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Pressing Questions - 5/7

1. I wouldn't do it even if we kept out pick.

2. I can't imagine any team in the tp 3 would offer it up for Iguodala (except maybe if the Jazz had #3 and offered it + Kirolenko for Iguodala + Green.)

That said, I'd trade Iguodala for a top 3 pick in a second. The pick might not turn out to be as good as Iguodala, but you would have them under a rookie contract.

The hypothetical I came up with was Detroit gives us #3 and Ben Gordon for Iguodala. Best case then you'd have a starting lineup of:

Jrue, Gordon, W. Johnson, Favors/Brand, Cousins/Dalembert. Depending on who you took at #3.

Good discussion questions, have not had a chance to listen to the podcast yet. I'll give them a shot

The 1st one is a damn hard question. Arenas is a toxic contract. The question really is whether or not Favors(or Cousins) worth riding out the rest of Gilbert's monster deal. It lasts for the same length as Iguodala's for about 30 million more. So, that year, you would potentially have a bunch of cap space.

Let's say you get Favors, you would conceivably have a lineup of Jrue, Zero, Dala, Brand & Favors with a bench of Lou, Speights, Thad & Meeks. Very offensive oriented with 3 plus defenders(Jrue, Dala & Favors). If Arenas actually is 75% of what he used to be, he would be the #1 option in the halfcourt who can also stretch the floor for Dala & Jrue on their drives. Much like we saw with Kapono, that super threat from beyond really helps those 2 out.

But, really this deal is about the future. Before I'd do this deal, I'd double check whether or not there will be another Amnesty deal with the new CBA. If there is a strong possibility, I might pull the trigger.

#2 - I'd only do that deal if Turner is still on the board at 3. Although coming out of this draft with Favors and Johnson is really intriguing, I would need to get Turner to give up Dala. I would then use the 6 pick on a Big(Between Udoh, Aldrich, Cousins, depending on whose available).

Say you make the Arenas deal. You could maneuver things so Brand is already off the books, Iguodala and Arenas are both expiring when you have just cap holds for Jrue and Favors/Cousins, plus three more first round picks on rookie contracts.

So much depends on the CBA, but that could potentially be a huge, huge year. It would also be the first unrestricted free agency year for all of the guys who were drafted last season (Curry, Tyreke, Blake Griffin, etc). But until then, it might be ugly.

My main concern would be making sure Arenas doesn't turn the whole team crazy and have any kind of influence at all on Jrue and any of the other young players. I'd consider buying him out.

Exactly. It is risky as all hell. There is a chance that Arenas' crazy might be contagious. We would need a very strong personality as the coach, like Avery Johnson or Thibodeau. Someone who can steer the ship and keep everybody in line. But, you could muddle through and build the team right so that during that year where you would have at least 35 million expiring deals, you could make a play to support the prime of Jrue and Favors/Cousins with the ideal complementary piece.

Jeff reply to Brian on May 7 at 2:04

"My main concern would be making sure Arenas doesn't turn the whole team crazy and have any kind of influence at all on Jrue and any of the other young players."

That's probably what would happen. Himself, along with his contract is toxic.

On a much lesser note, can you imagine the dumb comments from Philly fans.."First we bring Vick here, now Arenas..."

I am a very big AI9 fan BUT I would do either or both deals. Only condition on AI9 deal is the other team MUST take Willie Green!

I would do the deal for Arenas knowing we can always buy him out if needed but we get a franchise player. If it is the #1 pick, it is a no brainer IMO.

From this point on, Willie's contract is an asset, not something we're trying to pawn off. Depending on how the CBA discussions go, contracts that expire after this season could become very, very valuable to teams.

Opps, you are right. I forgot it was an expiring! My only concern is they will extend him so I still think I would trade him!

I would do the second option if we got a top two pick. Turner or Wall plus Aminu would be a good draft, fulfilling two (say if we got Turner) positions of need. I'd hate to see Iguodala go, but you really can't pass up this deal.

1. No way!!! I'm not even willing to discuss it.
2. YES!!! I like Igoudala a lot, but this one is no-brainer IMO, unless we wind up with e really really bad contract (e.g. Arenas)

I would do #2, not #1 BUT I was trying to come up with a scenario where we could get Minny's #2 & #16(projected) for our #6 and a combination of players. Maybe we give them Thad & #6 for #2 & #16 and we take back Gomes who has a longer contract? Any thoughts? Minny could use Turner at small forward. So, I don't see this happening.

Yeah, they need Turner. I'm wondering what happens if they wind up picking #1 or #3. Can they possibly draft a third PG high in the lottery in back to back seasons? And at #3, do they take Wes Johnson, or do they take Favors/Cousins and further crowd their front court?

I doubt they move the #2 pick, I think it's more likely they'd be willing to move down if they got #1 or #3.

sfw reply to Brian on May 7 at 10:59

Good point! If I'm the Sixers, I do it for the #3, also.

sfw reply to sfw on May 7 at 11:06

If Minny gets the #3 pick and we are at #6, we would be very compatible trading partner.

Yeah, it would depend on (a) if they're really interested in Favors/Cousins and (b) if the guy they're targeting has a chance of falling to #6, or if there are a couple of guys they'd be happy grabbing at #6.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 7 at 11:34

Yes, the can draft a point guard #1 when it's john fracking wall

Rubio isn't in the league yet and while good his draft rights have value and people would love to have them...a good gm doesn't makes crap when he is handed the #1 pick REGARDLESS of his roster, a good GM takes advantage of the opportunity (not to mention that there are many who don't think that the guys on the t'wolves roster this year are 'real' point guards, just playing point guard)

Someone thinks Jonny Flynn is a 5'10" shooting guard?

I'm not saying they shouldn't take Wall. I'm saying Kahn was basically turned into a laughing stock last year for drafting two PGs, so there's a chance he may not take a third. It's not the smart move, but I think it's a possible move.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 8:47

I probably would do #2 but not #1. Favors and Johnson are too good to pass up.

JohnEMagee on May 7 at 9:26

WOuldn't do #1, maybe you could 'maneuver' brand off the books sooner than later, but maybe not, plus there are players in the NBA I don't want to root for - Gilbert is one of them - I dont think it's a smart move

And no I wouldn't trade Iguodala for #3

I'd trade him for #2 or #1 but not #3 (and i presume you stopped with 3 on purpose)

No, I was really looking for the threshold of the top three. Would you move him for Wall? Would you move him for Turner? Would you move him for Favors? If you do move him, would you take Favors over Cousins with the #3? Those types of questions.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 7 at 11:33

I would move him for turner and wall much more easily than for favors/cousins chance...BUT i would not move in a straight up swap - even with the pick - the #2 pick alone is not enough for andre iguodala and the #6 in my opinion

The idea was we wouldn't be giving up the #6 pick in this scenario. For example, Detroit gets #2, would you trade Iguodala for Gordon and #2? How about Gordon and #3? GSW is another example. Iguodala for Maggette or Biedrins and pick #1-#3. Would you make that deal in some form?

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 7 at 11:44

Ugh - so trading Iguodala for Evan Turner (or cousins/favors) and a bench player and STILL keeping #6 (sorry - ben gordon is a bench player in my book, so's maggette, i mean isn't he one of the worst players in the league when it gets down to it, and biedrins is so broken he makes thad look like a superstar right now)

I guess I'd tink about it if they are keeping the 6, but i guess it would depend on how things are shaking out - if a guy like johnson might slip to 6 i'm much more in favor of it i then if the sixers are thinking about cole aldrich at 6 :)

However, I would make NO trades for Gilbert Areanas unless he immediately retires...

I do like the idea of having:

Pick #3: Favors(or Cousins)(19)
Pick #6: Aminu(19) or Johnson(22)

Sure, those pieces do not fit... but they all have value and are easy to flip later when you are closer to contending. All of those players should be improving over the next 2-3 years.

So you target 3 years from now (when Brand is an expiring) to hopefully be a good team that can make the jump to contention. If not, you at least have valuable pieces and flexibility of 2 seasons of large expiring contracts. And Gordon should be at least a solid contributor throughout his contract.

I can sort of see the long term thinking in #1 assuming we are stockpiling some great 19-21 year olds now, and then in 3 years using those bloated vet contracts as an asset. But I don't know how a team can absorb players for some possible benefit 3 years down the road. Even ignoring the tax implications, teams just don't make moves like that when they are rebuilding.

I do see the advantage of taking on an over-payed vet for a year when you have cap space and can extract a #1 pick. But to take a felon with 3 years, 60 M left seems crazy.

JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on May 7 at 9:34

And if trade for gilbert, you kind of have to play gilbert, and how would he affect the development of all those great younger guys (see Iguodala with Iverson for a good example)

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's like instead of a quick fix, you're applying a slooooooooooooooooowwwww fix.

Here's a question for you, Jrue, Arenas, Iguodala, Favors/Brand, Dalembert. Is that a playoff team next season if Arenas is out of the halfway house and somewhat healthy?

In the East, making the playoffs is setting the bar very low. You need 50 wins and a good team in the West. But in the East you need some health and good chemistry.

Next year's team with no changes could make the playoffs if thing fall their way. So sure, the line-up you list could easily win 40 games. Not sure if that is a good thing. If they win a bunch more I want that to be due to young guys, not some 20M vets getting their second wind. I'd rather have another top 7 pick than that scenario.

Unless they make some trades actively seeking to get worse and/or find a coach as bad as Edward Jordan, I don't think we're in for another high lottery pick next season.

Although I'm not sure how that fits as a response to your comment, but whatever. It's Friday.

1. Iguodala trade
2. Sam trade
3. Any type of injury

...Bottom 5 record.

Are you saying if any of the three happens, or if all three happen?

At least the 1st two for the team to be headed back to a sub 30 win season.

Hmmn, I'd adjust it a little before I'd agree.

1. Trade Iguodala
2. Trade Sam
3. Serious injury to Sam, Iguodala or Jrue.

Any of those happen, you're probably right. The first two fall into "actively trying to make the team worse" in my book, unless they get some kind of unbelievable return on either or both.

All 3 and you might be looking at the Nets 2.0. Jrue is not exactly carrying you to 30+ wins by himself at age 20.

#2 sounds good... Iggy for Favors and Wes would be too good to pass up.

Sam Mitchell is the next up for an interview. I'll have some thoughts and a poll up late this afternoon. Here's the link.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 11:47

Willie continues to screw us; according to the espn trade machine he is untradeable on draft night, because of a partial nonguarenteed maybe?

He has a player option, so I believe he'd have to pick it up before he can be traded.

LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Dirk, Amare...none of those guys can be traded either. It stops teams from trading someone, then all of a sudden they opt out.

Kapono is in the same boat.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 11:54

Guys, do these coaches, during an interview, come in with a list of requests? R oster wise as in "your not moving Iggy this summer? "

You have to figure ES lays out some of the possibilities.

Like last year he would say: How do you make Lou/Iguodala/Brand work. This year he might need to throw out several possibilities.

deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on May 7 at 12:02

Do you think thr read-react offense is stopping Turner from being considered because of what happened this year?

Good question.

I do think Iguodala and Jrue's strengths are isolation and drawing defenders to break down a defense. Not many teams have two pass first players who can do that. And the team lacks shooters with range.

Does that preclude some kind of adapted PO/R&R? Jrue actually fits well in a pick & Roll type system, Iguodala not as much.

A lot depends on if Iguodla is traded-0 and if they will try and bring in a shooter like Gordon, Mayo or Rudy.

Rudy Gay or Rudy Fernandez? Gay isn't a shooter, IMO and Fernandez isn't more than a bench guy.

Rudy F. He could start between Jrue and Iguodala. He would fit nicely.

Did his play in the playoffs sour you on him at all?

The 37% from the field and basically league average from three numbers worry me.

No, I see him as a 5th starter kind of guy. So fit is most important, but I expect he will be exposed if a team asks him to do too much (like create his own shot.)

I like the fact that a team can buy low, and not have to give up too much.

I'm just not sure what exactly you're buying, no matter what the price is.

A decent athlete who can hit an open pass and make a reasonable pass. A cheap, major upgrade at SG over WG or Lou.

Should read hit an open shot and make a decent pass.

A poor mans JR Smith with less (but not absent) baggage. Use Rudy wisely and prosper.

Or an injury-prone, home-sick gunner who can't shoot a decent percentage.

Even so, he is an upgrade, I'm just not sure he's a legit starter. Still on his rookie contract, so worth the risk if the asking price is low.

I wouldn't be too worried about Rudy F. He struggled with some smaller injuries all year long, and the fact that he left a Europe (where he was basicaly a star) for 15 min of the bench have hurt him mentally a bit. He just needs a new opportunity as a starter IMO. He'd be a perfect fit between Jrue and Igoudala.

JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on May 7 at 12:14

Turner is the Adelman assistant right? He doesn't strike me as a strict system guy based on how things have worked in Sacto and Houston - he strikes me as a 'take the best parts of various systems that works with the roster i have' guy...if the isxers are pigeonholing guys as system guys WITHOUT talking to them that would suck

They talked to him last year, right? Maybe he had a similar sales pitch to Jordan's. "The read and react is PERFECT for this roster!"

Unfortunately they did not. It was the EJ dog & pony show.

Fair or not, it's troubling to me.

JohnEMagee on May 7 at 12:00

If i'm a coaching candidate I ask them what the realistic expectations they have are of this team, with or without Iguodala and if the expectations aren't realistic (anything beyond losing in the first round is unrealistic) i pass cause working for delusional people never ends well

My questions are something like this:

#1: What changes to you intend to implement right away to the team (offense/defense/accountability/Culture etc.)

#2: What would be you goals for this team in each of the 1st 3 years.

#3: Looking at the current roster, what stands in the way of this team developing into a good team and then a contender over the next 3+ years.

deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on May 7 at 12:04

But how do you sell a total dismantling to a coach? A longer contract?

The GM has to tone down expectations for next year... completely the opposite of what ES has done.

deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on May 7 at 12:14

I keep thinking the young assistants have no shot and a Brown or Collins gets hired because E.S. will just tinker with this roster and slightly upgrade. Does Scott not getting an interview say anything about how E.S. viewed who contributed more to those Nets teams? Scott or Jordan?

I think Scott not getting an interview says "No more of your fucking cronies, Ed."

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 7 at 12:17

Here Ed - we'll pay you - and call you the GM - but you don't have any real power without approval.

That's a fun job to have

JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:12

Realistic expectations not based on winning and losing, a promise to give him a chance to build the team together and not to fire a guy because he has a roster that is too young to win...and that as long as he can achieve reliastic goals, he gets to say one.

You do the opposite of Pat Riley :)

Off topic, but does the page hang on that Twitter widget for anyone else every time they load an entry?

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 7 at 12:19

Seems to be - but maybe it's cause i'm biased and hate twitter so it's out to get me

Widgets piss me off.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 7 at 12:35

Then why use em - it's your site right? You getting paid for it?

I took it down. Thought it might be useful, but they almost always slow down load times.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:22

What players do you guys think our coaching candidates pull for out of this draft? Turner would have to be intrigued by Monroe; Thibedeax by Whiteside or Aminu? Collins? Brown would probably trade the pick!!

JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:23

Don't really care who the coaches want - i still have faith in dileo (though speights and thad this year made the faith waver)

deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on May 7 at 12:26

If I am hired and have a vision of the team going forward, me and Tony would be on the phone a lot.

JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:34

So many holes on this roster you gotta take the best player available

deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on May 7 at 12:39

It just seems from 6 to 10 they all are close talent wise and than fit may come into play.

Good topic. I'd agree with your picks above.

Monty Williams will probably put what he's learned in Portland to use and want the guy with the most questionable injury history.

Collins would want Wes Johnson, I can almost guarantee with the way he's been gushing about three point shooting doing the Suns games. If he's off the board, I could see Aminu maybe.

Thibs may like Udoh.

I think most coaches would be intrigued by Cousins. He could be an impact player right away, and a star.

The type of guy that most coaches can't handle... but most coaches have the ego to think that they will be the one who gets the most out of him.

I'm so conflicted right now. Part of me really hopes they hire Collins because I think he opens the checkbook, possibly even opens it enough to get them to buy a pick. On the other hand, opening the checkbook for Stefanski probably means stupid short-sighted trades to get veterans in here. Effed if you do, effed if you don't. Ugh.

I think you are right about Collins and pocketbook. A big positive about Collins is he knows the players in the league and commands respect. If they bought a pick of Tony's, I would be fine with it. I personally think that the coach will have more power than Ed S next year (if he is still the GM).

I heard on WIP last week, idiot Eskin, that the 76ers will probably hire either Collins or another experienced head coach. He said they will not take a chance with someone w/out a track record. Not sure I agree but understand the thought process.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:31

My one issue with Udoh is physically he reminds me of your favorite p.f., L.Aldridge, and I see him getting pushed around a lot.

Aldridge is perfectly capable of playing down low. He just chooses not to. I wouldn't be unhappy if Udoh was the pick, but I'd hope they could maneuver something out of it, like dropping a few spots to pick up a later pick or something like that. If they wind up taking him at #6 over Aminu I'd probably trust DiLeo.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:37

I wonder if Okl. City and Memphis really want to use their late 1st rounders this year? Cash is all that is needed to buy one, correct?

In the past, that's been the case, yeah. The Knicks got Toney Douglas by buying the Lakers (I think) pick last season.

JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on May 7 at 13:01

WH wouldn't they use their late first rounders...they're young teams that can afford to take a risk on someone who might or might not pan out

deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on May 7 at 13:06

Okl. City can!t get D.J.White minutes and also owns the rights, I believe ,to the California center from a few years back.They may be inclined to combine 2 or 3 young guys or picks to get one valuable asset moving forward. Memphis has 3 1st rounders and may move one of those.

some guy reply to deepsixersuede on May 7 at 13:53

the pick you should be looking at is the hawks first rounder. theyre going to have to pay big for joe johnson (and maybe there coach) so they cant really afford to pay another first round pick. i think 3 mill for an early 20s pick could be huge (alabi or henry possible)

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 12:57

John, your comment " a lot of holes to fill" makes sense because of their record but if 3 things happen this summer maybe it isn!t so bad; 1] they draft W.Johnson 2] they pay cash and acquire 20 to 30 pick and get defensive big for bench [Alabi or Lawal] 3] they hire the right coach


The key to this working is Marreese becoming what Deleo hoped when picking him and if he does than the holes are covered for the most part. Can Johnson be as good as or better than Iggy?

JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on May 7 at 13:03

A. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts:)
B. I don't believe COmcast will spend money to buy a low first round pick (3 million) as I've made clear more than a few times I think cost cutting is more important than winning to them right now.
C. Coutning on Speights is a fools errand until he gives you reason to believe - you can't count on him to get better

They don't have a starting PF or Center if they're dumping sam plus they need someone between Jrue and Iguodala

Not to mention that their bench is currently full of guys who can score and do nothing else

deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on May 7 at 13:13

The bench can be fixed by bringing in the right vets to compliment the young guys. Role players that defend and do the little things, the anti-Primo!s of the league. Voskuhl, Dorsey types; they got it right 2 years ago with Donyell and Theo.

They will spend if they believe it is the difference between a contender than fills the arena versus a 45 win team. They consistently spent during the AI era.

I doubt they spend this summer. How could tey be convinced a few more million makes that much of a difference.

deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on May 7 at 13:22

Deleo would have to convince them on the upside of a certain guy, for example if Orton or Whiteside slips.

I don't think they pay based on upside. they will pay if it is the difference between winning or losing next year (and the additional gate revenue and buzz it generates.)

I guy like Orton or Alabi generates neither buzz or ticket sales.

sfw reply to tk76 on May 7 at 14:07

If they believe a Sammy replacement is available late first they may have to make a move.

2 years ago they refused to buy a late #1 to draft De'Andre Jordan. they waited and were unable to get a high #2 (non-guaranteed contract) to get him. I'm not sure why this summer would be any different.

Was Jordan even on their radar?

They had just drafted Speights and they were on the verge of spending $180M in contracts that summer. I'm not sure you can really call them cheap for not buying an extra pick in case Speights didn't work out in that draft.

Yes, they publicly said they tried to get a high #2 for Jordan, but were unable.

#1's were available for cash.

#1s also carry the guaranteed contract, and they were already in a position where they had to give away Carney, Booth and a pick to clear enough cap space to sign Brand.

Yes, that could have been part of it. At the time they did not even know Brand would opt out.

if you had picks 2 and 6 (and no iguodala), would you take favors/johnson, turner/johnson, or some other combination (aminu, whiteside, etc.)?

If you traded Iguodala, you can't pass on Turner. Actually, no matter what you can't pass on Turner at #2. So ideally, I think it'd be Turner #2 and Johnson at #6. But the logic probably stays the same at #6 no matter what.

Favors/Cousins/Johnson/Aminu, in that order, for me.

Jrue-Turner and whomever is available at #6 sounds like a nice foundation. reminds me a bit of Westbrook-Durant-Green.

Of course no one knows how the players will pan out, but at least its a good start.

All we've talked about with Johnson/Iguodala being good fits together, Turner/Johnson would be even better.

deepsixersuede reply to Derek Bodner on May 7 at 16:35

If Iggy and #6 got you Turner, would ya?

No, I don't think I would. With the #6 pick you have the opportunity to fill a hole. If you trade Iguodala and #6 for Turner, it's a zero sum game. You're filling a hole that already existed and not addressing any of the needs that exist right now. You'd have Turner at a lower price, but you're going to be taking salary back to move Iguodala. I'd rather have Iguodala + Wes Johnson/Aminu than Turner alone.

deepsixersuede on May 7 at 15:30

N.B.A. t.v. has the euroleagues on today, a doubleheader, and Rubio looks very quick and has a nose for the ball. I can see the Nash and Pistol Pete comparison!s, minus the outside jumper.

I've been sort of keeping an eye on the tweets from DraftExpress. One game was like 21-29 at the half.

johnrosz on May 7 at 15:54

What team with a chance at the top 3 would even want Iguodala? I'm not sure his value is worthy of the 3rd pick.Maybe I could see Golden State being interested, but still doubt it. Iguodala and 6 for Ellis and 3? (Magee is going to berate me I know, Sixers are getting 50 cents on the dollar for Iggy, but they fill a need and move up 3 spots)

Ellis doesn't fill any need, unless you need a guy to take way too many shots and not score enough points with them.

johnrosz reply to Brian on May 7 at 16:22

Yeah,the definition of a gunner for sure. That deal might be lopsided, but I think the only way to get into the top 3 would be to trade the 6th pick AND sell below fair value on Iggy. I'm not advocating such a deal, I just think that's the reality of the situation

JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on May 8 at 13:03

Ellis is not 50 cents on the dollar for Iguodala, he's like a nickle on the dollar

Ellis is god awful, he hurts his team in almost every possible way on the court...The warriors would jump at the chance to trade him for a player who doesn't, you know, SUCK

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