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My Top Seven

I don't think Wall and Jrue can coexist. Jrue's ceiling involves him having the ball and getting assists. Wall might be a little bit of a hybrid, but he is much more of a pure point than a scoring two. Wall is a dominating passer as well, but he really needs the ball to do his damage. That's why he shows the skill to take over a game when he needs to scoring wise: He still has the ball when he's passing to his teammates. That's how he can gauge a game (one of his best qualities), because he is running the show.

Also, Wall's jumper is not excellent, and he is not exactly a need or perfect fit for the Sixers. I think Turner is the 2nd best player and he's not far behind Wall, so I think he's too good to pass up. That's basically the argument for taking Wall. It's basically based on where you decide to start taking need over best player available. Favors and Turner both fit needs for this team, but I still think it's more of a 2 person top tier rather than Wall by himself.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Apr 12 at 11:24
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You don't pass on John Wall because of Jrue Holiday - if they can't co-exist i'm sure you'll find many takers for jrue Holiday

Again, someone passedo n Michael Jordan cause they were already set at that position.

John Wall is far and away the best talent in this draft and seen by many as better with more upside than derrick rose

Ask yourself this - would you swap rose for holiday straight up?

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Ryan F reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 12 at 11:59
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Nope

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 12 at 11:59
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I think Turner is almost as good as Wall. Never did I say that Wall would or should not be taken first. I said that I don't think he and Jrue can coexist. Wall is not a perfect fit, but I see why you still take him.

That being said, I think Turner is right behind Wall in talent. I think he's too good to pass up at 2 where Brian originally slotted Favors. I believe that there is a top tier with only two guys, and then Favors is a notch below. If you are arguing the best talent far and away with Wall, then why not do the same with Turner at 2. I'm much more comfortable with Turner at 2 than Favors, that's all.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Apr 12 at 12:02
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Turner is behind Wall in talent, and age...

But then again - one agent says Wall might not be #1 and it won't be Turner either

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlhSU7yOtl5gK.Rdn.W_HJa8vLYF?slug=aw-cousinsagent040810

Passing on Wall because of Jrue Holiday is short sighted, kind of like the team that passed on Jordan cause he played the same position and it's overly optimistic or does everyone forget what happened 2 years after Thaddeus young had a great half season?

You don't pass on John Wall...the sixers aren't that close to contending or that talented to pass on such an obvious talent.

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Rich reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 12 at 12:09
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That's fine, I never disagreed with that once. My point was about Wall and Jrue not being able to play together and Turner being too good to pass up at 2.

Yes.

After five I have no clue what this team should do. It could be a situation where trading down a few slots if you know your guy will still be there might get you another asset later on.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 12 at 11:24
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Yeah, didn't Minnesota try to do that last year and couldn't?

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deepsixersuede on Apr 12 at 7:35
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If we get the #1, I would immediately put it and Jrue up for bid to see the best scenerio for rebuilding this team; the problem is the teams probably right behind us have p.g.!s and may not bite. [N.J. , Minn., Gold. St.?]. A C.Lee/Favors for #1 would intrigue me as would a Love/Turner or A.Randolph/Turner package but if that can!t happen than I take Favors and go from there. I take Johnson after the first 3 and Aldrich over Cousins at 5. Whether Speights is part of this teams core will determine who we pick at #6 on down. If he is than Davis,Udoh and Vesely [best defenders] would have to be considered along with Cousins.

If Spieghts isn!t thought of highly than at #6 it comes down to Cousins or Monroe for me. Both offer different games at the 5 but the thought of a highpost 5 that creates offense intrigues the hell out of me and I am not sure Cousins will overpower people in the N.B.A..

Wall is a special talent. If you have the oppportunity to get him you don't think twice about it. Players will want to play with him and fans will come out to watch him play. Besides him, not sure. Turner looks to me to be a 20 plus scorer in the league. I've seen many players like Cousins come into the league and become role playing centers. Depends on his work ethic. Haven't seen Favors. Like the skills that Johnson & Udoh have. Aminu sounds like an athletic freak but I guess he has much developing to do. Let's get lucky.

1. John Wall
2. Derrick Favours
3. Evan Turner
4. Wesley Johnson
5. DeMarcus Cousins
6. Gordon Hayward
7. Cole Aldrich

lol Gordon Hayward at 6? Wow pass

1. John Wall
2. Turner
3. Favors
now it gets tricky
4. Wesley Johnson
5. Demarcus Cousins
6. Cole Aldrich
7. Donatas Motiejunas

Not a big Cousins fan at all, but dunno if you can afford to pass him up at 5 just for what he can become(highly dobut he becomes that tho). Might even bump him lower.

I agre that Cousins should make the top 5. Even if he did not work out he will have good trade value based on his size and skills alone. So best case he becomes a star and worse case you can recoup your value in a trade.

Basically, Cousins might have issues that keep him from being a winner, but he has zero bust potential. Which you cannot say for the other players slotted #6-15.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 12 at 14:00
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So best case he becomes a star and worse case you can recoup your value in a trade.

No - I don't buy that - the more he plays in the NBA and doesn't mature or grow as a player or human being - the less his trade value should become - as opposed to his value on draft night.

The value of the #5 pick was Mike Miller and Randy Foye last season, right?

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Apr 12 at 14:12
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Um, yeah, and was that 'good' value for the wizards? Two mediocre players?

I think the contention that Cousins will 'maintain' his value just isn't tenable, once a player plays in the NBA his value is not where he was drafted but how he plays, either well or poorly, his value is affected by his play.

And saying cousins has zero bust potential is ridiculous -anyone with so many behavior warning flags has bust potential when you factor in what happens when he has a lot of money and hits the age of 21. Cousins has HUGE bust potential.

He has marbury like bust potential...

I assume that Cousins will be a wide body 6'11 center who can score and rebound. He will have a lot of value until someone gives him a mega-deal after his rookie deal.

Guys with size, talent who are on their rookie deals have good value.

Do you think Beasley has value right now?

Beasley is a tweener. Guys like taht are either superstars (like Barkley) or misfits (like Beasley and Thad.)

Cousins will be one of the biggest and strongest centers in the league... at age 19. He could turn into a monster. But his floor is still a valuable full-sized center who has great hands and rebounds.

And failures like Traylor and Stanley Roberts were short and fat. Cousins is tall and wide. Even if he carried too much weight he would be effective.

Look at the absolute worst case scenario: another Curry. Cousins will be a better rebounder than Curry... and Curry had a ton of value during the total duration of his rookie deal. Only after he signed his mega extension did his value become negative.

The Knicks paid a pretty penny for him, wasn't that after his contract expired?

What if Cousins measures 6'10" or less in the combine?

I want to see his reach. he has a huge frame, and looks to have long arms. I think there is no question he will be bigger and stronger than most NBA centers once he fills out. Dwight Howard measured 6'9" pre-draft... and Cousins has a bigger frame than Howard at that age. (Howard has freak athleticism to go with his size, so they are not in the same league- but Cousins has a much more refined offensive game.)

I'm not saying I want Cousins on the Sixers. I just would not let him slip past #4 or 5.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm just trying to figure out if he's unquestionably a five in the pros.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 12 at 14:35
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You're purely looking at physical make up - and that's great - but that's why there are so many draft busts (in my opinion) in that physical make up blinds people to major character flaws...i'm not saying cousins has fractured crater like character flaws that can't be fixed, but he's got tons of warning flags.

He probably has the highest risk and reward level of anyone at that area of the draft...sure he could be great, or he could make a lot of money really quick and get fat lazy and stupid

Mareese Speights doesn't make lots of money and he got fat quick.

I agree that long term he can be a waste of talent. Giving him a contract extension will be a big risk unless he clears up these issues.

i just don't think drafting him at #5 is a big risk, given he will be on a rookie deal, and none of the other guys on the board come close to giving you what cousins gives.

Guys like Whiteside are 6'10, 220 with issues. They are not true centers like Cousins. And Cousins productivity was off the charts. His per was 34... only Turner at 30 was even close amongst major prospects.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 12 at 14:57
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Kentucky's SOS this year wasn't exactly earth shattering - it was good - but come on - College PER compared to the NBA?

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Kentucky

As much as people like to joke about it - the nets would pummel every college team there is - sure kentucky had a lot of NBA players, but most teams have 2 at best...the level of competition cousins faced was well below what he'll face next year - so his per is not something i'm all that interested in looking at (though ESPN is so they can milk more from that number that they shameless promote)

A rookie can lose a lot of value in 2 years...if he is one of the get fat and lazy folk

I understand how college PER does not translate to NBA PER. By why can't you compare college players by his productivity.

My point was that Cousins put up big numbers on a top team (much like Turner), while some of the other red-flag guys either played on marginal D1 teams (Marshal) or put up comparatively weak production.

Some productive college players are busts (Beasley might be a bust.) But usually their position does not translate to the NBA (guard or big that is too small for how they play.) Other busts were guys who never went to college or were just athletic freaks.

Cousins reminds me most of Sheed in terms of future. they have different games, but both are skilled bigs with loads of talent and competitiveness but also bad attitudes. I guess CWebb and Coleman also fit the mold.

Did anyone watch a lot of Kentucky games this season? Why were Cousins' minutes so low? Deep team, blowouts, or was it foul trouble and/or conditioning?

They have 2 other bigs who will be #1 picks this year in Patterson and Orton.

Not sure if anybody's seen this video yet, but it's pretty funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmFuF3yoq3k

Another way to approach a #7-#10 pick, if that's what it turns out to be, is to trade it for future picks, trade Iguodala, and be REALLY terrible next year so that they can make a serious run at the lottery and Harrison Barnes in 2011. The worst thing to do would be to get slightly better next year.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind it if they got a good defensive coach who could get the most out of the current group; that would certainly hold my interest more in the meantime.

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JohnEMagee reply to Statman on Apr 12 at 14:47
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The 2011 draft is very iffy in terms of if it might ever happen and 'tanking' to get a player by having the worst record doesn't really guarantee it - you still have better odds of not getting the #1 pick then getting it.

If Iguodala helps them rid themselves of Brand - fine - trade him...if you wanna blow it up - do so - but giving up the pick this year is silly unless it rids the team of brands contract

Hmmm interesting views in the comments. This is my top 7 and they are slightly different from th rest.

1. Wall (no - brainer)
2. Favors (only because i have the feeling that he is the next big thing)
3. Turner (he is a steal at number 3)
4. Cousins (too talented to pass on)
5. Motiejunas (much better than generally thought of)
6. W. Johnson (looks like a great ROLE player)
7. Vesely (tremendous upside and good defense)

Just missing the cut: Whiteside, Aminu, Henry

A few comments on my picks:

First of Holiday and Wall CAN NOT coexist. They are both PGs by nature and although they can hold their own on the defensive end, the offense will struggle. If we land the No.1, Jrue as great as he has been has to go.
I have the feeling that Favors has the makings of a superstar. And he'd be a great running buddy for Holiday.
Turner is the safest pick out there (allstar on a good team).
Cousins will be good make no mistake about it. The problem is he is the next in line of the Rasheed Wallace, Zach Randolph breed.
Motiejunas is a better version of Barnagni which is very useful in todays NBA.
Johnson will be a very good 3-4 best players on a very good team. I just think he'd be a perfect pick if we had a superstar. Without it he is one of many.
Vesely is the european dark horse in this draft. At the very least he's a very good role player. At best he can be a multiple allstar.

Of the rest Whiteside, Aminu and Henry have to be mentioned because hey are the only other guys with star potential and we desperately need one.

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JohnEMagee reply to Xsago on Apr 12 at 15:03
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5. Motiejunas (much better than generally thought of)

Just out of curiosity - how much have you seen him play? I mean there aren't tons of euro games broadcast in the US - so I'm trying to determine what sort of base of knowledge you are coming from to say he's much better than generally thought of.

I've seen him a few times (far from enough but still...). He is well regarded here in Europe though and i think he's more mobile and a better rebounder than Barnagni. He needs to add a lot of strength though and he's more of a PF than a C despite his height. The team that drafts him should take Dalas as an example of how to approach his development (start from SF and slowly move him towards PF). As a C he will never be able to bang with other strong Cs.

But most importantly of all i think the fact that he's Lithuanian speak for himself. They really are a special nation when it comes to basketball. He comes from the totally opposite background to Milicic if you can understand what i am trying to say.

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JohnEMagee reply to Xsago on Apr 12 at 15:24
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Yeah, i get what you're saying, you have cultural issues festering that help you form your opinions of players...i understand

I said that as a positive sign for his future work ethic and off - court behavior. I never judged anyone... When you actually live here you'll understand the differences...

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JohnEMagee reply to Xsago on Apr 12 at 15:39
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In general I try not to generalize anyone based on ethnic stereotyping - good or ad - i suppose if you've never been a victim of such idiocy you wouldn't understand - i have been a victim of it - so I'll try to ignore the statements, but again, you have no extra insight into the player other htan seeing him play a few games

One of the things that DX does really well (almost to excess I think) is scout the Euros - so i'm going to go with their opinion as being more well formed an unbiased

Sorry if I insulted you in any way it wasn't my intention. And i am not trying to stereotype at all (i've been a victim of it myself).

Anyway i agree that DX does a very good job of scouting Euro players, so you can base your opinion on their reports.

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Apr 12 at 17:17
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I don't think its irrational to comment on Euro ball on country specific basis (Euro ball in general is taught differently, and there is a definite cultural influence on playing style from nation to nation). However, it is irrational to accuse someone of having "cultural issues" based on your own absud inferences. You say you don't generalize which is complete bullshit, your entire argument is brash and ill conceived based on one harmless statement.

You can say someone from Lithuania is a plus without it being ethnic stereotyping. Not all countries in Europe are equal in terms of their youth basketball. Growing up in a better basketball climate playing against better competition can be a positive without it being stereotyping.

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JohnEMagee reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 12 at 16:24
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Actually it was the back handed shots at darko that bothered me

Darko was raised in a war torn country. I doubt there was great structured basketball before he turned pro at age 16. And he was best known for jumping over a car.

People routinely talk about how players from Africa miss out on good organized ball growing up. I don't know how different that would be compared to growing up in "war torn Serbia."

Perhaps an interesting indicator is the fact that he is getting around 20min per game for a solid team in the Italian League under the same coach (if i am not mistaken) that coached Jennings last year and played him sporadically at best.

On another note Veselys' club Partizan made the Euroleague final Four so i guess we'll have a chance to see him on the big stage.

I really like G.Hayward's all around game('D' & 'O') in the tournament. He really puts pressure on the defense; Seems he could handle some point. Not sure about his true size/length? Also, didn't see him knock down 3's with consistancy. I guess at best he'll be drafted in the teens.

I'll be shocked if he falls past the Pacers.

He shouldn't be drafted in the top 20 IMO.

But, with the way people (both fans and decision makers) overrated tournament performance, it wouldn't surprise me.

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sfw reply to Brian on Apr 12 at 16:41
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He seems to have instinct sorely lacking on this Sixers team!

Well, I mean he did miss two potential game-winners in the final seconds of the finals game. That would be enough for most Sixers fans to say he's completely unclutch.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Apr 12 at 16:46
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Ah yes hayward, this years tournament bounce player - a guy not even sniffing the top end of the lottery who suddenly gets there after just six games...let's hope the sixers are smarter than Chad Ford.

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johnrosz reply to sfw on Apr 12 at 17:23
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INTANGIBLES...I say draft Heywerd and then bring in Tim Tebow for a workout, could give us some quality minutes at the forward. Great leader,proven winner.

Speaking of shooting wing players, could Kyle Singler be a taller version of Kyle Korver? Gotta be a role in the NBA for him.

There's apparently a role in the NBA for Willie Green, Jason Kapono and Jason Smith. That has to give hope to every middling prospect out there, right?

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sfw reply to Brian on Apr 12 at 17:13
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Yep!

I wish I was a little bit taller. I wish I were a baller...

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Apr 12 at 17:23
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White kids aren't hyphy

and now for something completely different, featuring an old phriend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GIEHPGj9sI


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