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Fact is, even if we fill one of those 2 holes, we still won't be good enough. I'd rather get a 2 that can stretch the floor. Maybe that we could trade Lou/Thad/Speights for a decent young big with upside.

no question here, I'd go with a shooter, reguardless of his position (SG or SF)

after all we have a C, who is having a semi-decent year and is signed until 2011. I would draft a big only if there would be a chance to pick a very good one, and a real center (not another Speights or Jason Smith-type of PF who CAN occasionaly play C, a big, strong seven footer)

With a good, young shooter we can work on a deal for a decent center involving one of our many swingmen, and/or one of the expirings (I mean mainly Kap and Green here, obviously)

a Brandan Haywood or Kendrick Perkins type (= Dalembert, at half the price) would be ok

A shooter (who can also defend) is probably the bigger immediate need.

Filling neither with a non-franchise level player really doesn't do much, though. The best player, regardless of position, is still the way to go.

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deepsixersuede reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 2 at 8:07
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Would love your opinion on Alabi, when you get a chance to watch his film, he reminds me personality and buildwise of a young Mutombo and his team was great defensively. He seems to have a clue unlike the things I read about Whiteside.

I asked about Alabi at Libertyballers. he sounds like the right kind of project to target as Sam's replacement. they need a wide body 7 footer with decent athleticism. Otherwise certain teams (Howard) are just going to kill thim.

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deepsixersuede on Apr 2 at 8:03
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If [Wall, Turner,Favors, Cousins, Johnson and Aldrich] are off the board I feel a slight trade down is in order. Picks 7 through 18 are equal valuewise and the 2 best s.g.!s [Henry and Anderson] can probably be had in the teens. My dream scenerio, other than moving up, is trading with Miami and getting Alabi and either Henry or Anderson.They have 2 picks in the teens.But is our organization going to have an idea of where these guys are going ? Not confident in that.

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Duracorr on Apr 2 at 8:54
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This question is made more difficult to answer than it should be because of the failed coaching selection. here we are a full season further along and we still don't know whether or not Thad, Lou, and Andre, given a full time shooting coach, can develop that part of their game. We don't know what Carney's potential is. We don't know if Speights and Williams can play defense if properly motivated. If we assume what we see is what we get, then the first choice should be a wing player with an NBA-quality shot. I'm just afraid one of those four wing players is going to go somewhere else, be properly coached and become a much better player.

I guess it depends on how much they intend to blow things up this summer. If they are committed to a backcourt of Iguodala/Jrue then they should find the right shooter to make that combo work. Wes Johnson sounds Ideal, but who knows if they can trade up for him (or maybe he slips to them like Iguodala did?)

With the front court they have a similar problem. If the finally are successful in moving Sam, then they need a center. I guess Speights/Brand/Smith/Thad could be your rotation- but that would be weak and lack depth. If you keep Sam then it is less of a pressing need- at least for a year.

Lastly, are they looking to return to respectability next year- or is another lottery trip acceptable? I think that depends on who is GM and how much house cleaning is done (Iguodala trade means rebuilding.) Next year is a decent time to aim low, because we can expect some growing pains from Jrue that will cost a competitive team some games.

I'm not suggesting they tank a whole year. But I allso think they need a prime time talent and doubt they will enter next season with one unless they win the lottery. So another down year- with positive steps from the young players, is not the worst thing that can happen.

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JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 9:40
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Like I said earlier, I only see two nba starters of quality left on this roster going forward (past next season) and a lot of bench holes...so i'm still going with best player available in the draft and/or best player yo ucan find willing to come to philadlephia for near next to nothing (nba nothing)

But will Iguodala be on the team next year? If a GM wants to blow things up he would be the guy you move given all of the teams with big cap space this summer.

I'd only do a move if it brought back serious value (including future pick(s). Definitely against moving him as part of a pure salary dump like the deals discussed at the deadline. In fact, I'd like to see them keep him.

Thad might be the right piece to move, since his cap hold the following summer is about 8M. If they got a young player back without that cap hold it would free up some cap space (and the flexibility that brings) for the pre-lock-out summer. But Thad's value is probably too low to move him for fair value right now.

This team sure is a puzzle. Becasue the major flaw is not addressable :)

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 10:26
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I believe Iguodala gets moved by the draft, but I have no evidence of that aside from my gut feeling, which while usually right for me is often ignored by others :)

I don't think Thad has much trade value honestly after this season - you can't trade thad now - at least not in my mind - if you want to move him - give him half a season to up his trade value, trade him by the deadline next year as a sweetener to get help from under your luxury tax burden.

If the sixers really only have one bullet to use, they should put it under their chin and pull the trigger...because there's not really one realistic move that restores this franchise to anything more than (on the upside) a first round playoff loser, perenitally

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 10:27
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until iguodala is moved, go with the information we have now. assume he is on the team. i doubt Wes will be available for us or that we will move up to draft him. i prefer to stay grounded in reality. i cant wait to come back here at the end of novemeber and say i told you so about aldrich. save this post john...because im coming in november, and im bringing hell with me.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 10:30
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Go back and read that thread and all those posts about how the sixers should have taken ty lawson over jrue holiday after a small sample size was indicated. How many people still think the sixers should have taken Lawson over Holiday?

You can bring all the hell you want, after your whole 'rebounding' ideas yesterday, it means nothing to me anyway.

Draft Express currently projects Johnson 8 and Davis 7

So Johnson could be available depending on how workouts go

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 10:36
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everyone wanted lawson. jrue is better. whats the point? im not saying anything abt aldrich v johnson. just saying that johnson likely wont be there. draft express is great but every other site has wes going higher. anyway, its obviuously not a bad thing if the sixers take johnson if available.

i could care less what you and all of your stat cronies think . keep thinking sam is a good piece. good luck with that title run. id just prefer to call him a stiff and move on.,

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 10:41
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Not really sure who 'everyone' is. ESPN has him at 5 - NBADraft.net has no reliability as they'll change their mock constantly just to get traffic (it's well known)

The point is crowing in November about a rookie is as pointless as making up statistics about the 'types' of rebounds (without being able to support them with things like facts) to discount a player one seems to have a personal vendetta against.

If you could care less, please do, but 'stat cronies' or not, your dismissing of statistics out of hand and over generalization and inability to comprehend what people are actually saying (who said sam was going to help the sixers win the title) is why you crowing about Cole Aldrich come November has no meaning...why should people have any respect for you or what you say when you dismiss out of hand statistics (maybe just the ones you don't like) like some idiot old time baseball writer who thinks he has to 'protect the game' - when all statistics do is expand the understanding of the game because unlike the eye, numbers aren't fooled by perception, prejudice and preconception. I'm sorry that it angers you so much when people disagree with you. I'm sorry that you get pissed off when people debate your pronouncements and refuse to take them at face value. I'm sorry you think that you shouldn't have to prove your theories on 'valueless rebounds' and how sam has more than anyone else...it seems to really bother you. So I'm sorry your unsupported opinions get no support. I truly am

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 10:47
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john, lets just leave yesterday in the past. no one wants to revisit that.

nothing to do with the sixers......I think aldrich will be a hell of a player. you think he will be average. So i am putting in writing, man to man. And i will come back and say i told you so. and i dont want to hear how everyone knew he would be THIS good. im putting my prediction in writing , so i have proof. and then you will understand that what i 'see' has value. its all out here for me. my c--- is in the wind. if i come up limp like a frat boy on coke, then its on me.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 10:51
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Yesterday is just a symptom of the greater problem, and so is this braggadacio you seem to be involved in. This need to stroke your ego online by possibly being right about one player...like being right about one thing discounts being wrong about many things...everyones wrong...sometimes...if you're right about Aldrich and I'm wrong, big deal...i've been wrong before, i'll be wrong again , nthe point is when i'm wrong (and proven wrogn) i can be man enough to admit it - bragging when you're right isn't manly, it's cowardly and shameful...be man enough to admit you're wrong sometime and then we can talk about you being so 'bold and brave'.

The point is (which you keep ignoring) is that you somehow think that by next november the career of cole aldrich will be defined - NBA careers aren't defined in the first season, let alone the first month...so i'm not sure why you think you'll be able to decide who was right or wrong about aldrich so early in the season (hence the comparison to Holiday vs Lawson, it's an analogy)

If it makes you feel better to brag about being right about Aldrich (presuming you are) then more power to you, I'm glad it would mean so much to you to be right about something so insignificant in the grand scheme of my own personal life (or yours I would hope)

But all your macho bravado bs that you feel the need to write is just silly...

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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:07
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It's funny that your write this because after our initial Aundrey Blatche debate he went out and averaged 24.5 and 10 for about 20 games and I didn't hear a peep out of you but the first second he got a hiccuup you ran to the board and talked shit the first chance you could you wannabe internet tough guy...http://miltownkid.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/internettoughguy.jpg

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Apr 2 at 11:14
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And yet you only talk about Blatche when he does well and ignore when he embarasses himself and acts exactly the same as DeMarcus Cousins yet he's been in the NBA for a few more years hasn't he.

My point on Blatche that I made before still stands (and you still ignore it) - small sample size - let's see him do it consistently over a few months without any incidences that have marred his entire nba career in terms of behavior and maturity issues.

I love how you point out my 'flaws' in acknowledging Blatche and ignore the fact that you ignore Blatches...that's awesome - not sure it's irony - but it's close.

It would be nice, if you're really such a blatche fan, if maybe you became a wizards fan, i can suggest many quality wizards blogs.

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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:22
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I'm a sixers fan to the death, even though their taking years off of my life.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:03
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dont you recall the iguodala argument when i conceded i was wrong and that he is actually a really good player? you love to take single, simple points and extrapolate them into something bigger. its not like i bet on a horse everyday, get 10% right and then brag about winning. so, keep your diatribe to yourself.

you dont really want to talk about being cowardly, do you ? stick to the topics.

"everyone wanted lawson"

Not I. I said before, during, and after the draft that Holiday was the right piece.

http://www.phillyarena.com/archives/2009-06-26/Sixers-select-UCLA-point-guard-Jrue-Holiday


"Grade:
A. Can't fault anyone here. Of the remaining point guard options (Lawson, Maynor, Teague, Collison), he was a tier ahead. Are there questions about him? Sure. Just as there are of every other option at pick #17. I would have had some (slight) concern taking Holiday in the top 8, simply for the near-necessity of basing a large portion of your evaluation of him on his high school days. But at #17? The upside drastically outweighs the risks. Not only did Holiday have the highest upside of the remaining options, he also has a high level of probability of reaching that upside.

Outside of unrealistic dreams (i.e. trading up to get Rubio), this was about as good of an outcome as Sixers fans could have expected. In 3 years he may very well be another in the growing line of Sixers draft-day successes."

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 2 at 11:09
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I don't remember 'everyone' wanting Lawson either - I just remember a couple months into the season the 'post' that brian had to write and limit conversation to because it seemed like a daily requirement to see how lawson was out playing holiday.

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of those folk have come around to see how Holiday was the right (and better) option than Lawson.

Can't always decide who was a good pick a month into the season was the only point i was trying to make myself - the whole 'everyone' thing never works, i mean aside from eddie jodan needing to be fired, is there anything that 'everyone' agrees on?

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:17
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the 'everyone' remark was just not right. i guess AT THE TIME i remember a lot discusion with people disappointed that we passed on lawson (because people thought lwasons scoring wa s a good fit). it was at the very least, a passionate discussion. anyway,m i was answering a point not making one.

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steve reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 15:17
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Not everyone wanted Ty Lawson I went back to the draft board post and found my big board. Fun to go back and see everyones predections and see how it turned out. heres my comment : I have to pat myself on th eback for a pretty good draft board.

http://www.depressedfan.com/basketball/sixers/my-draft-board.php

1.Jrue Holiday
2.Tyreke Evans
3.Stephen Curry
4.Ty Lawson
5.Terrence Williams
6.Brandon Jennings
7.Jeff Teague
8.Eric Maynor
9.Marcus Thornton
10.Toney Douglas

Top three guys probably won't be there but if Holiday starts slipping hopefully Ed Stefanski will make the move to get up a few spots to grab him.

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JohnEMagee reply to steve on Apr 2 at 15:19
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I know- it's like the word 'always' or 'never' - shouldn't really use 'everyone' unless it was clear (like firing joran) that everyone really thought it.

I personally didn't have a preference because I was still in the trust DiLeo camp - I still am but this year has made me a bit worried

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steve reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 15:23
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What do you think of Udoh? Personally if we stick at 7 he'd be a nice pick but im afraid he doesn't have a ton of upside he'll be 23 pretty soon. Al-Faroug Aminu would be my guy if he's available. Avoid Aldrich at all costs. What do you think of Aminu?

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JohnEMagee reply to steve on Apr 2 at 15:44
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I defer to Derek in these things.. he gets a lot more access to footage of these guys than we do in the small sample size tv viewings...I only saw udoh play in the past couple weeks - looked good to me - but looked to be a perimeter guy in baylors offense - but maybe that was just the duke game

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Rich reply to steve on Apr 2 at 16:23
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I like this one from that post :)

Jodie Meeks - Good size for a two, excellent jumper. Could be a steal late in the first.

Fuck, please tell me those aren't my words.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 2 at 10:18
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You have to go for a big. 7 footers (or close) just don't grow on trees and aren't as easy to find or as plentiful as shooters.

The Sam experiment has gone on for far too long. He really won't be that hard to replace. But replacing him is a must and needs to be done with this sort of high pick. You can get your defensive anchor for the next 4 or 5 years at least. And how hard can it be for a guy to be comparable defensively to Sam but have more of a semblance of an offensive game? Not hard at all.

Anyone can rebound, that is if they have the want-to to do it. Sam's rebounding can't be overvalued. I mean, even a Taj Gibson can average nearly double digit boards a game (or put up several games in a row with double digits). It's all about effort and mindset.

Shot blocking isn't that difficult considering it is mostly weak side anyway. And you're only talking 1 or 2 a game (not to undervalue the importance of them though). Man-on-man and pick-and-roll D is a whole different boat though. That's where system and coaching come in.

So, the only thing left is the sorely-lacking-for-nine-straight-years just a smidgen of an offensive game. And anyone, I mean anyone, can surpass or at worst equal Sam in this category.

Nine years is damn long enough, get his replacement in here and start grooming him. You can find a spot minute/situational shooter undrafted or in the D-League. Morris Almond is toiling down there with a 48% shooting and 38% from three. Give the guy a shot and draft your big. You've filled one immediate hole and maybe two future holes.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 2 at 10:29
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yeah, shooters are real plentiful. as evidenced by the fact that no SGs are lottery picks this year. and as evidenced that we havenet had a good one in 7 years or so

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 10:32
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There's an argument to be made that Evan Turner could be a shooting guard.

The lack of sixer shooters in the past 7 years (doesn't kyle korver count as a good shooter?) may have something more to do with the sixers ability to judge talent than the available abundance of shooters.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 10:38
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yeah, turner is a good shooter, but unrealistic for us.

i guess i was thinking more of a good shooter that is not 1 dimensional. a 1 dimensional shooter is probably easy to find, liek a jason kapono.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 10:43
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Korver isn't a one dimensional shooter, and he's much better than Jason Kapono - is he a starter no - but he was a shooter - a strong sixth man - and he was on the sixers (hell he was drafted when billy king was here) and he was moved (in part) so the sixers could get elton brand...if he was still here maybe brand wouldn't be.

Jrue HOliday has been quite the shooter recently, might not be sustainable, but he looks like a shooter...who knows what thad evolves into next season when he works with a real shooting coach.


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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 10:48
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Yeah we had Kyle Korver, and nothing else to go along with him. That's not enough.

I agree with Eddie, we need to find a replacement for Sam asap. All this talk about whether or not Sam is a good re bounder yesterday is a mute point, because the bottom line on that Shitbag who has robbed the sixers of over 60 million dollars is that you CAN'T WIN WITH HIM.

That is unless you think winning is winning a game or 2 of a first round series. You wan't to tell me that we don't have anyone better then him so we need him. Fuk that, I would talk a box of shiit for that guy.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Apr 2 at 10:55
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A. The point was whether or not the sixers had a shooter in the past 7 years - that's what I responded to - so whether it's moot or not is irrelevant to the greater point. The sixers had a shooter.

B. As I posted yesterday and yet still haven't had an answer from all you sam haters - please find a replacement that can do what sam does as well as sam does defensively, sucks less offensively, and is obtainable for a team that isn't signing free agents until they don't have to pay the luxury tax to do so. Sam's a league average center...

If sam dalembert 'robbed' the sixers of 60 million dollars i have to wonder what the injury prone guys like chandler and eddy curry have been doing...

If you don't think sam is good enough that's great, I've yet to see a name mentioned that could be a sixer who would replace him as good or better for less money.

Height gets you paid in the NBA

Reality is REality

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The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:00
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YOU CAN'T WIN WITH SAMMY D, that's the only thing that matters.

This is his last season as a Sixer unless there dumb enough to resigning him which I don't believe that they are.

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JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Apr 2 at 11:02
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Putting it in capital letters doesn't prove anything - the sixers team that made the playoffs the past two seasons that got people excited did say with Samuel Dalembert.

And actually, since 'this' season isn't over yet, and he's under contract for next year, he'll probably be playing for the sixers cause i don't he resigns from basketball

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:08
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john, you are right, sammy is market value. 100 cents on the dollar was once market value for AAA CDO. some GMs stay away from these contracts , some dont. the fact that sammy's $10mm is the going rate for a 7 ft stiff doesnt make it a winning move. whats the alternative, i would rather throw mark blount in there for 1/2 the cost and play with 2 PFs the rest of the time

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 11:11
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Yup, Mark Blount is making a solid contribution in the NBA right now isn't he?

Sam isn't a prefect basketball player, no one said that (though you keep asserting that people are saying things they aren't) - but he isn't as bad as you want him to be - you seem to hate him personally, maybe he stole your girl, maybe he tried to fix your computer and he couldn't so it made you mad.

The sixers are a better defensive team when Sam is on the floor then when he's off, no matter how you want to try and prove it, the numbers aren't on your side, so you dismiss them out of hand (if they were on your side I'm sure you'd be all over them), that's fine, but if you aren't going to respect the actual evidence that comes from sources other than you - why should your opinion be respected at all?

It goes both ways

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:22
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i never claimed the sixers were better defensively when sammy was on the bench. i stated that i dont consider him a good rebounder. but seriously, stop bringing this up, its over. there is plenty of other stuff to discuss.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 11:24
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It's part of a greater point (which i said already multiple times) but you keep ignoring that fact - and that's fine...it proves the point

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:28
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yep. point proven, john.

I want to preface this post by saying I hate Dalembert, I don't think he'll ever get "it", and I can't wait till he is gone. However, replacing Dalembert is no easy task and those are just the facts.

I picked this argument from a clipper blog (don't ask me why I read it, I have no idea.) Thought it was an effective argument.

LINK: http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/4/23/850319/nba-centers-supply-and-demand

"While Dalembert may seem wildly overpaid in hindsight, it's really just supply and demand. There are not enough quality NBA centers for 30 teams, and consequently almost anyone who shows even reasonable potential gets a nice big massive ridiculous contract. Take a look at the list of NBA centers who played over 700 minutes this season

(700 being an arbitrary number that was low enough to get DeAndre Jordan and Chris Kaman to show up). The list is imperfect - it's missing several players who are essentially centers, but who are not listed as such on Basketball Reference (including for instance Marcus Camby). But it's a good starting point.

Of the 34 names on the list:

•11 of them are on their rookie contracts and have yet to sign an extension, meaning that their salary was mandated by the CBA if they were first round picks, and was even less if they were not a first round pick. When they sign a new contract, they'll no doubt join the ranks of the wildly overpaid.

•3 of them (Shaq, Yao and Dwight Howard) are maximum-type contracts (I say maximum-type because strictly speaking Shaq is allowed to make more than $20M, but it ain't chicken feed). Of the pseudo-center missing from the list, Jermaine O'Neal and Tim Duncan fall into this category as well.
•9 of them make $9M per year or more, but less than the maximum. This is Kaman's peer group. It includes the aforementioned Chandler and Dalembert, and a couple of recently extended youngsters like the Andrew B's (Bogut and Bynum). Emeka Okafor, Nene, Al Jefferson and Eddy Curry are all in this category as well. Of this group, Biedrins looks like he might be a bargain at 6/$54M, and of course Nene defied the odds with a huge season, though at the time he signed his deal it looked like one of the worst of the bunch.
•10 more make between $3M per year and $8M per year. I guess these would qualify as your bargains, and the names include such luminaries as Dan Gazuric ($6.2M this season), DeSagana Diop ($6M) and Zaza Pachulia ($4M). Pachulia and Joel Pzrybilla (a 15.4 PER for a mere $6.4M this season) are the real bargains, such as they are. You could put a few more names like Kwame Brown, Brendan Haywood and Etan Thomas into this group.
•That leaves one veteran NBA center who played more than 700 minutes while making less than $3M this season - Jamaal Magloire. Of course Magloire (like Theo Ratliff and Dikembe Mutumbo and Antoino McDyess and Juwan Howard) falls into a special category of players that were once well paid (or wildly overpaid) who are now doing penance on a veteran's minimum contract. Magloire and all of those other names are former all stars, if you can believe that.

Given that landscape, it's hard to argue that Chris Kaman is overpaid based on his on court productivity. If these are the going rates for seven footers, then seven footers with Kaman's skillset are surely worth at least what the Clippers are paying Mr. Flippy.

But what about those pesky injuries? No one is going to trade for a center who is so injury-prone when he's is still owed $34M, are they?

Again I say, supply and demand.

If you are looking for the supply of skilled seven footers who AREN'T injury prone, the list just got a lot smaller.

Go down the list again (it's sorted in PER order to provide a level set of quality). Yao Ming, Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Andrew Bogut, Nenad Krstic, Tyson Chandler and of course Nene who is not on the list - all just as 'injury-prone' as Kaman, if not more so. And Andris Biedrins is troublingly close to the category at this point as well. The only quality veteran centers in the NBA who could reasonably be called 'durable' are Dwight Howard and Shaq, and let's face it, those guys are in their own category physically. The simple fact of the matter is, big guys get hurt. Their bodies (especially their feet and ankles) take a pounding, and they break down. In fact, over the course of his 6 year career, Kaman has been arguably above average in durability for a center, appearing in over 64 games a season on average. Hell, Marcus Camby gets $2M in bonuses just for making it to 65.

Might his recent injury woes be troubling to a team considering trading for him? Of course it could be an issue. But it's not as if he's undergone major surgery. If Denver was willing to offer Nene a contract of 6/$60M contract in the summer of 2006, following a season in which he missed 81 of the 82 games because of a torn ACL, it's not unreasonable to think that some teams will be undaunted by the ouchie on Kaman's foot.

Don't forget what a tantalizing prospect Chris Kaman is (as if the Citizens of Clips Nation could). Many of the contracts we've been looking at were signed based on potential alone. Some of these guys, particularly Dalembert and Chandler but also Biedrins and Erick Dampier and others, have no discernible skills on offense whatsoever. In sharp contrast, Kaman is the complete package on both ends of the floor, and has actually demonstrated results as opposed to just potential, if only for one injury-shortened season. The list of NBA players to have averaged 15 points, 10 rebounds and 2 blocked shots in any season in the last decade is short and illustrious.

•Shaquille O'Neal
•Tim Duncan
•Dwight Howard
•Yao Ming
•Kevin Garnett
•Elton Brand
•Jermaine O'Neal
•Chris Kaman

That's it. Seven all stars and Mr. Flippy.

Going through this exercise, I'm beginning to think maybe I don't want them to trade the guy. Maybe it's worth holding on to him and hoping that Kaman 2.0 re-appears in a relatively healthy season. But there's certainly no reason to hold a fire sale. The supply of NBA centers with Kaman's skillset is very low - demand should be high enough."


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eddies' heady's reply to Shawn on Apr 2 at 11:26
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Wow. Reads like a whole lot of something saying nothing.

If you draft Udoh especially or maybe Alabi (and I don't care where the mocks say he should go - if he's your guy, you pick him) then there's your replacement for Sam. You say it's no easy task, well, this doesn't seem that hard. You have a high pick, use it wisely.

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JohnEMagee reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 2 at 11:29
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there's no guarantee that either of those two pan out to be as good as sam is right now...maybe they do maybe they don't but right now it's not guaranteed

Alabi still lacks a large degree of coordination and awareness, being unable to track down loose balls in the air and go out of his area to secure extra possessions for his team, and its perhaps here (as well as with his poor passing ability) that these weaknesses show up the most.

That sounds like a guy who has project written all over him

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:33
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geez, that is the worst scounting report ive ever heard. uncoordinated? are you kidding? why on earth do we want someone uncoordinated.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Apr 2 at 11:35
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Per usual, you miss the point, alabai is no guarantee - he's a shot in the dark a upside project that needs a lot of work to even be as good as sam defensively

(Not to mention that he projects much higher in this draft than sam was picked in his)

Alabi is much more of a project than Udoh. I'm not sure Udoh projects to be dominant on either side of the ball, but conversely he should be useful on both sides, which combined with his rare perimeter skills make him intriguing. Alabi probably has more potential on the defensive end.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 2 at 11:36
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can someone name a big man that can be described as uncoordinated that ever panned out to be anything in this league? seriously. you must be fukking joking

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 2 at 11:38
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The question (and sorry AM4 i'm referring to yesterday) that comes up regarding udoh is can his better offense (than Sam) make him a better over all contributor on both ends of the court than Sam is now?

The problem of course is that Sam isn't the only 'issue' on the sixers...is Udoh really a center in the NBA or more of a PF (which the sixers need as well)?

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eddies' heady's reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 11:35
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Malvo - spare me and close the trunk.

Read the first comment I made regarding "as good as Sam is right now".

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 2 at 11:36
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yeah ok. go give some more heady, eddy

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JohnEMagee reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 2 at 11:37
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Mo ( I mean if we're going to make up derogatory names for people, you can be mo, unless you'd rather be curly or larry?)

Wow. Reads like a whole lot of something saying nothing.

If you draft Udoh especially or maybe Alabi (and I don't care where the mocks say he should go - if he's your guy, you pick him) then there's your replacement for Sam. You say it's no easy task, well, this doesn't seem that hard. You have a high pick, use it wisely.

I'm responding to this comment - if i was responding to any other comment you made - you'd know so by the fact that it was underneath that comment...

But hey - why should a little thing like sense get in the way of your ranting right?

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eddies' heady's reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 13:42
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At what point do you ever NOT respond to other's comments?

If they ever had an award for message board whore you'd win it hands down. Along with your trophy of Internet tough-guy.

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The Greek reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 2 at 11:30
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I agree with everything that you just wrote, but I want to include Aldrich on that list.

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Shawn reply to The Greek on Apr 2 at 11:39
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As an aside:

Is your name related to the Wire? or are you just greek?

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The Greek reply to Shawn on Apr 2 at 11:45
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lol no I am Greek. I was asked the same thing about a year ago and then I went out and downloaded all 5 seasons of the wire to see who the Greek was. Loved season 1,2,3,4. 5 was joke

Getting back to Brian's initial post...So where do you guys see this team long term?

If we are dumping/losing Sam summer and maybe trading away Iguodala what is left? Are we officially 5 years away from even being competitive?

PG: Jrue. Lou back-up (although could be traded)

SG: No Starter. ? Meeks as future back up. Green gone this summer or next.

SF: Iguodala maybe gone. Thad ? starter potential. carney ? gone

PF: Brand below NBA average. Speights? Thad?

C: Sam gone this summer or next./ ? Speights. Smith a bum.

So sounds like they could need as many as 4 upgrades at starter and 2-3 upgraded reserves. This on a team with 1 draft pick and over the tax for next year.

On the other hand, if Sam, Green and Iguodala are all gone by next summer they will open up a fair share of cap space to start remaking the roster. But with all of those holes, it really sounds like they are in the very starting stages of a long rebuild. One that won't be near completion for 3 years- taking us past the Brand and Lou contracts.

On the flip side, they could maybe do a patch job if they keep Iguodala and Sam. But the only way that is worthwhile is if they somehow land a star with their #1 pick.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 12:30
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Well - let's ask this - how close do you think they are to being competitive now (not just losing a first round series but competing for a place in the conference finals) years wise - with no cap room - or serious trade pieces outside Iguodala and Holiday?

If they do nothing major aside from draft picks and using cap space in Summer 2011 (likely just MLE) then they probably are about 5-6 years away unless Jrue/Speights/Thad/Lou surprise us with their development.

I base this on players developing and then using the cap space from Lou and Brand in 4 years to add an impact piece.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 13:02
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So it seems either way you look at it (you specially) trading away Igoudala and Dalembert doesn't do anything to really make the development curve any longer? It's 5 years or so either way?

Just trying to understand, cause if you think they're the same distance away from contending with or without moving Iguodala/Sam, then moving them makes more sense - no?

You know what I would prefer they do... but that is mission impossible.

There are 2 ways to look at it.

1. Blowing it up (Iguodala/Sam) would allow for a truly fresh start. They would be a bottom 5 team next year, but in a more understandable way then this past season. They would have a long road, but at least they would have a direction, and their best players would be 20/22/23/24.

2. Keeping Iguodala gives you a shot at a sudden turn-around if a superstar emerges from the draft or the roster in the next 2 years. Iguodala is in his prime, entertaining and is a great piece to have. Sam is a solid piece that would require using a draft pick to replace that might otherwise get you a start SG. And keeping Iguodala/Sam makes the team at least respectable, which is bad for the draft but good for the eyes.

The other shortcut would be winning the lottery this summer or next.

Now if they blow it up they still likely are looking at 4+ years as well, but it would probably be a more entertaining 4 years because they would be showing progress.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 13:19
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Well if the sixers win the lottery - or even get evan turner - yes that changes things - but the 'probable' outcome is that they pick around where they are supposed to pick (maybe one pick less)

I actually agree with you that either way they're the same distance away from contending so I'd trade iguodala myself (and sam)

I see your reasoning, and would be fine with it. But at this point I guess I could see goimg in either direction.

Iguodala and Jrue seem like two really complementary pieces. And together the maximize Sam's positives. So its hard to rationalize dumping 2/3rds of a decent core of starters. Especially when you will have to invest dearly to replace them.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 13:29
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Well the nice thing is tht they don't have to decide right away - they've got some time - i'd say by the trade deadline in 2011 is the drop dead date for both - by then they need to have an idea where they're going with their current roster - gives Speights and Thad time to get their act together, the 2010 draft pick to play some...

My 'directive' to the new coach in the 2011 season would be to make sure the young guys play to see what they have - none of this sitting a rookie for his own psyche nonses

Other thing - yes jrue and andre are complimentary - but if you see 4-5 years as the 'target' goal - will they be complimentary in 4-5 years - will andre iguodala 'age well' - his game will it age well in the next 4- 5 years?

I think Iguodala will fall off a cliff unless his midrange jumper becomes reliable. But that cliff could be age 29 or it could be 32. he is 26, so its likely he stays at near this level through the remainder of his contract. But 5 years... that's a long way from now.

But still, in my limited view its all about finding a superstar. then its likely you will have to turn over the roster to find the right complementary pieces. Just like how the entire roster was changes 2 years after AI was picked.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 2 at 13:40
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Yeah, finding a superstar would be nice, but depending on that is rather difficult - unless of course super lucky come playoff time (cause the lottery is during like the conference finals right?)

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Tom Moore on Apr 2 at 12:59
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Injury update:

Young will miss Saturday's game, his ninth in a row.

Carney is a game-time decision, while Williams is expected to play after sitting out the past five.

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JohnEMagee on Apr 2 at 14:03
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All these players on non playoff teams shutting down with their injuries so as not to risk further aggravation...interesting

You don't want a nagging injury to cut into their summer plans. better to heal up while the season is still going :)

I think that the guy at the 2/3 who can shoot/defend is much more glaring than the big. This is for a couple of reasons: 1. Sammy and EB are not an all-star duo, but I believe with a set rotation and system that gets EB the ball in better places, they can be an average NBA frontcourt. 2. Conversely, our guys at opposite Iggy (Kapono, Willie, Lou, Thad) are not up to par. I think it would benefit Jrue in the long run to start building chemistry with a shooter next year than a big. He already does a good job with EB and Sammy, who don't score enough off his feeds, but seem to find open shots.

The problem is the only guy in the draft who reminds me of shooter/defender is Wes Johnson, who is probably going to go 4th or 5th. Problem is, we won't be able to pick in those spots. I don't know if Turner, who "needs to add consistency to his long-range jump shot" (per ESPN), even fits the Sixers perfect mold. So I think that you have to go for best player and take Favors, but I could see the Johnson argument. Thing is, Favors would be filling a need, Turner and Wall really wouldn't.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Apr 2 at 14:50
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Turner can still improve and is neither and Iguodala (nor brandon roy) clone and would be fine between jrue and iguodala i bet - which is another need

I dount Jrue/Turner/Iguodala is a good long term fit since all three do best off the dribble breaking their men down. Its better to have a mix of ball dominant and off the ball types of players.

But who cares. Turner projects to be potential All-Star. You can always shuffle the deck later.

Depends on whether you think Iguodala's best as a 17-6-5 guy relied upon to create in the half-court or an ultra-efficient, great-defending 14-6-4 guy who's opportunistic in the half court.

I don't see much sense in trying to get another perimeter scorer to build around a flawed half-court player (Iguodala). I'm more interested in finding that guy to build around in the half-court. With Jrue's 3 pt shot developing I think we have a little more flexibility than we previously had.

Agree- I would rather build around Turner than Iguodala. But you don't have to trade Iguodala right away.

I think Turner would be a great fit defensively (He's a plus defender from all I've read). With a good coach, the flexibility of that 1-3 would be scary defensively.

Offensively, I've heard Turner comparisons to Brandon Roy, and I see it in how they carry themselves. Still, hes not as good of a shooter, and his form is a little iffy. Consistency is the biggest thing with his shots, because at pressure time I've seen him make some huge ones. It would depend on him becoming a plus shooter (He can improve) and Iguodala's willingness to hand over the keys to Turner. Offensive identity with Jrue, Iggy, and Turner would be difficult because all like the ball in their hands. Derek makes a nice point about the flexibility that Jrue's jump shot provides.

Iguodala may be handed "the keys" next year regardless.

Sorry, meant to say Jrue...

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Apr 2 at 21:40
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"It would depend on him becoming a plus shooter (He can improve) and Iguodala's willingness to hand over the keys to Turner."

IMO, no matter who comes in here, Dre will never hand anything over. His ego won't allow him. So we would be better off short term (taking lumps and freeing up money and getting different players to hopefully build around) and definitely long term (more chemistry developed, someone rising up to accept the go-to guy mantle that can actually fulfill it).

I love the guy and what he can bring but his mentality just seems to be a roadblock since he got that contract. Maybe it wasn't the contract, maybe it was the franchise pushing him to the forefront as the 'face' of it. But it's blown him up in a bad way and just like when Iverson painfully made his exit, we'll be better off for it when he does eventually go.

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johnrosz on Apr 2 at 17:04
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I haven't heard anyone talk much about the Euro players on here. Any interest in Veseley or Motejunus? I read that Daryl Morey is very high on Veseley, hes a GM i have a lot of respect for. Hollinger seems high on him a well. If we're looking at "projects" with our draft pick just wondering if its worth a shot to take a look at someone from overseas...

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deepsixersuede reply to johnrosz on Apr 2 at 18:54
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I like Vesely but it seems his jumper needs work and I keep hearing "role player" when he is talked about. If Iggy and Sam are moved this summer than drafting Davis, years away, or a foreign player, and keeping him overseas, would make sense.

Aname listed recently in the first round is D.Orton, Cousins teammate, if Derek has an opinion it would be great and D.Pittman has fallen off the planet. Does anybody think Beasley can be the athletic, physical 4 that they wanted Thad to be? He may be gettable if Bosh goes to Miami this summer.

A lineup of Beasley, Iggy, Sammy, Henry and Jrue could really be fun to watch but could he be the batman to Iggy!s robin?

I agree completely that the Euros have been somewhat forgotten. Being a "EURO" myself i may me a little biased but i think at least one of those two turns out to be an allstar. Vesely probably has better upside but is a long term project without a well defined position on the court. Motiejunas on the other hand projects pretty much the same way Nowitzki, Barnagni and Yi Jianlian were projected before they were drafted. I listed all three because i think those are the three potential outcomes for Motiejunas. A Nowitzki type player is a no-brainer, while Yi we do not like. The question is would we take a guy like Barnagni at 7 lets say? I'd say why not...

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The Greek on Apr 2 at 22:09
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If we could trade Iggy to the Grizzies for Mayo and whatever I would do that in a heartbeat!!!!!!

C. Wallace please offer us the same dumb trade that you offered to the even dumber Warriors GM who declined it... (reminder: Ellis for Mayo and Thabeet). We'll send you Iggy in a heartbeat....


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