option.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 27 at 13:36
+/-

Trying to draw contact to get to the line or draw other defenders is always an option.

user-pic
Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 27 at 15:09
+/-

His first step isn't great, and

I'll continue to disagree about this. His first step is good enough to get him in the lane consistently. His ability to penetrate and create for others was the main reason the Sixers stayed close in the first half. The lack of touch around the rim is what prevents him from finishing (when he chooses to shoot), not the lack of a first step.

I didn't say his first step was horrible, I said it wasn't great. I think it's about average for a wing player.

It's certainly not the highlight of his game, from an athletic standpoint.

user-pic
Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 27 at 19:49
+/-

I didn't say his first step was horrible, I said it wasn't great. I think it's about average for a wing player.

Fair enough. It's hard to judge if one player has a better first step than another, unless it's someone like prime Iverson who was always getting by his man. But I think it could be fairly stated that Iguodala is an above-average penetrator at the SF position. Around the NBA, there are not that many forwards who get in the lane as much as he does. So something must be above-average -- first step, dribbling, natural footspeed?

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Considering his usage. Maybe if you're talking about guys who ONLY play SF and not swing players (i.e. guys like Richard Jefferson, Carmelo Anthony, Deng, etc). But if you include the SG/SF combo's, I don't think he's in the top tier of penetrators.

(NOTE: when I say penetration, I'm not talking about getting into the lane on fast breaks).

user-pic
Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 27 at 20:48
+/-

But if you include the SG/SF combo's, I don't think he's in the top tier of penetrators.

Well, I did say above-average penetrator at the SF position. But I think I have a broader definition of what a successful penetration is, and it can't be captured entirely by existing stats. A successful penetration for me is defined as any of the following: (1) a made basket, (2) a foul drawn and free throws, (3) a foul drawn, non-shooting, (4) a pass to someone for an open shot, (5) a pass to someone that leads indirectly to an open shot. An unsuccessful penetration would be defined as: (1) a miss, (2) a turnover, (3) a pass to someone that doesn't lead to an open shot [i.e., time wasted on the shot clock].

Anyhow, you did an interesting analysis before re: penetration efficiency, and I think you were able to include halfcourt assists (though not able to distinguish penetration assists). I wonder if you included the whole set of SG's in the analysis where Iguodala would rank. I still think he would be in the top half (if assists were counted), because a lot of SG's don't penetrate (to shoot OR pass) with regularity. For every Wade or Ginobili there are two Anthony Parkers or Corey Brewers. Just my opinion ...


I generally agree with your definition of "success".

Top half? That's definitely fair. I guess I took above average to be a little more stronger of a compliment than that.

No, I meant Sam. One thing for your ostensible shooting guard to take shots, but another for your range-less center to take a lot of them.

user-pic
johnrosz on Feb 27 at 4:08
+/-

EB is lucky that nobody in Philly cares about basketball. Can you imagine if a member of any of the other 3 teams signed a huge contract like that and was this underwhelming...yikes

pretty obvious to me what's going on with brand. before this season he played 37 games total since '06/'07 (8 in '07/08 and 29 in '08/09). he's at 53 games this season. he'll be 31 next week. you do the math.

user-pic
bebopdeluxe on Feb 27 at 9:04
+/-

So...it sounds like MJ's ownership group got the Bobcats after all.

Damn.

I know most will disagree, but I loved Thad's perimeter defense. He switched out on Kobe and cut off his drives, stripped Odom on his drive, and hustled his ass off. Wish he would play at the 3 more. I think he could be an average (to possibly above average) defender at his natural position and with a capable defensive coach.

He got burned by Odom in the post late, there aren't many three's that can match up with Odom's length and size. The only reason Odom hasn't been an 18-20 ppg scorer throughout his career has been because of Odom.

I also thought Speights was decent off the ball. Defending Gasol? Train wreck. But he gave some decent weakside help. When you're talking about a defender as bad as Speights, I guess I'm happy with baby steps.

(and that pass from Speights to Young, who then quickly put on the breaks, threw a fake, watched Odom fly by and lay it in was perhaps the highlight of the night. Speights passing skills aren't the problem. The mentality is. So frustrating).

2 points and 4 rebounds. He really struggles offensively against size. 4 friggin rebounds in almost 31 minutes?

90 points on 91 shots? No fouls didn't help. The Lakers are stout defensively.

Holiday's showing more and more ability to finish at the rim. I like it. Even the one's he missed were well executed with decent touch, some just rimmed out. He changes speeds really well for a 19 year old.

Can't really be too upset, either about the outcome or about any individual player, outside of Brand.

i keep voicing this; Speights is really playing well RELATIVE to what he put on before. he's actually trying. he passed up his shot like twice yesterday! he has now graduated to playing bad defense as opposed to none. I think its that Rodney Carney treatment he's getting from Stefaski? have'nt given up on him at all. he could round out to be starter material.

user-pic
Statman reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 27 at 19:54
+/-

I think he could be an average (to possibly above average) defender at his natural position and with a capable defensive coach.

I actually agree with this and have always been puzzled why he isn't better than he is. He doesn't have good lateral quickness, as you noted, but he has better anticipation than most SF's. Where he really needs to improve (and I think this could be instilled by the right coach) is his "toughness" -- not backing off when an opposing player gets physical with him, and especially improving his rebounding on the defensive glass. I think the physical tools are there, but the mentality isn't always there.

Im surprised you didn't mention how well Dalembert played. He kept us in the game. Brand was awful. We held a 5 point lead in the 3rd quarter that vanished because of a stretch of jump shots we took in the game. I can't blame Eddie Jordan for this loss except for the fact that he took out Dalembert while he was playing really well. I can understand how the Lakers are a good rebounding team when their C,PF, and SF are all 7 ft.

user-pic
jkay reply to stan on Feb 27 at 11:15
+/-

not to add on but dont forget overplaying Carney, sitting Jrue in the late 4th quarter (who stifled Kobe all by himself).
but we would have lost anyhow so....

as usual Andre Iguodala is his own worst enemy. in spite of being the MVP on our side, he had to go and toss that ridiculous off balance airball. that was a key swing in the game. oh well...

user-pic
shawn reply to jkay on Feb 27 at 12:19
+/-

my biggest issue with igz bar none

I'm hoping Brand is playing with some injury with some injury he shouldn't be playing with or something..... Maybe, this being his first full season after barely playing the last two seasons is making it difficult for him to keep his energy. That's probably wishful thinking, he's probably in the same boat Jermaine O'neal is in, still has skill but not the athleticism.

user-pic
stan reply to ojr107 on Feb 27 at 16:47
+/-

Atleast Oneil has an expiring contrat

Certainly not frustrated by the loss... but I think they might have stole a win had they not gotten so 3-pt happy down the stretch.

Brand's line was as painful as you might expect, given his struggles:

In 30 minutes: 1-6, O FT, 4reb, 1 asst, 2 TO, 1 blk, 2 pts.

BTW, 15M/82 games = $183,000 per game, and that number is only rising.

So Brand score 1 point per $91,000 1 reb per $46,000.

...but he still is a better bargain than EJ :)

But to be fair, Thad played 26+ min at PF, grabbing 1 defensive board (although had 4 o-boards.)

The combined struggles of Brand and Speights make PF an issue moving forward. Add that to SF and Center (unless they extend Sam) as areas of long term concern.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Feb 27 at 13:46
+/-

Yeah, I mentioned the lack of defense down the stretch from our PF position last night.

Speights doesn't play a lick, EB couldn't guard Jamal Wilkes if he came out of the stands last night, and Thad was already at a disadvantage height and strength wise vs Odom.

But you mention SF being a position of long term concern - what about Iguodala there?

Sorry, meant SG and C.

user-pic
jkay reply to tk76 on Feb 27 at 16:37
+/-

lmao

Michael Jordan is buying the Bobcats. Does that mean anything with the Larry Brown coming here situation?

for the reasoning yahoo sports cited, it would kill it.

For those who questioned Evan Turner's jumpshot, he had his midrange game on full display today.

There should be no question about Turner's ability to shoot- and his shot selection is good. As you have mentioned before, the issue is his range, and whether you could put him in the same back-court as Iguodala and Jrue.

But for some reason I think both Jrue and Iguodala are going to improve their jumpers to respectable over the next few years.

A lot of people (around here) compare his offensive game to Iguodala's, and it's just not valid (IMO). First step, ability to finish in the lane, pull up game, midrange game. All significantly better than Iguodala's IMO.

He's the player of the year at this point, in my book.

You've watched him more than me. But from the couple of games I've see I definitely agree. I think his game translates really well into the NBA.

user-pic
JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Feb 28 at 13:05
+/-

My comparison of him to Iguodala is his all around game - he does all things very well but I dn't think he's great at any one thing. I don't say that as a 'hit' on him, I think it's great, dude runs point for the buckeyes this year...I don't know if he's making buford look better or buford is that good, but the second half yesterday was one to watch.

I think Iguodala and Turner would be fine together assuming Jrue continues to grow the way I think he can.

I also think Turner is #2 or #3 in the draft depending on Demarcus Cousins and the sixers are probably not going to have a chance to draft him.

contrary to popular opinion, I think Iguodala's jumper is pretty manageable. he is always going to be a streaky shooter but from within the arc, the shot is pretty consistent. THE PROBLEM is the shot selection. half the shots Iguodala takes are either off balance, contested, without his feet set or not in rhythm. guy just loves to let it go when he feels he is hot. hot meaning he probably made one or two shots after missing a plethora earlier.

Trivia question: in the 4 game road trip, which Sixer averaged 7.7 points and 6.2 rebounds in 30 minutes of action, on 30% shooting (12/39)?

great stuff Derek. did you set that module up? or it comes by another source? anyway, very useful, thx

Yup, I set it up. Just enter in how many games back you want to go, select the game to start at (i.e. the last game in the series, it defaults to the current date), and it'll get the stats, and show the game log.

If you haven't yet, check out the searchable stats (i.e. get the Sixers record and player performance with/without Iverson, or when Dalembert plays > 40 minutes), and the rotations (i.e. getting the on-court/off-court stats of times when Holiday and Iguodala are at the PG and SG together.

http://nba.phillyarena.com/teamstats/
http://nba.phillyarena.com/rotations/

These little tools are my little pet projects.

Yup, I set it up. Just enter in how many games back you want to go, select the game to start at (i.e. the last game in the series, it defaults to the current date), and it'll get the stats, and show the game log.

If you haven't yet, check out the searchable stats (i.e. get the Sixers record and player performance with/without Iverson, or when Dalembert plays > 40 minutes), and the rotations (i.e. getting the on-court/off-court stats of times when Holiday and Iguodala are at the PG and SG together.

http://nba.phillyarena.com/teamstats/

These little tools are my little pet projects.

most likely Lou.

Iggy is Diet LeBron.

Same game, just way less stats.

Bron should barely ever shoot jumpers and Iggy shouldn't either.

And if we get the chance to take Turner, we take him. He is great. Then an Iggy deal wouldn't be as cringe worthy as before.

I believe Jrue could develop a solid three point shot. Iggy is 26 now. I don't think his shooting is going to make some amazing Gerald Wallace rebounding jump anytime.

I'll be sad when the Sixers go .500 over the rest of the year and get the last pick int he lottery. Missing Whiteside, Monroe, Turner, Johnson (even though we don't need ANOTHER sf), Aldrich, and Wall.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to Mike P. on Feb 27 at 21:01
+/-

If us getting the last pick means not getting Aldrich, that will be a good thing.

I forgot Henry, who I'd love to get. Then we could keep Iggy.

Just read one of Conley's better columns:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20100226_Bob_Cooney__Sixerville__What_we_ve_learned_about_the_Sixers.html

Hope we can start this Fire Eddie Chants again next Monday.


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment


back-to-story.gif